As you might have recently read, my first impression with the Bosch Reaxx portable table saw was a mixed bag, filled with positives notes but also disappointment.
I have yet to put in more time with the Bosch Reaxx, but more testing is in my plans.
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I spent a lot of time in the workshop over the weekend, and by workshop I mean getting sunburnt working in the driveway, choosing instead to get my drawers cut on a Dewalt table saw.
That Dewalt table saw, a DWE7491RS, simply provided a better user experience. It was easier to set up, easier to use, and I put more trust in its accuracy.
Right now I’m throwing a bunch of Dewalt tools at a project, for a series of upcoming reviews but also to gauge whether “sponsored projects” is something I could offer as an advertising option. But I didn’t obligate myself to use the Dewalt saw over the Bosch for the major progress push in my tool cabinet project. I preferred it.
That’s not really how I thought I would feel, at least not in the context of the Bosch Reaxx saw. I really thought I would love it. I wanted to love it. I had thought the Reaxx would be better, and that the premium price indicated a better portable table saw.
But the Bosch Reaxx table saw just doesn’t perform how I would expect a $1500 saw to perform. I expected a more… magical experience. Uncalibrated stops and a ringing blades were huge letdowns that continue to sting.
The far less expensive Dewalt saw has a better fence, is more square and better calibrated out of the factory, it has better guarding, and the blade spins truer.
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But that’s all just a rehash of my Bosch Reaxx review complaints. Oh dear, more hesitations have come to light about the Bosch Reaxx.
A reader pointed out that another reviewer has encountered some weird power issues, where the saw has been struggling to cut through 2x construction lumber. I hadn’t experienced this, and I have more testing to do before I can really comment about. But it’s something to potentially be cautious about.
Bosch has a smartphone app that can allow your device to communicate with the saw via NFC. In other words, the saw should talk to your phone, if properly equipped, when the two are in close proximity. I haven’t tried this yet, but here are a few official Bosch recommendations:
Please remember:
1. Don’t use the phone/app while operating the saw
2. Set the phone to “airplane mode” while operating the saw
3. Always follow the Operations Manual, including avoiding distractions while operating power tools
Umm… what?
Numbers 1 and 3 make sense. Distractions can still lead to severe injuries, despite the flesh-detecting and injury-mitigating safety mechanism.
Number 2 is the surprising one. I have to set my phone to airplane mode when operating the saw? Every time? Really?
Yesterday someone directed me to a live stream demo video on Facebook, where a Bosch rep on the Acme Tools channel tried to show how the safety mechanism will activate when the blade comes into contact with a finger-simulating sausage.
And in that video, the blade did retract… before it even touched the sausage. What?! Premature or unintentional tripping of the safety mechanism is not good to hear.
All these concerns and complaints are things that can be fixed, although some of the issues might be a little tougher to remedy.
Then there’s this news, that a US court has ruled in SawStop’s favor, (here’s a look at the original SawStop vs. Bosch lawsuit post) or at least partial favor, concluding that Bosch and the Reaxx are infringing on several SawStop patents. It remains to be seen what happens, but Bosch might be barred from importing and selling Reaxx saws and components – including replacement safety charge cartridges – in the US.
If I were eagerly waiting to buy the Bosch Reaxx, I would want to wait a little longer. There is a lot of promise in its capabilities, so I would watch the situation closely.
At the least, being told to put smartphones in airplane mode before operating the saw? That is highly unusual, not to mention an unacceptable inconvenience to many hobbyists and tradesmen alike. Plus, it could be a safety hazard. What if something happens to you or someone working nearby and you need to dial 911?
It looks like they’re not sure what tripped the saw in the Acme video. It’s not something I have seen or heard of anyone else experiencing, but it’s something I will try to replicate or at least investigate.
Perhaps with just some tweaking, Bosch should be able to turn the Reaxx into the saw we had been eagerly waiting months for.
Andrew Mitry
I bought a Reaxx saw, I used it once successfully with no issues. The second time I was ripping a bunch of cedar I got from Home Depot (very dry) and the activation cartridge activated twice after I finished the rip (nothing near the blade). I ended up finishing the rest of the rip cuts in bypass mode out of fear that I might trigger another activation (only have one cartridge pair left. Currently going back and forth with Bosch support on troubleshooting (no offer to replace the wasted safety cartridges).
