Bosch has come out with a new 12V Max brushless cordless drill/driver kit, GSR12V-300B22.
The new Bosch brushless drill looks a little more compact than their current-generation PS32, and going by the numbers it is actually 1/2″ shorter from front to back.
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In addition to being a little more compact, it’s also a little more powerful. And faster.
- 300 in-lbs max torque
- 0-460/0-1750 RPM
- 6.0″ length
- Weighs 1.6 lbs (without battery)
- 3/8″ chuck
- 20 + 1 clutch settings
For comparison purposes, the PS32 is rated at 265 in-lbs max torque, has a 0-400/0-1300 RPM gearbox, and is 6.5″ long.
The kit comes with the drill, a belt clip, (2) 2.0Ah batteries, a basic charger, and a carrying case.
Price: $159 (Amazon’s pre-launch pricing, subject to change)
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Compare(PS32 via Amazon)
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Update: If you can’t wait, you can buy the EU version of the bare tool from Amazon Germany.
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Discussion
Going by online product images, it looks like the new Bosch GSR12V-300 brushless drill has been redesigned from the ground up. For example, the direction and speed range selection switches are different. The new drill also has more overmolding, bringing it closer in line with current Bosch drill and driver styling.
Compared to the previous generation 12V Max brushless drill, the new model is more compact, more powerful, and significantly faster. At the low speed/high torque setting, it’s 15% faster, and at the high speed setting, it’s nearly 35% faster. The new drill has a 13.2% greater max torque rating.
I can’t describe how or why, but I find myself a little mesmerized by the look of the new drill.
Now, about the charger that comes with the kit… this isn’t a budget offering, and so shouldn’t it have a standard Bosch 12V Max charger? On the other hand, as long as it can recharge Bosch 12V Max Li-ion batteries respectably fast, its compact size might be a benefit. More invested Bosch users might have a multi-port charger, in which case a bulky 12V charger might be redundant.
Given my affinity towards Bosch’s PS32 brushless drill/driver, I’m going to have to give this one a try once it’s released.
Julian Tracy
What is that toy looking charger doing in a pro tool kit? Wtf?!
Toolfreak
Cost. Probably the reason they can price a new tool kit at $159, which will mean it will cost $99-129 retail, which is quite a drop from the PS32 kit that came with the BC330 charger which was slow anyway, and redundant if you already had one or sprang for a BC430 fast charger.
fred
What ever happened to the BC430 charger for Bosch USA to discontinue it from their listings?
Kizzle
This is basically the brushless flexiclick with a permanent chuck. Or…wait. Could it be that the brushless flexiclick is this drill with removable chuck? The mind boggles.
JakeJ
Any chance that ‘little’ Box at the end of the ‘little’ charger could have a build in transformer, meaning it would charge 110-240V 50/60h? I have a few elecronic devices/ chargers with this already. Makes it very handy to work/travel overseas. Just needs an adaptor for whatever country
Stuart
I’d assume that’s just a wall-wart-style transformer to take 110V AC down to whatever DC voltage the battery charges at.
For most brands, you need to buy region specific chargers unless you can use a separate voltage converter of some kind.
JakeJ
Bummer. I work in US and Australia and have some different chargers in 110v and 240v but I do have a few US ones I run from a step down transformer in Australia. (Bostitch and 7.2VNicad Hitachi ones I cant find in Aus) Normally , they’ll charge fine, … but the transformer isn’t a long term solution.
The What?
300 in/lbs=25 ft/lbs. Incredibly weak. Pathetically weak. A ratcheting screwdriver has more torque than that. I didn’t know something that weak could cost that much. $160 for a 25ft/lb torque drill? Why would anyone want something that weak to drill a hole or drive a screw with? That’s not even enough to drive a deck screw into wood after you predrilled the hole. And I still don’t understand why they insist on using in/lbs to advertise torque for a drill/driver when the predominant unit of torque measurement in the US is ft/lbs. I’ve used my ¼” drive torque wrench, which is in/lbs, maybe once in the last 15 years of doing my own mechanic work. It’s an obsolete unit for measuring torque. And where are the “megawatt” tools that Bosch advertised several months ago? They made it seem like they were coming out with all of these badass tools and they’ve yet to release anything other than the freak which was already available when they made the announcement. What are they waiting on? Where in the hell are these megawatt tools and why are they wasting their time making this weak crap that could barely drill a hole through drywall? Say what you want about Bosch making good tools (which does not mean they are professional grade by any means nor does the high end price tag have anything to do with such considerations) but I still have serious doubts about Bosch being considered as a high end professional brand of power tools based on the fact that I’ve never seen one being used at any capacity by any contractor I’ve ever met on the hundreds job sites I’ve been on in the past 20 years other than their rotary hammer. That seems to be the only construction grade Bosch tool that people want or consider worthy of buying. The only other tool of theirs that I’ve seen (and own) is their laser tapes. Which tells me that the that not even their super expensive high end track saw or table saw or miter saw which everyone claims is so awesome is meant for job site use. Never seen them. I’ve seen everything else on job sites in & outside of the metro Atlanta area including festool, which I’ve seen twice, but never seen a Bosch power tool other than the rotary hammer. There’s nothing professional about a drill that has 25 ft/lb torque. I wouldn’t even consider that to be diy grade. And yet it costs $160?
