A few months, I posted a discussion about the best cordless power tool brand, and while it wasn’t the quickest post to work on, it was relatively easy. Cordless power tools are fairly easy to classify and generalize about.
But power tools, included corded tools, benchtop tools, and stationary equipment? That’s not so easy to generalize about.
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Adam wrote in, with questions about how brands stack up to one another in regard to woodworking and DIY tools:
I’m a newer woodworker/DIYer and I love your site. One thing I have been struggling with between your site and forums I am on, and woodworkers I follow, is which brands are “better” in terms of their target. For instance, a lot of the folks I follow use Rigid or Festool tools, suggesting somehow that those are the best.
My overall impression of brand quality based on what I’ve seen has been:
- Festool (by a large margin)
- Rigid
- Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee
- Bosch, Ryobi
- Porter Cable, Harbor Freight, Hitachi.
But maybe that isn’t correct based on your site and reviews? I realize that price isn’t a guarantee or quality and that people like different tools for different reasons and purposes, but when starting out it’s hard to know these things. My dad is a HUGE DeWalt fan but he doesn’t REALLY know power tools well, he just knows the name. I assume Festool is top of the line because those things are crazy expensive. Am I way off in the “hierarchy”?
Following is a polished version of the response I sent to Adam via email. (I’m really sorry to others whose emails I haven’t gotten to yet!)
I recently posted about best cordless power tool brands, but in terms of woodworking and DIYer tools, there’s somewhat of a difference, and more brands involved.
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I would describe Festool tools and their offerings as being “advanced.”
Their tools are good, and some are better, but others aren’t necessarily better quality than competitive market-leading offerings, although they can still be more advanced. That can be good, or bad. Do you want your tool to work out of the box, or do you want to have to read a manual, find the auxiliary manual online, and then head online again to find tips and tricks? Not all Festool tools require that, but some do.
(I should also mention that after the learning curve, some Festool tools do provide advantages in the form of better results or productivity.)
Festool also offers exceptionally good dust collection, but that often requires you to buy into the “system” for best results.
Bosch’s jig saws are exceptionally good. It doesn’t matter where they might fall in a generalization hierarchy, certain tools like Bosch’s jig saws will always stand out.
Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Makita have an edge when it comes to construction tools. They innovate regularly, and even constantly, with the current focus being on cordless construction tools. DIYers, woodworkers, and “sophisticated hobbyists” seem to be a secondary target audience – at best. That depends on whether you lump industrial and commercial users in with construction pros and tradesman in a single “professional users” category.
Hitachi and Ridgid seem to be pretty on-par with each other. They both get a little creative and extra-innovative with their products, because they can. They tend to compete differently, and seem to have greater freedoms because of it.
When it comes to DIYer tools, Ridgid in some cases has better offerings than other brands, even those generally considered as being “better”. They cater to users and product categories that a lot of the other brands simply ignore. Which of the other brands, except for maybe Ryobi, offers a benchtop sander?
Porter Cable doesn’t know what they’re doing anymore, but their woodworking-focused tools are very good, such as their routers, jigs, and tools of a similar nature. Their power tools are more Ryobi-level, aimed by the brand at “value-minded” pros, with retailers aiming them more at consumers and near-entry-level shoppers.
Harbor Freight sells a lot of entry-level stuff, but a lot of their tools are said to be decent – after you put some time into cleaning and truing them up.
You’ll see a lot of Ridgid tools used by woodworkers, because in some cases Ridgid’s the only retail store brand that offers them. Craftsman has fallen far, or I’d mention them in the same light.
To sum it up, in the most general sense:
Festool stands apart from the other brands. Sometimes they’re better and at a higher level, other times, they’re simply different.
Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita are the top brands, from an observational point of view. Dewalt and Milwaukee are kings of the construction market, with Makita and Bosch with lower market share. But in terms of tools, Bosch and Makita have competitive offerings that might be considered superior. I would, for example, value Bosch’s router, jig saws (at least the higher-end ones), and sanders to be better buys than their red, yellow, or teal equivalents.
Ridgid and Hitachi seem to be on even ground, but there are some Hitachi offerings that dip into lower-tier territory, and others that rise above this tier, competing with and even besting the “higher” tier brands. Their triple hammer impact drive comes to mind.
Then comes Porter Cable and Ryobi. Porter Cable has some very good woodworking offerings and accessories, and Ryobi has a few gems as well.
Harbor Freight has specialty equipment, sometimes the types of tools you simply can’t get without spending a lot more elsewhere.
There are other brands in the mix, such as Maffell (super high end), Grizzly (a mixed bag in terms of quality, but huge product selection), and a few other brands, such as Rikon.
It gets really, really messy to generalize, because talking about specific tools can upend things.
The more you look, the more you read, and the more you talk to people, the more trends you’ll see in tool and power tool preferences. Dewalt’s scroll saw, for example, is widely acclaimed, as are their benchtop planers.
As for the folks you follow, a lot of prominent woodworkers have picked up sponsors. It can be hard to determine why they’re using a particular tool. They might be using the tool that best fits their needs, but sometimes it might not reflect an educated purchasing decision.
Speaking about myself, I might use a tool in a project, but because I’m testing it out, and not necessarily because that’s the one I’d buy. For instance, I own a Festool track saw, but might make a cut with whatever circular saw I’m currently testing.
Follow-up
Adam responded with:
Your response was immensely helpful. I knew a lot of the woodworkers I followed had sponsorships from Rigid or Ryobi, and I knew Festool was out of the plan for just starting out. I wasn’t sure where everything else stood, but as far as what I need, an impact driver, miter saw, router, orbital sander and jig saw are really what I’m after now.
It looks like I have a huge set of options that will all being good for what I need at this point. I’ll probably go for spending the money on things that REALLY make a difference, such as a good jigsaw, router and impact driver, and save a bit on the orbital sanders (get some good paper for it). I have a DeWalt circular saw and 18v power drill.
It turns out we have 2 good woodworking stores here. They carry Bosch, Festool, Triton and Mirka. I think my big decision now for impact drivers is more going to be 12V or 18V, which will then determine my choice.
Regarding sanders, I’m a fan of Bosch. I bought a Ridgid years back because it had still-decent scratch patterns in Taunton magazine test, but mostly because I needed a sander and had a Home Depot gift card to spend. (I bought a Bosch 1/4 sheet finish sander at the same time.)
I wrote more about Bosch sanders, and there’s some good reader feedback here.
Good sandpaper (or other consumables) can make tools even better. But you also have to consider dust collection and sanding uniformity. Taunton has an annual Tool Guide, and while they reuse a lot of content in the magazine, you might find it helpful.
It’s hard getting started, but making lists helps. An impact driver can be a place where you can go a little cheaper to start. And, depending on the projects you’re working on, you might not even need one.