This is the latest from Bosch:
> We are sorry to hear that you experienced an activation with your table
> saw. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We would like to help
> troubleshoot and determine what may have happened to cause the
> activation. Did you by chance have a cellphone in your pocket? If so the
> phone needs to be turned to Airplane mode or turned off otherwise it can
> cause an activation. Was the cedar wet? Too much moisture can cause an
> activation as well. If it wasn’t one of these issues we will have a Product
> Specialists contact you to further discuss the issue. We look forward to
> hearing from you to help resolve this issue. I will await your reply.
Matt J
So your phone can trip it? I’m sure everyone on the jobsite will love the guy that has to tell them to stay away or turn their phones to airplane so his fancy whiz bang saw has one less reason to blow $25 on accident.
Stuart
$50. A 2-activation cartridge costs $99.
Matt J
Oh sorry, I’d seen the 50 thrown around and thought it was the whole cartridge. Even worse though
Andrew Mitry
Update: I talked to a Bosch technician, no solid theory on what is triggering it. They will send me another safety cartridge (for free) so I can try again. Recommended to fully clean out the saw and give it another spin. Will keep you posted.
BonPacific
If Bosch tells you to turn your phone off in the manual, and the tech’s are briefed to say that phones can set off the sensor…
Since this made it into the manual, Bosch *knows* their system is sensitive to interference, and rather than fixing the design flaw, decided to sell the saw anyways. That’s some shitty business right there.
I don’t own a ton of Bosch stuff, but if this is all true I won’t be buying that Colt Router I’ve been eyeing. Can’t support this behavior.
MT_Noob
I did not see that specifically in the manual. It might simply be that since this is a new product and fairly new issue, the support team might be grasping at straws for an explanation.
Assorted problems in a new launch do crop up, I am more concerned with how they respond to them. And it looks like in the case of Andrew, Bosch is working with him to make it right. I look forward to additional updates on how it goes.
This is the only thing slightly related that I saw in the manual:
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/ocsmedia/1600A009XC_0915_GTS1041A.pdf
NEAR FIELD COMMUNICATION (NFC)
INTERFACE
The Active Response Technology™ injury mitigation
system can interface with smart phones
that have NFC functionality and the Bosch Power
Tools app installed.
Do not use the NFC function
while the saw blade is
spinning. Distraction while cutting may result in
tool damage and serious personal injury.
To connect to the NFC, launch the Bosch Toolbox
App and click the “Connect to tool” button. Place
the smart phone against the Near Field Communication
interface. The..
Richard
I work as a fulltime trim carpenter. I have owned and worn out several Bosch 4100 series saws over the years.I have always found them to be excellent site saws, accurate and real workhorses. We also use a Bosch GTS1031 saw.
I bought the Bosch Reaxx saw specifically for the blade plunging safety feature.
The problem is this feature activates all by itself while ripping plywoods, dry poplar, even Azec PVC material. The saw is almost always connected to a dust extractor or vac. Despite several attempts I have been unable to pair this saw with the Bosch app on my phone.
I took to using the bypass feature at start up to bypass the misfiring plunge mechanism but I guess the manufacturer has programmed a limit/cap on the number of times this bypass feature can be used as this option no longer works. Needless to say both cartridges fired off in less than 10 minutes shortly after that. Those were miss fires #9 and#10. I have spent $360.- on replacement cartridges on top of a $1500.- purchase price to date for a saw I hardly ever or cannot use. If I bring it on site I also have to bring a back up replacement saw so as not to loose a days work on top of the replacement cost of cartridges. This saw is now a liability to my business. It is a shame because otherwise this is an accurate and powerful saw for my line of work. I’m busy at work and dont have the time or patience to call the bosch product specialist merry go round. Anybody hear of any fix for these issues? Thanks.
MT_Noob
I know you mentioned you don’t have time to contact Bosch. However, I read or saw somewhere that they allegedly have a software upgrade that can be done if you take the saw to a repair center. I think it might be worth giving them a call and insisting on some sort of resolution and some spare cartridges to make up for all your false triggers.
