I Really Hate Encountering Unexpected Situations I Don’t Understand
I am very comfortable working with electrical systems. And I thought I’d be fine with some “easy” outlet and switch replacements.
I didn’t know what the situation would be until I peeked at the wiring, and I really didn’t anticipate what I’d find. That’s why I wired replacement outlets as in exactly the same manner as the existing devices.
Advertisement
No, I didn’t think it was proper to wire 5 conductors to an outlet, but I didn’t want to start doing things differently without fully understanding why it was done that way. It took me perhaps too much thinking and sketching things out to understand what all those wires did.
Try to change too much at once, and mistakes are more likely, or at least harder to track. I was trying to be cautious.
It’s really a lack of experience. Experience in dealing with different scenarios, situations, and outcomes, that’s the only thing that could have helped. No amount of planning can substitute.
To put it simply, I didn’t expect there to be some many unknowns to investigate, and it unsettles me that some of those unknowns remain unresolved despite my best efforts to sort them out.
I know what current codes say about conductors in boxes, and how switches should be wired, but that doesn’t sufficiently prepare for dealing with decades-olds wiring decisions.
Advertisement
I Assumed Things Would Be Nicer, Neater, and Correct
The electricians that worked on our recent renovations did excellent work, and they didn’t give me much to complain about.
But whoever worked on the house before we bought it… they sure left a mess.
I expected existing wiring to be different, and closer to modern wiring standards. I guess that’s my lack of experience talking.
Some Towns and Cities WILL Give Permits to Homeowners and Inspect Their Work
I remember reading that only licensed electricians can get permits for electrical work. But after someone left a comment advising of otherwise, I looked into it, and found that my city will issue permits. When I called to check, I think they said the cost would be $50-70.
You might not want or need a permit when changing one device, but it seemed like it would be a good idea for certain things. If I move or add any outlets in the future, I’ll likely do this, to get a second set of eyes on my work. But, that will likely be after an electrician checks and corrects the current device wiring.
I am Stubborn About Hiring Others to Do Work I Feel I Could (in Theory) Do Myself
It has taken me over a YEAR to get to the outlet behind the TV. I had the power strip plugged into a nearby wall outlet, because I didn’t want it plugged into the outlet reporting a reversed hot and neutral fault.
In August of 2016, I asked about tamper-resistant outlets, saying:
I’m about to embark on an outlet-replacement spree.
Why the delays? First, our breaker panel hasn’t been mapped out yet. The last I checked, a lot of the labels were wrong. It’s quiet at night, but I didn’t want to risk resetting my wife’s alarm clock, or something like that. Second, I can’t do any kind of electrical work if my kids are around. They like to watch me work, and sometimes want to “work just like Daddy.”
And really, there’s just always so much to do.
I probably should have called the electrician a lot sooner. Maybe I got the impression they weren’t interested in the job?
Despite my initial uncertainties, I am confident that I can replace each and every receptacle and switch, and maybe some light fixtures that we’ve been meaning to replace. And I’m sure I can do it right. Eventually.
And after the advice I was given about permits and inspections for homeowners, I’d get the work inspected just to be sure.
But how long would that take?
I mentioned in the other post how many other misc. issues I know of and have been meaning to fix or have an electrician fix. What happens the next time I hit a surprise? Research, questions, more research, and probably a lot more time. Not to mention anxiety.
I spoke to my contractor today, wanting his opinion about getting a permit to do all the outlets and switches myself. He knows me well, and I trust his judgement. Some of the outlets need to be replaced to correct problems, or due to wear, and some of the switches for cosmetic reasons and others for functionality.
He reminded me that electricians will be better equipped to handle the surprises that would surely drive me batty. I’ll come up against something I wasn’t prepared for (such as painted wires or an over-capacity box), and it’ll hit me like a roadblock. An experienced electrician, on the other hand, will look at something and just know what needs to be done.
I like doing things myself. And I like to think of myself as cautious and competent.
But I also have too many things on my plate. This has been on my to-do list for over a YEAR. There is no shortage of other things that also need my attention.
There are too many home, personal, and ToolGuyd-related projects that I haven’t gotten to yet. That’s a discussion I have avoided posting about. The short story? My daughter is not yet in nursery school. My wife had to take a day off so I could work on some things, with the outlets and light switch at the top of my list.