If you go the 12V-class route, there will soon be deals on Bosch and Makita drill and impact driver combo kits.
12V drills might be limiting for certain tasks, though. Even my 18V Bosch isn’t enough for certain heavier drilling tasks. Pre-drilling and drilling in steps can help, to an extent. But for minor house projects, a 12V-class drill should be good to start.
Mirka’s another good brand, specializing in higher-end sanders.
Triton is a good brand, but relatively new to the USA. The only people I’ve seen using them are those who got a ton of them for free.
You could, and probably should head to your woodworking stores on a less-busy day, and talk to the staff there about what you want to do and what you’re looking to buy. They might have some advice for you, too. Couldn’t hurt.
With 12V or 18V, while you’re buying tools, you’re also buying into a system. Right now, Milwaukee’s M12 platform is king, in terms of product selection and promotion frequency.
Last Note
This is a particularly difficult topic, or at least it’s difficult without talking about a dozen or two very specific power tool categories.
Things are messy because brands don’t “stay within the lines” as consistently as with cordless power tools or construction-focused power tools.
One other thing to keep in mind, regarding prominent woodworkers and DIYers, is that they’re often experienced and accomplished, with many projects under their belts. Some of their tools might be their first purchases, others might be upgrades. If you look at someone like the Wood Whisperer, for example, you’ll see how is preferences and choices have changed over the years. Sometimes it might result from which brand is currently sponsoring him, other times it’s simply about working in a changed environment.
When in doubt about a particular purchasing decision, it can only help to ask for help, whether here, a woodworking forum, social media, or everywhere. It can be helpful to pack as much information, insights, and opinions behind major purchasing decisions as possible.
But also remember, no purchasing decision is always final and forever. It’s only with use and experience that a woodworker, DIYer, hobbyist, professional, or any other type of user, learns their preferences and tastes. That’s something you will find when asking for insights and opinions – that some everyone has their own preferences, and those preferences might not apply to others.
If I was asked by a new woodworker or DIYer about which brand is “best” for them, and I could only answer with one brand, it would probably be [FILL IN THE BLANK].
(In all frankness, I think I’d say Ridgid.)
Aaron
I’d say DeWalt if we’re talking overall. They’re generally regarded as having the best corded miter saws along with Hitachi, the best table saws, an excellent scroll saw, and very good hand and cordless tools, although I don’t put their overall cordless lineup and innovation in the same category as Makita and Milwaukee.
NoRaymondNoDewalt
Maybe best “rough construction miter saw”, but for wood workers not in the Kapex price range the American made Makita miters are king.
Dewalt hasn’t honestly focused in “woodworkers” since Raymond and his RAS’s. Woodworkers are an afterthought for yellow and black, if thought at all.
Makita and Bosch generally produce the ‘best’ woodworking tools – routers, sanders, saws.. Unless you can afford Festool, then by all means buy them instead.
Ridgid and Dewalt just benefit from brand/color recognition and market saturation. I am impressed by and own Ridgid’s cordless trim router, although I admit the Makita is a superior tool – with a superior price tag.
I wouldn’t touch anything I needed flat, square, or true with a Ryobi.
Ridgid and Ryobi bench tools are almost as much if a joke as HF. Better off buying 30+ year old used Craftsman tools made when cast iron American construction was still a thing and change the bearings/belts as needed.
Milwaukee makes solid tools all around and you can’t go wrong with them. Although Bosch and Makita have them matched or beaten in several wood working specific categories. The Milwaukee 3 1/4 hp router us like (almost) nothing else.
I think this article also over looks the woodworking specific offerings of Powermatic and Delta…
Chad Brink
The first thing that came to mind reading your “Dewalt does not focus on woodworkers” comment are the dewalt planer and the scroll saw. Both are higher rated tools in woodworking. So, I’d say there are exceptions to every rule.
fred
Of course – us old codgers know that Dewalt started out purely focusing on woodworking (mostly at the lumberyard) when their only tool was the Radial Arm Saw. They made some of the best and biggest RASs. They became part of AMF and then were sold to B&D who sold off the RAS business and then turned Dewalt into their flagship line for portable power tools.
Boots
If you start talking best brand, the first question you have to ask is what’s more important, speed or accuracy. Cordless is about speed, and here we see an advantage for construction trades where time is money, and tool replacement is just part of the cost of doing business. If we are talking best brands, we are forced to recognize that generally a brand is only best in a specific function; Hilti for masonry drills, Mafell for saws, Mirka for sanding, Fein for Multi-Tools, Metabo for grinders, Stihl for lawn and garden, and Dewalt Milwaukee Makita Bosch for platform diversity in the cordless sphere. Chasing best tools in cordless becomes an expensive exercise in supporting multiple battery platforms. The quest for accuracy generally leads down the path of higher cost. Many “Best” tools have a heavy focus on safety in terms hepa vacuum compatibility, anti vibration technology, anti- kickback, etc. Also comfort, and ergonomics generally are high in importance as well. Many of these qualities are difficult to market, since they are not displayed in American’s favorite evaluation metrics of Torque, Amps, etc. Then we come to another issue: how much do you want to spend on quality for a cordless tool, with an inherent limited lifespan? Is it better to go budget here, and allocate more resources to a tool who’s cost can be amortized over decades? The DIY’er has to decide the balance that works for them. How important is it to be able to pass down tools to next of kin? How certain are you that your 20 matching brand cordless tools platform loyalty will be supported in 10 years? Is the act of working with your tools a matter of enjoyment or just a means to an end? Ever wonder why everyone online can’t agree on any best tool brands?
Perhaps we have tied too much of our own identity to a color, and too many dollars to said color to be impartial givers of advice. My conclusion; diversify using corded where speed is secondary, and don’t commit more dollars to cordless than you are willing to lose to obsolescence.
Paul K
From experience I can say…
For “best” an observation
Bosch’s random orbit sanders are fantastic. You really have to jam the dust collector bin on though. Everything else by them in corded tools, which I’ve only limited once or twice use experience with to be fair, has felt and performed fantastically.
If you’re not making daily use of a tool and want to save a few bucks, two cautionary stories.
Porter Cable makes a nice-seeming magnesium shoe corded circular saw. Plenty powerful, good form factor, great price. In practice I’m finding the shoe is really grippy, doesn’t glide well. Especially over very smooth surfaces like MDF…which is unfortunate because I cut a lot of MDF. Anyone have ideas on that?
Ryobi’s corded 6.1 amp jig saw looks like a nice featured good buy for occasional use, but isn’t. The shoe does not want to stay true in extended runs, especially so if you’re trying to do an angled cut.
