A reader wrote in, asking about Amazon’s pros-only disclaimer that he came across when trying to buy 3M hearing protection earmuffs.
John wrote:
Advertisement
I would love for you to discuss this oddity (or nonsense). To preface, I do welding and woodworking for commercial clients, mainly restaurants. While reviewing my past purchases specific to masks and hearing protection in my Amazon order history, I looked at these 3M ear muffs I bought years back and noticed the disclaimer “This product is intended for professional/commercial use. When you check out, you will be asked to verify that you are a professional/commercial user. Please review the legal disclaimer for this product.”
Last time I checked, hearing protection is available to everyone regardless of home use or work use. Why is there a disclaimer? Millions of people at home should use them to mow grass, run chainsaws, weedeaters, home wood shops, etc. I wonder if this is recent because of 3M PPE mayhem. Ironically it is listed under Tools and Home Improvement. Home Improvement is usually performed by the non professional.
Here’s the listing in question.
At checkout, you must check a box that says:
I am a professional/commercial user and I have read the safety information.
Actually, this isn’t something new. I wrote about Amazon’s pros-only and industrial use disclaimer 7 years ago when I came across a listing for a 3M sander.
Advertisement
My guess is that certain tools have the potential to be misused, or improperly fitted or selected in the case of personal protective gear, and that in agreeing to the disclaimer users are relaxing the risk of litigation for Amazon and 3M should personal injury or property damage occur.
In other words, it seems to be more of a “sure you can buy it, but you’d better know how to use it and if not you’re on your own if something goes wrong” type of policy.
I have only ever seen this on 3M products, or if I saw it for other brands’ tools I quickly forgot about it.
Here’s Amazon’s description of the policy:
Intended for Professional/Commercial Use
An industrial, commercial or professional user is a person purchasing for use as part of a company, business, or self-proprietorship that manufactures products or sells services to others and who has formal training, on-the-job experience or professional certification in the performance of job duties.
Professional/commercial products generally include legal disclaimers and material safety data sheets from the manufacturer on the Amazon site and/or in the product packaging. In some cases, you may be asked to verify that you’re a professional user and have read the documentation from the manufacturer on the Amazon site before purchase.
It is also possible that the disclaimer is less for legal reasons and more as part of their distribution agreement, perhaps loosely related to how “add to your cart to see the price” circumvents MAP policies. 3M has very many divisions. Maybe the disclaimer is necessary for Amazon – a largely consumer-focused retailer – to be able to buy products from some of those 3M divisions that typically only supply industrial suppliers and other such distributors.
I would have assumed that this has nothing to do with the earmuffs being PPE, but other models of earmuffs now carry similar disclaimer requirements:
3M’s Pro-Grade earmuffs (reviewed here) and 3M Peltor H10A earmuffs don’t have the same dislcaimer, neither do 3M X2A or 3M X4A earmuffs, or 3M reusable earplugs.
Other online retailers don’t seem to require disclaimers before you buy 3M products, but most consumer-focused retailers don’t have a wide selection of 3M hearing protection. Those that do are more focused on industrial, commercial, and pro customers.
Can you think of any other plausible theories or explanations? Unfortunately, we don’t know anyone in Amazon’s tools, industrial, or home improvement departments to ask for official comment.
It is strange indeed, but at least all you have to do is click a box that says you’re a commercial or professional user.
I added a Wera half-moon-style mini bit-holding screwdriver to my Amazon cart a while ago, and I tried to buy it when they had a price-drop earlier in the year. I couldn’t, because it has a whole different set of requirements:
Available with an Amazon Business account and healthcare license.
You can buy a 3M stethoscope no problem, and with a rainbow of color options, but a screwdriver bit holder requires a healthcare license?
David
Not talking about their recent history with their latest media storm BUT….
For those that don’t know, 3M does a good job of supporting their ear pro after sale. I had always used Peltor products previously and I bought a 3M unit. I was looking for replacement hygiene kits for my 3M radio/hearing protection with no luck. I called and they told me I couldn’t buy them but they will provide replacement hygiene kits free of charge. They arrived in the mail in two or three days. I was impressed.
A W
If you purchase a respirator that doesn’t give a good seal, they will ship you a different size as well.
Mohamed
Where can one buys directly online from 3M?
I don’t see but only “distributor’s list” on their websites.
Stuart
You can’t; as far as I am aware, 3M only sells business to business, or business to wholesale.
