I have been thinking about the growing complexity in the cordless power tool industry. A couple of years ago, 18V vs. 20V Max (they’re really the same thing) was the biggest source of confusion. Now? There’s a lot more to it.
For the sake of this post, we’ll only be looking at 5 brands – Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, Metabo HPT, and Milwaukee.
Bosch 18V
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Bosch has been emphasizing their next-gen Core18V batteries, which are basically larger form-factor and higher capacity battery packs.
There are also a couple of Bosch “BiTurbo” tools that only achieve peak power when paired with a Core18V 8.0Ah to 12.0Ah battery.
A couple of months ago, I wondered about the types of new tools Bosch’s 12.0Ah battery might power, but haven’t seen any progress yet.
I tested one of the first Bosch tools designed around the Core18V battery, a reciprocating saw, and it provided very respectable performance, but it was paired with a compact 5-cell battery. We haven’t experienced any Bosch 18V or Core18V tools since then (not for lack of trying), and so I can’t comment about their quality or performance.
Bosch’s 18V system is fairly easy to decipher. Standard 18V batteries, compact or high capacity, for most of their tools, Core18V 4.0Ah for when you want longer runtime in a smaller package, and 8.0Ah and 12.0Ah for their highest-performing tools.
See More on Bosch 18V Cordless Power Tools
Dewalt 20V Max & FlexVolt
Dewalt FlexVolt is a little more complicated, but not really.
You have Dewalt 20V Max cordless power tools, and 60V Max FlexVolt. The FlexVolt batteries operate at 20V Max or 60V Max, depending on the tool. You can charge the batteries on any of Dewalt’s 20V Max chargers.
No, you can’t use 20V Max batteries in Dewalt FlexVolt tools, but it’s pretty straightforward.
Dewalt 20V Max batteries in 20V Max tools, FlexVolt batteries in 20V Max or FlexVolt tools. With this, you get longer runtime in the 20V Max tools, or high power and performance from FlexVolt tools.
The one-way battery compatibility makes sense.
See More on: Dewalt 20V Max Tools || FlexVolt Power Tools
Makita 18V, 18VX2, XGT 40V Max
Makita has their 18V cordless power tool lineup, and in recent years they’ve been expanding their selection of 18VX2 tools.
While not always ideal – 18VX2 tools tended to be a little bulky – Makita provided an easy and fairly simple way to squeeze added power, performance, and runtime from the same Li-ion batteries that power their 18V tools.
And now there’s Makita XGT, a 40V Max system (36V) which are due to launch in the USA in “late 2020.”
Makita has been very tight-lipped about the new XGT cordless power tool system, but from what we know so far, it’s incompatible with their 18V system. There’s an optional charging adapter that will allow 18V batteries to be charged on the XGT adapter.
So, there are 18V tools, 18VX2 tools, and the new 40V Max XGT system.
On social media, someone asked Makita when there will be 18V LXT batteries with higher capacities and next-gen Li-ion cells (21700).
Makita USA replied:
A higher amp-hour 18V battery will not get to the next level of cordless solutions for higher demand applications.
This could suggest that Makita doesn’t plan on releasing next-gen compact 4.0Ah or 8.0Ah LXT battery packs to the 18V system, which is disappointing.
The XGT system kind of makes sense, but not really. An 18V 5.0Ah battery and a 40V Max 2.5Ah battery have the same number of cells – can the XGT system really deliver “the next level of cordless solutions for higher demand applications?”
Makita will also be releasing an XGT battery that follows other brands into larger form factor cell Li-ion battery territory. The 40V Max battery requires 10 cells, which would allow for 4.0Ah charge capacity (when built with the same cells as 18V 8.0Ah batteries).
But, let’s say users demand even greater runtime. That would necessitate an XGT X2 system, or 20-cell batteries, and it doesn’t seem like this will save any size or space compared to 18VX2 tools.
Makita’s XGT system confuses me, and it’ll be months before we learn more. Makita USA has a history of declining to comment about long-term new tool release, and so it’ll be “late 2020” until any details or insights are available.
Aside from the 40V Max to 18V charging adapter, there looks to be zero compatibility between 18V LXT and 40V Max XGT systems.
See More on Makita 18V Cordless Power Tools || 18V X2 || XGT
Metabo HPT 18V and MultiVolt
Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi) has their 18V line, and new MultiVolt 36V/18V line.
Similar to the relationship between Dewalt’s 20V Max and FlexVolt system, Metabo HPT’s MultiVolt batteries are compatible with their new 36V tools and also their existing 18V tools. 18V batteries won’t work in the 36V tools.
See More on Metabo HPT 18V Cordless Power Tools
Milwaukee M18
Milwaukee’s M18 system is straightforward.