Jeremiah
For your circ saw being “grippy” you might try getting some thin UHMW and making a shoe to cover the bottom of the base (or maybe the thin white plastic cutting board material). My first thought for attachment was drilling and tapping metal base then putting screws up through countersunk holes. May not be a great idea with magnesium though. Or some adhesive that could be removed later if needed. Anything bulky may knock off the alignment of plate to blade or be wobbly. Some sort of wax type product may help too,
JeffC_VT
Johnson paste wax- I use it on my table saws, circ saws, jig saw, track saws (and track) and all my planers and jointers. It takes only a few minutes to wipe a coat on and buff it, it stops rust and it makes everything slippery without transferring to your workpiece. Plus a $10 tin will last years even for a daily user. One of the best old-hand ‘secrets’ I ever learned about.
Koko The Talking Ape
I agree on the ROS. Bosch dust collection is superior, last I checked.
I would second the paste wax suggestion. There are also products specifically made for that purpose, like TopCote. They are probably more expensive, but they might be easier to apply. Maybe they even work better.
JMG
Good, better, best… In the end, the tool that does it’s job as intended, fits your budget, and pays for itself in some form, regardless of brand, is the best for you. Tools that once seemed the best, can suddenly seem to be less when you learn of a different method to process a project that once seemed fixed in stone using that tool that was previously the best.
It’s all part of the learning curve experienced as you progress as a crafts-person. If you advance to a point where nothing seems to work the way you want it too, then you might just find yourself making your own tool, and at that point the best tool available to you might not even have a “brand” name.
fred
Prior commenters all make good points. To just confuse things a bit, I’d say that with corded tools its easier to “cherry pick” as there is no battery platform to consider. That means that you can look at some of the other brands that do not necessarily produce as complete line of tools as the industry leaders (e.g. Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita.)
In this are there are companies like Fein, Hoffmann, Lamello, Mafell , Metabo, Mirka and Virutex – to list a few in alphabetical order.
As JMG says the “best” can well be a moving target – as innovation comes into play. My Festool Domino XL machine changed how I do much of my joinery. We had a Hoffmann lipping planer in the cabinet shop – but I bought a Lamello Cantex and now would never consider a Hoffmann.
Finally, as you say, if you add stationary, benchtop engine-driven, hydraulic and pneumatic tools – the list could be expanded mightily.
Michaelhammer
I’m with you. Without a battery platform to consider, I would never hem myself into a single brand. Wood working magazines are an excellent source of side by side comparisons, which is the best way assess tool performance.
Brian
There are also other House brands like Masterforce (Menards) and Kobalt (Lowes).
I always say that out of Makita/Milwaukee/Dewalt, you basically pick your favorite color and you will be satisfied. The only exception would be if there were some more specialized tools that you wanted/needed, but that doesnt really apply to the average home gamer that is looking for drills, drivers, oscillating tools, circ saws, recip saws, etc.
FishStick
The neat thing about woodworking and using corded tools is you have no expensive ties to a single brand. For a long time Delta used to make awesome table saws, planers, sanders (stationary), drill presses etc. So for someone new to the craft, Craigslist and other classifieds are a gold mine for that type of stuff. People restore them all the time and they still work. My table saw is an older Delta and still works quite well (built in the USA still!).
Cordless is the only place I’ll sacrifice performance in the case of “x brand has a better one of this” because then you have to buy into that platform. So cordless I tend to look at the whole system of what do they offer vs which brand has the best single tool. With corded you do your research and buy what works for that particular tool. I’ve got a mix of different brands of corded because of that exact reason. Pneumatic is the same route too. Get a good compressor and then do the research on which brad nailer etc is the best one. Although funny enough all of my pneumatic nail guns are Hitachi because they have some great deals on reconditioned tools (weekend use and it gets returned because it “didn’t work” and then gets reconditioned).
To add frustration to it because I’m not a great woodworker – some of the best ones only use vintage restored hand tools and produce amazing pieces.
But to really sum it up, I feel DIY and woodworking are two totally different creatures and the tools are really a different class.
fred
Stuart started this by focusing on corded portable power tools – rather than expanding it to stationary tools. But while we digress – I would not give up my 1970’s vintage Delta Sliding Table Unisaw, or Delta Jointer. My drill press is an even more ancient but restored Walker Turner radial arm model . I say that – but if someone came along and wanted to swap the table saw out for a new Minimax – I’d sure consider it (depending on how much impugned income I’d have to report).
In the woodworking machinery business today – there are lots of quality European saw offerings and I’d look at Felder and Hammer saws among others. Then there are companies like Oliver – to compare.
FishStick
It really was a quick digression but I feel as soon as you mention woodworking it changes the class. Well…I had no idea a sliding table existed for the Unisaw. I have an older model but with the better fence on it – I think the unifence. I may have to investigate this more as I really like the idea of the European models with the sliding tables on them. Oh, I wouldn’t pass either on a new saw (Powermatic or Minimax) but until that chance comes along I’m sticking to my CL finds 🙂 I find a lot of the newer generation has no idea what’s in grandpa’s garage and they sell it cheap not knowing some (most?) is better than what’s made today.
JMG
I have an old sliding attachment for a unisaw too. Bought it from an old woodworker who was retiring years ago, along with the saw. My brother currently has the saw, but had no interest in setting up the slider. It works well enough up to 36″ cross-cut (with modifications to stabilize it), but beyond that can be difficult to maintain a true track. For its time, it was one of the best entry level options available. I shifted away from the sliding attachment myself and purchased a vertical panel saw when I decided to upgrade. More efficient use of space.
fred
Right on. I bought a Festool track saw some years ago – and don’t use the sliding table much anymore for anything large. Over the years I heard of modifications for the table – and adopted some. Keeping sawdust out of the slide bearings was one thing I tackled.
Stuart
I tend to ignore stationary tools in discussions like this because it gets even messier. Someone just getting started will rarely buy a large table saw, jointer, planer, drum sander, or other such tool with their first tool purchases.
Purchasing decisions get even harder. I was looking at dust collectors recently, and there are lots of complaints about so many of the different systems. Nothing is perfect. The same goes for stationary tools – you’ll find that some people will love a tool, others not so much.
fred
I agree that many DIY folks and Homeowners first priority in power tools – will start with drills, drivers, circular saws etc.
But If they then decide that they want to get into woodworking in a serious way – a quality table saw will probably become the center of their shop. When I bought my Unisaw in the 1970’s – I think I paid over $1000 for it – with tax delivery and set-up – the sliding table and some blades – added another $1000 or so. My first new car (Oldsmobile) in that timeframe was $3000. So using the comparison with a $30,000 car today – the Unisaw setup was the equivalent of $20,000. Today a small footprint Hammer K3 would cost you about $3900 – I guess a bargain by comparison.
Jonathan Eisch
“Triton is a good brand, but relatively new to the USA. The only people I’ve seen using them are those who got a ton of them for free.”