Mr. Certainly
There’s an easy answer to this — don’t do business with Amazon. I know, that’s a hostile opinion and maybe I should find my Asbestos Suit before saying such inflammatory things…
But Amazon has shown time and time again that they have little to no interest in doing the right thing. This weird exclusionary practice is just another thing to add to their entire practice.
Am I guilty of giving them business? Yepper. But since they went to a 30-46-60 day shipping policy for essential items like clothes drying racks, but Amazon 2-day PRIME! shipping for…ahem…grownup toys (I literally kid you not)….I’ve done everything I can to give ANYONE else my business.
Oh, Amazon’s practice of “Hey, if you have extra sick days, you can donate them to other employees. Doesn’t matter we’re literally one the world’s richest companies and can afford extending COMPASSION to our employees during a literal plague.”
Then there’s the time I bought an electronics textbook direct from Amazon (at an increased price) to ensure I didn’t get a counterfeit copy, but they pulled it from 3rd party reseller stock that did contain counterfeits. And I had to argue with them, citing the author’s webpage showing evidence of common counterfeit errors. I’ll never buy another book from them again. Ever.
Flotsam
How would they know or not whether i was going to use this at work?
Its not like a certification is required before you can use the tool.
fred
I’ve seen this before with 3M products – and like you figured it was a CYA liability issue on the part of 3M being passed-through Amazon.
Meanwhile – you can buy lots of 22, 25 and 27cal. PATs on Amazon – with no such CYA disclaimer from Ramset, Remington, Hilti et. al. So if your hearing is impacted by misuse of a Peltior product while firing a Ramset pin – I guess 3M might get off the hook. But if you are an untrained idiot who buys a PAT on Amazon and uses it to hang drywall – firing a pin into the next room injuring someone – can you sue Ramset/Amazon for your stupidity?
Jim Felt
Amazon’s multiple high rise towers in downtown Seattle house an impressive number of people. Many are attorneys.
tojen1981
Been buying more and more stuff 3rd party on Amazon or going to eBay.
Amazon Prime used to be great. Not anymore. Been going downhill the last year or so. Now they are basically telling us to go pound sand on 2 day shipping. Used be able to get one day shipping options on 99% of the stuff fulfilled by them. Not anymore. Lucky to get it maybe 10% of the time now.
DPA
It’s prob just marketing BS, designed to make buyer think he is getting superior “professional” product. Like you see on some GM vehicles. Some HD products. Some trucks. Etc.
Stuart
Only on select 3M products??
Chris
Bought the Peltor X4A (First picture, Green).
Best ear muff/hearing protection I’ve ever bought. They are the most comfortable set I’ve had for working in my shop or on DIY projects. They also stack well with ear buds and don’t feel like they are pushing them further into my head. They also fit comfortably and don’t cause pressure/hot spots around your ears like some others i’ve used (both cheaper and more expensive).
Amazon had them on sale in November for ~$14 and I though it was a great deal. Bought two more sets when I saw them on a clearance rack at home depot for $8 each.
Well worth full price for me now that I’ve used them and wouldn’t hesitate to buy them at full price if I had to.
That being said, don’t buy them on amazon. F*@# Amazon and their sh!tty business practices.
MichaelHammer
Shhhh, Alexa is listening!
MarylandUSA
For 16 years, I mowed my lawn with a 135-pound walk-behind American-made mower called the Johnson Big Wheel. Designed like a Sarlo or a classic Yazoo, with 20-inch pneumatic tires, heavy steel deck, and belt drive.
A decal on the deck said, in large letters, FOR COMMERCIAL USE ONLY.
Funny thing: Most pros had never heard of the brand.
Toolfreak
It was a lot easier for 3M to control who bought certain products before the internet and the distribution of everything, everywhere. Industrial and commercial suppliers would be able to get higher grade/heavy duty versions of equipment that was unavailable to the consumer through common retailers, and they often would not sell to the public or do walk-in/counter sales or sell items in small quantities to keep average consumers away.
It may partly be an availability thing, if 3M only makes a certain quantity of a product targeted at a certain profession, they don’t want those pros to find their product unavailable. It may really just come down to marketing/exclusivity though. Some people like to feel like the stuff they use is better even if it’s really the same thing as the consumer version, just with a different color scheme and packaging.
3M definitely makes a LOT of money selling “pro” stuff at vastly inflated prices to people who don’t even need it and would be fine with the stuff found at regular retail.
Brian L Sutton
If I was a betting man I’d say this is a result of the lawsuit over the faulty earplug litigation against 3M for the miltary earplugs
Paul
I guess I’m fine with the proper use of this. For example right now ALL respirators on Amazon are listed as off limits to purchase except for government and health care.