Why am I being so stubborn? Do I fear that it’s as if I’m saying I can’t do the work myself? Am I worried about disappointing all of you somehow?
As I make this decision, I try to remind myself that I wouldn’t just be hiring the electrician to do work I could do in theory, I’d be paying for their expertise, experience and knowledge.
Once everything is checked, corrected, and replaced, I’ll feel a lot more confident if the need to replace an outlet or light switch arises. It’s just looking like it will be too time-consuming and stressful to check every device and box myself, and to correct, check, and replace everything myself. I’d question everything that doesn’t look “standard.”
What other decades-old mistakes or shortcuts will turn up?
I think that calling in a pro is the right decision. I don’t want replacement of the other outlets and switches to take another year, or any more nights trying to figure out how to correct things. I’m not so worried about causing new problems, but what if there’s a big problem that I somehow miss?
You Guys ROCK!
Okay, so I already knew this one. =)
Google is my first stop when I want to learn about something, and you guys only come second because I like to be a little better informed before I ask others for help or advise.
You guys ROCK. Thank you – everyone – for the great advice in your comments and emails!!
I am always learning, and am grateful for your honesty, insight, and willingness to help. I am especially appreciative that nobody made me feel bad for asking questions.
Joel
On the list for ONLY a year? Not bad…
PatrickD
As far as I’m aware, you can do your own electrical work (as well as just about everything else other than septic here) and pull permits in just about any municipality for your own residence.
The work of replacing switches/outlets/etc. is very easy and something most DIYers should get comfortable tackling. There’s only a few wires and it is pretty easy to learn. With receptacles, always buy backwire receptacles and your job will be a lot easier.
Normally, replacement of switches/receptacles/etc. in an “in-kind” manner not only doesn’t require a permit, but the inspectors probably don’t want you to do it as it takes a lot of their time for something so simple. You pretty much don’t have many ways to screw up – black to brass (or you’ll fry your a**), white to silver, bare/green to green. Make sure stuff is tightened properly. I use a Wiha torque screwdriver when I have a lot of receptacles/breakers to do, just to make sure everything is torqued to spec.
One of the most common ways for a DIYer to mess up is with wire nuts. Personally, with UL-listed options like the Wega lever nuts, I’d go that route. That is really only if you have to open a wire nut, since you will be replacing existing devices as-is, you probably won’t run into a big issue.
Eric
Back wire receptacles as in back stab or the ones that have a hole for you to insert the wire and then you would tighten the connection ? If they are back stabbed please don’t use this method , I can’t tell you how many times I have changed a worn out back stabbed connection . As far as the permits go yes some places allow home owners to pull permits but what was not mentioned is that when you do so you must pass an electrical inspection and abide by your current code just like a licensed electrician would have too , also I would check with your home owners insurance about this type of work being done if it would be covered in the event of a fire .
PatrickD
Eric, back wire receptacles use a screw with a flat brass tab to capture the wire. They are different than back stabbed receptacles.
Insurance covers your legitimate mistakes… just because you DIY something doesn’t mean in the RARE event it causes major damage that you will not be covered, unless you were purposely negligent or something. This is a common thing people say on these forums – do it yourself and your insurance won’t cover it. Not true.
Satch
Patrick, I understood exactly what you are saying. Backwired devises are a godsend. The ability to connect stranded, solid, or even a combination of the two kinds the same terminal is beyond handy.
Normally I pigtail EVERYTHING and attach one wire to each terminal which is correct for screw terminals. Sometimes you just cannot make the pigtail or whatever and the wires are too short to make a proper loop. The back wired devises allow you to slip the wires under the plates, lock them down, and done. It has saved the day for me more than once.
I refuse to make a backstab connection. If wires are too short I twist them up and and a pigtail. And for those who don’t want to mess with cutting their own, Ideal has these way cool pre-made pigtails with a wire nut permanently terminated on one end and a fork terminal of the other. It is also made of stranded wire so it is supremely flexible and makes tucking the conductors into typically cramped residential boxes much easier.
Stuart
It could be I read wrong information, or misunderstood what I read about permits, but I now know better.
If moving an outlet up for when a TV will be wall-mounted, or similar, getting a permit seems easy and can’t hurt, at least for the first time I do it.