Triton routers have been sold in the USA for at least 10 years. They are very popular, especially for table-mounting and plunge routing.
The only people I’ve seen using them are woodworkers who paid money for them and bought them specifically for their specific features (above the table bit changes with spindle and power lock-out, easily removable springs, rack and pinion plunging, a great edge guide, lots of power, etc.) Hop over to a popular router forum, and you’ll see what I mean.
Stuart
I believe you’re right about the routers. More retailers have picked up Triton tools, but the brand isn’t as popular as others that have been widely available for longer.
I’ve been offered Triton tools to review, but reader interest hasn’t been strong enough for it yet. I don’t think, in 9 years, a reader or emailer has ever asked about Triton tools.
Certain woodworkers or DIYers that you might watch on YouTube or see elsewhere, they didn’t all of a sudden decide to buy a whole wall of Triton tools overnight. Not that they’re compromised or anything like that. My point is that you can’t look at the tools someone is using and conclude that it resulted from a purchasing decision.
Some tools are popular and visible because they’re the best, such as Dewalt’s scroll saw. Other times, a tool might be visible for other reasons, giving the impression of popularity.
Jonathan Eisch
*shrug*
http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/
Patrick H
I’d be interested in hearing more about the routers.
Koko The Talking Ape
I’d want to hear about Triton routers. The forums seem pretty positive, but it is hard for users to compare two or three different routers.
fred
Like other tools – the same holds true for routers. First you need to match the tool to the type of work that you do and how often you do it. Obviously a router that is good for quick edge trimming jobs and laminate work – will not be your choice for hogging out dovetails/rabbets/slots or use in a router table. Relatively recently, mid-sized routers (and kits) in the 1-1/4HP range have become popular – a do-it-all handhelds. Stuart reported on the Dewalt and PC ones – some time ago. The Dewalt DWP611PK kit seems to be quite popular. Dewalt – having gotten into the business by buying out German manufacturer ELU – now seems to be supplanting Porter Cable – who once made some of the best routers.
Then there are specialist routers – mostly for cabinet shops – like those sold by Betterley:
http://www.betterleytools.com/
Then – what feels good in your hands – might not for someone else.
While you can glean some info from those woodworking magazine tests and sources like router forum – you need to put it into your own context of use.
BTW – seldom do these magazines do any long-term testing – or come back a year later and report how a tool hold up. Amazon reviews also a full of first impressions – possibly with little use to back them up.
Tom
For corded/air tools – I see no reason to limit yourself to a brand – there are many worth consideration, as have already been listed. Read some reviews, ask around, but also don’t stress over it – in most cases there are many good choices.
For cordless, it does make lots of sense to buy into a system. For a beginner that isn’t sure of what they’ll focus on, Ryobi probably offers the most selection at a lower price. M12 also seems a really good platform too if you don’t expect a lot of heavy needs. If heavier construction will be focus – Milwaukee, Dewalt, Makita, or Rigid 18/20v lines all seem capable, consistent, and broad, so I’d get a combo set of whatever is on sale.
Other tip to someone getting started – find some friends who also have some tools and share… you don’t need to own everything.
Joaquin Harless
Thanks for validating my mindset on Ryobi. I am new to the craft and don’t know that I’ll have a focus, let alone what it would be. The Ryobi brand is affordable and offers enough of a selection to make it a safe go to when I discover another tool “need”. In my mind, a well maintained tool in the hands of someone that takes the time to use it “right” is as good as any other tool. Of course, that opinion is built over the chasm of knowledge I lack in the craft. I’m sure I’ll change my time as soon as I get my hands on a “better” tool.
MT_Noob
If I was starting from scratch, and looking at Woodworking and DIY in that order. I’d go with Makita and their 18v line for a lot of my stuff. You could get the new cordless track saw that by all accounts holds up to the Festool at a significant savings. I regret ever getting anything from Porter cables cordless line when they suddenly went from 18v to 20 volts and left me stranded with a bunch of tools and batteries. Makita seems committed to bring more and more stuff to their line. I also feel like I made a mistake going with a festool track saw after seeing the AVE disassembly video. It’s a great tool, but not perfect. Of course I also agree that it is hard to beat some of the bosh tools (jig saw, routers etc). Picking up an old school Bosch jigsaw second hand was probably my best investment to date.
We certainly are lucky to have so many choices and options available to us. Even if it is overwhelming at times.
MT_Noob
To clarify, since my above post sounds like a fan boy posting.
When it comes to cordless tools – pick one platform and stick with it. I made the mistake of picking up what was on sale here or there and ended up a mish-mash of brands and battery types. Figure out what tools you want/need and make sure that they are covered in whatever brands platform you are going to go with.
For corded tools/air tools, (as mentioned above) there is no need to really buy into a particular brand. (Except for Festool and their dust extraction). Google, Amazon and Toolguyd can help you research those choices.
Alex
I would be careful with Ave teardown on this saw. First, he gets the axial force on the bushing backward. Then he doesn’t understand that there is a magnet on the rotor because they are using an hall sensor to monitor the motor rotation. C’mon it’s pretty basic stuff…
MT_Noob
Agreed, his tear down video is not the end all be all, nor is it perfect. But for me (and this is just my opinion as an end user and not an engineer) it made me rethink that perhaps the tool isn’t as mythical as some of the more devoted people portray it to be. It is clearly well made, but “does it justify the full sticker price” is a question worth asking. At least in my opinion. I wonder if some of the fondness for that tool is also a form of cognitive dissonance kicking in to justify the amount spent (perhaps for some people maybe not all).
You are right to caution not to take just one video at face value. As with all tool research, it pays to search multiple sources and multiple perspectives.
In the case of track saws, if I were buying a new one, I’d certainly look at all the options out there. There are lots of good choices now and it would be hard to go completely wrong with any of them.
firefly
I am curious what trouble have you had with your festool track saw beside the perceived less than premium build quality from Ave tear down? If there are please share. While Ave teardown is interesting and long as the product doesn’t give you any problem I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If you have any problem are they receptive to your feedback?
MT_Noob
There are a few things that annoy me. Here are a few, and indeed I know they could also be classified as “user error” or are a result of poor research on my part.
1 – Vacuum hose entanglement. Forget Quantum Entanglement, the hose which is part of the awesome dust-extraction system is “ribbed for your annoyance” and it catches all the time on my workbench. There are solutions to this problem. (A) buy an even more expensive hose that has a sleeve to minimize catching, (B) buy an expensive attachment to add to my vacuum so that an arm raises the cord over the bench height to reduce snagging. Perhaps this plagues other systems as well, but the fixed don’t cost nearly as much as far as I know.
2 – Miter cuts – tilting the saw for an angled cut results in it not being able to stand on the track without tipping over (at certain angles). Makita seems to have solved this in their saw by allowing a way to allow it to lock into the track. while this feature my not be for everyone, I find that I’d like to have it.