JakeJ
Be Careful, some companies, measure the amount of torque as ‘max torque’ whether others use a ‘sustained torque’; maybe Bosch does that? I’m a carpenter, not an electrician, so I’ll leave it to someone else to explain the difference. In saying that, I just finished a job using the old brushed Bosch 12v drill to pre-drill/countersink every decking board on a 12 ft x 30 ft deck, through pacific jarrah, which is a super dense hardwood. It had no problems, swapping between the 4 & 6 ah batteries. In fact, I started the job using my compact 18v milwaukee but switched to my 12v Bosch because of weight. Definitely not ‘pathetically weak’,,, not even weak really.
Wags
Nice rant.
I had to look up the Milwaukee 3/8″ M12 drill, 275 in-lbs, oh, I’m sorry, 23 ft-lbs of torque.
I’m a big fan of Milwaukee, I have a lot of M18 tools , but I still have 3 Bosch 12v drills that have so far kept me from investing in M12 drills.
Stuart
You’re way off base. If you want a more powerful drill, step up to a larger and heavier 18V tool. Do you want to he able to drive 1/2″ lags with a tool this small?
This is akin to complaining that a paring knife isn’t large enough to butcher a cow. Or that precision shears can’t cut a service line. Or that you can’t pull a trailer or fit a full sheet of plywood into a conpact sedan.
300 in-lbs us PLENTY for a tool like this. More power and you’ll lose sensitivity of the clutch settings.
Lance
The class leading M12 Fuel drills are only 350 in-lbs. The What? needs a reality check. 300 in-lbs is more than enough torque to drive medium size screws, but most people use impacts for that anyway, so?
Michael Veach
Check your facts before having a run away.
CountyCork
@TheWhat? Are you color blind by any chance? 20 years and have never seen a blue tool at a worksite besides rotary hammer. Come on man……..Blue is a professional brand if you like it or not.
Rami
Barely drill a hole through drywall? Do you have any idea about drills and what kind of torque it requires to make a certain sized hole in certain material? I guess you have never used a drill, or any other power tool. That is okay, not everybody needs to know about tools. I guess the one time you used your torque wrench was the only time you ever used a tool of any kind..
Koko
We have several Blue 12V Bosh brushed screwdrivers in our workshop and they are by far the most used tools, even though we have much more powerful ones. We use the 18v ones for drilling larger holes on wood, but for driving screws and small holes in pine – you just use the smallest tool that can make the work done. The clutch mechanisms on the 12v ones are very precise as well, something that is not always given on a 18V combo-drill.
The fact that we use them intensively on daily bases for so many things and already many years and they still survive and keep going – I suppose makes them some kind of a professional. And by the way – Bosch are much used in other places, like Europe.
JakeJ
You’re right Koko. However, the problem with Bosch is just the time lag when these great tools are released in todays ‘have it now’ world. I work around a lot of carpenters, each one of us having different brand cordless platforms. Most of my gear is Bosch, and I’ll be honest, I drool when I see other carpenters using their cordless track saws, mitre saws and table saws on a daily basis, even though i know they’re not 100 necessary with what i do. And to make it worse, they (bosch) throw out teaser photos of upcoming tools that just seem like forever to hit the market.
Steve
Sorry but you really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. I easily drove hundreds of 3″ deck screws using a Mastercraft drill/driver with 105 in/lb of torque and 500rpm max. About the only thing that driver had trouble with was boring holes greater than 1/2″ into 100 year old hardwood.
Matt
Can we expect to see other upgraded Bosch 12v tools, in your opinion?
Stuart
Bosch is too unpredictable. Maybe eventually? If I recall correctly, their brushless impacts followed their drill and screwdriver.
Toolfreak
I don’t think it’s a question of IF there will be other 2nd-gen 12V brushless tools, just WHEN they will be released and WHAT tools they will be.