Read More: Milwaukee M18 Cordless Power Tool Battery Sizes Explained
Compact (CP)
- 1.5Ah
- 2.0Ah
- 3.0Ah – High Output
Extended Capacity (XC)
- 3.0Ah
- 4.0Ah
- 5.0Ah
- 6.0Ah – High Output
- 8.0Ah – High Output
High Demand (HD)
- 9.0Ah
- 12.0Ah – High Output
Basically, you go with the compact battery for light duty tools, XC batteries for heavier duty tools, and HD batteries for highest power tools. The compact High Output battery can be used in lieu of the XC tools for all of the core tools, and the XC High Output battery in some of the heaviest duty tools in place of the HD 9.0Ah battery. The 12.0Ah battery provides the highest power and longest runtime.
There’s a little more to keep track of, but every M18 battery fits in every tool. No, a standard XC battery isn’t the best pairing for tools optimized for the HD battery, but it’ll work. I had no trouble using an M18 5.0Ah battery with Milwaukee’s M18 Fuel cordless table saw, but HD and High Output batteries are the better choice for more taxing cuts.
Milwaukee also has their new MX FUEL cordless power equipment system, which are an entirely different class of tools that 18V tech simply cannot power.
See More on Milwaukee M18 Cordless Power Tools
Apples vs. Oranges
Comparing the different cordless power tool systems is getting more complicated.
It appears that Bosch and Milwaukee are following similar paths for their 18V systems. On one hand, users have to properly match the battery to the tool and application, but on the other hand, you have full system compatibility.
Dewalt and Metabo HPT are following similar paths, where you have higher-powered tools that require higher-voltage batteries. The batteries are one-way cross-compatible with 18V tools.
Neither approach is really better than the other, they’re just different.
Then you have Makita, with their 18V and 18VX2 tools, and now 40V Max XGT. The incompatibility between 18V and 40V Max tools and batteries is a downside, but maybe Makita can do something about this, there’s still time. Except for the optional charging adapter, XGT might be treated as a completely separate system.
Dewalt FlexVolt vs. Milwaukee M18 has been an interesting comparison, but also a difficult one, and things will only get more complex as different brands take different approaches towards higher performance “cordless jobsite” solutions.
See Also: Dewalt FlexVolt vs. Milwaukee M18 High Demand Cordless Power Tool Systems, Revisited
The “more volts are better” argument doesn’t really apply anymore, with brands – Milwaukee especially – going to great lengths to squeeze as much as they can from 18V systems. Dewalt recently refreshed some of their FlexVolt cordless power tools, and I can’t help but wonder if this was compelled by competitive performance.
Which approach to higher performance tools do you prefer or find most appealing?
If you haven’t upgraded yet, or would make different decisions, would you go with an “everything fits” system, a dual-voltage system with one-way compatibility, or two separate systems?
Stephen
I have the Bosch Core 4.0 and 6.3 batteries. They are only slightly larger than the next Ah size down on the non-Core batteries (1.5 and 4.0).
They are incredibly compact and even smaller than my Ryobi 1.5 and 3.0 batteries.
Michael
I remember when cordless tool (drill) reviews showcased how many screws the drill could drive into a 2×4 on a single charge. Pretty much one battery option pretty brand. Now it’s really a question of how much battery you can tolerate hanging off the end of the drill. Working on a ladder running in drywall screws overhead? Use this light battery. Yeah, it’ll go most of the day. Change it while you’re moving the ladder if you need to. Running in 8″ timberloks all day? Here’s a battery for that; you’ll be tired before it’s done…
Chaz R Krueger
still a better option than dragging a cord around all day
Michael
We just need more adapters!
I’m all for the bigger AH and bigger cells in 18v, due to adapters
I can use Milwaukee fuel battery in my ryobi, Makita Ridgid , DeWalt tools
But now thinking about dewalts power station and Makitas backpack.. perhaps I’ll switch to Makita batteries/adapters.
I’d def go bosche procore, but sadly no Ridgid adapter , so can’t use the shop vac without another battery brand
Mark
I have the old 18v DeWalt in the shop and all DeWalt 20v max and flexvolt on my tool trailer. I have always liked DeWalt. Having said that I do have a large collection of Milwaukee m12 tools for lighter work. I like to stick to one battery system for ease of use.
TheToolmat
Yeah with a $20 adapter off eBay, I am able to run those old 18v tools too!
Many people dump them cheap online, but grab a nailer or ? For a bargain and use the adapter.
Also one for Milwaukee and Ryobi etc… To run the different platforms (Makita too)
Just wish someone would make a Ridgid to DeWalt or Milwaukee one since their 9ah batteries are $89 every few months
John Mackay
On the subject of the $20 adapter. I tried the adapter on my 18v DeWalt nailer but it just refused to work.
