Here’s a first-look at the brand new Craftsman 20V Max cordless power tool lineup! Thank you John for the heads-up! – and also thank you to everyone else who wrote in afterwards!
The new Craftsman cordless power tool lineup looks to be based on a brand new 20V Max Li-ion battery.
There looks to be 2 brushless tools to start – a brushless cordless drill, and a brushless 3-speed impact driver. Both of the new Craftsman brushless power tools are described as being Made in the USA with global materials.
Furthermore, looking at the specs, they’re no slouches either – the new Craftsman brushless drill and impact driver look to be very competitively rated, with power, torque, and speed measurements that match up with leading Dewalt offerings.
Reminder: 20V Max tools and batteries run at 18V nominally.
Craftsman 20V Brushless Drill (CMCD720D2)
- 1/2″ chuck
- 450 UWO power output
- 0-500/0-2000 RPM
Price: $159 for the kit
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Craftsman 20V Brushless Impact Driver (CMCF820D2)
- 1/4″ hex chuck
- 1800 in-lbs max torque
- 2900 RPM, 3800 IPM max speed
- 3 speed (and torque) settings
Price: $169 for the kit
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Both kits look to be bundled with (2) 2.0Ah battery packs, with the descriptions saying the charger will fully recharge them in 60 minutes or less.
Note: Final specifications could change. (The drill and impact driver have slightly different figures in the “specs” fields of the product pages.)
Craftsman 20V 8-Tool Cordless Power Tool Combo Kit (CMCK800D2)
Next up, there’s a Craftsman 20V Max 8-tool cordless tool combo kit, CMCK800D2.
Whereas the new Craftsman brushless tools look to be more premium offerings, in terms of power and speed specs, as well as features and sizing, the tools in this combo kit look to be more affordably spec’ed and designed.
- Drill/driver CMCD700
- Impact driver CMCF800
- Circular Saw CMCS300
- LED Worklight CMCL020
- Reciprocating saw
- Oscillating multi-tool
- (2) battery packs
Craftsman Combo Kit Notable Features and Specs
Drill: 280 UWO max power, 0-350/0-1500 RPM
Impact Driver: 1450 in-lbs max torque
Circular Saw: 6-1/2″ blade, 4000 RPM
Reciprocating Saw: 1″ stroke length, 3000 SPM
Oscillating Multi-Tool: 8,000-18,000 OPMs, tool-free attachment system
Jigsaw: 0-2500 SPM, 3 orbital settings, tool-free blade release, works with T- and U-shank blades
Random Orbit Sander: 12,000 OPM
LED Worklight: 120 lumens brightness output
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Compare(Porter Cable 8-Tool Combo kit via Amazon)
Craftsman 6-Tool Cordless Combo Kit (CMCK600D2)
The 6-tool combo looks to have the same tools as the 8-tool combo kit, except for the sander and jigsaw, which are excluded.
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Compare(Porter Cable 6-Tool Combo Kit via Amazon)
Craftsman 20V Cordless Drill and Impact Driver Combo Kit (CMCK200C2-10LW)
You can buy a 2-tool and 2-battery Craftsman 20V cordless drill and impact driver kit, for under $149. I would almost guarantee that you’ll see discounts on the pricing before long, seeing as how you can currently buy a Porter Cable brushless combo kit with better spec’ed tools for around the same price.
Price: $149 for the combo kit
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Compare(Porter Cable drill and impact driver combo via Amazon)
There’s another Porter Cable 20V Max drill and impact driver combo kit, currently priced at $129. The new Craftsman tools strongly resemble those Porter Cable tools, but I would be remiss to point out that it seems the Craftsman kit *might* come with higher capacity battery packs.
Craftsman Cordless Drill/Driver (CMCD700C1-10LW)
This kit is said to come with a CMCD710 drill/driver, CMCB2011 battery, and CMCB100 charger.
It’s said to deliver up to 280 UWO max power, and has a 2-speed 0-350/0-1500 RPM gearbox. This seems to be the same drill/driver included in the above combo kits.