Bosch has only released a few brushless 12V tools so far, and so my guess would be they were holding back on those in favor of making the 2nd gen brushless stuff the more extensive lineup to replace the brushed tools.
I’d guess there will eventually be a brushless 12V 1/4 hex driver to go with the drill, either regular or an impact driver or both, and maybe another 3/8″ impact wrench to replace the current brushless one.
Thing is, it may be months or more than a year after this drill hits the market before any other tools follow it. It might be years after that before Bosch has even all four of the tools I mentioned above on the market, if at all.
This is why I’m glad I just went for the brushed 12V tools many years ago and suggested others do the same. It’s not worth playing the waiting game, you will be waiting years and will have missed out on a LOT of tool use by the time their brushless line is anywhere near comprehensive or complete.
Rick
I’ll repeat an earlier txt regarding power tools: Extremely happy with my Makita 18v and Milwaukee M12 fuel units
Rich
Still waiting for a Bosch 12v ratchet.
Eric
I would love 1/4″ and 3/8″ versions of a ratchet. Again, do not need to be most powerful, just nice to use and small and light.
The specs on the Bosch 12v items are not impressive, yet I find myself using them whenever possible compared to my DeWalt 20v/60v counterparts.
Jim Felt
I gave up and bought into Milwaukee. Short and the newer longer versions. No regrets.
Not on Bosch. On their lack of particular tools.
Frank
If this has a bare-tool version I’ll probably get it. I have a bosch PS22-02 and its great for everything but having a regular chuck would be nice. I bought a set of dewalt “impact ready” drill bits that are on a quick release power bit style shank and use those for general hole drilling but for drilling/tapping I have to use another drill.
PETE
FINALLY A BELT CLIP!!!! I’ve said it 100 times and i’ll say it again. The ONE reason i sold my bosch kit and went to milwaukee is because they didn’t have a belt clip! While i’ll still a milwaukee fan, this looks a really nice drill.
Travis
All of the current model Bosch 12v brushless have a belt clip and they have been out a couple years now. You had some of the original brushed tools.
PETE
Indeed
Neil Rosen
Sure, they Day AFTER I buy a PS 32
Stuart
Yes, but 1) your PS32 cost a lot less, and 2) the new model is likely a couple of months out.
blocky
I ordered my GSR12V-35 from Amazon.de this morning. Got it for $121 USD shipped to NY just the tool in an L-BOXX and without the battery/charger/canvas bag, which I already have. That’s about $50 cheaper, and I should have it in 2-3 weeks.
No one should feel bad about jumping on the PS32 deal. That drill is perfection.
Stuart
Thanks! I’m guessing you got the GSR 12V-35? I added a link to the post. Surprisingly, the L-Boxx bare tool bundle is less expensive than the bare tool by itself.
blocky
That’s the one — and yeah, L-BOXX is a pretty nice bonus!
Frank
nice, I went ahead and ordered the bare tool + L-boxx
Jim Felt
I gave away most of our L Boxxes. Too tacky/thin/dare I say cheap feeling. Zero padding. Kinda weak latches. And I personally don’t like the Bosch-centric color.
They all fit nicely in our Milwaukee boxes.
Rami
I wonder if Bosch will ever come up with 12v ratchets, as ratchet is one of the few tools where their battery-style beats slide-style batteries used by Makita and DeWalt in their 12v systems. Milwaukee tools cost a fortune compared to other brands here in Finland (I do not know their model numbers but their equivalent to the DeWalt DCD791P2 costs about 460€ when the DCD791P2 costs 299€), so I could buy Bosch ratchets if they ever come up with them, and maybe other tools alongside them.
Patrick
I know I harped on this a day or two ago (which you responded to; thank you), but I don’t get why Bosch is including 2012 (2013?) era batteries with a 2019 drill. The 2.0 was replaced by the equal sized 2.5 a few years ago and then the 3.0 ah (also the same size and form factor) has been out for a year or so. The market is too competitive to throw in a small battery and (potentially) a lame charger for that much money.
Toolfreak
My guess would be that Bosch went all-in on the 2.0Ah batteries years ago thinking that would be the standard capacity for the foreseeable future, after going up from 1.1 to 1.2 and 1.3Ah, and had millions of them produced, so they still have a ton of product to use up, and do it by including the now-lower-capacity batts in the kits.
It could also just be cost. Maybe Bosch has both the 2.0Ah and 3.0Ah batts produced, but the 2.5 and now 3.0Ah batts cost more and would raise the price of the kits, so they throw in the 2.0Ah and hope consumers spring for the newer 2.5-3.0Ah on their own.