3 – (OK now I a m going to sound like an old man…) “Fiddly adjustments” I think that is sort of alluded to in the article under
MT_Noob
(continued) under “do you want to have to read a manual, find the auxiliary manual online, and then head online again to find tips and tricks”.
For example I don’t find the depth adjustment quick and easy. It seems like it should be, but it just doesn’t click for me. I’d rather have an old school wing nut that loosens and tightens and then I’d just manually adjust the depth on some sort of sliding scale.
I guess with lots of practice or some kind of in depth research, it might make more sense, but to me it is counter intuitive.
Finally, (and I might just have a bad unit, or dirty blade) when I went to use it the other day for a quick rip cut, it felt like it had a lot more vibration as it spun up to speed than it should. Again, I need to check it with another blade to see if somethign is really going on or if it is just me.
I find myself more likely to just grab my old PC circ saw and a straight edge to make a quick cut than to go through the exercise of fiddling around with my track saw and accessories. Again, that is probably just a matter of me needing to get through the learning curve.
firefly
Thanks MT_Noob. One of the thing that I love about toolguyd is I get to hear about real user experience like this.
fred
When I bought my Festool track saw there wasn’t much else to select. Now with more choices (even upward mobility if you consider Mafell) I might have looked elsewhere – maybe Makita
JeffC_VT
I have both a festool and makita track saw (corded only so far, but looking heavily at the makita 36v Black Friday deal.) I use the makita almost exclusively because I’m less anxious while using it. With the festool, I find myself worrying that I’m going to make a mistake and hurt it, or that it’s going to get damaged during transport, or dropped, or stolen… Not that the makita is any more resistant to any of those, but if I need to replace it, it’s muuuuuuch le$$. You and your level of comfort/familiarity with what you’re using is leaps and bounds more impactful to your end product than what the logo on the side says.
Also, the Ridgid cabinet saw is AWESOME for the money, regardless if you’re new to woodworking or not. Check out for second hand Jet tools as well.
Patrick H
I second your comments on the Ridgid cabinet saw. Have you modified yours at all?
fred
I’ve seen a few Ridgid table saws – one (sort of a contractor/hybrid style) with a cast iron table but I did not know that they made a cabinet saw. Learn something new everyday!
Diplomatic Immunity
I think he means the R4512 as Ridgid only lists 2 table saws on their site. BTW the R4512 used to have trunnion problems. Don’t know if that’s still the case.
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/table-saws
fred
@Diplomatic Immunity
Thanks
I would not call the R4512 a cabinet saw – it weighs in at a lot less – and where’s the cabinet?
BTW – Emerson Electric (owner and licensor of the Ridgid brand name) use to make lots of the Sears/Craftsman table saws. I don’t know who the OEM now is fro the R4512
Anthony R.
I think the biggest thing to consider is the line of work you’ll be doing with said power tools. In concrete nothing beats Bosch, Hilti and Metabo demo and chipping hammers. In metal work, the best brands are Metabo, Bosch and Makita. I have had good experiences with Rigid tools but I’ve also heard a lot of horror stories regarding their products, especially their batteries and their ‘lifetime’ warranty. As far as general construction and work goes, pick your favorite from the lines of Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch or Rigid and you should be happy with whichever you choose.
Gary
I appreciate that the post and comments are answering Adam’s specific question, but aren’t the needs of a woodworker rather different than those of a DIYer? As an aspiring woodworker/DIYer, I’ve settled on:
– Milwaukee’s M18 & M12 systems (core tools, carpentry & demo, plumbing, etc.)
– Bosch’s corded woodworking tools (jigsaw, router, sander, etc.)
Stuart
A beginner woodworker and DIYer are going to start out with a lot of the same tools.
It depends on what you’re talking about. Here, I took DIYer in the project context, which would overlap with “beginner woodworker.”
Dcl
Not sure where you got your estimates, but Makita actually has a higher market share than Milwaukee at this point. I cant post exact numbers for you because its from a pay to read industry study, and I dont feel like getting sued. That said they are projected the overtake Makita by 2021. Though much of their industry growth is not really in powertools, but in hand tools, and accesories.
As far as my experiance withe festool, they are inovative tools, but are not built very well. My domino, which I really need because no one else makes something similar, probably breaks once every 6 months. My kapex developed all kinds of weird electrical gremlins if you left it in a dusty environment (a constuction site!). I bought their brushless drills before Milwaukee, Makita et al came out with them. The variable speed trigger was no longer variable after a year. Shortly after the batteries stopped holding much of a charge, which is just as well because the charger stopped working after 18 months.
fred
Interesting.
My Domino XL isn’t used in a production environment and so far so good – but I’m hoping that your problems are not indicative of things to come for me.
I demurred on buying a Kapex – after seeing a lot of negative comments about motor failures – don’t know if Festool has fixed that issue.
I’ve only had a few issues with my TS55 REQ – mostly related to what I think is a shameful design (and cost) for rail connectors that don’t set up and hold position very well. My solution was to buy the Festool FS 2700 at what I considered an obscene price at the time of $320 with tax and special shipping. Today – I might try using the aftermarket connector from Betterley. The saw also bogged down on me and cut out (thermal overload) – but that was my fault pushing it too hard with some purple heart.
Stuart
Globally or domestically?
SBD’s most recent materials say that they’re at the top, then Bosch, Makita, TTI.
But in the USA, Milwaukee boasted about gaining on Dewalt in terms of popularity, and I’m almost certain they said they took the lead, or were soon about to.
I’m always up to seeing hard numbers, which are often very hard to come by.
fred
Statistics also can build you up or let you down depending on how you slice and dice things and what you report. Is it gross or net sales? Gross or net income from sales? Market capitalization? ROE or ROIC ? Net sales from the tool segment? The power tool segment? SBD and TTI have several power tool brands – so do you report them separately? . Whatever you measure – all three companies are giants in the small power tool business. Probably more for them (possibly their investors too) to worry about who’s #1, #2 and #3 than for us.
Juraj Simic
I guess different brands have different niches. In Germany the most seen ones are Makita, Bosch, Hilti and Festool. DeWalt and Milwaukee are rarities and not widely available.
In my line of work I deal with both wood and steel and general go-to heavy duty tools have always been Makita and to a lesser degree Hilti.
Personally I have always found Festool rather overrated. They are fine tools, but simply lack durability and reliability outside a carpenter’s workshop.
