Bosch USA has added several “new” tools to their website, and I say “new” because these SKUs feature existing brushed motor and brushless 12V Max cordless power tools. These are not actually new tools, as some of these models launched more than 10 years ago.
So, what’s going on?
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Why is Bosch re-releasing their older 12V Max cordless power tools with different SKUs?
We asked Bosch USA for more information but have not yet received any response.
Looking closer, it seems that the only difference is that the new bare tools ditch the “Exact-Fit” L-Boxx-compatible insert trays included with current bare tool SKUs.
Does this mean Bosch is moving away from their L-Boxx system? Probably not, that would be a leap, but it certainly does suggest that their L-Boxx system of modular tool boxes is about lose some of its visibility and exposure here in the USA.
What is the Goal?
The simplest explanation is that Bosch might want to make their bare tools less expensive. Leaving out the L-Boxx-compatible tray from a bare tool SKU probably saves a little on cost.
Why else would they do this?
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What will this Mean?
What will the impact be on those users who do use Bosch’s L-Boxx compatible tool trays?
Having tool inlays that could be effortlessly placed in a Bosch L-Boxx tool case is one of the few benefits Bosch’s L-Boxx tool storage system can claim over competitors’. I’m sure that this helped win a fair number of cordless power tool and modular tool box users over to Bosch’s systems.
Bosch’s L-Boxx tool boxes don’t quite stand up to competing systems, and I don’t think there are many who would argue otherwise. Quite frankly, I’ve grown fed up with my Bosch L-Boxx tool boxes. Stacking my Bosch tool boxes gets more finicky the more they’re loaded up, and it has become clear to me that the design is very user-unfriendly compared to other systems by Festool, Milwaukee, and even Dewalt.
This is one of the reasons I have been moving towards Milwaukee’s Packout tool box system, with its greater ease of use and its vastly superior construction.
If Bosch’s new SKUs are to replace existing ones – we’re still waiting for Bosch USA to respond to our questions on this – then it’s going to become harder for Bosch cordless power tool users, at least anyone buying these 12V Max bare tools, to get their hands on L-Boxx insert trays..
In my opinion, this can only negatively impact Bosch’s L-Boxx system, and so far I am not seeing any indication that they will do anything to counter or balance against this.
Is Bosch really going to give up one of their few L-Boxx system advantages at a time when Festool, Dewalt, and Milwaukee have ALL recently updated or expanded their modular tool box systems?
Maybe Bosch USA will finally launch an L-Boxx insert tray configurator, similar to the one they launched in Europe more than 8 years ago, where users can buy the inserts separately? This seems likely.
Part of a Bigger Trend?
My gut instinct says that fewer included accessories is simply being done to lower pricing.
We have seen this recently – Bosch has come out with cheaper and less featured tool kits for the 2020 holiday shopping season.
New Cheaper Bosch FREAK Brushless Impact Kit (Black Friday 2020 Special?!)
Ignoring for a moment that all of Bosch’s “New Products” are older models which should have lower unit costs, especially since some of these tools launched more than 10 years ago, eliminating the L-Boxx-compatible tray could simply be a cost-cutting effort.
Whether by intent of effect, this will also reduce the visibility and strength of Bosch’s L-Boxx tool storage system.
Then again, Bosch has not given their L-Boxx tool box system much exposure in recent years. When is the last time Bosch introduced any new tool storage products to the USA market? Sortimo, their manufacturing partner, came out with new L-Boxx products over the years, but Bosch did not bring any of them over here.
Bosch used to have holiday season bundles that featured cordless power tool kits and L-Boxx tool box bundles, but they have not had any promos like this in a very long time.
Bosch offered L-Boxx-compatible trays for some of their bare tools, bundling them with bare tools to the benefit of users.
It was – and is – a great idea, and one that a lot of users wished other brands offered for their tools and tool box systems. These trays add to the appeal of the L-Boxx system, or so I would think. But then why would Bosch remove the inlays from the “new” tool SKUs listed on their website?
It seems likely that these new bare tool options will replace existing SKUs, and maybe this isn’t the case, but are retailers going to have to stock two different SKUs of bare tools? As mentioned, Bosch has not yet answered our questions about this.
What comes next?