Matt
The adapter problem on the nailer… i thought the same thing when i tried it. But look closely and smack into place.
It works!
I just re installed and popped it with my palm to sit in the first few times, now it installs easily.
I assume its that 3d printer tightness they talk about. After a few installs it should click in Very snug and work
Greg Prangley
any tool that has electronics in it wont work with the 18-220 v adapter. cheers.
PETE
Your googlefu needs some tune up. Check ebay – https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Dewalt-20V-MAX-XR-Li-Ion-Battery-To-Ridgid-18V-Cordless-Impact-Tools-Adapter-/264587513468
Bitchpuhlease
He was looking for the other direction, meaning ridgid battery on dewalt tool.
Matt
I saw the ridgid to dewalt adapters once, i believe they were from Australia.
But no longer selling them.
I have a few adapters and i noticed the last one i got that was Milw. To dewalt also worked the other way around.
I have used them with no problems for quite a while now.
I was trying to stay all Milwaukee, but a year later i am in dewalt – Ridgid- Milwaukee-ryobi. Crazy how that works!
PETE
Don’t test my google-fu. It’s pretty strong
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEWALT-20V-MAX-Tools-Batteries-Adaper-Work-with-AEG-RIDGID-18V-Li-ion-Battery/202751388349?hash=item2f34ecaabd:g:m2QAAOSw71pbzpzO
Mike
They do make a Ridgid to Milwaukee o run one
Think they do it for Makita or DeWalt too
Koko The Talking Ape
Speaking of which, has anybody tested these batteries as batteries, independent of any tool? Something like the number of charges they can accept without losing x amount of performance, or A-h per weight or volume?
Stuart
Testing Ah for low loads? I can and have done that for some batteries.
But to test the higher capacity batteries at loads they were designed to handle, that requires much pricier equipment.
It’s also possible to cycle-test batteries, where you have automated charge and discharge cycles.
Koko The Talking Ape
Thanks, Stuart! To your knowledge, do these different brands of battery packs perform similarly, given a similar Ah rating?
Big Richard
Tip of my hat to Metabo HPT and their MultiVolt system. I like that any of the MultiVolt tools can run off the AC adapter, unlike Flexvolt where only the miter saw utilizes an AC adapter.
Also Metabo HPT is the only cordless 10″ table saw out there. And personally I like that they went with a 45lb 10″ miter saw, rather than a 55lb 12″ miter saw like DeWalt. Portability matters with cordless, imo.
Chuck
Milwaukee has one
Big Richard
Yes, Milwaukee does have a 10″ cordless miter, but it was not designed around their HO battery system, so it is not quite on par. Also, it is not a great saw. I have heard that their new 12″ is better, but haven’t used it yet.
TheToolmat
The NEW 12 inch bare tool red miter $549 at acme NO TAX FOR MANY, FREE SHIPPING, Thats a DEAL !
Saw this on the toolboss deals videos on YouTube.
HD doesn’t even have it yet..
KentH
The Milwaukee is most certainly designed around their HO batteries. When you purchase with a battery it comes with the 12ah HD battery. Plus, it has their one-key system incorporated into the tool.
Big Richard
Milwaukee’s 12″ miter saw and 8 1/4″ table saw are designed around the HO system. The 10″ miter was not. That was designed around the HD 9.0 battery. Don’t take my word for it, check it out.
Matt
My table-saw came with two 12 ah HD batteries.
I believe it said in their website to utilize the HD vs the HO.
Although it can be pushed by any mw battery, i prefer the 12’s due to the weight it adds to stability of the saw when in use.
Big Richard
@Matt, The 12.0 HD batteries are HO. Scan above to see the article, where it defines the HO batteries. There are 4 HO batteries.
– CP 3.0
– XC 6.0
– XC 8.0
– HD 12.0
I’ll try this more time, the 12″ miter saw and 8 1/4″ table saw were designed around the HO battery system. In other words, they achieve their maximum performance using the HO batteries. Tools that were not designed around the HO system, like the 10″ miter saw that I was originally referring to, do not benefit (at least not nearly as much) from the HO battery system.
Josh
With about 20 years under my belt as a contractor I have tried them all. I now run the full Metabo HPT tool line and I’ve got to say that they blow everything out of the water except possibly the Dewalt flexvolt which is quite comparable. However the 10 inch chop saw and 10 inch table saw battery powered (or corded If you so chose which is a step above the rest) the ladder of the two being made by no other company are hands down the best cordless tools on the planet currently and complimented by all the other great powerful and quite versatile tools. I will stay with them as long as they make tools. So impressed.