Patrick
Possibly, but isn’t it just another 18650 cell in the exact same shell? I’m guessing they went from 20k mah, to 25k, to 30k. I know there are different discharge rates between different capacities and things that make it more complicated, but it’s just buying the same Samsung or Panasonic 18650 cells as everybody else and dropping them into the same battery shell they have had for well over a decade.
Just glancing at a wholesaler, the cost difference per cell is 40 too 50 cents for a 500 mah increase. There cells per battery should only justify a $2 increase.
Stuart
Even if it’s a 50 cent per difference per cell, that’s $1.50 per battery pack, or $3 for two. That’s Bosch’s wholesale cost difference, and not the difference in cost for the end user.
Battery capacity goes up, and charging time gets longer.
For most users, 2.0Ah is a fine balance between charge capacity, cost, and charging time.
Here’s the important question – do you want to spend more to get a 2.5Ah or 3.0Ah battery included in the kit? How much more? I’d guess that most people would say no.
Cordless power tool kits, especially drills and drivers, are very aggressively priced, and there’s not a lot of wiggle room to include more value without raising the price. We might see introductory pricing or promo pricing after a time, but I believe that’s more related to marketing than regular retail pricing or margins.
Jim Felt
I’ve got a bunch of the 2 Ah batteries for the 12V tools. And bought a couple the t shaped ones as well. Never seem to actually “need” the bigger ones. So far.
Toolfreak
The only one that really needs the bigger batteries is the reciprocating saw.
That thing will drain batteries FAST with continuous use.
JakeJ
Ive been using the 12v planer and router this morning taking off 1mm each side of decking boards and putting a round over on each edge. I had 2’s and 3’s to start with, but drained them pretty quick. Swapped for a 4 and 6 ah with much better results. Don’t quite understand why, but the 6ah battery seemed to give the planer a bit more juice. Super stoked with both of those tools though for what I’m doing at this job.
Patrick
Those are all true and fair statements. We should also keep in mind how much the cost of said cells has dropped in the 7-8 years they have been making the 2 ah battery. It’s not a secret that these cells are selling for less than half of what they were just 5 years ago for the same capacity.
I was pretty bummed to see how worthless the 2 ah battery was with the other 12v tools. As mentioned above, the capacity is laughable with the reciprocating saw and it’s not good with the jigsaw either. I suppose I would rather pay a little extra for the 3 ah batteries….even if the cost to make them is probably not too far off the cost of making the 2 ah batteries just a couple years ago. It’s better than having coughed up $75 for that 4 ah battery not too long before the 6 ah came out.
Charge time is a valid point, but I guess I have always been the person to throw it on the charger and walk away. Or have extra batteries around.
I really have no idea what’s available for 3k mah cells vs 2k and 2.5k for desired discharge rates though. Maybe there is lower capacity and higher discharge on the ‘smaller’ cells that is more desirable. I’m curious how much wiggle room is inside the shell that if a slightly wider and longer 21700 could ever fit inside without looking like the April Fool’s day gag from PTR a couple of years ago. Not curious enough to open it up myself though.
Stuart
Here’s another question – would you rather have a single 3.0Ah battery or (2) 2.0Ah batteries?
Separately, there could be performance-based reasoning for the 2.0Ah battery over 3.0Ah.
On paper, 2.0Ah 18650 cells can deliver higher current than 2.5Ah and especially 3.0Ah cells.
There’s the potential that a 3.0Ah compact battery won’t perform as well with heavier duty 12V Max cordless power tools than a 2.0Ah battery.
For say the cordless jigsaw, or router, a higher capacity 6-cell battery is going to be a better choice than 3.0Ah or 2.0Ah compact batteries.
Do you *need* a 3.0Ah battery for a 12V-class brushless drill?
A lot of users tend to prefer compact tools for lighter work, moving to 18V-class tools for heavier duty or longer duration projects.
For someone buying a kit such as this, what is most important?
Having 2 lower capacity batteries instead of 1 higher capacity compact battery?
Lower pricing?
Be able to use the same battery (effectively) with more power-hungry tools?
Milwaukee’s M12 Fuel drill kits come with 2.0Ah and XC 4.0Ah batteries.
The new Dewalt 12V Max cordless drill kit comes with 2.0Ah batteries.
I can understand the desire for higher capacity batteries. What I’m trying to show is that there are a couple of potentially strong reasons why the new Bosch drill is bundled with 2.0Ah batteries in the kit.
If you were the person in charge of making decisions about what is bundled in tool kits like this one, would you really configure it differently? Given a whole lot of what I feel to be reasonable assumptions, I probably would not.