I haven’t touched any new Bosch tools in quite some time, with the exception being a couple of tools I purchased from European dealers; do they still come with L-Boxx inserts?
One Other Possibility: Bosch L-Boxx Expansion?
Milwaukee has been very aggressive with their marketing activities, launching select cordless power tool and Packout tool box bundles.
Now, they also have select cordless power tool and Packout tool bag options.
Milwaukee also offers power tool accessory and Packout organizer options, as regular catalog items and special bundles as we saw during the 2020 holiday shopping season.
Dewalt has started doing the same, with a mechanics tool set that stores in a ToughSystem tool box.
With new tool trays, it’s not long before we see more Dewalt ToughSystem modular tool or accessory set integrations.
They also have ToughCase power tool accessory bundles that are said to be compatible with their Tstak tool box system.
Right now, it seems as though Bosch is simply doing away with the practice of including L-Boxx-compatible tool box insert trays with select 12V Max bare tools as a cost-cutting measure.
But, maybe Bosch USA is planning something big, to better compete against modern tool storage systems and promotions by Dewalt, Milwaukee, and other tool brands that are carving out ever-larger shares of the modular tool box market?
There might be something that I’m not seeing. Otherwise, why would Bosch do something like this, eroding one of the few benefits of their L-Boxx system? With other brands greatly increasing the visibility, exposure, and reach of their modular tool box systems, is Bosch USA really doing something to decrease theirs?
There is also the question – am I the only one who cares?
Assuming that Bosch’s “new” tool SKUs replace existing ones, would anyone else notice or care about the absence of an L-Boxx tray?
Update 12/15/2020: Here is Bosch’s response to our questions.
Joe H
My guess is that fewer and fewer people are using L-Boxx and most people have moved on to Milwaukee, DeWalt, and other systems like you have said. And probably even most Bosch users have moved to other systems. They have probably stopped paring things together since it would really benefit a small percentage of the people buying their tools. They have probably decided to cut their cost in the bundles and are not going to spend as much marketing on their L-Boxx because it can’t compete with the market. I don’t know if there is really room for another competitor in the modular tool storage market unless Bosch redesigns their L-Boxx to be competitive and really offers something different and offers them again in seasonal bundles. But I doubt they will invest the time and money in an already competitive market. Even if they redesigned their L-Boxx, there is the matter of compatibility with the existing design.
Mike (the other one)
As you said, some of these tools are 10 years old.
Maybe these are being discounted to clear inventory, to make room for a new line. That might also be the reason for the missing trays. They’re supplier is shifting to a new design to fit the new tools.
Just a guess.
Mike (the other one)
Also, they may be abandoning the whole L-Box system for a 2.0 system.
fred
Pity
IMO – another less than spectacular move by Bosch marketing folks. I understand that on thousands of units sold a few pennies or even an extra dollar or two of extra cost can mount up. And wanting to be able to advertise your product at a low price point may be an advantage. But this just seems like nickle-and-diming and frustrating what loyal customer base you have. Maybe that did some focus groups and found users who throw away the inserts to gain extra room in the box – but what about those who like the added protection and convenience that they add? Maybe the next focus group will advise that L-boxxes are not really needed and that only bare tools should be sold – not bundled as kits at all. Oh well it seems like a trend.
BTW – our first Bosch GCM12SD miter saw came with a little flip up arm that was affixed to one end of the saw base – but could be moved to the other end.
Soon that was an addition that you needed to purchase separately. It sells for $5.99 – so probably Bosch saved $2 on a saw that retails in the $600 range.
https://www.toolup.com/Bosch-MS1234-Length-Stop-Kit
JamesR
I commented about this in the Milwaukee impact Packout deal post. I want *more* inserts…by Bosch, or Milwaukee, Makita, Dewalt…hell, I’ll even invest in Ryobi if they come out with a system like Bosch’s Exact Fit. Not counting my Hitachi 14.4V NiCd drill, Bosch 12V was the first system I got into. So I have several of the L-boxxs and trays. But none of the newer Bosch 12V tools I’ve gotten came with a tray (planner, router, Flex-click, one hand recip saw, etc). And I think Fred mentioned, the only place I’ve found you can get just the trays is eBay…which isn’t my first place to shop. Sooo, yea, I definitely care about this.