The thing is that respirators are different from masks. Before wearing a respirator you need a medical screening to ensure that you have enough lung capacity to handle the additional load and routine annual medical screening for this. At least according to OSHA. And you need a fit test to ensure a good seal between your face and the respirator, and they come in different sizes and different manufacturers fit differently. It might require trying a couple different respirators to find one that fits well. Fire fighters for instance have the testing done but hospital workers don’t. Not only that but they’ve set ALL filters off limits. I can’t see how a chemical filter has anything to do with CoVID-19. Plus I can just see some kid freaking out if a nurse walks in wearing a full face respirator.
So sure I can understand why access to N95 masks is restricted, and it makes perfect sense if I had to click through some sort of “pro’s only” requirement. But they restricted these to people who either can’t or shouldn’t even be using them.
As with the last poster yes it’s a little ridiculous that you can buy chemical vapor respirators for painting and spraying chemicals at the big box stores yet you are supposed to have all that training and screening done but also as mentioned control over the market isn’t what it used to be.
Fireside
Your comments are good, except for the end. The Big Box Stores sell face mask respirators with the various cartridges, and N95 masks, because they are a consumer retail outlet.
Both of these products require annual fit testing if you are an employee that uses them at work. These same regulations don’t transfer to people using them outside of the workplace or to masks that don’t meet the N95 rating.
Paul
I sort of started with the P series and switched to N series. Statements about consumer vs. employee market are close but it’s manufacturer liability driven too. All the “Nxx” masks are just masks and basically uncontrolled. I’m not sure what standard the paint spray ones fall under but it’s probably similar. I’ve never had problems (until now) buying respirators and cartridges though even though it’s supposed to be controlled.
From a manufacturer’s point of view the Nxx standards are tested to perform but that’s on a generic test. There is no guarantee that they will do anything at all. In fact from experience, they don’t. It seems to cut down on the dust about as good as if I “cowboy up” (put a bright red handkerchief over my face). If it’s just drywall dust or saw dust, the N95’s are fine. The construction industry is still freaking out about the new silicosis standards with good reason.
With respirators that use say the Pxx series of standards, there is a performance guarantee. If I’m say working in a battery plant, I’m surrounded by lead dust EVERYWHERE. You simply can’t avoid it. It’s on the equipment, inside the equipment…everywhere. Everyone in there wears a respirator for a reason. This is way beyond drilling holes in concrete block. An N95 mask doesn’t cut it. And it doesn’t cut it in a lot of construction tasks either. That’s where water sprays and HEPA vacuums become a requirement with good reason. What I need is a respirator with a P100 cartridge that guarantees 100% of the lead dust is prevented from entering my lungs. Similarly if I’m going into an area with heavy amounts of sewer gas (H2S) above a certain limit (a few ppm) I can quickly lose consciousness and die. Painter’s masks just aren’t going to cut it. It needs to be a chemical filter (activated charcoal) up to a certain point and then SCBA after that. Again, been there done that. Employers can’t supply PPE that doesn’t have a performance guarantee for obvious reasons either. Part of that extra premium you are paying is for the pack of lawyers that 3M has to maintain in case they get sued over misuse of their respirators. With the N95 it says no guarantees though so all you get is a nasty letter and a dismissal if you try to sue 3M over performance.
But in order to ensure that, 3M has to make sure the respirator actually works. What if I was in a car accident and it broke my jaw bone and other face bones so that my face was no longer “typical”? Or I have a fairly narrow face while one of the guy’s on my crew has a wide face? That’s why respirators come in different sizes and even among brands there are different fits. And some people just plain can’t wear one because they can’t achieve a good seal. Remember…3M is guaranteeing it works so you can buy a small/medium/large respirator but it has to actually work for you individually, not just on the 3rd party testing lab dummy.
When you have a fit test done they hook the respirator up to a machine that measures how much leakage around the seal there is while you count to ten, grimace, touch your toes, etc., to make sure it stays sealed. The same type of test is used for SCBA respirators as for non-SCBA respirators but it guarantees that it meets the standards. That’s the preferred test. It is very accurate. If I leave one strap loose I will fail the test. Then again if I do the quick test you are supposed to do to check for a seal (cover the valve and blow), I will fail the test. If I was wearing the respirator for drywall dust, I wouldn’t really care. If I was going into some potentially deadly toxic area, you bet I care.