That’s the thing, though. I expected for the installation to be “in-kind,” but it’s not. One of the first outlets I worked on looks to have too many wires in the box to pass current code, and would require correction to bring it to current standards.
And as mentioned, one of the outlets I worked on had reversed hot and neutral that I corrected. That one I was prepared for.
As for wire nuts, there are too few. For the outlets where I tried to do in-kind replacements, there weren’t wire nuts; the conductors were ALL tied to the outlets.
There’s an outlet outside that has some weird 60V signal when it’s supposed to be switched off. If it’s tied to the living room branch (the outside outlet is just outside the living room), maybe it’s because of that reversed wiring, or it’s also reversed, I haven’t taken a tester to it yet, just a multimeter.
In other words, I was prepared, and consider myself comfortable, with in-kind replacements or easy fixes, but am not quite prepared for box upgrades and other such corrections.
Ben
I had that happen in a prior home. Had something bridging a couple circuits, so I ended up with 50-60V on a neutral wire in a ceiling fan box.
OnTheWeb
Yes, and it can get tricky when people pull power runs off the branches of 3-way runs and weird stuff happens like a downstairs plug only works when the upstairs light is on. 🙂
Non-contact testers are your only friend when it comes to wiring. Be safe.
j
I second that. I have a pair of side cutters with a nice 14 ga slot because of that situation.
Alick
A non contact tester isn’t a reliable tool to prove a circuit is dead and safe to work on. You need a contact tester rated for any voltage that might be present. Prove it on a known live source first, use it to check that the circuit is off, then prove it again on the source so that you know that it’s still working OK.
Oh, and remember to check all the combinations between line, neutral and ground in case something is incorrectly wired.
Scott K
I have been replacing every receptacle as I paint rooms (they were either two-prong or painted over). I ran into a few that made me call my electrician to discuss.
I have a question for you/others:
I have a metal outlet box on an exterior cinder block wall. It seems to be hanging loosely, as in it may not have been mounted properly, or was added at some later point. Is there a way to secure this without having to open up a freshly painted wall? Is it safe to use a receptacle that is not securely braced?
Chris
I’m assuming this box is on the inside of the house, since you mention painted walls. Is the box installed in a drywall wall? If so there should be wood studs between the sheetrock and the concrete block, and the outlet should be resting up against one (either horizontal or vertical). Turn off the power, test the power is off, take off the outlet cover, remove the outlet so you can get at the rear and side walls of the box. Find where the box is nearest a stud, If it’s touching the stud, just drill in at an angle through the box and into the stud. (If there’s empty space between the outlet and the stud, put a shim between them so when you tighten it up you’re shimmed against something and don’t move the outlet box away from the hole in the drywall.) Put a 3-4″ screw into the stud tightening the outlet against the stud (make sure the screw is driven all the way in) Then just reassemble everything.
Scott K
Yes, inside of an exterior wall. I appreciate the detailed suggestion!
alex
You can also use a remodel box (old-work box). These don’t need to be fixed to a stud.
Scott K
Thanks- I’d have to check the placement of the wings as the edges of the opening are a bit ragged.
Shane R
OWC -100 is your friend
Old Work Clips
Chris Fyfe
never assume , test and verify , if it looks bad , it is bad .
Jonathan
I rarely will use back wiring you run the risk of it arcing if it works its way loose thru heat or froom regular plug/unplugging (i.e. vaccums, etc). The side terminal and loopong the wire CC will insure a solid surface connectionas the screw bites and tightens the loop against the terminal.
I also run a loop of quality Electrical tape (3M) around the screws, so a stray ground or the side of a metal J-box can’t arc.
NEC code adoption varies by state with some 2008, 2011, 2014 and some are based on local adoption.
Also what a homeowner can do varies by state and intent (i.e. temp HO intending to flip within a year and disclosuresid your flipped the house).
In my state I can do safety replacement of anything in my house, based on state regulations. (I replaced my electrical panel, but I made sure it was to code, since my family sleeps in this house.
I have done some guerilla outlet installs (no permit), but I used ROMEX that I bought at a garage sale that pre-dates when we purchased our house, but again I did it to code, an have updated most outlets and breakers to code where required, GFCI near sinks/water, AFCI breakers in the panel (our house is almost 60 years old).