Jp
Milwaukee does not have a 10 inch table saw, it’s smaller and it does not plug in. Unless they came up with something within the last month. Metabo hpt is the only one and it is a very very nice tool,as are all their others.
Jp
Table saw, not miter. Metabo hpt is the only cordless 10″ table saw on the market…. And it’s optional corded unlike Milwaukee.
Corey Moore
If I recall, that 10″ table saw is metabo proper, not metabo htp (Hitachi) and can’t be run on metabo htp batteries.
MattJ
https://www.toolbarn.com/metabo-hpt-c3610drjq4m.html/?gclid=CjwKCAiA4Y7yBRB8EiwADV1haR6ggXl6XBMKmwml4sW997kbiA4tIKsBMoaJC6hFIHyIPhDYkCkiNhoCNBQQAvD_BwE
Like all things Metabo HPT, it is confusing. It is not a Metabo proper product. It is Metabo HPT. It will only run on Metabo HPT 36V FlexVolt batteries (or the AC plug in adapter), and it will not accept Metabo HPT batteries.
Perhaps Metabo (proper) has something else, but I haven’t seen it. I think this is the saw Big Richard was referencing.
MattJ
Edit — It will not accept Metabo HPT 18V batteries.
Very similar to FlexVolt tools not accepting 20V Max batteries.
Corey Moore
I see I had it backwards, my apologies. Honestly, I had forgotten that the thing existed until it was just mentioned. I never surmised Hitachi as near a premium brand, but Metabo HTP has some damn impressive offerings. Seems to have been a very beneficial acquisition on both sides.
Big Richard
Same here, but they really have stepped it up as of late. Their MultiVolt recip saw may be one of the best (although heaviest) I’ve ever used. And the fact that you can run it on the AC adapter if needed, makes it all the more desirable. The stuff ain’t cheap though.
MattJ
They were a weird brand, even back when it was just Hitachi. Always seemed to me like 60-70% of their tools were DIY and entry level stuff made to compete with the likes of Ryobi — for example, Metabo HPT still has the cheapest widely available 10″ Miter saw of any mainstream brand — but they also made some stuff on par with top of the line stuff from Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee (e.g. — larger table saws, Triple Hammer Impact Driver, MultiVolt Hammer drill, etc.)
As I don’t believe they have any sister companies like B&D, Ryobi, Ridgid, Craftsman, etc. in which to stratify their products, I guess it makes some sense that they make everything from entry to professional quality.
Jp
No it is Metabo hpt mutivolt 36v system. It is also the only 10 inch cordless table saw and it is truly phenomenal. Nothing else like it.
Chris
Where’s the article on 12v systems 😛
Wow, it’s been quite a while since I’ve commented on TG. I’ve been reading articles, just haven’t felt inclined to add my thoughts.
Stuart
Well, there’s Milwaukee, and everyone else. =)
Not much has been changing in the 12V landscape. DeWalt finally picked up interest and launched new drills, drivers, and saws, but it’s unclear if the momentum will continue.
Perry
I have to disagree Stuart, Skil has expanded their 12v line dramatically. The reviews I’ve read have all been overwhelmingly positive
Skye A Cohen
I use milwuakee but it seems like Makita is the most popular around, at least in my corner of the world. I’ve used Makita milwuakee and DeWalt a lot, these days I pretty much never see bosch or metabo unless they’re old. I prefer milwuakee just because they have some tools in the lineup that I like a lot, the worm drive style saw, the 7.25in double bevel chop saw, the super hawg and the hackzall. I also think they have the best impact driver of the bunch but I will say that of teal vs yellow vs red they’re all great we’re lucky to have a lot of nice tools to choose from, it wasn’t always this way
Scott taylor
I love the Ridgid stuff. Shame to not see it with octane stuff. The stealth driver and the mega max with octane batteries rock. Home depot had the max with 5ah batteries bonus pack reduced 50% a couple weeks ago so i got the sds drill and sawsall attachment. The max sawsall is almost a match for my 2008 ridgid 12amp, which was my first ridgid tool and a true beast. I still use it to cut crossties using a 12 inch pruning blade
TheToolmat
Yeah I regret not getting that MegaMax with the sawzsall attachment for those prices.
Will be on the lookout for that again, it usually rolls back around!
Jp
Metabo hpt all the way, Dewalt as a second choice because of versatility of tools
Caffeine
Im a Dewalt guy personally, just because of particular tools other brands didnt offer at the time.
Theres a lot of misinformation and talking down on competitors in the tool industry and it really sucks, whatever brand you choose, they pretty much all have great things to offer and its competition that drives them all to be better.