Patrick
You make some great points. It seems like 2 is better than one, but I might not have bought that larger 4 ah battery if one of my (too many) 12v batteries was slightly higher capacity.
I really don’t know what discharge rates are available on the 2500 and 3000 mah cells. Are all lower capacity cells higher discharge than the bigger ones? I would want higher discharge for the saws. I want brushless motors, buts that’s a different discussion.
I think one thing to consider is that the average person buying a new kit doesn’t have the PhD you do. If Bosch suddenly started carrying a drill and driver impact kit for $199 usd and somebody was holding it up against the equivalent priced Milwaukee kit, I would think that the bigger battery would be enough to swing somebody over to the red side. That MKE kit is a poor example though. Right now it includes a free 3/8 ratchet which I have been drooling over. That is nuts to have the most recent drill and driver along with the ratchet for $200. I may jump ship to red by the end of the weekend myself.
Stuart
Samsung INR 18650 Li-ion cells used in cordless power tool battery packs have the following max current discharge specs. This is on-paper, and to the best of my recollection.
2.0Ah: 25A
2.5A: 22A (maybe 20A officially)
3.0Ah: 15A
Here’s some potentially helpful background reading:
https://toolguyd.com/revisiting-what-amp-hour-means-cordless-power-tool-batteries/
https://toolguyd.com/cordless-power-tool-battery-pack-limits/
With lighter duty tools, such as compact drills and impacts, 2.0Ah is really enough. Of, for the time being, let’s just say it’s enough. Users want higher capacity battery packs so they can be used with other tools.
I assume that 2.0Ah, 2.5Ah, and 3.0Ah packs have comparable cooling/thermal dissipation.
The heavier duty 12V-class tools tend to perform better with 6-cell batteries.
Let’s say you’re pushing a heavier duty 12V-class pretty hard and maxing out the current flow from a compact battery.
Related to the discharge capacities, a 3,0Ah pack will likely reach its thermal limits faster than 2.0Ah or 2.5Ah batteries.
In theory 2.0Ah and 2.5Ah cells might perform differently, but their on-paper specs are close enough and I’ve never heard much about real-world differences.
But with 3.0Ah… there’s a reason why a lot of brands stopped their 18V class battery packs at 2.5Ah. 3.0Ah cells were available, but the presumption is that performance wouldn’t have been up to par.
I was talking to one brand about their competitors’ 3.0Ah and 6.0Ah battery packs, and was told that in their tests the competitors’ batteries performed worse than lower capacity battery packs.
At higher discharge currents, temps go up. You also lose some charge capacity, but looking at some datasheets (at least those I included in https://toolguyd.com/revisiting-what-amp-hour-means-cordless-power-tool-batteries/ ), it’s not as big of an effect.
When posting about some cordless power tool kits or combo kits, I have to dig deep to determine which battery packs are included, and sometimes I’m unsuccessful.
Battery sizing can be a determining factor when comparing options across brands, but an amp-hour or less is not going to be a big difference.
When comparing say a Bosch drill kit to a Milwaukee drill kit, the battery sizing isn’t as important as say max torque or gearbox speeds. Even if one brand has a higher capacity battery, that doesn’t mean you get longer runtime, because you don’t know the electrical and mechanical characteristics of the motor.
When buying a kit above a certain price point, there is usually, or at least many times, the expectation that the user will buy further into the system.
You can buy higher or lower capacity battery packs later on. But the tool is less replaceable. Let’s say you buy another kit and a bare tool or two. That compact battery could still be useful, and you can buy additional batteries if or when needed, or if or when your budget permits it.
Could Bosch bundle the drill with a 3.0Ah battery? Sure. But perhaps its performance falls under that of 2.0Ah and 2.5Ah packs. Or, maybe a user wants 4.0Ah total in two batteries instead of 3.0Ah in one. With two batteries, you can have one on the charger and one in your tool. Charging times are also lower.
And for Bosch, lower costs on the battery pack means they can have some flexibility with promo pricing at times. Consider the couple of price-slashing promos they had for the FlexiClick on Amazon over the past few years.
It probably comes down to cost, and that it’s simply less expensive for Bosch to bundle kits like this with 2.0Ah batteries. Frankly, I don’t really mind. 2.0Ah is still better than 1.5Ah.
What I’m trying to say is that it would probably be unwise for Bosch to bundle these kits with a 3.0Ah battery, or even two such batteries.