About the only DIY jobs I will not do, HVAC & sheetmetal, and carpet.
I think that Home Depot still sells a NEC code book homeowners with most of the basics and code it about .75″ thick and has good diagrams for a variety of things lime 3 way switches, switched outlets, voltage drop calculations, etc.
PatrickD
Jonathan, I think you are confusing back wiring with back stabbing. Back wiring receptacles are the most reliable, especially for a DIYer. Basically they capture the wire between TWO brass pads and require only a straight wire to do so. Twisting the wire and torquing it correctly under a screw is much harder for a DIYer than the back wire method.
A back wired outlet often looks like this (a high quality cooper):
https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/ODk0WDEzMDA=/z/9xYAAOxygPtS86Fz/$/1pcs-COOPER-5352W-20A-125V-Industrial-Grade-Duplex-Back-_1.jpg
You insert the wires into the holes, and then use the screw terminal to tighten it.
A back stab receptacle you simply stuff them in and the spring tension keeps them in, in theory. I would also not recommend those.
Raoul
I have used these in the past and although I do find them better than the backstab, i still don’t care for them much. The reason is you end up with 12 or 14g wire sandwhiched under half the nut and imo it is very easy to wiggle loose because of the whacky clamping dynamics. I’ve also bent screws and stripped out the nuts just trying to get a solid connection that I couldn’t break loose with my hands. Also, I believe the back wire is available on a lot of gfci outlets. Personally, I prefer the side method. You bet a nice even tight connection that won’t come undone if done properly.
And Stuart, I would only place faith in a licensed master electrician to do hard jobs and have him inspect it. Otherwise research and learn it youself. I’ve seen some real shoddy work by pros who will take any shortcut the possibly can. Inspectors? Ha, I get the idea they couldn’t make it in the field so they became inspectors. I had the same theory as you once about getting an inspector to make sure it was done right. It was obvious the guy knew less than me and all I did was read a book and wire an entire 3800sq ft house.
I was so nervous about the inspection but also felt reassured that if I made any mistakes he would catch it. I ran a 60 slot panel , a sub to the 2nd floor, a sub to the garage, 100 cans, outlets everywhere, exterior, and main which the power co connected. The inspector spent mqybe 5 minutes looking at it , signed off and left. I felt no more reassured after.
ktash
I’ve appreciated these two posts and the replies. My story. I took a brief wiring class some decades ago for folks like carpenters, plumbers, etc. I was a diyer, but read all the book recommended and have felt comfortable replacing outlets, changing ceiling fixtures, GFCIs, etc. Then I bought an old house that various people had worked on. There was a light in the bedroom that didn’t work, so I opened it up and a bunch of wires sprang apart :0. Then various other electrical circuits didn’t work. So I hired a licensed electrician. It’s in the country so not a lot of choices and a friend knew him. He could not figure out how to put up a light, so. So I told him to just reconnect everything, close it up and wire the light switch to an outlet in the room. There are a few other things he couldn’t figure out, either. He was licensed, but not sure how good he was. In rural areas, if you are new, it’s not easy to find professionals for small jobs.
I can appreciate your post, because even if I’m not doing the work myself, I like to understand it before I call a pro. I have some other pending small electric jobs I am going to try to do myself, though. I’ll use the Black and Decker Complete Guide to Wiring as a foundation and put youtube on top of that. Youtube electrical work videos can be very iffy, so I like the book as a foundation for finding the good videos.
ktash
Oh, and the “ceiling light” that became a junction box. Too many wires in one box just like your previous post. That’s why there’s no light on the ceiling today. Also too many typos in my post 😉
Tom
I like to have a project and I like to do things myself. I also just like having something to think and learn about that isn’t family or work related. But my general rule is one project at a time and it can’t be something that inconveniences the family.
So I have been pecking away at finishing our basement for about a year. It’s out of the way, and doesn’t bother anyone. I work on it as time allows and sometimes nothing happens for a month. Sometimes I encounter an issue that I need to think about and research. Since it’s limited to the basement, it really doesn’t bother the wife or kids. I don’t know if the project is saving money or not, but it is more about the process for me.
After the basement, I am going to build some cabinets for the laundry room. But I will keep the project limited to the garage until installation day arrives.