Scott G.
I bought a Reaxx saw last week for a considerable discount due to the discontinuation of the saw ($799).
First plugged it in and red light stayed on. Unplugged and then replugged it in, blue light stayed on. Called Bosch and they ran me through a few things. Never asked about my phone, finally got a green light so i turned it on and the cartridge fired. Turned the cartridge around and turned it back on, this time the saw stayed on. Toggled the switch to off thinking everything was good and it fired again.
Sawstop may have done Bosch and the consumer a huge favor by stopping the sale of this saw. Seems way over engineered. Big disappointment. Returned for a full refund.
Sawstop is now owned by Festool’s parent company ToolTechnic.
Scott G.
I bought a Bosch Colt router a few months ago and another big disappointment. The motor rpm’s constantly go up and down.
I usually only buy Festool and Dewalt and I will be staying with both of them, never a problem.
Alex
Scott g how were you able to reset the saw ,how did you get out of blue light mode.?
Alex
I’m in the same boat bought the Reaxx for 300 display model. Works great.. not really … Worked grait for 2 days . Then All of a sudden bam 2 carteges in 10 min . On dry wood. Now it’s in blue led mode .. how do I get out of it? How were you able to do it . Bosch is trying to help they will send me a new replacement cartridge but I hope I don’t have to ship the saw out for repair just for a reset . Shipping is on me 150$ ± no guarantee .even though I spend 300$ it will end up $450 + I probably should have brought my buddies DeWalt 490 he was selling it for 450$ in grait condition.
Stuart
I didn’t see it in the manual either. It seems to have only been added to the online product page.
BonPacific
Ah, I missread your post, somehow thinking your quote was from the manual. My bad.
MichaelHammer
Right on. Well said. Dewalt’ says router is way better any way. Take it from someone who has both .
Mike
Is Bosch concerned that RF may inadvertently trip the safety system? Do you have a FRS, GMRS, or CB radio and are willing to risk one cartridge to try it out?
mizzourob
I’m guessing the airplane mode is simply a legal CYA by Bosch so you do not “accidently” take phone calls around the saw or get distracted by the ring or other alert tones.
As to the ringing of the blade I wonder if that is caused by the blade mount being on a pivot supported by the the cartridge instead of being on a more fixed motor mount.
Chance
Read the first comment. Nothing to do with being distracted.
Mike
The first comment was not yet displayed when he wrote that, maybe due to awaiting moderation.
mizzourob
Thanks… Your post was not up yet.
Bigskydoc
The ringing of the blade is because you didn’t have your phone in airplane mode. Duh!
Hehehe
William
I have been really happy with by SawStop Jobsite saw, see no need to bother with the Bosch
Larry
Except for saving hundreds of hundreds of dollars initially AND after the saw is activated, ruining your blades.
BonPacific
The Bosch is more expensive than the SawStop jobsite saw. The blade argument is true, but the Bosch would be better if it had a test function to reduce missfires.
Jim L Buzard
Sawstop will replace the cartridge for free if it is tripped by skin contact if you return it to them, plus I have reused the blade after the cartridge was tripped, I did take it to a sawblade service and had the blade checked out. They replaced 1 tooth is all. Loss of a blade is a small price to pay for saving a finger. I believe Sawstop is a excellent saw with above average quality, out of the box with little, if any adjustments And my phone doesn’t trigger the cartridge!
David
If a cell phone in the area can cause an activation, I can’t see this working as a jobsite saw – you’re unlikely to get every worker on a site to turn their phone to airplane mode as they walk past the saw. If their technology is that sensitive to interference, it’s also highly likely that other wireless signals could cause problems. Hopefully we’ll get more detail on this.
Stuart, is this something you’d dig in to to share? I’d love to see something official from Bosch if this is actually an issue.
Nathan
I could see where depending on the frequency of your phone’s output it could trigger the sense mechanism.
IE have you ever been near a speaker or intercom and heard it chirp/buzz when someone’s phone is near it – happens more with ATT/Tmobile as GPRS band seems to hits the right sweet spot in smaller wires.
so it could – with phone in proximity to the cirucits – trigger the device because it would send a ripple of voltage down the wire.
side note is the throat plate connected by chance – could that be why the sausage test fired early. capacitance on the throat plate – before the blade?
