Bosch just wrapped up their virtual media event, and there are some interesting new tools on the way, many of which we already posted introductory content for here on ToolGuyd.
Bosch Profactor, their next generation of cordless power tools product family was the spotlight of the event.
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One of the things they said was about how they don’t want users to have to juggle multiple cordless power tool battery platforms on the jobsite.
That’s a good user-friendly goal, for one battery to fit all tools.
The quote isn’t exact, until I can review a recording of the virtual event, but “the same battery that powers your FREAK” can also work with the new Profactor tools.
The 4Ah CORE18V battery should be considered as “a spare tire to help you finish the job.” Bosch recommends their Profactor batteries to be used with Profactor tools.
The mention of the compact 4Ah as being akin to a “spare tire,” used in a pinch if needed, was repeated at the end of the segment.
The 12Ah battery is a “Profactor exclusive,” and the language suggested it’s only compatible with Profactor tools.
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Profactor batteries are recommended for use with Profactor tools, as it unlocks their top performance.
The Bosch Profactor cordless power tools can be used with all of their 18V batteries, but it was emphasized that these tools are really optimized for the newer breed of higher performing CORE18V and Profactor batteries.
They repeated again that the 12Ah Profactor battery is exclusively for Profactor tools. This is “not a battery for your FREAK,” due to the size and weight.
The sweet spot is said to be the 8Ah Profactor battery.
From all this, it seems that users don’t have to juggle multiple battery systems, if they’re willing to fully upgrade to the newer Bosch CORE18V and Profactor batteries.
Otherwise, if you’ve got some Bosch 18V batteries that aren’t ideally recommended for the Profactor tools, and others that are like a “spare tire,” and then a Profactor-exclusive high capacity battery that Bosch suggests won’t work with their non-Profactor tools, won’t all that require some juggling and conscious user attention?
The reality is that you can’t just power any 18V cordless power tool with any 18V battery, but I got the feeling that Bosch was emphasizing their benefit over competing systems.
I can see why Bosch might emphasize “one platform” around CORE18V, but what about18V SlimPack and FatPack batteries, or the Profactor-exclusive 12Ah battery? Bosch isn’t moving entirely to CORE18V batteries, are they?
Bosch came out with a new 18V brushless FREAK impact kit in 2020, and also a new 18V brushless drill/driver. Those tools are kitted with 2.0Ah SlimPack batteries. Can you use that battery in Profactor tools? It was suggested that such a pairing would be less than ideal and maybe even recommended against. It was also suggested that the 12Ah Profactor-exclusive battery wouldn’t work here. Sure, the ergonomics would be way off, but does this mean it wouldn’t work in a pinch?
There are some compact tools, such as LED worklights, where a higher capacity battery provides runtime benefits without being burdensome. Will the 12Ah Profactor-exclusive battery not work here? Why?
Bosch discussed new ECO mode features that extend runtime, and they compared it to the automatic ECO mode that’s available in a lot of cars these days. This is an interesting feature that I was hoping to learn more about.
The runtime-extending effect makes sense, but I got the sense that the ECO mode isn’t automatic in these tools.
Some cars have a 6-cylinder engine that switches to a 4-cylinder mode to maximize gas mileage when full power isn’t needed. Other cars have engines that essentially turn off at red lights and when idling, to avoid burning gas when it’s not needed. There are these and other gas mileage-extending features in most modern cars.
But here, it’s not clear as to whether or not the ECO mode is a user-selectable option or if it’s toggled via automatic-sensing. Either way, is this a feature that users would be happy to pay a bigger premium for?
I had hoped for greater insights from the presentation. For example, Bosch touted that their cordless track saw is more compact that a competitor’s 2-battery system, but they didn’t talk about how it achieved this – with a smaller blade size – or the big question I was looking for – why the smaller blade size?
The virtual media event didn’t have any real product demonstrations, meaning there wasn’t any footage of the tools in action or compared against competing products.