Will it be a deal-breaker for anyone looking to buy this model if the kits are bundled with 2.0Ah batteries and not 2.5Ah? Maybe it will be a deal-breaker for some. How many lost sales would there be compared to if Bosch included 2.5Ah batteries and had to increase the price a little to offset the added costs and maintain the same profit?
I’m not saying it’s the right choice to include 2.0Ah batteries, although I don’t think I would do things differently. All this is part of what I told myself to answer the “why?”
Milwaukee includes higher capacity battery packs for their premium FUEL kits. Those are more power-hungry power tools, and they’re already premium-priced, and so stepping up to a higher capacity battery is justifiable on both sides. You don’t want the latest and greatest M18 Fuel tool bundled with a 3.0Ah XC battery, you want a 5.0AH XC battery. With the kits bundled with ≥9.0Ah batteries, you get Rapid Chargers.
With Bosch’s new brushless drill, I don’t see that same need or expectation for a higher capacity battery.
There could be other factors at play too. Maybe Bosch isn’t buying as many 2.5Ah cells anymore and has negotiated much better pricing on 2.0Ah cells. Maybe diminishing demand has driven up the price of 2.5Ah cells. There could be lower industry demand and smaller Bosch volume orders.
There is so much more to these decisions than we could fully understand without the types of information and insights that brands typically prefer to be kept private.
Patrick
**thumbs up emoji**
I was familiar with the link you cited. I didn’t realize that that discharge rate was so drastically different with the cells they are using. Wow.
Stuart
Another thing to mention is that battery pack performance doesn’t always follow on-paper specs.
The main idea is to keep a battery pack cooler.
Higher charge capacity means higher energy density, which usually means higher temperatures for the same discharge rate as lower capacity batteries. Electrochemistries with lower internal resistance might have lower temperature profiles.
When Milwaukee came out with their 9.0Ah batteries, I talked with them about how the battery packs performed compared to XC batteries. In theory, two 2.0Ah batteries in parallel can deliver close to 50A of current, and three 3.0Ah batteries in parallel can deliver close to 45A of current.
But, on-paper specs are a starting reference, and the cooling performance of battery packs can have a great influence on real-world temperature profiles and electrical and charge capacity.
There was a demo a few years ago showing a newer Fuel tool (cordless Hole Hawg) equipped with a 9.0Ah battery lasting longer than the same tool with an XC battery since the 10-cell XC battery was shutting down due to thermal limits.
There’s a whole lot more to cordless power tool batteries than one might think.
Patrick
…and I have learned most of the little that I do know here. Thanks!
Toolfreak
The battery capacity goes up when the cell capacity goes up for the same size cell, they don’t and can’t just add another cell to the plastic shell, at least if the shell stays the same size.
Just like most tech stuff, the latest and greatest costs more, so the higher capcacity cells used to make a 3.0Ah battery won’t be priced proportionally to the cells used to make a 2.0Ah battery, they will be high enough that it semi-justifies the $40-50 price per battery if you buy a new 3.0Ah battery individually.
As mentioned, the charging time is likely a factor as well. A 3.0Ah battery is going take 50% longer to charge than a 2.0Ah battery, and with Bosch including the s-l-o-w BC330 “1-hour” charger in it’s kits, and now the cheaper wall charger that is likely to take 2-3 hours or more, do you think they want customers waiting even longer to charge a higher capacity that is going to cost them more?
Including two 2.0Ah batteries in the kits makes the most sense from a cost perspective, as the initital buy-in cost is low, it makes the most sense from a time perspective as the customers can fully charge the batteries in about an hour with a BC330 charger, and they are still getting a pretty-standard 2.0Ah capacity battery that is fine for 12V tools, especially drills.
While I agree the newest 3.0Ah cells would make some sense to include with these latest 2nd gen brushless tools, even if it required making the kits go up to a premium price, I’d also guess that Bosch just doesn’t have enough of them manufactured to put two in every kit it’s going to sell. I’m fairly sure you’d see millions of 2.0Ah batteries at their manufacturing plant, and a fraction of that amount when it comes to the 2.5Ah and 3.0Ah batteries.
The big box stores often only have one or two of the 3.0Ah batteries in stock, if at all, and lots more of them have 2.5Ah batteries still on the hanger behind the 3.0Ah, and the majority of smaller retailers still have the 2.0Ah batteries new in the package trying to sell it for what the 3.0Ah can now be had for.
I do think that Bosch will eventually include the 3.0Ah batts as standard in the future, but it might be many years in the future, when the 2nd gen brushless line has more tools, and the individual 2.0Ah and 2.5Ah batteries are mostly gone from shelves. Of course, at that point the 4.0Ah battery will be a handle-size one and what they are selling seperately, and so the cycle of a larger capacity battery being available individually than what’s included in the kits will continue, possibly forever.