Ive been on some strange worksites where the tradies all have a pack mentality about tool brands, way ive always seen it is who really cares, you get the job done, you do it well, what does it matter what you use to get there? Rock up with a ryobi kit on an industrial site, I dont care, as long as you do your job haha.
Clifford Alloway
Well said, we have mostly bosch and flex volt. No shame in using any of them. Even the worst pro brand is so much better than what was around 15 years ago it’s not even funny. we are blessed to have the competition in that industry as they make it better for all.
Robert Adkins
Some probably use the same tools on the job site so they can borrow batteries and chargers. 🙂
JakeJ
I’d say, as far as batteries go, Bosch. (I still have a few around made in 2011, which still take a charge!). It’s just such a damn shame they lag so far behind on what tools they offer to use them in, especially regarding the ProCore ones.
Clifford Alloway
We have some bosch batteries that are prolly 12 years or older that still charge, but I handed them down to my 7 y.o. son to use. Last year. Their stuff does last but it’s a shame they don’t seem to care about competing in the cordless market.
Cr8on
I “drew the line” at one battery platform, then said ” that’s it” when I started a 2nd, and now I’m in 3 battery ecosystems. I can see myself at some point adding DeWalt’s flexvolt stuff when the need arises, since it’s a natural path for me. I’d like to see some Ridgid octane stuff hit the higher tier tools it’s sister Milwaukee does.
Of the 5 brands you mentioned I don’t see Bosch really punching above their weight like the rest. I really think Bosch should be the leader, with all the high quality appliances, auto parts, and everything else they dip their hands in you’d think their engineering departments would get together. Don’t get me wrong, every Bosch tool I’ve used (corded) have been excellent, if not better, than others, but cordless… Meh.
Madnyss
XGT has been released in japan. Only interesting product is the drill. Smaller and more powerful. 150Nm, 2600 rpm hi, 650 rpm low, Electronic Clutch, Active Force Sensing.
https://www.makita.co.jp/product/40vmax_series/hp001grdx/hp001grdx_j_view.pdf
But … looks like 40V 2.5Ah is still using 18650 due to it being smaller than the 4Ah. I like the look of the drill but it appears platform is subpar. No 15 cell packs for larger tools eg table saw, drop saw, ope, sds max or XGT x2 so far and no newer 6/8Ah High output or 4Ah slims for 18v. No backwards compatibility which should be possible.
Worst deadend for anyone owning 18v platform as all top of line products will most likely be 40v only like this new drill.
Jim
I started with ryobi, went to ridgid because i felt like the quality was as good as dewalt for a much better price. Had batteries that sat in the garage all winter at sub zero temps then put them in a tool come spring and the battery still had almost a full charge and went right to work. Then they got the “octane” battery. Those stupid things lose charge sitting for a week in fairly mild temps. Got me thinking about moving to dewalt after all.
E'Ski
I jump on Ridgid Octane platform, I’m actually impressed. Most of the carpenters I work with are on the Milwaukee line. And I understand why, their latest version of the 18 guage finish nailer is the best ever made. Their drills are compact and indestructible. All that being said, the Octane line is keeping up with the Milwaukee’s just fine, in some cases better. Ridgid’s Cordless vacuum has been one of the most convenient tools for my jobs.
Roger
DeWalt FLEXVOLT, with little to no TSA harassment, can…
FLY
JakeJ
Is that true with the Flexvolt batteries?? I fly international with tools/batteries often and it can be a major hassle. Last time i had a bosch 12ah ProCore and they just about confiscated it from me. Eventually i put the battery on one of the usb charger devices and put tape over the on/off switch and that appeased them enough to let me keep it. They don’t seem to have an issue with the smaller batteries.
Big Richard
Yup, the red little cap thingy that comes on Flexvolt battery pack separates each bank of cells, effectively turning it into 3 batteries instead of one. Even with the largest 12Ah pack, it ends up as 3 80Wh batteries, all below the 100Wh limit. You need airline approval for batteries over 100Wh.
JakeJ
Thanks. I know the ones you’re referring to. Can’t recall if mine came with one of those on them when brand new. If so, I would ve been in such a rush to throw the battery on the charger , most likely i just chucked it back in the box and threw it away.
Adam
I’ve started buying Milwaukee cordless, I like there tools, but makita’s new XGT looks good , a XGT Rear handle worm drive saw would be good, I don’t like makita’s 18 volt two battery system , and Dewalt flexvolt, I like some of there tools.
Fergal
For me bosch is the best and the most reliable only downside is that there isn’t enough tools to pick from but the battery is by far the best. I’ve had dewalt and Milwaukee tools build quality not as good as bosch and battery lifetime nowhere close to bosch. But on the other hand variety of tools way ahead of bosch.