Bosch says they didn’t want to follow competitors’ leads, but isn’t that what they did here? Milwaukee has M18 Fuel tools that work best with their High Output batteries, and Dewalt also has 20V Max PowerDetect tools that work better with their higher capacity batteries. There’s also Dewalt FlexVolt.
If the Bosch 12Ah Profactor Exclusive battery is in fact exclusive to Profactor tools, that’s unfortunate, but I can understand why. Milwaukee’s largest M18 batteries don’t fit all of their tools, but they’ve upgraded most to allow for it. Bosch might not want or be able to do that, and so maybe it’s easier to make the larger 12Ah battery exclusive to new Profactor tools.
The approach Dewalt has taken, their Flexvolt batteries can work with 20V Max cordless power tools, but 20V Max batteries won’t work with FlexVolt cordless power tools. This means that there are no “spare tire-like” batteries to limp through tasks, allowing FlexVolt tools to be designed exclusively around FlexVolt batteries.
Let me say this – the Bosch Profactor system of next-generation higher powered cordless power tools is interesting and definitely welcome. I wish I understood their approach a bit better, but maybe that just takes time.
Maybe now that they’ve officially launched the Profactor system, Bosch will be able to answering some of the questions I’ve asked and some new ones that have come up.
What questions do YOU have about the Bosch Profactor system?
Here’s some of our other Bosch Profactor tool coverage:
Bosch Profactor “Hitman” Rotary Hammer w/ Biturbo Tech & Powered by Core18V
Also Launching Soon:
New Bosch Laser Distance Measuring Tools – Red and GREEN! (GLM 50-27 C)
LCLA_Official
So the TL;DR I’m getting from this post is,”DeWalt & Milwaukee have already figured this out and Bosch is both late to the party and annoyingly cagey at the same time.”
Seriously though, I read this site almost daily because it is the best on the internet. I can literally hear your frustration in every recent post about Bosch. I know why you still compose said posts, but I also don’t because they clearly want to push content elsewhere.
The fact that Bosch has repeatedly ignored and/or snubbed you on information and seems to have no real urgency to push new tools to the N. American market is enough for me to assume that the company doesn’t have its shit together compared to SBD, TTI, & others. That may be fine for some people, but for me that means I’m sticking to the 20V Max/M18/M12 cordless platforms I already use and staying the hell away from Bosch.
Stuart
Not quite, the TL;DR is “I don’t get it, someone please explain it to me in non-marketing terms.” This is to Bosch as much as it is to readers.
“Better late than never” means the timing of these launches won’t really matter 5 years from now.
They had a virtual media event, which they didn’t have to do, and I was giving a virtual ticket, which they weren’t obligated to extend. Traditionally, I tend to share early thoughts immediately after an event, and then sort through information that follows.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-nps19-new-tool-show-evening-update/
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-high-output-cordless-power-tool-tech/
Here, my expectations were built-up, but I didn’t learn the types of things I was expecting to. There was value in the effort that went into their presentations, I was just expecting a little more meat.
I have more questions than answers right now, but I also fully expect Bosch to address and answer at least some of them.
CountyCork
If you could find out when this (GDS18V-740N) will be available for pre-order that would great. Is the existing 8.0 any different than the profactor 8.0? I used that with their led lights all the time without any issues. I don’t think I would want to use the 12 ah battery for any of my existing tools because of weight but the possibility for the led lights would be nice.
Stuart
Amazon has it up now – https://www.amazon.com/PROFACTOR-GDS18V-740N-Impact-Wrench-Friction/dp/B08VMK23BK/?tag=toolguyd-20 but no ETA.
The 1/2″ impact might not be in the first wave.
Maybe press materials (assuming there will be press materials) should have complete ETAs for all the tools.
I included most of them here: https://toolguyd.com/bosch-profactor-cordless-power-tools-prices-012021/
They haven’t said whether the new 8Ah Profactor battery is any different than the CORE18V 8Ah battery. It looks a little different, but the changes might only be cosmetic.
CountyCork
Cool was able to order it’s just a matter of when it.becomes available. Thank you for the link!
Jim Felt
Glad you’ve persevered through their North American trail of marketing tears.