Drew M
Short answer is that Bosch isn’t competitive in the US cordless market and they don’t care.
Toolfreak
What? A shorter drill? A new rubber overmold grip design that puts rubber back on the front where your fingers grip it like the older 12V Max tools?
Was Bosch actually listening to customer feedback and reading comments on Toolguyd?
I’ll probably be getting this at a later date since this looks like the 2nd gen brushless I was waiting for, but hoping for an all-new lineup with a 3/8 impact driver and of course a 1/4 hex impact tool and the 3.0Ah batteries before I buy in.
The What?
Hold up. Hold the fkn phone. I did in fact use a Bosch recip saw about 4 months ago for about 10 minutes because I was waiting to get my Dewalt back from my coworker (he left his Dewalt at home that day). I’m almost positive that my buddy threw it in the dumpster when we cleaned up that day. And I didn’t say it had to have enough torque to drive lag bolts, did I? No I did not. Why are you blowing shit way out of proportion? And what in the hell are you talking about akin to complaining about knives not being sharp enough to butcher a cow? Huh?? Where did you find that at? And I didn’t complain about anything. I just said it was a weak ass drill. So don’t get it twisted. If it has plenty of torque then it should be able to drill thru steel. I bet it couldn’t even drill a hole thru a joist hanger.
Frank D
It can’t be all that bad, because Bosch is a still great professional and well respected tool brand in the rest of the world.
Kizzle
a·nal·o·gous
/əˈnaləɡəs/
adjective
comparable in certain respects, typically in a way which makes clearer the nature of the things compared.
He was using the paring knife analogy to try and explain to you why your irrationally angry rant was flawed. I suppose his analogy maybe wasn’t simple enough? Why does Bosch make you so mad, bro? We can talk and get through this together if you’d like. I know that the color blue usually illicites a calming emotional response in most people, but if it sends you into a rampage…. that’s okay too! How many in/lbs….oops I’m sorry, you expressed that you hate that measurement… How may ft/lbs would you like to see in a Bosch drill? Personally, I’m with you man. Where does this multi-billion dollar company even get off by releasing this stuff that sells so well? I was so dissatisfied with my 12v Bosch drill that I gave it to my wife to use as a cake mixer, but you know what? Damn thing, having only 300 in/lbs, broke on the first bowl of batter!! We should write a strongly worded letter; or better yet, an irrationally pissed off comment on Toolguyd. That’ll show em.
Eric
I used to like the daily updates just for the information but now I love it for the entertainment! Stuart -Thank You!
Chip
This is to Patrick since the reply button was gone?
If you buy the M12 impact/drill and they have the 3/8 ratchet in stock.
You can return the ratchet for a $72 – ish refund.
That is what I did.
I did the same thing with the fuel hackzall.
So I ended up with drill, impact,hackzall, 2# 4ah, 1# 2ah, 2 bags, 2 chargers, for about $220.
For the M12 at home depot, the free 3/8 ratchet gives the best refund.
The What?
First of all I didn’t say I hated anything or anything in the context of hatred. And not once did I mention one word about me being mad, angry or pissed off at Bosch or Mr Stuart. And it’s rather sad that some people are so cotton skinned that they interpret any sort of disdain or opposing opinions as a hateful angry rant. You’re probably the kind of guy who teaches his kid not to fight back if a bully picks on him because he’s scared his kid might get angry or lose a fight. And how on earth can a person be angry at or hate a measurement? Who thinks that sort of thing up. How many ft/lbs should it have? At least half of the torque the 18v drill has. And FYI they’re multiplying the torque measurement by 12 so they can make it look like a big number for advertising purposes because nobody makes a torque measuring device that registers that many in/lbs. And also for the fact that if they printed 25ft/lbs on the box and advertised 25 ft/lbs online, nobody would consider it to be professional grade or worth the cost.
Kizzle
Your username is apropos, because I have no idea why you say the things that you do. The irony of your assumptions about other people’s motives and beliefs or feelings is apt.