I think that these two basic rules help me keep work/life balance in check.
John Blair
I won’t go into the make vs buy argument. I find myself doing to many “make” projects, since I have a broad range of experience and lots of tools. As a former electrician, I want to clue you into how homes end up in sorry states and why inspectors aren’t always the help you would want. This is my experience.
First: Outlets are incredibly easy (and boring). You are either daisy chaining them from one box to the next or pulling them to a central location and wire nutting them together. You can string together so many boxes on each circuit. Your city has some rule of thumb for this.
Second: Lighting and switched outlets are where things get less straight forward. It’s also where you end up with more conductors in each box. The more complex the lighting plan, the more complex the box.
Inspection 1: The city inspector comes out before the drywall goes up, he makes sure of simple things like right gauge of wire, right amount of wire left in a box, is it staples often enough, nail plates where needed, does the layout of boxes meet code / the plan, etc.
Drywall: After inspection they come, spray mud everywhere and use a roto zip to cut out around your boxes. Any labels get covered up, conductors all end up looking white. Worst case, the roto zip knicks your wires. You have to have 6 inches of wire in the box, knick it in the wrong spot and you have to cut the drywall open and run a new wire from a nearby outlet. This is sometimes why there are more conductors in an outlet.
Inspection 2: You’ve wired everything up, you get your inspection. The inspector walks around and checks the outlets with a tester, tests the lights, maybe opens a box or two for a spot check. But unless they feel bad juju, thats it.
Inspectors are a safety catch. I’ve never seen one inspect everything. Most inspectors I worked with had their own weird thing they looked for. I had one who cared only about ground rods, another who wanted staples every 6 feet and would literally measure. I never had one that actually inspected to make sure everything was right. I’ve seen outlets with 4 hots (2 in stabs, 2 in screws) in a single box pass inspection.
Then new home owners come and want a new outlet, or a ceiling fan and start running stuff according to their ability. That’s when you truly get some terrifying stuff. Yes, I really did find one outlet in my house was run with 24 gauge speaker wire that a homeowner had done.
Stuart
Thank you, that’s all very good to know!
Lauren
I’m closing in on two years into my plans to rewire. I wanted to pull the drywall from the outer walls so I can easily run new wires and then insulate, but I’ve only removed part of the damaged kitchen. I also went to install a ceiling fan, but found 14 wires (7 black and 7 white) entering the box, decided that was too many, tried to reconnect and managed to kill power to the next room over.
You’ve made me feel better that I haven’t gotten this done. I’ve refused to pay for demolition, but with all the comments and my lack of power to a kitchen and bathroom for two years, I think I’m ready to just pay someone to do the rewire/new panel job and I’ll get the drywall pulled eventually.
As far as books go, I really enjoyed Wiring a House: 5th Edition (For Pros By Pros) by Cauldwell. I feel pretty confident after reading that I could do most of the job (if I didn’t have work and a life).
Satch
Al, these comments remind me of myself before I took to the trade. My ‘favourite’ question is always from the guy who cannot re-wire the three way switch he pulled out to replace. ‘I connected all the blacks together and then the whites but the breaker keeps blowing. It didn’t do that before. Is the new switch bad?’
No matter how many times you tell him he’s dealing with a switched circuit and in his house that white wire may not be a neutral in that circuit, he will still do it and finally beg you to come figure it out. It is one of the reasons I hate residential work. Once NM cable is stapled down, that’s it. In my commercial/industrial world if we make a mistake we just pull a new wire in the raceway. But us pros make mistakes? Never!LOL
Jason Offret
Too bad you aren’t in Utah Stuart, I’d swing by no charge
Stuart
Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment!
Toolfreak
Replacing outlets, switches, stuff like that *is* usually pretty easy, as you mention, when it’s straightforward. I’ve replaced electrical stuff all over in various houses and most of what I know i learned on the fly or on the internet.
When it comes to the weird or harder stuff, and making changes when you aren’t sure what’s safe and what’s right and what’s up to code and what is wrong and what might be unsafe or downright dangerous – yeah, you are definitely better off calling a pro in, or at the very least, consulting with one about what you want to do, before you do it.