Whoa. Maybe they’ve got a German to English translation saboteur in their MarCom area? Anything’s possible.
I’ve got a bunch of their 12V and CORE18V 6.3 Ah equipped tools and LED lights and honestly I’m not bothering to follow them into the second decade of this millennium. Too many Red (and others) introductions/innovations to bother.
They still do, however, have very good after sale followthrough.
JoeM
Translation Via Humour:
Bosch: “Good News, Everyone! We’re doing this new thing!”
Everyone: “…What?…”
B: “Pardon?”
E: “…WHAT is this NEW Thing you’re doing?…”
B: “…Tools!… And a BATTERY!!! Isn’t it wonderful?” *Swoons Over Their Own Products*
E: “Uh… About all we can see is that you’ve adopted the same form factor and features of-”
B: “SSHHH!!! ….For Legal Reasons we cannot mention them… Nor can we acknowledge their existence… Or be in the same room… The Judge was very mean…”
E: “…Right… Bosch? You know you’re allowed to go this direction WITHOUT any of us questioning if you-”
B: “WE DIDN’T!! We can’t mention it, we can only say that we’ve redesigned a new line of tools to work with-”
E: “…A New Battery Platform… Yes… We see that… What can yours do that-”
B: “That’s all we can say! The new Profactor Line is EXACTLY what you need! It will even work with The Freak! …For a little while anyways… It’s not ideal… But it really works!”
E: “Well… Yeah… We’ve seen it work on-”
B: “That’ll be all for today! Thank you for coming to our reveal party!”
E: “…I’m sorry, does anyone know what just happened?”
Aaron
“We’ve been breaking all our promises to north american customers for the past 5 years, but today we have a new set of bigger and more confusing promises!”
Aaron
also lowes has some bosch rotohammers on clearance. not sure if that’s good or bad. discretionary tool budget is shot and storage space is becoming a problem otherwise I’d have a couple new tools for a trade I don’t do.
Tom D
I’m more confused than before.
I’m a simple man – I want one battery I don’t have to think about – and “bigger or smaller” being the only thought.
Maybe some M18 tools don’t work as well with some batteries but I’ve never noticed it. Having to keep various “compatible but not optimal” in my head would be annoying.
Stuart
Based on how the emphasized things, the 8Ah battery is the new one-battery-user recommendation.
Jorn
Bosch makes some really good power tools and I really enjoy the ones that I have.
However, it seems that they’re really getting outclassed in the marketing and communications department.
joseph
My big question for Bosch is: given how good and diverse the other big brand to lines are, why should I pick Bosch?
I ask because I am interested in getting some 18v+ tools but there isn’t anything about them that seems better than dewalt or milwaukee. Even HPT has the plug in adapter that makes me consider them.
Am I missing something here?
Stephen
I guess it depends on your use case. If I were a tradesman, I feel like other brands are a better value. For sure if you want a large variety of tools, you are better off with other brands.
I started into the Bosch 18V platform about 4 years ago and now have a small collection. I picked Bosch because of the perceived refinement and quality. Their tools certainly don’t winning many spec sheet battles. I am a DIY homeowner.
Bosch does have some bright spots but it’s still a hard sell as a platform overall.
JoeM
Basic Woodworking is where Bosch shines. German Engineering through and through. They’re Endurance tools, sure, but they handle working with Oak, Maple, Mahogany, and Birch with a precision you don’t QUITE see with the Trades brands.
You also have to put them on a parallel with their OTHER EU oriented competitor. Makita. Since they’re both EU-Centric brands, they’re not putting themselves up against DeWALT or Milwaukee on a regular basis. It just happens that the North American releases of both brands’ tools are held up against them. But that isn’t fair.
DeWALT and Milwaukee are so intensely at battle in the Americas, they might as well be considered the same brand. I don’t mean they have no differences, I mean they cover Construction and Trades so directly, that where one drops off any coverage, the other picks up in spades. The CREW building a building will be doing it with DeWALT tools, but when they bring in “The Plumbing Guy” or “The Electrical Pro” or “That Weirdo Who Just Knows Where Problems Are”… THAT Pro is probably equipped with Milwaukee tools. Yin and Yang for construction and maintenance en masse.