Toolfreak
I prefer the simplicity of the Bosch/Milwaukee 18V, and given the position of the brands in the pro tool market, I’d say simple is pretty popular with consumers.
That said, I do like the innovation of the various systems that allow a higher voltage battery to be used in 18V tools and charged on 18V chargers. It’s great that they went with that option instead of having unique batteries and chargers for every single higher voltage system, which would lead to a lot of different batteries and chargers depending on what higher voltage tools you want.
Thecarpenter1
I’ve been using Makita cordless since 7.2 and 9.6 volt back in the 1990’s.
Love the tools, balance, grip feel and power have served me well.
The new 12 volt line is nice in the weight to power ratio.
I’m an old dog not likely to invest in a new product line but the Dewalt and Ridgid appear to have the best value equation.
Makita introducing a totally new battery system will cost them loyal users before they gain new ones.
Most of the young guy’s I’m working with use Milwaukee or Ridgid.
Flotsam
This article should have included Ridgid. I would have like an explanation of the difference between the standard 18v batteries and the blue label Octane batteries and their interchangeability.
Also i thought there was something about Metabo (or is it Metabo HPT) using a battery that is interchangeable between multiple brands. A concept I know a number of users have been railing for years about.
I can also see the usefulness of an article addressing the 12v side of things. There were new products by DeWalt & Makita (maybe Metabo) recently for instance and of course Milwaukee M12 is the big dog. It would be an interesting article.
Ken
When Milwaukee obsoleted their old V18 line I switched to Dewalt and I have been very happy. I now own 12 Dewalt 20v max tools and 5 Flexvolt tools.
However, I am eventually added back in Milwaukee M12 tools because there are so many useful ones that nobody else offers. The cutoff tool, ratchets, under hood light, soldering iron, strong impacts, and now the die grinders. I race and I find myself using the M12 line all the time at the track. Small, powerful, useful for automotive work.
TheToolmat
Yeah I never thought I wanted or would buy any of the M12 tools, now the driver sits out and gets used about 98% of the time…I use off brand batteries and they are strong and actually work great!
Grabbed a bit holder that attached to it, they actual 3d build them with your lettering of choice on them, found that guy on Instagram, but the driver has completed every job I have thrown at it.
SDI SHOP
We are a large contractor, we used DeWalt for years until the 60 volt line came out and we went with Makita as the equipment Manager I have to look at not only battery life but tool performance.
I tested out many other tool brands before the switch to Malita we found that Makita had some of the best battery life for size and AH but also our repair cost and down time on tools went down by 35% we purchase only 5.0AH batteries we find that is the best system for us.
PlaneGrain
Home Depot- M18 battery starter kit. Includes HD 9.0, XC 5.0, charger, tool bag($199.00). Not in any stores near me, available online.
PlaneGrain
He reviews on this kit(198 reviews- all 5 stars). But Acme tools on the HD 9.0 battery alone is only 1.8 stars out of 5. One review mentioned the HD 9.0 has a poor warranty. Confusing reviews.
TheToolmat
Poor warranty? Aren’t their batteries all 3years?
Seems to be the industry standard.
Ihave only had one issue with a Milwaukee tool, my Tablesaw had a wonky
Fence clip after a year, we couldn’t figure it out on the telephone, which by the way the guy was awesome, had the Tablesaw right in front of him and we tried to solve the problem, but it was a mystery, so he said ok, and just sent me a new fence, works great, no cost, no hassle, really appreciated that. (Just referencing my warranty experience, they seem to have a good Dept to deal with problems)
Andrew
The 9ah and 12ah batteries have slightly different warranty processes because of their watt hours. You just have to wait for Milwaukee to ship you a box instead of just dropping it off at FedEx
Art
A way to look at battery voltage is from the perspective of power. Power is volts * amps. So if you are designing a tool that needs to dissipate a certain amount of power to function properly the lower the battery voltage the more current required for a certain target power. That means you have to increase conductor sizes in the tool and motor to handle that current. And that makes the tool heavier and possibly larger.
This is why the AC system on airplanes is 400Hz instead of 60Hz. Smaller and lighter transformers and motors.
There is probably another trade-off where upping the battery voltage indefinitely results in other losses that come into play but I don’t know that.
Wayne R.
Computers, every type of media device, phones, tablets, GPS stuff, and now battery-powered tools join the club where, at some point, it gets tempting or even required to just chuck everything you have and start over.