BonPacific
You can buy ferrite clips for pretty cheap that remove this interference from wires, so I don’t think this should be an issue. If you’ve ever noticed a speaker wire with a strange bump an inch or two from the plug, that’s a ferrite filter that removed cell phone interference.
MT_Noob
Yikes, I picked one up since I didn’t like SawStops tactics. I sure hope the lawsuit is overturned. I have yet to put the saw through the paces but the above article has me concerned. I’ll have to do some tests and see how things work on mine.
Andrew Mitry
Same reason I picked up the Bosch, didn’t like SawStop’s tactics either.
RKA
Between the lawsuit and possible false activations, I’d be stockpiling a few extra cartridges. Disappointing for sure, but let’s give Bosch a chance to get their arms around this and see if they can explain/fix it. Airplane mode is not the answer, but if interference is the cause, it’s back to the drawing board for them.
Adam spiller.
Wuy , do you want to conect your phone, to your table saw, or any other power tool , I don’t like the way technology is going , with power tools, it’s just more stuff to go wrong, I carn’t use my tools without my phone, if I lose my phone, I will have to take a day of work, crazy world.
Jimmie
When are Sawstop’s patents set to expire?
Toolfreak
Sawstop’s patents are only on it’s particular method of stopping the saw blade, my understanding is that the lawsuit is about sawstop insisting they can patent the very idea of a safety mechanism, and so anyone who builds a saw with a safety mechanism has to use theirs, and pay them royalities for the honor of doing so.
Patents don’t work like that, at least, in realistic legal terms. You can patent a particular way of doing something, or a new and better way of doing something, but you can’t hold a patent that is so broad, any new or better ways can’t ever come about.
Sawstop will lose it’s case, on appeal if not outright. The lawsuit is more about showing off and hoping Bosch will settle rather than Sawstop’s attorney’s actually expecting to win in an honest and objective court of law.
BonPacific
If you read SawStop’s patents, they do appear to cover the detection part of the safety system, and the concept/act of lowering the blade under the table. So it looks like they have this one locked down. Bosch would probably have to have a safety system that didn’t lower the blade to avoid patent.
Their patents should expire in 2019 though.
Jim D
Also this from SawStop:
Bosch Reaxx Saw Infringes Patents: ITC Judge Finds for SawStop
Tualatin, OR — September 13, 2016
SawStop, LLC, the world leader in table saw safety, sued Robert Bosch GmbH of Germany and its subsidiary Robert Bosch Tool Corporation for patent infringement. The lawsuit is before the U.S. International Trade Commission. Last Friday, Administrative Law Judge Thomas B. Pender confirmed that the Bosch Reaxx saw infringes patents related to SawStop’s implementation of active injury mitigation technology and components thereof. Here is an excerpt:
“Based on the foregoing, it is my Initial Determination that there is a violation of Section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930, as amended, 19 U.S.C. § 1337, in the importation into the United States, the sale for importation, or the sale within the United States after importation of certain table saws incorporating active injury mitigation technology and components thereof, in connection with the asserted claims of U.S. Patent Nos. 7,895,927 and 8,011,279.” –U.S. I.T.C., Inv. No. 337-TA-965
SawStop is asking the ITC to order US Customs to exclude Bosch’s Reaxx saws from entering the United States, and to order Bosch to stop advertising and selling the saws and associated parts, which might include replacement cartridges essential to the saw’s operation.
Dr. Stephen Gass, SawStop’s President, notes that “the technology in SawStop saws wouldn’t have made it to market except for the protection offered by the United States patent system. We have invested millions of dollars in research and development to protect woodworkers from serious injury, and our inventions have been awarded numerous patents. Bosch chose to introduce the Reaxx saw in disregard of our patents, and we were left with no alternative but to defend our patent rights in court. We are very pleased Judge Pender confirmed that Bosch infringes our patents.”
About SawStop Table Saws:
SawStop, established in 1999, is the world leader in table saw safety. Each SawStop saw stops and retracts the blade on contact with skin. The company’s saws are designed to minimize saw-related injuries and the costs associated with them. SawStop’s award-winning portable Jobsite Saw introduced in 2015 continues to be welcomed by glowing media reviews and thousands of happy customers across North America. Learn more at http://www.sawstop.com.