Similarly… The EU has Bosch and Makita. Only the point at which one ends, and the other begins, is significantly more drastic. Makita is definitely used in the EU for construction and major construction projects… but Bosch is used more for CRAFTSMEN rather than TRADES. It doesn’t translate well in the same market as the Americas. In which case, it’s often true that Makita is the third leg in the DeWALT/Milwaukee situation. But they still don’t form a Tripod.
The other brands out there, honestly aren’t under the kind of direct loggerheads that these brands are with eachother. So, companies like MetaboHPT, Ridgid, even Skil… Love them or leave them, they have people who swear by them alone, and there’s nothing to hold up and say “This one’s better”… because it’s not about what “Team” you’re on with the other brands. It’s about what the individual does with them.
Mind you, you do get forced ONTO a team when they’re the only ones that make a specific tool. I believe Ridgid has a standard for pipe thread cutters, and so… If you don’t want to go to Ridgid for the actual Pipe Thread Cutter MACHINE, then both Milwaukee and DeWALT make hand-held thread cutters that do take the Ridgid cutting heads… Though they do make their own as well, they’re pretty well the same as the Ridgid ones. So if you need to cut threads on pipe, you really are stuck with only 3 options. Ridgid, DeWALT, and Milwaukee. And there are many situations where that is the case with DeWALT and Milwaukee, or Makita and Bosch… One brand just doesn’t HAVE the tool the other makes. If you NEED that tool, you’re going to cross brands, and need to buy the kit with the batteries and charger.
Bosch, along with its “Child” brand, that it kidnapped from the USA, Dremel, are really meant to end at a point where you leave your own property. They’re Workshop, Hobby, and Homeowner tools of high precision, power, and engineering.
Robm
I’m a Dewalt guy, but I’d buy Milwaukee, Makita, or Metabo HPT long before I’d buy a Bosch. They’re childish tool names are enough to turn me away from them, but since bosch tools are out performed by just about every other brand out there is another reason I’d never buy one.
Frank D
Bosch outperformed by every other brand?
Objectively, there is no way that is anywhere remotely fact or true, or they would not be used in commercial & industrial settings.
Most will agree on the nicknames doing the brand no favor, and leading to all kinds of chest thumping for other brands, which … . Right.
Robm
Objectively, there is a way to say that they are outperformed by every other brand. Every industrial setting I’ve been to, every machine shop I’ve been to, every construction site I’ve ever worked, has been dominated by DeWalt, milwaukee, makita, even hilty very rarely have I seen Bosch tools being used anywhere other than a DIY setting.
CountyCork
You maybe referring to US market only but Bosch’s primary market isn’t the US. These profactor tools will help them here in the US. I think you are also underestimating Bosch Users. I just sold Bosch’s old impact on Ebay (one like this https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/cordless-impact-wrenches-hth181b-39919-p/ ) and to my surprise it sold for $180 used and about 5 years old. I’m putting this $ towards Bosch’s newest version which is on par with Milwaukees impact wrench which will be available for pre-order.
Robm
I know they have a huge following in the EU. But here I don’t see them growing, especially with the silly names, and small tool system.
Frank D
That’s like saying everything ranks below NA vehicle brands X, Y & Z … while one only looks at the NA gas guzzler market dominated by full size pickup trucks.
Oh hello big world!
Who knew all the other continents had different experiences and perspectives, because they have a different economy and there are other market forces in play … with far less branding kool-aid.
Nathan
How I see it, reading between the lines. . . . . . .
TLDR version – Bosch is following Milwaukee with worse naming convention.
Stuart
Not quite. Milwaukee doesn’t have any exclusive batteries. They have upgraded and updated most of the tools that don’t fit their larger batteries.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-12ah-battery-worklight-compatibility-free-upgrade/
Big Richard
But like Profactor, they do have certain tools designed around their M18 HO batteries (Super Sawzall, table saw, 12″ miter saw, etc.). Just like Bosch’s Profactor tools say you can use a smaller “spare tire” battery, the M18 HO tools are designed to be used with the HO batteries, but you can use any old M18 battery as a “spare tire”.