My listing is for:
drivers and impacts – makita
angle grinders – Makita
Sanders – Festool (though I would think twice about using my €500rotex on drywalls and the like
Drills and hammerdrills – blue Bosch
Mitre saws – metabo
ALL other saws – Mafell (they make festool look like cheap toys in comparison, both from build quality and, unfortunately, price)
Routers – smaller ones Festool, large ones Mafell
Demolition hammers – Hilti
fred
All of a sudden timber framing (mostly faux) became all the rage in one area where we worked. We subbed on a few jobs, learned some of the trade and decided that we needed some large power planes (6 inch wide and 12 inch wide) plus a beam saw and a chain mortiser. We figured we could write off the tools on a few jobs that we landed – but after pricing Mafell – we realized we figured wrong – and bought Makita.
As an example the Mafell ZH 320Ec plane sells for almost $5500 here in the US – the Makita KP312 sells for just under $2000. The same sort of price spread applied to the other tools as well. We had seen some of the Mafell tools in work – and you do get what you pay for – but the Makita tools were quite serviceable. When the fad slowed down and passed a bit – we were happy that we were not stuck with such a large investment.
Juraj Simic
Here timber framing has been a ‘fad’ that has been going strong for at least last 700 years, and it is hugely common and popular still, so the market is going strong.
Does one need a chain mortiser for €12,000 or a twin engined chainsaw for 10k…99% of us probably not, no.
Are they worth the price? That has to be a personal decision, but a €4000 circular saw will probably not be 10 times better than an entirely solid one from Makita for around €500
I am, and always will be a Makita fan, especially, but not exclusively, for their 18v range. But I guess for many of us, having the best and fanciest machine is more of a tool-fetish than a need-driven urge. I have not for a second regretted upgrading to the Mafell tracksaw, even though it is only fractionally better than the old Makita but at almost twice the price. Same will go for their jigsaw when they release the cordless version, even though I am more than happy with my Makita which has and continues to serve me dutifully for past 3 years.
Plate joiner(biscuit cutter) is another example, I do not use it or need it very often and the Makita is more than sufficient and performs extremely well, but if I got into cabinet building and would use it daily, I would probably invest in Lamello. Necessary? No tool-fetish? Yes
Ct
Very good article on a very tricky subject. In my opinion I think you hit the nail on the head
ktash
Like others have said, for corded tools, sticking with a single brand doesn’t make sense. I’m a woodworker/DIYer and have researched each tool, starting with mostly corded. Here are some observations from the woodworking side:
I really like the Bosch ROS65VC-6 6-Inch Pad Rear-Handle Random Orbit Sander with Vibration Control. When I was starting out I didn’t realize how important the vibration control is. The 5 inch version is less expensive. I got it when I had a $50 off coupon. I have a Bosch VAC005 5-Meter Vacuum Hose 35mm, and it’s my favorite hose (I have a large shop vac/cyclone setup). I have never been thrilled with the hoses sold by the woodworking stores.
I agree with Stuart about the high-end Bosch jigsaw. They make a cordless version too, I think both 12v and 18v.
For handheld routing I like the DEWALT DWP611PK 1.25 HP Max Torque Variable Speed Compact Router Combo Kit with LED’s, and nearly always use it with the plunge base. I like the dust collection for it. This only takes 1/4 inch bits. Mostly my spiral plunge bit lives in it. I use it to route circles, make shelf pin holes, etc.
I recently got a Ridgid cordless trim router and really like it. Some things I don’t care so much about the cordless, but rounding over the edges on a large cabinet it’s a joy to have! I already had a Ridgid corded trim router (clearance item) and liked it a lot. With cordless routers it’s ideal to handle them and see if you like the balance, etc.
I also have larger routers Dewalt Plunge for bigger jobs using 1/2″ bits and am finally building a router table–using the big Triton model.
I like the Ryobi Airstrike Brad Nailer and yesterday got the Airstrike pin nailer, which I haven’t tried yet. Love the brad nailer and it gets a lot of use.
I recently got the Makita 18v brushless subcompact drills and think they are perfect for woodworkers. I already had Makita as my good 18v drills and like them a lot for woodworking.
As a woodworker with a basement shop, dust control is always frustrating. If I were starting over, I might buy into the Festool system for that reason alone, just the track saw, Kapex miter saw, domino. I’ve had use of the domino, but it seemed far out of my price range.
I think that for woodworkers it’s more about finding the tool to do the job rather than sticking with a brand. I usually research the tool, consult camelcamelcamel.com and then wait for coupons/clearance/holiday sales.
Shawn
It is a question of brand quality, but also an issue of how often and how heavy you’ll use and tax that tool. You want to match your tool needs with how much you’ll stress a given tool. I move up the brand quality ladder for tools that I’ll use often, and tools where I want the best features, accuracy, ease of use, etc.
For corded tools, I’ll choose anything that fits the quality levels that I want and cost that I willing to pay. In many cases, this has been DeWalt for portable stationary tools, but I also have Makita, Milwaukee, and Bosch–all depending on how well a given tool performs for my needs. For corded tools, they’re generally built well and I don’t think they will fail given the amount that I use them–maybe for my lifetime.
For cordless, warranty is another factor. I settled on Ridgid 18V brushless tools largely because of the lifetime warranty. As DIYer/woodworker, there is no way that I’m going to stress the batteries like a contractor would, but batteries are more like “fruit” than anything–they decay over time. They’re going to go bad, so it’s only a matter of time until those need to be replaced. If I were a contractor I probably would choose according to other criteria, but I don’t need the best in every tool.
The same goes for many of my pneumatic tools–I don’t need the best framing nailer out there because I’m not going to do that much construction for myself. However, I will spend more on a compressor because I want that to last and will use it with a variety of pneumatic tools over time.
Just my $0.02 🙂
A W
Excellent article Stuart, and this matches my experience as a DIYer.
Adam, I would stick with DeWaltt 18V for an impact driver. You can always get a smaller one if you find you need it, but it stinks to start out with a 12V tool that runs out of torque on a bigger project. Since you already have a DeWalt drill, I’d get a yellow driver.
I’ve found that trying to save money with cheaper power tools leads to inaccuracy and frustration, and ultimately to having to replace it with a better tool. Random Orbit Sanders seem like something where quality wouldn’t matter, but the cheap ones lose their hook and loop security quickly. I now have two, because my first one failed on it’s first project and I had to go back and buy a DeWalt.
The nice thing with corded tools (as others have noted) is you’re not tied to a specific color, and can research individual tools.
I would recommend the nicer Bosch barrel style jigsaws, the Bosch router, and DeWalt table saws and miter saws. One thing to look for with miter saws are how true they are out of the box, and how much flex is in the system. I replaced a Hitachi 10″ saw with a DeWalt 12″ after the Hitachi seemed flimsy and the clamp broke.
ktash
I agree with you on the 12v vs 18v drill question with power. But for woodworkers, a smaller form drill and driver can be pretty important. With woodworking and DIY I am frequently having to get into some small spot with my drill and driver. I chose Makita because they have a good 18v drill and driver that are relatively small. More recently I got the subcompact 18v, but it doesn’t have as much power at the larger, but still compact one.