Lets hope its the “coming out with something great” reasoning and not the “savings a few pennies” one.
CountyCork
I have 2 or 3 L-Boxes in my garage not being used. Maybe after reorganizing I can find a better use. In general I tend to not use these types of boxes but I really like the bosch bags they sell and have set items in a few of them so I can grab and go out on the farm. Too bad they removed the side pockets on the new ones, those can be really handy.
Steve L
I also have empty L-Boxxes. With all the new stuff I wonder if I will use them again.
I used Black Friday sales to buy (at a discount – thanks Stuart!) two ToughSystem 2.0 XL tool boxes and deep tool trays. Remove the inner tray and three deep tool trays fit in one XL box. The other XL box now has both inner trays on top and two deep tool trays. I moved 20V tools out of soft bags and into the deep tool trays.
Bosch is falling behind.
Aaron
I don’t like full inserts or kaizen because I carry too much junk stuff and it won’t all fit if I get that fancy. I do want more internal structure for my boxes though. I cut some lauan deviders for one of my totes, but neither toughsystem or tstack have simple shapes so it’s all angles and notches. A devider, a driver wall, an interior “bucket boss” rig all could get my attention.
Sometimes it feels like the modular systems aren’t designed for actual tools.
AngryDrumGuy
I agree with you and sometimes wonder if some of the designs were generated for any other reason than presentation.
fred
When I started buying power tools (cordless was not yet on the horizon) -anything professional usually came in a steel case that had plenty of room for accessory storage. I’m sure that the cost of the case was built into the price (high by today’s made in China market). For some applications the case was useless (like for tools used in the shop or on the factory floor) – but they were nice to have and could be re-configured for other uses.
Then the blow molded abomination (IMO) arrived – taking up lots of space with odd shapes that did not stack well. This was followed by toolbags – versatile but not terribly protective.
Now we have modular – stack together systems like those from Dewalt, Milwaukee et al. IMO these seem useful and sometimes clever but a bit costly (even more so if you like systainers) for plastic boxes. I’m not sure what will appear next.
Jim Felt
I still have some original Porter Cable and other Made in America steel cases that I added dense foam to and they’re still keeping my oldest corded tools handy and protected.
My Milwaukee and even Keter(?) made Ridgid hard cases are great but not necessarily “better”. Okay. They stack. But is that always really the best use? Or shape?
Conundrums.
AngryDrumGuy
As someone with limited truck space, one of the reasons (other than price) I invested in the Ridgid boxes is because they were essentially just a pelican case for tools with minimal internal organization, allowing me to use them however I chose to without wasting money on inserts I would remove.
Something I’m constantly baffled by are the plastic and foam inserts which ultimately create large dead spaces in the name of organization. A lot of people complain about this issue with blow-molded cases and I even see it in a lot of work trucks, where there’s a 6cu ft compartment with two tools in it, but it’s “organized” (this is rampant in the fire service).
AngryDrumGuy
To clarify, fire apparatus manufacturers have odd ways of configuring tool compartments. This is not a shot at the fire service in any way.
fred
I’m guessing that some firefighters may be OK with sacrificing space for the ability to quickly locate and grab a tool when running into action. If you would compare the organization of the tool room in our fabrication business (Lista Cabinets, Shadow Boards, Rotabins etc.) to what we had in the plumbing business – which was sort of an organized mayhem that our plumbers seemed to like – you would never imagine that both or either could be effective.
AngryDrumGuy
A lot of the efficiency in both of your work situations might be comfort. A lot of people know where their own things are located, chaotic as the organization appear, but anyone else viewing it would be overwhelmed.
skfarmer
no shit. we bought a 4wd mini pumper for our volunteer fire dept a few years ago, an early 2000’s gmc with low miles. several of the compartments had rails for shelves but where wide open. i offered to make some shelves/dividers for it on the cheap. oh hell no, it had to go back to the dealer for new shelves and installation. we spent a pile of money on shelves that hardly hold anything because the “equipment” has to stay in it’s huge cases.