One suggestion might be to call in a pro, but with the understanding you’d like to see how they replace the switch/outlet in question and briefly explain why it’s done that way. This might also let you spot a friendly pro rather than a snob who doesn’t want anyone “looking over their shoulder” while they work. That’s usually a red flag to me and says this is probably not someone I want to hire.
As far as being stubborn about doing it yourself, that’s part of how it is when you have the tools but maybe your current knowledge and ability isn’t up to what you want to do, and you don’t have the time needed to learn what you’d need to do a job yourself. It can be tough to admit when a job is over your head/above your pay grade, but it helps if you can make it a learning experience, like I said above. I’ve learned quite a bit from watching pros at work, doing things I didn’t know how to do yet, and after I learned, well, then I knew how to do them from then on.
It may be a case where you can have a pro show you how to wire one or a few of the outlets/swiches you want to have done, then once you see how it’s done, you can tackle the rest yourself, and call them in again if you really need to.
Whatever you wind up doing, especially when it comes to electrical work, be safe!
Satch
Your point to are good but consider this about the stand-offish sparky who is uncomfortable with you looking over his shoulder. If I had a dollar for every time bloke asked me about some issue with his wiring and just needed some coaching to get it right I could buy a month’s groceries pretty easily.
It usually goes like this. X electrical circuit has some problem and he has no idea what is going on. You ask if it just started out of the blue or ongoing problem. He doesn’t know. You ask if he has tried to fix it himself. No, he says. He doesn’t like working on stuff like this because it is too complicated compared to just changing a receptacle.
Okay, you will take a look. It is obvious someone has already been in the junction boxes because stuff is disconnected, etc. You ask again if anyone has worked on it. Now is when cousin Timmy or uncle Fed’s names come up. Well, they just took a look at it and they didn’t know so zip called you. Ahem. So you ask again, have you moved any wires, changed anything, etc. You get the idea. By the time it is done Joe homeowner and his buddies have bollocksed it up but good. Then they watch you and figure if they just pick up a little they will be all good the next timme. Rinse and repeat. Except when they finally shock someone or destroy their wiring or worse, their memories get bad and ‘the only thing I can think of is that electrician who was out here four or five years ago must have done something.’ Don’t doubt this scenario.
Toolfreak
I know it’s fairly common for pros to encounter shoddy work done by wanna-be amateurs, and I also don’t like having to fix stuff that other people (who didn’t know what they were doing) messed with before, but that’s also what keeps some people, especially the pros, in business. If there weren’t ever any electrical problems to fix there’d be a lot less electricians, and you’d only need them to install wiring in new buildings.
Generally when someone doesn’t want me looking at the work they’re doing, that tells me they either don’t want me finding out they are figuring it out as they go and aren’t really as much of a “pro” as they pretend they are, or they know they do really poor work and just want to cobble it together as best they can and get paid, not caring about the consequences of doing a lousy job.
My life experience in this area just says it’s a huge red flag. I haven’t EVER encountered ANYone who had this kind of attitude towards things and then turned out to be good at their job or did great work.
It’s been exactly the opposite – these people always do a poor job that I wind up having to redo myself anyway, or find the actual pro I should have hired in the first place.
I’m dealing with this kind of thing right now, a “master carpenter” I got a referral for to do some kitchen cabinetry actually turned out to be a guy with a pickup truck and some table saws who things cutting wood makes him a carpenter. Now I’ve got a bigger mess on my hands than I want to deal with and it’s obvious I should have just waitied until I could do the job myself.
Satch
I get you. I don’t really care if someone inspects what I do, I just don’t want them getting the idea a few hours or minutes of follow along is enough to make them competent enough to do it right. They have no frame of reference as to what looks/is wrong. Let alone what right should look like.
Satch
Stupid auto correct. It needed to read; someone had already been in the junction boxes. Sorry.
Stuart
Fixed!
What was this part supposed to be?:
So you skin sgsin, up have you moved any wires…
“So you start asking again,” ??
There’s no way to allow editing, but I can fix things like this when it comes to my attention.
I tried emailing you to ask, but it bounced with an “address not found” error.
Satch
Stuart thanks. Sorry for the fumble fingers on the mobile devise.
I was trying to say you ask them again(and again and again) if anyone has touched anything. The story always changes or gets bigger, etc. Worse case scenario and all that.
Many of us in the trade are simply too spooked to offer people any sort of advise.