I just want to pose a couple of questions regarding your points: if engineers were able to provide half the torque of an 18v tool in a 12v size; wouldn’t they? 12v tools are about size and weight first and foremost. It’s the whole purpose for their existence. It’s not as simple as just, “make it half the torque of an 18v tool otherwise this tool is a massive failure piece of junk” as you believe it to be. Would you enlighten me on how they will accomplish this? If you have the technology and know-how, I’m sure Bosch would hire you and pay you quite well as their engineers are obviously inept for being unable to come to the same conclusion that you have. I use my 12v tools for finesse and precision. I wouldn’t like if they had a lot of torque as it would defeat the purpose. I have an m12 fuel gen 2 drill and I hate the thing. Even on clutch setting number 1, I almost always cam out or overdrive my fastener. I bought the Bosch 12v due to Stuart’s glowing recommendation regarding the clutch, and he was right. There’s so much more to tools than power. I am going to sell the m12 after using the Bosch precisely for the reason of the m12 having too much torque.
Secondly: if you were on an advertising or marketing team; wouldn’t you also want to have the bigly, most Tremendous and beautiful torque numbers on the box? Most of the general public are not tool enthusiasts like people that frequent this site are. They are not going to care if 240 in/lbs is the same as 20 ft/lbs. They see a bigger number, therefore, it must be stronger. If I were a marketer, I’d do the same thing.
Stuart
Inch-pounds is more traditionally used to characterize cordless drills, impact drivers, and smaller impact wrenches than foot-pounds. Foot-pounds is more used to describe impact wrenches and ratchets aimed at automotive users to fit with units traditionally used there.
If every other cordless drill Bosch and every other cordless drill competitors market are spec’ed in inch-pounds, why would this new drill be any different? If brands wanted to embellish, they’d use inch-ounces, which is a standard torque spec for lower-powered motors.
You have every right to say that 300 in-lbs is far too low for what you want a cordless drill for, but from an objective standpoint it’s a *just right* torque spec for a compact 12V-class drill.
The PS32 was spec’ed similarly to the PS31, and this new model is a little more powerful than both while also being smaller. This new model also has faster speeds.
You won’t find 18V-class power in a tool like this, but that’s never the point. That’s why I made the analogy to kitchen knives. Or, consider socket sizes. 1/4″ drive tooling is great for working in smaller spaces and when less torque is needed. 3/8″ drive tooling is a good general sizing, capable of more leverage and torque, but also often small enough for more delicate work. 1/2″ drive tooling is better for larger fasteners and tougher work. 3/4″ and beyond is for even larger fasteners and higher torque.
Are 1/4″ or 3/8″ drive tools useless because 1/2″ drive tools and sockets can deliver greater torque?
There are far more to these tools than torque.
fred
Our cabinet guys really loved the Milwaukee 2401-20 M12 power screwdriver. I checked back – and they are still in use as a go-to tool and new ones have been purchased since I retired.
I mention this because they have no bells and whistles, no brushless motor, no impact, only 175 in-lbs. of torque – but were our choice for installing cabinet hardware. I have one in my personal tool collection and really like it – not as a general purpose tool – but a choice when finesse is more important than power. When I want to drive lags – I grab my 2765-20 that Milwaukee claims can deliver 500 ft-lbs. of torque. When I want to install a batch of brass hinges – the 2401-20 is a much better choice. As the Brits say “horses for courses.”
Oleg K
It is just me or Bosch is always late to the party and is drastically overpriced to boot? I remember the times when Bosch was at the forefront of the innovation, it’s a pity what their company was reduced to in recent years… 10 or 15 years ago they were my go to guys for high quality, heavy duty demolition tools but nowadays I prefer Milwaukee, for corded and especially cordless tools. They offer all the benefits at a lower price, are more readily available and, while Bosch’s accessories of yesteryear were all made in Germany and so were the tools, nowadays, I see more and more production outsourced to China and the like, which is almost always followed by a drastic drop in quality and usability for the end-user. Like I said, pity.
Bradly
I wouldn’t say any of that is true. Well, the outsourced part, but who doesn’t these days. Bosch concentrates most of their efforts in Europe (where they are king and a very large company) and a little in certain fields such as concrete/large industrial in the Americas. Their smaller tools, like this 12v drill are perfectly suitable for the jobs 90% of the people need them for.
The competition for power equipment is super strong in the USA. Why compete for the business if money is super tight? These companies probably only have a 10% margin, if that, on the power tools they sell. Milwaukee is a marketing machine that makes up for that on volume. Their tools are decent, but to say they are much better than Bosch is not correct. All brands are pretty much equal these days. They all drive screws and drill holes with bits with the greatest of ease. Watching someone get a screw in a half a millisecond faster on youtube with one brand vs the other is pointless. In the real world, they all work. Bosch just doesn’t want to deal with low margin/high volume. There is nothing wrong with that. Their tools work very well, including the drill listed above.
BlueCrafted
Looks great! I’ll grab it when they release the bare tool. I already have plenty of batteries.