AngryDrumGuy
A lot of truck committees or fleet managers seem to feel financially limited because “custom” rigs cost more, regardless of their effectiveness. The resistance you encountered toward modifying the compartments may have been a warranty issue.
skfarmer
warranty on a used truck? nope
cost? nope, under budget and my solution was 100-200 vs closer to 2000 in factory shelves.
some guys get blinded by shiney red paint, aluminum tread plate, chrome wheels and flashy led lights. i like nice stuff but i have never seen a human life or structure saved with flashy equipment over a cheaper less flashy truck with more/better equipment. even though they cost the same in the end
kind of like the guy who has a 10,000 truck tool box yet is under tooled because they went with flash over function, just my .02 worth .
Jim Felt
“Human nature”… ;-)~
AngryDrumGuy
Ah yes, we called those “parade trucks”. More expensive, but don’t knock things down any faster! I missed the low mile part. Yes, no warranty on used. Sorry the folks around you aren’t receptive. Most dept budgets make penny-pinching a requirement.
Not long ago I saw a newer rig with the DeWalt boxes in a compartment drawer on their wall mount. Slide it forward, grab the case you need and go. The Bosch and Makita boxes have a different look than the Milwaukee/DeWalt/Ridgid stuff. I’m curious if one design is more durable than the other?
Adabhael
My first reaction was “oh no!” because I fear this means Bosch is moving away from the L-Boxx, and I am 8 boxes in and counting. However, writing this, I realized that although several boxes have Bosch tools in them, none of them have exact fit inserts, and the presence or absence of an insert (while desirable in abstract) is not likely to affect which tools I buy in the future (especially in the face of 10-year-old technology!). If enough people are like me in that regard, perhaps this is not an unreasonable decision by Bosch? I agree there is penny pinching, but reduced waste shipping volume have environmental as well as financial dimensions, particularly if people are just throwing away the insert. FWIW Apple has made this argument for not including headphones or wallwarts with new iPhones.
After this post made me give up on JBOB and go modular, as suggested by this post I auditioned both Tough System and L-Boxx. Influenced by ToolGuyd’s take on the comparison, I opted for Tough System at work (where other people are liable to toss them about) and L-Boxx at home (because I found it easier to make custom inserts for the cleaner rectangle of the L-Boxx). Maybe I am just a curmudgeon, who doesn’t like change, but now I find both systems shifting in unfortunate ways. I find the new L-boxxes significantly worse (more flexible, harder to lift and grab the simplified side handles)than the originals. Similarly, the new ToughSystem 2.0 emulates what I find most annoying about the L-Boxx, the “automatic” latch when stacked. I know this won’t happen, but what would really make me prefer a manufacturer would be availability of accurate digital models/drawings/templates both of the boxes, and of the tools I buy. That would let me more easily fabricate my own inserts and know they will fit, while also enabling me to mix-and-match brands more easily. Soo good for me but not a benefit to the company’s bottom line.
It is interesting to see how Stewart’s opinion of L-Boxx has evolved over time and as new products like Packout became available.
Jim Felt
“really make me prefer a manufacturer would be availability of accurate digital models/drawings/templates both of the boxes“.
Brilliant! And why not?!
Thank you for the idea here.
GM
A few comments on this issue:
1. Bosch is the only company that has consistently provided custom-fit inserts for their tool boxes and a wide range of tools. As a general rule, other manufacturers have not included these inserts for their tools. You are left to cut your own insert from kaizen foam or use their overpriced pick-apart foam.
2. Bosch has a truly heavy-duty Dolly option. The Milwaukee Packout Rolling Tool Box has a weak wheel system and the new Packout 2-Wheel Cart is largely plastic.
3. The internal shape of the new L-Boxxes is not exactly the same as the older models. The older inserts fit the new L-Boxxes, but not exactly. Bosch may be in the process of redesigning the insert molds.
4. Sortimo, the manufacturer of the L-Boxx system, has changed their product line somewhat beyond just altering the shape and interlocking system of the L-Boxxes. For example, the colorful Insetboxes for the L-Boxx 1 (Sortimo L-Boxx 102 G4) are gone, replaced with black Insetboxes. However, Insetboxes are now available for the L-Boxx 2 (Sortimo L-Boxx 136 G4) Sortimo BOXXes & cases for perfect workplace organisation | Sortimo Shop USA (mysortimo.us).