Oh, and I use the Black and Decker gyro screwdriver all the time, like to install screws for drawer slides.
ktash
Harbor Freight. I’d never buy a power tool corded or cordless from them for long-term use. I’d never compare them with Hitachi or Porter Cable. They are in a league below any other company. They are trying to come up, but even there they are overpricing the tools.
I did buy a corded paint remover for a one-time use for a DIY garage and shed painting job. It did the job I needed at the time. I’ve been very happy with a few of their hand tools, like their flush-cut saw for under $7 if you include the coupon. Their US general red shop storage boxes are a great value for the money. Some supplies like latex gloves, etc.
Some of their stuff gets decent reviews at value prices. Their dust collector, for instance. If you read the reviews on youtube, etc and are on a budget these can work.
Charlie
Ok I agree retool makes good tools,cannot go wrong in general.I am totally surprised Hilti is not mentioned as most everything they make is extremely durable,though pricey,imo they make the best tools at present..I personally don’t care for Ridgid though they do make so.e nice tools,warranty is great on their tools too.Now Milwaukee, Makita,Dewalt…and Bosch…I personally have 85%Milwaukee tools..Warranty,5 years,can’t be beat.In 20 + yrs contracting I’ve had 3 tools that broke .I sent em back and they fixed free of charge…As well most of their tools ,even older tools,20 plus years old are still fixable as their replacement parts are second to no other manufacturer.That being said I think Bosch is also a decent choice….I truly think their miter box and table saws are the best offered ,imo..The rest of their tools as well are well built..Makita makes decent tools as well just not my choice ..other than their skill saw truly like that for general cut work…Dewalt tools…just average imo.. Warranty quality etc just ok…Bad about discontinuing parts after 3 to 5 years so if tool brakes it’s trash basically….I stay away from their tools period….Ryobi…junk..bottom line
Joe J
The build quality of Festool stuff really isn’t any better than less expensive brands in my experience.
Where Festool does shine is in design. Their tools are very good at what they do, but not necessarily more durable.
Joe J
I’m not sure there is a “best” brand though.
If I were a mechanic I would probably lean toward Milwaukee.
If I were a carpenter or general contractor I would probably use Dewalt.
If I were an electrician I might go for Makita.
If I were a finish carpenter or woodworker I would have Festool.
And of course there are plenty of other brands.
James Suhay
I’ve been a finish carpenter for 30 yrs and I’ve had them all except think but I have used them I believe there for home owners not every day hard work. At one point I had all Ridged and I liked them until there return policy went crazy from lifetime no questions asked to give up first born.. I turned in many receipts and waited for warranty verification but it never came. You used to be able to bring a tool in and they’d swap it NOT NO MORE If you could find your receipt you’d have to turn it on and 4 months later you may get it back. You even have to send in batteries. Festool I’ve used some there nice but too expensive and more for YouTube carpenter videos. Milwaukee makes some really nice stuff alone with DeWalt . I’m recently using Makita cordless and I’m happy with price and quality. Would like to try the new deWalt cordless tablesaw and 12″ child as. So my opinion is they all make some tools great I’m charging 3 different batteries everyday because each brand make a different tool that’s top notch.
dcustar
IMHO, Adam asked the wrong question (or the right question but wrongly). The better phrasing would be “For a budget of xxx, what is the best ______?” If the posts above collectively show any one thing, it is that the user’s budget is probably the first criteria in such a decision.
Jared Richael
Not one mention of kobalt on here. They don’t have a huge platform as far as 20 volt cordless yet but I think they will in the near future. The new brushless tools they offer are a very high quality mid range level brand.
Stuart
Kobalt makes okay cordless tools.
Will they abandon the platform like they did their previous 18V and 20V Max line?
As far as general power tools go, their selection pales in comparison to the other brands. I don’t recall hearing about any particular tool being best in class, or even close to it.
JoeM
I’m a hardcore DeWALT tool person, but I will always answer this question the same way. “That depends on your needs, and yearly budget.”
To be totally blunt, as much as I love DeWALT TOOLS, they absolutely SUCK at precision blades for Jigsaws and Oscillating Tools. They’re relatively innovative and excel at the BIG blades, for Circular Saws, Metal Cutting Saws,Reciprocating Saws, and all of those 5″-12″ range of tools. But, reality is, some of these blades they haven’t been making for long, and you genuinely have to put your brand loyalty, and pride, aside when getting the blades for your tools.
Drill Bits and Screwdriver Bits, typically, perform at their peak when used with the same brand of tool they were made by. As with all things, this has exceptions in the specialty range. I believe Wiha makes better Precision Screwdriver bits, and Micro-Bit holders than any other brand, including DeWALT who make the actual gyro screwdriver I use my precision bits on. Doesn’t hurt that DeWALT doesn’t actually make ANY Precision 4mm Hex sized bits, just the 1/4″ ones. So Wiha has some DEFAULT points there.
Shockingly…For a DeWALT fanatic like me, I have to admit that I prefer the Bosch/Dremel family of small Jigsaw and Oscillating Tool blades, over and above DeWALT or any other brand. Hook-And-Loop sandpaper pads… I’m still not positive on that. I’m not even sure how I’d test them, as the sanding triangle is a different size on most brands, and I’m not willing to buy a whole sanding system for each brand, simply to find a favourite.
For ME… I can’t afford to replace my tools frequently, so I save up for DeWALT for their reliability. Big or small, daily use or stored for years, my DeWALT tools still fire up first time around. But that’s ME. If you can make money enough to replace more often, maybe relax and go with a Milwaukee, or Makita, or Bosch. They’re still QUALITY brands, they’re just a little less of an INVESTMENT type of brand, that’s all. What matters is you get what’s right for YOU.
johnny
Buy the best you can afford. Never ever buy something cause its cheap. Always look at quality. And google reviews. There is so much info out there. You have the advantage.
ood luck
Jeremiah
Another brand for stationary tools is jet. A couple foundation tools for diy and woodworking not mentioned are a drill press and bench grinder. Depending how handy you are i would encourage you to check out used corded tools, Especially stationary tools. You may try keeping an eye out for auctions or sales from businesses such as contractors or woodworking shops closing their doors.
FD
While my Ridgid tools have been good to me, the registered lifetime warranty has not. As stated here before, the free batteries for life guarantee that prompted me investing in ridgid 24v li-ion tools has been a total bust. Discontinued. No batteries. Bad warranty experience with some of their other tools that were defective (compressor with toolbox) or misaligned from the factory (their big / shop table saw and could not be set true)
How serious is this woodworking going to be? Some people’s small hobby creations making big cabinets, furniture, …
As far as power tools for some DIY and remodeling, I’d say Ryobi for the choice of bare tools. Get a starter kit. Add to it.
