We briefly spoke about the new Bosch REAXX flesh-detecting table saw the other day. More info has hit my inbox, and I’m working on a deeper preview of the REAXX. I also have a bunch of questions about its inner workings, and hope to have some of those answered before the full followup post goes up.
One thing to mention right away is that this saw will be priced at about $1500 in the USA and $1700 CAD in Canada, and it will come bundled with a gravity-style portable table saw stand. It’s not just the flesh-sensing and finger-saving technology that commands such a price, but also the “smart” features built into it, such as the control panel and ability to communicate with a smartphone app.
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ETA: Fall 2015
fred
The price is not bad considering everything. The Sawstop jobsite saw is priced $100 less – but this saw has additional features – and perhaps a better fence. The Jobsite Sawstop seems to get some low marks for a sloppy fence.
While I say that the price is not bad, I’m also aware that there are those out there who look only at price – and will be comparing $1500 to $104 ($130 – typical sale price – less 20% coupon) for a HF.
I currently have a 4100DG on a gravity-rise stand sitting in my garage to supplement my 40 year old Unisaw (with a sliding table) that sits in my basement shop. I’m loathe to buy new power tools when they first appear – as I think the marketplace has an ability to help manufacturers identify issues (bugs etc.) and sort things out – but I’ll be watching to see how the reviews come in and maybe my 4100 will get sold off. I’ve also heard from my ex-compatriots that they will be taking a close look to replace their fleet of 4100’s.
Eric
$1500 is probably MSRP, so we may end up seeing the saw go for less in stores.
derpson
Amazon prices for the 4100/stand combo for context:
Real Price: $599.00
MSRP: $1,170.00
Jason
The MSRP on tools is weird you hardly ever see them sold at that price. Amazon is really “guilty” of using the inflated msrp to indicate a huge discount when it is about the same or a tad cheaper than street retail.
Porphyre
I’ll be honest, I’m a price shopper and this trend annoys me. WHY do they put the best safety features on ONLY the high end saws? Everyone says the SawStop cabinet saw is a great saw. I’ll bet a lot of people would buy a SawStop quality saw (at a lower price) even without the blade break. A lot of us like to woodwork but can’t afford $1250-1500 for a new saw.
It may be putting lipstick on a pig, but making a $500 saw by putting a $250 blade break on a $250 saw is ok by me.
Randy
Hey Porphyre. It’s a nice thought to buy tools simple on price but after 30 + years of tool buying, price is a factors in only 40% of my purchases. Sure would be nice to get all the Good stuff for $ 50 to $200 but sadly it’s not possible. I saved up for 4 months to get the Boshe Laser level I wanted, I work for a contractor who hates to spend money on tools so we have but our own small stuff. I will snap up this table saw when it comes out. What ever the price, you see I only 9 & 3/4 fingers and two badly damaged ones for the Unisaw. So I sit priced to high, probably, but my old Boshe table saw, going on 12 years old doesn’t owe me a penny. I feel for your brother but sometimes we just have to pony up the big bucks
Brian
I wouldnt go as far as to compare it to HF, but its hard not to compare it to more than just the sawstop… Even if you keep it in the family, its a $600 saw, and there are several other strong competitors in that price range.
Not speaking to the control panel or smart phone connectivity (im not sure what that does), the easy math says the brake costs $900 bucks. clearly the market needs more competition before this device approaches a reasonable margin.
fred
Perhaps once the newness wears off the street price may fall. The $600 for the Bosch 4100 is what its selling for today – but it was higher when it was first introduced. Amazon claims (their claims on list price often seem inflated) that the List Price on the 4100 is $1170.
Stuart
Maybe, maybe not.
They’re going to want to recoup their R&D expenses before they lower the retail price. If they even intend to. $1500 might be too low to do so immediately.
derpson
Or maybe they’ll license it (other tool companies don’t have airbag/belt-tensioner systems experience to draw from) and make money if you buy their saw or someone else’s saw? Kinda like microsoft who makes money on every android device sold.
Brian
Sawstop tried to license its tech years ago with no success, nobody wanted to pay and suggested the market didnt care enough.
It would be nice to have the option though, I would certainly spend 2 or 300 for such a system, especially if it did not destroy the blade. Not sure about 900… Thats more than my saw cost.
adabhael
Gotta love that to produce a saw where the main claim is safety, the video has the “guard removed for demonstration purposes only.”
Can I be grouchy for a minute and ask if anybody else finds the heavy guitar music, quick-cuts editing, and abuse of fast- and slow motion that has become de riguer for these these tool videos really annoying? I mean seriously, I don’t need slow motion of a guy pulling it out of a truck, or walking thanks. On the other hand, a real time shot of the set up would be a whole lot more useful to me than a sped up one. Sorry /rant
Stuart
I think some of those “pulling the saw out of the truck” and similar shots is about making the product relatable. I think they want to show users that this is a on-the-go type of saw, although it looks great for smaller wood shops as well.