5. Makita’s Interlocking Cases (manufactured or licensed by Tanos/Festool) are not fully compatible with the newer Festool boxes. Furthermore, they have never had custom tool inserts available.
Stuart
1) Exactly, which is why this was one of the primary Bosch L-Boxx distinctions if not advantages.
2) Maybe, but it’s just a hand-cart, one that can be interchanged with other products without any added or lost benefits.
3) I wouldn’t know – Bosch’s samples never arrived and they couldn’t or wouldn’t fulfill new requests.
4) I know Sortimo changed their T-Boxxes (for the worst), but didn’t notice any changes to their L-Boxxes.
5) L-Boxxes are also licensed from Festool/Tanos parent company, presumably because of patent protections.
Tom D
How do L-Boxxes and Makita’s casing interact with Systainers?
The CONCEPT behind Systainers is at least understandable – various brands with compatible cases is potentially a huge selling point – if they’re actually used that way.
GM
L-Boxxes don’t interact with Festool’s Systainers or Sortainers.
The Makita Interlocking Cases are fully compatible with, and almost identical to, the Gen 1 Festool Systainers but only partially compatible with the Gen 2 T-Loc Festool Systainers. You can lock a Gen 2 T-Loc Systainer to the top of a Makita Case but you can’t lock a Makita Case to the top of a T-Loc Systainer.
Tom D
My head hurts. Half width Packout not working on top of the crate is already confusing enough for me – I’d never be able to keep all these compatibilities straight.
GM
2. It’s just slightly more than a plain hand cart. There are two raised bumps on the folding shelf that keep the bottommost Boxx from shifting from side to side. Admittedly the upper Boxxes must be secured with an included strap, but once the strap is tightened down, the Boxxes are going to stay put. It really is an excellent solution.
5. I don’t think that L-Boxx manufacturer Sortimo has anything to do with Tanos/Festool. Check the Wikipedia article on Sortimo.
Mike McFalls
This is the same approach Makita adopted, shipping the sustainers empty and then leaving it to buyer to find foam inserts or inserts. I get that allows for customization, but it also creates a lot of hassle to the appropriate insert model numbers and then find dealers. It’s a missed opportunity in my opinion. I’d pay a few dollars more for the foam or inserts to be included.
Tom D
If they wanted to preserve the L-Boxx advantage (and tools that fit perfectly in their case have advantages) without the cost of the inset with each tool they could either – modify the packaging so the inset itself IS the packaging; or include a “free L-Boxx offer” with each one – hardly anyone will redeem it and those that DO will be serious fans.
Jim Felt
In the case of Bosch I’ve still noticing their better tools aka not bargain priced kits the boxes are better fitted and still come in their best L-Boxxes.
Maybe in stuff priced (way) over $200-300?
alex
The problem with Bosch is they are trying to emulate what Festool does and sell their tool for a premium. They thought they could sell the LBoxx for the same price as a Systainer and it didn’t work (at least in NA, no idea in Europe). They are trying to do the same with their sander, track saw, …
I love Bosch. They still produce some gem tools like the 12v planner but I feel they lost their identity. High quality tools at a decent price. I don’t understand where they are going with this. It’s like they have no direction. They promised the big arm saw 2 years ago and it’s still not released on the NA market. You can’t be that slow and expect to be competitive.
I think they are probably going to retire the boxes in NA. I can’t find them in store anymore and tstak is a better value in my opinion if you want a light duty box. Bosch used to be very popular here but Milwaukee have pretty much taken their place in most stores.
RD
Absolutely correct here – Bosch switched over to a thinner, frankly crappier version of their LBoxx system and it really burned me. I’d bought a couple to use with the inserts for my 12V system (and the 12v radio, which actually fits in half an LBoxx!), and when I went to buy one recently I ended up returning it. All the flaps and handles are flimsier.
I’m a Makita 18v/Bosch 12v household, but I’m switching to Packout.
Bob
I can see inserts or even containers not being popular with certain often used tools. My impact driver lives in the top draw of my tool box or in a tool bag if Im mobil.
For specialty or delicate measuring tools inserts make alot of sense. For instance my track saw lives in a tough system case. Love the insert for this. I did modify it to fit into the Tough system (came in a t-stack originally).