Media Contact:
David Fanning, Vice President
[email protected], 503-570-3200
Gordon
Considering the CEO of SawStop is a former patent attorney, I would think this is a little more than just a troll case.
But no, lets continue to listen to people on the internet with zero understanding of running a company and protecting their investments. Regardless of the perceived outcome of this case, SawStop must pursue any potential patent violations. There is a good chance that the phone in your pocket has at least one patent currently under fire in a court of law. It happens, move on.
Monte
Simply buy a Mafell Erika….:)
Jim
Considered it, but currently only available in 230v. Too bad! Limits their North American customer base considerably.
Jon
It’s available with a 120 volt motor.
Jim
Thanks Jon. Just saw that on Timberwolf. I have to give them a call tomorrow and see what kind of deal we can put together. Or, go through ToolNut.
Deanie
My husband recently tried to cut his thumb off with his table saw. I found this group and read many of your posts. I was leaning towards a Sawstop – read about the many Bosch problems and then saw these comments. Why buy the Mafell Erika Saw?
The Ami
Just a philosophical question here.
Why not support an American invention, made by and in America. Why support a foreign company that didn’t put any resources in the development a GREAT idea?
This is really our American problem and the issue that we’re facing today.
It’s pretty easy these days to *Google* where things are made, or who develops what and how.
Sawstop, is made in Tualatin, Oregon……..right here in the good ol’ USA.
YOU can make a difference.
Bill2
The Ami, the problem that many people, me included, have with SawStop is how inventor/owner Steve Gass went about bringing his invention to market. My understanding is that he first tried to market his invention to a number of the table saw manufacturing companies and when he had no takers he then tried to lobby law makers to make it illegal to sell a table saw without his new safety invention. Much like it would be illegal to sell a car today without seat belts. But when those efforts also failed, thank God, he was left with no option but to make his own saw. So yes, I will support Bosch or another manufacturer who can offer me an alternative to anyone who tries be Un-American and force me to buy their technology or products.
The Ami
Probably an even better reason to support the guy. The big companies didn’t want any part of it……..
Table/Circ saws are probably the most dangerous tool on a jobsite, well besides the good ol’ hammer. I understand your point regarding trying to force something *legally* down customers throats, and wasn’t aware of that side of it. After hearing it, it would make sense that this small biz owner with a great idea gets frozen out by the BIGs. But how can you find fault in a little guy that uses the same biz tactics that large corporations do all the time?
Are you sure your applying your logic evenly?
Stuart
SawStop saws are made in Taiwan.
The Ami
Reaxx saws are probably made in China, but Bosch is not an American company.
SawStop is an American company, based in America……not oversees or Bermuda, Barbados, or the Caymans.
Thanks for the Blog, I come hear often.
Tegian
I am normally a Bosch fan and dislike Dewalt tools but I totally agree that Dewalt is a superior table saw, for the price I expected far more from Bosch then they deliver.
ALEX
I bought this saw for the safety feature. So paying top $ was worth it at first.
After one week of use the there was an activation and was not even close to the blade. Called Bosch customer service and after answering 100 questions they told me they will send out new Activation Cartridges two weeks later nothing arrived , in the mean while the second and last activation happened , again for no reason.
Called Bosch again , they didn’t know why i didnt get the cartridge and had no means of tracking it. Promised to send out another one and nothing yet.
Meanwhile the saw is out of commission and im loosing work time as i need the saw.
Even after i get or if i get the cartridges ill be afraid to use them and go to bypass mode just for this not to happen again. So saw safety features are worthless.
By the way i was cutting fully kiln dried wood.
Looks like a total flop and im considering returning this saw for a refund!
ALEX
UPDATE: called Bosch again finally a supervisor agreed to sent a cartridge via trackable UPS. Why couldn’t they do that in the first place!! Customer service is horrendous to say the least.
Worked with the new cartridge cutting some very dry cedar and after a half hour for no reason at all (i was not even close or around the saw blade and no my iphone was not with me) there was an activation.
This saw is being returned for refund. Lost a a month worth of work