Thanks again for a great site.
Stuart
No worries, I just wanted to be sure.
Unfortunately, I know how bad mobile auto-correct “corrections” can be, and it’s easy to miss them when typing long comments.
ToolOfTheTrade
There’s no shame in calling in a professional if you don’t know how to do something. Even if you think you have an idea of what you’re doing. Which you obviously didn’t because you wouldn’t be second guessing things or have written this post. Residential electrical work isn’t rocket science if you’ve roughed in a house or two or have had some hands-on experience with retrofitting. Also, you don’t need to get a permit for minor electrical repairs or if you want to move outlets around or if you want to add can lights in your bedroom etc. That’s why you call an electrician, not an inspector. An inspector will likely tell you to remove the drywall in your house so they can see the wiring. Damn That. And most electricians aren’t gonna call for an inspection for retrofit residential electrical work. Permits and inspections can cause more harm than good in some cases. Just make sure that the electrician is licensed and insured. It won’t be cheap. But it’s better to have someone who knows what they are doing working on it other than yourself. So swallow your pride and come to your senses and make a wise decision. Don’t let your stubbornness inhibit you from doing so.
OnTheWeb
I’ll take somebody competent over licensed and insured any day.
Matt
Troubleshooting is what separates the boys from the men and the men from the lumberjacks.
Double fed circuits
Switched Neutrals
Broken Neutral
3708918 ways of wiring 3-way and 4-way switches
Overstuffed boxes
Wires that are too short
NMD older than NMD7 – ie 60C rated
Broken Boxes
Daisy Chained Plugs (Stuart’s problem)
Renos on Renos on Renos without any consideration for loads/code/*face palm*
15A plugs on a dock with a 30A 240V lift…. only 1 3 wire run down to dock… That was an awkward conversation.
A basic house is pretty straightforward, however, the new AFCI rules make it very easy to end up with overloaded switch boxes because you’re no longer running through plugs – especially if you start doing 3 and 4-way switches. They’re also very piggy in the panel. The entire racket is such a cash grab.
I don’t mind a peek over my shoulder or even someone looking at my work, but if I’m troubleshooting something and trying to figure out WTF the last idiot was doing, then please, please give me some space. Asking what’s wrong, what’s wrong??? Isn’t going to fix it. Also, a pigtail socket, with an incandescent lamp, is an invaluable troubleshooting tool.
OnTheWeb
Yes, switched neutrals are awesome. 🙂
I would add:
Wrong size wires
Wires J-hooked together in attic with no twist, tape, or nut (really)
Single breakers powering 3 circuits
Missing ground wire
Panels where wires are so short you can’t move anything around
Panels where all heavy appliances are on same phase
Panels where the punch knockouts won’t come out 🙁
Panels with wires fed without strain reliefs
…
Kevin
Even ‘pros’ will take short cuts sometimes. I was helping with some renovations and changed a bathroom receptacle to a GFCI. The old receptacle had the tab broken between the two hot wires. This receptacle was controlled by two different circuit breakers. I never looked into what was wrong. The owners replaced most devices themselves and then brought in an electrician friend to complete the job. It was all aluminum wiring and the insurance company required the work. The irony is that it was probably safer before the owner touched anything. I think the electrician just broke the tab off to make it work. I capped off one of the hots so only one hot connected to the GFCI.
Matt
Sounds like someone wanted to be able to run 2 blow driers or 2 heavy loads simultaneously without tripping a breaker. Kitchens in Canada had split circuit plugs for decades. Only recently, with the mandate of GFCI around the sink has that changed, but you can still do a split elsewhere.
Stuart
When we moved into a new house as a kid, if I turned on my bedroom light while the living room light was on, it tripped a breaker. I don’t remember if it happened right away or soon after we moved in, but my parents had it fixed right away.
A few years ago, they had a new dedicated line put in behind the couch for an in-wall air conditioner, and the hack left a loop of shielded cable outside the floor and wall. They had work done at a later time, and another electrician fixed it properly.
Matt
Double fed across 2 phases. Much more obvious than when on the same phase.
Koko The Talking Ape
I have had a replacement toilet paper holder sitting on my floor for TWO YEARS.
Nice work, Stuart (the essay and the thinking behind it, not so much the electrical work.) I am on board all the way.