This should be an easy fix if Bosch is hell bent on penny pinching. Include the tool insert in the little print out of the accesories available for that tool. AND make it available to purchase on the website. AND don’t price gouge. AND….oh hell Just include the tiny piece of plastic ya cheapskates lol
AngryDrumGuy
Ah yes, we called those “parade trucks”. More expensive, but don’t knock things down any faster! I missed the low mile part. Yes, no warranty on used. Sorry the folks around you aren’t receptive. Most dept budgets make penny-pinching a requirement.
Not long ago I saw a newer rig with the DeWalt boxes in a compartment drawer on their wall mount. Slide it forward, grab the case you need and go. The Bosch and Makita boxes have a different look than the Milwaukee/DeWalt/Ridgid stuff. I’m curious if one design is more durable than the other?
AngryDrumGuy
Posted this reply in the wrong place. Feel free to delete, Stuart!
Stephen
I have purchased a handful of 18V Bosch tools over the last few years. Each time there was the option of buying a different SKU – bare tool, bare tool + insert, bare tool + insert + case.
I was never under the impression that the L-Boxx insert was standard equipment. I always thought the insert was optional, where you would buy the specific SKU that included the insert.
Tony
I really like the Bosch L-Boxx tool case. Sometimes the inserts are fine. But sometimes they don’t really appeal to me; so I use Kaizen foam and am able to fit exactly the Bosch power tool and accessories that I want inside the box. I hope Bosch isn’t getting away from the L-Boxx system altogether. If so, it would remind me of Apple’s recent decision to get rid of the power adapter and ear phones for the new iPhone 12. When I received the new iPhone 12 box, it was super thin and I was even more disappointed to hear the contrived reason for it: “environmental concerns”. Yeah, right. We all know it was cost cutting in order to boost profit margin.
Mike (the other one)
Plus Apple can sell for those items for ridiculous prices separately.
Flyer
How difficult is it to work with the Kaizen foam? I’ve read a couple negative comments, without specific reasons, but was considering this option as a way to breath some new life into some relatively unused L-boxxes.
Has anyone tried the inserts?
https://kaizeninserts.com/t/bosch
Good, bad, meh?
Frank D
I have done two kaizen inserts ( so far ) to organize my 12v tools in packout cases. I may do more, or may not. For one the cost is way up there, imho. Secondly, getting the same results does not seem possible. I have watched the videos, have similar knives, I am a crafty detail oriented person who has no trouble to do stuff right, be patient, etc … and both instances … not once did a cutout easily come out in the shape of the cutout, where you would trim a layer depth or two … then when you try to peel it out it just foam shards and slivers; because it does not separate cleanly in layers. You literally tear the foam apart. Not once did it work as I would desire or how it looks in the presentation. Did this twice months apart for two cases. Expected better. But even with imperfect results, I like to have dedicated spots for my new tools.
Toolfreak
I sold all my L-Boxxes along with the inserts and kept the tools. The plastic of the Sortimo ‘Boxxes’ didn’t seem like it was up to taking any abuse, and the inserts were the thin, fragile stuff that is just going to crack and fall apart after awhile.
My main issue with the Boxxes was how much space the inserts took up. Two tools, two batteries, one charger, and a few spots for tiny parts, in ONE case! I can fit LOTS of 12V tools, with batteries, and chargers, in a tool box or larger plastic container without the inserts.
The Sortimo/L-Boxx system makes some sense if you buy the shop/vehicle racks and lots of boxes and want the tools and other stuff organized all pretty and don’t mind all the wasted space, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense otherwise, compared to just having the right size bag/box/container for your unique use case.
I’m guessing Bosch is just abandoning the inserts because it found the majority of users were tossing them and just using the cases without inserts, or making their own with foam. Perhaps Bosch will start selling make-your-own-insert foam kits instead, for a premium price, of course.
Corey Moore
I can see it as a simple cost move. The inserts seem to be the only agreed upon advantage they might have in the modular storage arena, but I can’t imagine they’re competing in said arena with much success, as I can’t even recall having seen L boxes in the wild myself. Why shell out more for an edge that’s not capable of tipping the scales?