While we don’t have all the answers yet, it sounds to me like this is exactly like M18 HO, they just are not good at explaining it.
Stuart
I agree. I’ve used an M18 5Ah with some of the HO-optimized tools without problem, at least for low-demand tasks.
You can use Milwaukee’s 12Ah battery outside of HO-optimized tools if needed. With Bosch, their 12Ah battery is Profactor-exclusive and it’s not clear why.
Big Richard
That’s what I’m not sold on quite yet though. Does the 12Ah Profactor battery truly not work with non-Profactor tools? Or are they just recommending users to not use it – as there is no added benefit – and are doing so in a confusing manner? Perhaps just misusing the word exclusive? They just don’t give a clear answer, and if it didn’t work, you would expect them to come right out and say so (I know that is not Bosch’s style, especially as of late).
I’m not sure if this was your words or theirs, but you wrote: “This is ‘not a battery for your FREAK,’ due to the size and weight.” Which sounds like it can work, but they’re telling you it’s not the best? Or is that there way of saying they are doing users a favor by not making it compatible? I have no idea.
I suppose it is possible that they would design it with an extra tab or something so it physically will not work with non-Profactor tools, but that just seems against everything they are trying to pitch with this “one system” mentality. The more I think about it the more unsure I become.
Ryan
I don’t see why the 12.0Ah is not ideal for light and it is ironic to hear that.
They launched a new 10,000 lumens led light and indicates the runtime is 12.5 mins/Ah. In this scenario, doesn’t the 12.0Ah battery works the best with the light?
Stephen
For one, the 12.0 Ah battery looks gigantic. From a size perspective alone, I would not want to use that with the smaller or even medium sized Bosch work lights. I have the 6.3Ah battery and it’s getting to be pretty bulky when attached to their 1900 lumen work light.
I have a hard time believing the 12.0 Ah is strictly incompatible. It could just be that their current work lights aren’t fully optimized for the larger battery, like the ECO mode they mentioned.
Ryan
Indeed. The battery is not for light duty power tools.
I have owned the 12.0Ah batteries for more than 1 year and I found that it is useful for power hungry tools such as big work lights, rotary hammer and miter saw.
I wish I could attach some photos to my comment.
Steven Johnson
Has anyone just cut off the plastic tab on the bottom of their ProFactor 12Ah battery and used it in their other tools anyway? It looks like simple surgery if Bosch simply feels that it is too heavy to use safely, then what about lights. I want to use my mini blower which must draw around 16A as one 8Ah battery lasts about a half hour and is not enough to do my three story high (which is why I use the mini) flat roof.
Jacob
I was looking for a comment like this and hoped it would have an answer. That little plastic tab seems like the only thing holding me back from using this in my hammer drill.
Steve F
To use the big-a$$ batteries on the FREAK series tools, you just need the “Side Cutter” upgrade kit that might include a Dremel for making the tab snip pretty.
And nobody mentioned the Bluetooth connectivity option in the FREAK series. Wouldn’t everybody want/need their tools and chatgers to be “maintained, monitored, controlled” by your smartphone. Saves a walk to the other side of the room to look at the blinky lights on the charger.
Matt
That profactor saw tho. I owned the Milwaukee and makita 12 inch cordless saw I just reciently sold. The Milwaukee was powerful and light. Just not precision accurate. The makita was accurate but was to heavy to lug around to job sites. I’m about to order the surgeon just waiting for a promo to hit. The corded version of the Bosch is an incredible saw. And me not owning any Bosch tools at the moment has me a bit excited to try out the new line.
Stan
Is the Procore 12ah battery compatible with the Profactor tool? The new table saw is what I’m looking at but is not available in Australia. I can order it on Amazon but want to make sure our batteries are going to work
Stuart
I cannot guarantee it, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. I am under the impression Profactor is the same as Procore.