Most of the stuff in my list above is life-limited due to software “epochs”, but batteries have a new angle. Which I find really dumb – older equipment might function just fine, but it’s too hard/expensive to “fix” most worn out batteries and at some point, you just can’t get quality replacements. Stop in at any pawn shop to see the lineups of tools with life left in them but no batteries anywhere…
I’m sure glad I don’t have to deal with this on a large scale; it’d be maddening.
fred
Over my working life – the overwhelming preponderance of the small power tools that I bought were for a business. Most (depending on what our accountants advised) were expensed within the year that they were bought. A few (usually with first cost >=$500) were put on depreciation schedules to be amortized over time.
For my personal collection – the sad reality is that most of the cordless tools that I own may not be worth passing down to the next generation and almost certainly not to my grand children. The same might not be said for some of my corded stationary and bench-top machinery – which with some TLC should have useful lives well into the future. Furthermore, many of my hand tools (like Stanley planes passed to me from 2 to 3 generations back) should be viable for generations to come.
My take on all of this – is that we should buy what makes us productive and happy right now – and not obsess over when the next paradigm shift in battery technology will obsolete what we have.
Diplomatic Immunity
This is why I specifically splurge when it comes to non-powered hand tools. A great hand saw or screwdriver is still going to a great handsaw or screwdriver 40 years from now if not abused.
Perry
I’ve been a makita guy for over 20 years, but if this new XGT line ends up being more of a replacement with no compatibility to their 18v line up, it will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and I’ll move over to dewalt. Makita tools have been great, but they are slow to innovate in the carpentry arena. No cordless table saw, compressor or framing nailer, and they dont have much in the way of finish nailers either. I like the ergonomics and the trigger controls in many drills have more steps in them which gives better control, but if I have to buy into another lineup, why not buy into one that has everything I need?
Andrew
Agreed. Of course I have been on Makita for years for not even having basic things like good lights and now my only real complaint is their cordless nailers are trash while others only get better. Nothing keeping you from two batteries. I like Makita drills and saws, everything else I could take it or leave it.
Shawn Chambers
I’m not a professional contractor. So making sure that I have all-day batteries in my drill/driver isn’t really an issue for me. I went with DeWalt as they had a line-up that is just shy of Millwaukee’s professional tools, yet seems to go further into the consumer line of tools. (i.e…. they had 2 string trimmers that both were half the price of Milwaukee’s when I needed to buy one).
kg
I’ve been slowly adding M18 and M12 as needed and been quite happy with each to far. If anything, I wish they’d fill in some of the missing tools faster (looking at you track saw) though I’m encouraged to see the router and 12″ miter finally brought to market. I appreciate the “everything fits” design for the flexibility to make conscious trade offs either when needed or when it just doesn’t matter.
There’s one thing in the M18 system that doesn’t seem straightforward to me.
6.0Ah – High Output – 5.46″ x 3.30″ x 3.22″ – 2.30 lbs
8.0Ah – High Output – 5.46″ x 3.30″ x 3.22″ – 2.33 lbs
With nearly identical physical dimensions and output, is there any rational reason to buy (or make) the 6ah HO over the 8ah HO, with its longer runtime, other than price?
(Lifted the cell setup from a past TG post), it seems like the only difference is the ah/density of the cells used.
6.0Ah: 10 x 3.0Ah cells in 5×2 series-parallel, 21700
8.0Ah: 10 x 4.0Ah cells in 5×2 series-parallel, 21700
Doug N
The 6.0 was released simultaneously with the 12.0 and both were described as providing the same power to the highest current draw tools. The 8.0 was released later and doesn’t output quite as much power as the other two, although it may not be noticeable in most applications.
Big Richard
Doug, that is not correct. The 8.0 and 12.0 use the exact same cells (10 Samsung 40Ts and 15 Samsung 40Ts, respectively). The 6.0 uses 10 Samsung 30Ts. Both are 21700 cells rated at 35 amps continuous discharge. They will all perform essentially the same. The difference is price. Batteries using the 40Ts tend to be more expensive.
Oflannabhra
Makita’s XGT gets even more confusing, with reports that there will be 64V batteries as well.
http://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/15423-makita-behind-on-batteries/page/2/
James
I think initial indications is that this is not XGT perse, but a separate yet to be released platform. It will presumably incorporate much of the technology associated with XGT though.
Curt
I work in a lead and zinc mine in Alaska. The slurry gets on the floor very often.
At this job if a battery tool lasts one year it’s way beyond expectations. While
walking through a module one day I saw a little yellow buried in the slurry. I
dug it out and it was a 1/2 inch impact. Older model, as it had the old battery.
This thing was packed with lead and zinc concentrate. I pressure washed it and
let it dry. I have been using this Dewalt tool for about three years now with no problems. This is why I like Dewalt. They last like I don’t know how.