Kobalt is getting attention with some of the competitive battery pricing.
Other more expensive brands, especially staionary, if you make a living using them, and need the extra power and durability .. get quality. Other than that. Would you rather have one two three huge ticket “commercial quality” items or a whole workshop kitted out a-z with tools that get the job done and will last ten to twenty years easily anyhow?
Tool of the trade
This is a loaded question. Everyone has their own opinions about which brands are better. There’s a thousand different brands of power tools throughout the world. There’s only a handful here in America. Which types of power tools are you referring to and which trades? There’s metal working tools, construction tools, automotive tools, woodworking tools, etc. If you’re talking about construction tools then the consensus will probably say Dewalt, Milwaukee, makita, etc. There’s not a best overall. Each one of these brands makes some good tools as well as some horrible tools. Before the market was oversaturated like it is now, there was only a handful of brands to choose from. Craftsman made some of the best power tools ever made back in the day. And for a long time, they pretty much owned the market for quality, built to last tools. Tools today are nowhere near built with the same quality as 50 years ago. The tools today might have all the I est technology, but that doesn’t mean that the build quality is there. Plastic has played a major role in the demise of quality throughout the industry. You cannot deny it. Just about everything today is designed and manufactured to be disposed of and replaced within a few years of buying it solely because the tools are made of plastic. So there’s nothing good or great or best about any of these products that are purposely made with a limited life span. This mainly pertains to cordless tools. I’m still not understanding why cordless tools cost more than corded tools when corded tools last so much longer. I’m dumbfounded on that one. I’m of the mindset that if I spend hundreds of dollars on a tool, it should last a long time. Whether it be a cordless or corded, I shouldn’t have to spend hundreds of dollars for something to break because the manufacturer is too cheap to make something that is designed to be a true built to last workhorse and that they care more about their profit margins and trying to make the cheapest acceptable product with no build quality and gouge the price of a half-assed product. This wasn’t the mindset of the men who started these companies. They wanted to make the best product that they could and that was far more important than their profit margin. Maybe when they start making tools built to last again, then this question will have some merit.
fred
Perhaps its a “lament of old age” but being born in the 1940’s I too grew up with tools that were built to last. I’ve posted in the past about the demise of premium woodworking tools from Porter Cable, the high quality of tools (like the Super Sawcat) from Black and Decker and how I’m still using old Delta and Walker Turner machinery. This is not just nostalgia and I don’t subscribe to the lyrics that Archie Bunker sang : “gee my old LaSalle ran great” – because I think cars are much better today than the Buicks and Oldsmobiles I bought in the 1960’s, 1970’s. and 1980’s.
When we first moved to cordless tools (Makita started it with 7.2V then 9.6V) we soon realized that they would not last – and maybe we’d prefer lower price to longevity – because something new always seemed to be on the horizon. Sure we wanted functionality – but we learned to write cordless tools off on a faster depreciation schedule than what we were used to with their corded predecessors. Many times, I was told that a failed cordless tool could no longer be serviced or ( more likely ) was not worth servicing. This seemed like a much less frequent occurrence when we were using corded tools. I also think that the buying public is more accepting of an “in with the new and out with the old ” philosophy – always wanting the latest computer, newest phone – and by extension latest tools. Pushing this philosophy along – and profitably selling more and more batteries and brushless tools – certainly helps the manufacturers bottom line.
Tool of the trade
And that’s the main reason why it’s hard to consider any brand to be a better brand. All they are concerned with is their bottom line. They no longer care about making the best and most durable product using the best materials to make sure that it does last. It is the exact opposite today. If it lasts, then its a better brand. It doesn’t matter whose name is on the label. And just because it costs more doesn’t mean that it’s better. Just about all cordless tools are junk and you certainly don’t get what you pay for. Not even close. Your lucky to get more than 3 or more years out of them. Build quality doesn’t apply to cordless tools because they are purposely made to be thrown away and built with the lowest standard parts. There is nothing good or better about that. A three hundred dollar plus cordless tool shouldn’t need to be replaced because it’s components are cheap trash with some circuit boards. I’m not even 40 years old and I haven’t seen much of the old school tools. But I do own some old craftsman, b&d, Rockwell, south bend, delta tools. Some of them were made in the 30’s and 40’s and they run like they were made yesterday. And it’s because product quality meant a lot more than manufacturing the cheapest acceptable product for more profit. But just about every brand from back then made all around better tools than what’s available today. The components were hands down built so much better than the trash they stuff into tools now. And even though they had less power & didn’t have the bells and whistles like todays tools or look as nice, they were quality built made to last tools. And I’m sure that all of the people who designed those tools certainly didn’t think of how to make it with the cheapest parts available to where it would need to be replaced in a few years. I’m surprised that they haven’t tried to make saw blades or drill bits out of plastic. Better brands? Anything that I can honestly say I got my money’s worth out of is a better brand.
Joe
To me it’s about are you working in a shop or home or are you working in the field . No one is buying those other brands to trim out custom homes, Bosch,Dewalt ,hitachi. Makita are going to rein supreme. I’m a framer and I see many different trim guys every month. The brands I mentioned are almost the only brands on the job , with Dewalt being the most popular. I’m on the east coast, so probably different everywhere else..
Most of the trim guys I talk to aren’t looking for cheap tools to get the job done, but rather quality tools that last. …Festool is never on any job, not do to price but the quality of the tool does not hold up to the riggers of the job, in and out of the van daily,falling off a horse set up, and the storage will break if they fall…
fred
We (4 distinct businesses – 2 shops and 2 field operations – almost 200 employees total) – and for cordless we used Makita and Milwaukee mostly – with a few Dewalt tools thrown in. The only Festool I saw out in the field was with our painting subcontractor – who used Festool sanders and dust extraction tools. Of course – if you watch TOH – you will see Tom Silva using Festool stuff.
My few Festool tools – for personal use – were bought at a time when there were few other if any choices (early adopter of their track saw and Domino XL) – but they don’t see commercial use – and I would not have bought much Festool fro the businesses (we did have a Domino machine in the cabinet shop)
Grady
Corded , woodworking, bench tools, and nobody mentioned “JET” . Any comments?
Stuart
Have you looked at Jet user reviews lately?
keystoneclimber
Your list should probably look more like this…
Festool
Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch, Rigid
Porter Cable, Ryobi
Harbor Freight, Hitachi
Lynn Hooper
I work for a company that sells tools and I only agree with one of your overall impressions. Festool makes higher quality tools that I would love to own. But they also obviously market to the rich and I’m not convinced that their high prices are equal to their high quality. But your impression that Porter Cable and Hitachi are in the same category as Harbor Freight shows that you are giving too much credit to Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight is the lowest price and by far the lowest quality. Their motto should be “you get what you pay for” and “buyer be ware”