BikerDad
I agree totally. The use of crappy heavy metal guitar riffs in tool videos is so overdone. A really interesting comparison is the SawStop Jobsite Saw video, done as a “lets follow the contractor around for a while.” This Bosch video was painful to watch, and the ONLY reason I would watch it again is for the animation of the mechanism. The SawStop video was a pleasure and worth watching again. (In fairness, it was 6 minutes long…)
Fortunately for Bosch, it’s unlikely that their new saw is as bad relative to SawStop’s as is Bosch’s new video.
ktash
I hate that type of ad, and am suspicious when I see one that they don’t want to give good technical information. When I’m buying an expensive product I want to know more about how it works, not to mention other specs. Even basic specs light weight and dimensions are hard to find. If you look on Amazon, you will find the dimensions of the shipping container, not the product. I looked and looked at the dimensions of a planer stand (DW) and could not find them. Ha, ha, I decided to build my own out of 2x4s. Money in my pocket.
I think this ad demeans the intelligence of their customers. It is some kind of stereotype that they think will relate to their customers. I’m not so sure. At least not for woodworkers. What’s that saying? “The most important tool in your shop is in your head.” And who has the money for these high end products? Usually people who are highly intelligent, though may or may not be book-intelligent.
The other theory of this type of ad is that it is attention-getting, and even annoying, so you remember it. And that it is. Even if you turn down the volume.
Also, is particle board reflective on one side?
Rustic Furniture Guy
I’d expect music like Bach/Mozart/Wagner from a German manufacturer of high-quality tools. This ad is plain insulting.
Jon
It’s an ad designed to get people’s attention. Most manufacturers produce a variety of ads in each of their selected media to appeal to different audiences. An ad on one TV channel will often be completely different from one on another channel for the same product. Same for magazine ads. I know plenty of guys who would have no objection to this presentation.
MT_Noob
Wow, I like what I see so far. I was not impressed with the fence quality (on the new contractor model) of the SawStop when I saw it in person ( and I was ready to buy). So if this one has a more accurate fence, and if it doesn’t destroy the blade, then it is a no-brainer for me. I am going to visit my favorite tool store and tell them to put me on some sort of waiting list for this one…
mnoswad
i’m reading this as Reeks…….even though I know its not.
OnTheWeb
You’d think the insurance industry would subsidize some of the cost instead of paying out the massive catastrophic, not to mention life changing, claims where often victims can no longer work.
Brian
Im a humble hobbyist who needs no insurance, but Im told there are discounts for having such equipment (or penalties for not having it depending on your viewpoint)
SuperLumberJock
I can just see a bunch of lawyers salivating right now. Once this type of table saw hits the market, it’s only a matter of time before some worker who suffers an accident with a regular table saw files a lawsuit with the company they’re working for. The complaint being not getting the “safer” table saw. I’m sure that Dewalt, Ridgid and Makita will be rolling out their version.
Also, I guess SawStop’s patent will be tested on this one.
jack brown
Yeah, I wonder if Bosch pulled a license from Sawstop. I am pretty amazed more manufacturers didn’t start licensing the basic Sawstop patents as soon as they were issued, even to come out with improved variations like this one.
Stuart
https://toolguyd.com/yet-another-table-saw-safety-lawsuit/
Bosch’s tech approaches the same problem but in a different way. Would probably be quite difficult for SawStop to cry foul. I imagine Bosch explored the possibility and made sure that they didn’t infringe on anything, assuming they didn’t license anything from SawStop.
Jon
The mechanism isn’t similar at all. They not only circumvented the SawStop patent, they also made it more affordable to use since it doesn’t destroy the blade and the operator can be up and running again in no time.
I’m certain it’s no coincidence that they first introduced a jobsite model as SawStop only had a rumored model to be introduced at some point, with additional rumors of field testers not liking it. I wonder if either company knew of the other’s introduction in the same month?
There are also LOTS of contractors and woodworkers who refuse to buy a SawStop because of that company’s (owner’s) strategy of lobbying to get legislation passed to force the adoption of his patented technology in all table saws.
Personally I would rather see David Butler’s Whirlwind technology get licensed before either of these technologies. As I said in the Craftsman post the other day, Craftsman is my vote for the company that should first license it. They have distribution in place, they are in a better position to serve the hobbyist and small-time shop owner than most other manufacturers, and it would make them suddenly relevant in the power tool market again.
Grady
I’ll stick with my SawStop ICS. I also keep my Ridgid 3650 and my dads B&D 8″ bench top saw. You might be able to tell I don’t need another table saw. Each saw has a use right now. If I find my self needing a job site saw I wil gladly put my money down on the SawStop. My SawStop ICS has been in service for ten yeas now and have never tripped the brake. I will always standup for SawStop and their actions. (SOAPBOX)Inventer Dr. Steve Gass, saw a need and developed a fix for the problem. His intention was to sell his invention to Tablesaw manufacturers. he was turned down by every major company he approached. Not being
Jon
That may have been his initial intention, but his attempts to lobby for legislation to force the adoption of his patented technology in all table saws sold in the U.S. is despicable. If he had done so while waiving his patent I wouldn’t find that tactic so objectionable. But as it is I find it very difficult to support him and his company, despite the value of his development.