There is an another test for non-SCBA use also where they put a squirt of very bitter tasting liquid in a bag and put the bag over your head. You do the same face procedure and they watch to see if you gag on the taste. If you don’t, you pass. I’ve done both kinds of tests. Somehow I just feel better about the machine-based test.
From a practical point of view with a mask on (even N95) I can easily smell cigarette smoke. With a properly fit respirator you can blow the stuff in my face and I don’t smell anything. But with the N95 on I can work pretty much all day without an issue. After a few hours in a respirator though I’m worn out from breathing harder.
RKA
My best guess is something to do with the packaging of the product provided to amazon. I remember my 3M respirator purchased from the big box store came with pages and pages of the usual warnings and instructions that seem to accompany anything aimed at a consumer that has safety implications. Maybe the stock of certain items sent to amazon has different packaging that omits some of this?
Michael
Many years ago, we were using a 3M mask. I don’t remember the reason but we were having a hard time finding them locally. A call to 3M and a few transfers later, I got someone in support that gave me 4 or 5 different product numbers for the same mask depending on where it was sold. Ie paint store, lumber yard, Co-op, big box stores or other.
High & Mighty
What does a health care license have to do with a screwdriver? It must be a screwdriver specifically made for medical use. 3m makes a ton of products and certain grades of them are made for certain sectors of the market. Like the 3m tapes and adhesives consumers buy at home depot isn’t nearly as good as the 3m products that automobile manufacturers get. But those products are exclusive to those buyers. 3m does this with many of their products. Earmuffs don’t require directions for use. So for a product that’s meant to protect your hearing, it should be the absolute best professional grade regardless of who it’s for or where it’s bought. It could be that 3m is aware that the overwhelming majority of products sold on Amazon are of inferior quality and especially items similar to this (headlamps, flashlights, majority of small electronics and battery powered products). They may have wanted to give buyers some sort of clarification that they can expect a professional grade 3m product and not the same thing sold by 2,500 different sellers. Funny how there’s no patent infringement or similar violations regarding the items sold on Amazon and eBay. For example, how can the same exact flashlight be made by 332 different companies and sold by 2268 sellers? But anyhoo, checking a box isn’t nearly as bad as having to produce a health care license to buy a screwdriver. Did they ask for the license number and company name?
Paul
The government does not enforce patents. There is no FBI “patent investigations” department. Patent infringement is civil, not a crime. Nobody is going to jail. It is all about money. It is merely a license to sue. If I have a patent the only way to enforce it is by suing everyone that infringes. And the infringement is on the manufacturer. As a distributor Amazon is just a pass through. Where Amazon gets into trouble is with lack of screening of third party sellers. I don’t know how much it is costing them financially but I’m very surprised they haven’t gotten much more aggressive with clamping down on scammers. They should have much more control than Etsy or EBay, but they actually seem to have less.
Stuart
But it’s not a medical/surgical screwdriver, it’s ESD-safe and with a bit interface that’s common in industrial settings.
It’s an example of how Amazon’s algorithms and restrictions can sometimes seem arbitrary.
scott taylor
As someone in IP business, Amazon, by selling a product that infringes on the patent, can be sued. It is known as contributory infringement or inducement depending on the patent and the product. They will be the next target of the Patent Trolls, just wait.
Frogger
Several years ago Amazon was the best source to get some boxes of 3M Stikit sandpaper rolls (mainly woodworking purposes – it’s narrow rolls of sandpaper with a sticky back, mainly for use in a hand-sanding holder for finishing wood surfaces).
They asked the same question.
Of course, then they tried to get me to create a “Business Account” for all those great Amazon reason, I imagine.
So it is not just “Hearing Protection”…
lavardera
I believe that there is an active class action suit against 3M for ear protection right now.
Ed Ski
I think this has to do with SKU and locale. Some regional sales have restrictions, and now that some get out on Amazon sales, its more to cover their a**, not yours. E.G. a neighbor’s brother works in the Midwest as a AG-Farm supplier. He cannot sell outside his region. If he does, he’ll lose not only other contracts (word travels fast) but jeopardize his company reputation. Now, he can refer to other regionals. And vice versa. Companies still have bonuses for sales, orders and service contracts so why steal or penalize others. Plus some of the product contracts are absurb (but logical) in that you wouldn’t sell plow repair kits to Louisiana, or swampboat motor contracts to Montana Field and Game. But with the internet…
I suspect that Wera has some sku restrictions, but shame, those black-yellow drivers look “sellable” to most!