Skye A Cohen
Some of the brushed tools were like that but brushless use too many electronics for that kind of longevity, the spin faster and hit harder though, performance is so much better that they’re worth it but it’s definitely true that older brushed tools last longer
Martin
I am wondering if theres any word on Dewalt coming out with a new compact 20 volt compact vaccum cleaner
Martin
Like the one Milwaukee has.
David
I DIY. I’ve had a cordless drill since 1984 for work in high school. Back then it was makita nicd. That’s the only cordless tool I ever had or needed (I thought). I bought a corded replacement in about 2000 – a ten pound dewalt whose original nimh died in about 2009 and I bought Li replacements which still work fine to this day. It’ll do anything. Then I started replacing outlets and switches in my house and got blisters using hand tools day one. I started with the lightest, smallest, cheapest drill I could buy which is the 12 brushed Milwaukee for $100 with two batteries and a charger and a bag. That was my gateway tool. Next is the 12v fuel hakzall. Then finally a brushless drill/impact driver combo, oscillating tool, and circular saw. The oscillating tool will go through every battery I have in maybe two hours. Everything else I’ve never run out of a single charge. Perfect homeowner DIY.
Jp
Metabo hpt 10″ table saw is one of a kind as well as its astonishing farming nailer. Unlike Dewalts framing nailer it is not a flywheel style and uses compression and really sinks nails in anything (including LVL beams). I did see something showing Milwaukee has a framing nailer coming out that looks pretty impressive as well. I’ll be curious to test it out.
As of now though the power of my Metabo hpt line seems to outperform my colleagues lines of competitor tools.
Doug N
The 8.0 and 12.0 batteries use the same 40T cells, but that doesn’t mean the overall batteries perform the same. Since there are 15 cells in the larger pack, each cell outputs fewer amps than the smaller packs. Which is why the 6.0 high output batteries use Samsung 30T cells instead. The 30T cells outperform the 40T at high currents, at the expense of run time.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
Big Richard
The 6.0 batteries use Samsung 30T cells because the 30Ts are 3000mAh cells. Not because they “outperform the 40T”. And the 40Ts are 4000mAh, which is why they are used in the 8.0 and 12.0.
Jp
The new adapters they make to use any battery with any tool are pretty helpful, you can get just about anything, Dewalt battery on Milwaukee tools, porter cable battery on makita tools etc. Just about anything you can think of within the same perimeters.
https://youtu.be/MMssklzoBAk
CountyCork
Bosch may not have the the diversity of tools as other brands but to me there newest batteries are hands down the best built. I love that they are proud to show a full breakdown of their batteries and how they are put together. The precision and engineering is a pleasure to see openly. I think they advertise best build battery platform on the planet. I agree and there current 8.0 is a beast and I believe a 12 is coming this year.
Kp
The bosch battery is well designed, inside and outside, not bulky. The Bosch makes all the tools I ever need, 230V + 18V and more.
Hopefully bosch will keep the current line and not waste money on tools that no one really needs. They can still make better tools and listen
24/18V bosch user since 2000.
Robert Adkins
I just don’t care for large, heavy, expensive, high capacity batteries. I rather have 2 5ah batteries than a 10ah battery. It’s not that big of a deal to swap batteries when they get low. Real battery eaters like lawnmowers, chain saws, leaf blowers, and weed trimmers could have ports for 2 batteries, as some already have. If a 5ah battery dies or is lost, it’s not a disaster. If I owned a 48v, 60v, 0r 80v battery and it went out, it would ruin my whole cordless experience. My favorite batteries are DeWalt compact 3ah. I’m hearing talk about a compact 5ah battery, which would be perfect for my weed eater and 7-1/4 saw. 5ah is my limit, any larger is too expensive for consummables.
Big Richard
The Dewalt 6Ah DCB206s can be found at a reasonable price of $130 for a 2-pk (a little over $10/Ah), or even less on eBay. It is a bit physically larger than the 5Ah DCB205, but its higher discharge 21700 cells really make a difference in high demand tools like a grinder, recip/circ/miter saw, or any OPE vs the 205’s 18650 cells. For compact tools, drills/impacts, or lights/radios I’m with you that the 5Ah is the ideal size and bang for your buck.
Michael
Then look into bosche procore, they have compact batteries better than llot of the higher ah battery brands due to the use of bigger cells
Michael
My lawn mower is. Yardforce 120v dual port
Two 2.5ah batteries
Yields. 600WH and only 30 min recharge per battery.
chris w
I’m a huge makita fan, but they seems to be falling behind in a few departments they also lack marketing where I’m at in florida its hard to even find makita tools unless its whatever hone depot might have which is not much. now I’m looking forward to the xgt line but I’m not paying around 400 bucks for an impact driver kit.