I type this with stitches in my finger from a freak combination of factors and had my hand pulled into the side of the table saw blade despite all of my usual safety considerations. And I’m still not sure I want a SawStop. I could also be swayed if the technology were simply a matter of a flat- or nearly flat-rate extra charge on top of an otherwise comparable saw. I’ve used their cabinet saws in shops where I’ve worked and they are very capable, but they are 2-3x the price of a comparable saw from other manufacturers. The fence, cast iron top, motor, etc. aren’t all 2-3x more expensive because of the blade stop mechanism. He has every right to charge what he wants for his technology, but I don’t have to like that, contrary to his legislative attempts to “prove” otherwise.
CB
We all have to keep in mind about the high cost for new technology that is usually only reserved for earlier adapters. While we all would like to have this saw for $400 but remember when the flat screens tv’s came out? They were far far away from being cheap and now I bet everyone who reads has a flat screen.
I read above some of the comments about why these are only on expensive models and not on reasonably cheap models that everyone can buy. Those comments were also voiced loudly about the SawStop.
You have to consider the cost of such an item, the development costs to make this happen and lets not forget the coffers that need to be filled to cover any liability costs or paying an insurance premium to cover any liability which if there any lawsuits, they will be very costly. These issues/cost are substantially more expensive to cover compared to a every day table saw. I wonder what the calculated risks cost needed for each saw is?
While this saw is expensive and I would love have one, I too agree it’s expensive. I could do away of the technology for it to connect to my smart phone. I could very easily see the safety option coming out in basic saws but we just need to wait a little longer.
regopit
I was able to see this saw in action this past Friday at the JLC show. It is a nice saw you get two trips on the mechanism befor you have to replace it at the cost of $99. Unlike the sawstop your blade is spared along with your fingers. Then again for $50 you can buy a gripper and a push stick.
ktash
Yes, wait until all the owners of non-safe worksite saws start selling theirs off to buy this used. Then buy the Grr-rippers, and maybe the micro-jig splitters. The current excellent Bosch jobsite saw has good safety equipment, though for some cuts you do need to remove it. That’s when these other things come into the picture.
Another advantage of this saw over the Sawstop is that you have a company that is likely to be there for a a long time, for parts, etc.
Hang Fire
I sure hope the smartphone communication is NOT mandatory. Imagine 20 years from now, trying to use the saw… it communicates with WHAT? Using WHAT (outdated) protocol? An App that was last updated when? I have no such problems using any of my Dad’s 40-50 year old power tools.
I hope they come out with a version that’s a little cheaper and loses the gimmicks.
Phil
Whilst I like the idea of a feature that will save your fingers I also feel there is no substitute for safety practice on all saw bench operations and the danger of complacency is evident on this particular feature.The other unmentioned possibility is a power failure at the precise moment your flesh hits the blade ,as the firing mechanism is electrically operated it will not fire and the blade will keep spinning through your flesh.
ebrahem
I can’t wait for this saw to come out I have the gts1031 but I want something more powerfull and safe as I nipped my finger last year only 3 stich cost me 2500$ hospital bill and 3 weeks out of work another 7500$ dolar probibly so total cost of more then 10k plus mental breakdown after I turn the table saw everytime now so yes I would buy this tool in a heartbeat since doesn’t ruin the blade resets in 5 minuets and will match rest of my tools color I was looking to get stops aw after my incident but thanks to bosch I dont have to get stop saw bosch will do for me and people saying u can’t afford 1500$ on good table saw maybe u should stop doing wood working period cuz looks like ur not doing something right 1500$ is 1 day kitchen kabinet job so it’s no so expensive bosch 4100 series is 600+200 for stand so all that extended support and all those safety feautures are only 700 bucks and it doesn’t rune ur blade as we know good blades can be 100$ alone
alexander
I am flabbergasted to read how narrow minded some of these comments are.
The investments to make your workplace significantly safer are less than the price of leather seats in your car.
You probably want to have airbags in your car. Do they deploy every day? How much would these cost?
As an employer would be more than happy to spend $1500 to prevent my staff from seriously hurting themselves.
As a user of dangerous instruments and machines I welcome every significant improvement in safety.
It is disappointing to see how conservative some countries are to adopt safety in the workplace.
The fact that the industry did not adopt Sawstop, the legislators did not push to make technology compulsory and the fact that the industry and users did not demand the introduction of improvements to their machines that significantly reduce the change of potentially life changing injuries is beyond me.
Dennis
The reason, I hope, is a thing called liberty!