Price: $79 for the kit
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Craftsman 20V Cordless Impact Driver (CMCF800C2)
The standalone Craftsman impact driver looks to be the same as the one bundled in the combo kits, as it is also listed as delivering 1450 in-lbs of max torque.
The drill/driver kit comes with (1) battery pack, this impact driver kit comes with (2). I mention this in case you’re wondering about the pricing disparity.
Price: $129 for the kit
Buy Now(via Lowes)
Craftsman 20V Battery Packs
A manual for the drill/driver mentions (4) SKUs:
I would surmise that CMCB202 is a 2.0Ah battery, as bundled with the brushless tool kits and the CMCB204 is a 4.0Ah battery pack that we haven’t seen yet. The CMCB2011 battery that comes with the $79 drill/driver kit could be a 1.3Ah battery pack, and the CMCB201 could be a 1.5ah battery pack.
There are few more new Craftsman cordless power tools and accessories, but too few details available to mention them just yet.
I think it’s safe to say that some of the design aspects were inspired by current Stanley Black & Decker offerings, most obviously Porter Cable. However, there are plenty of distinctions. I would caution you to not jump to any conclusions based on a couple of product resemblances.
But first, let’s talk about the new brushless tools for a moment.
When you look at the specs, the new Craftsman 20V Max brushless drill and impact driver look very good on paper. While I’m seeing conflicting specs for both tools, the discrepancy isn’t enough to impact my first impression of them, which is very positive.
As mentioned early in the post, the specs of the new Craftsman brushless power tools approach those of main-line Dewalt brushless offerings, albeit with less frills. For example…
The new Craftsman brushless impact driver is said to deliver 1800 in-lbs of max torque, and it has 3 speed ranges, and LED worklights around the chuck. (Lowes also lists a 1700 in-lbs torque rating, but I’m making my judgements based on the higher rating.)
The Dewalt DCF887 brushless impact driver delivers up to 1825 in-lbs max torque. Both Craftsman and Dewalt tools come with 2.0Ah Li-ion battery packs, and seem to have comparable features and sizing.
AND the Craftsman brushless impact driver is marked as being made in the USA with global materials.
Price-wise, the Craftsman kit is $169, and the Dewalt kit’s street price is only a little higher.
Looking at the Craftsman 20V Max brushless drill/driver, which also sports a Made in USA badge, seems to closely resemble the excellent Dewalt DCD791 brushless drill/driver.
The DCD791 kit currently retails for ~$180 at Amazon. On Dewalt’s site, the drill/driver is labeled as being made in the USA with global materials, similar to what’s being said about the new Craftsman drill/driver.
There are differences, such as the absence of the multi-mode LED worklight, and the Craftsman seems to come with a slower charger.
Thus, I would argue that, based on features, specifications, and appearances, the new Craftsman 20V Max brushless drill and impact driver appear to be heavily inspired by current Dewalt compact brushless offerings.
I would like to believe that they could potentially share certain components, since streamlined manufacturing could result in lower production costs. Look at the chuck, for example.
Additionally, the Craftsman motor is said to deliver 450 UWO of power. Even if you go by Lowes’ specs table listing of 410 UWO, that’s still closer to the Dewalt’s 460 UWO rating than the 370 UWO rating for Porter Cable’s brushless drill/driver (PCCK607LB).
Also, the Craftsman brushless drill/driver tops out at 2000 RPM, similar to Dewalt. The Porter Cable can reach up to 1800 RPM max.
What I’m trying to get at is this – the new Craftsman 20V Max brushless drill and impact driver look great on paper. They’re the kinds of new Craftsman cordless power tools that I had been hoping for.
I am VERY EXCITED about the new Craftsman brushless power tools!
What about the other new Craftsman tools?
The new Craftsman cordless power tools are about what I expected – a new lineup to stand in for Sears’ aged C3 19.2V lineup.
Maybe we’ll see a 20V Max to C3 adapter, but that’s uncertain at the moment. What is certain is that Stanley Black & Decker gave Craftsman a fresh start, which is exactly what I had expected.
I get the feeling that Lowes and Craftsman will heavily promote and discount the new non-brushless Craftsman cordless kits and combo kits.
Stanley Black & Decker had a set amount of time to design and manufacture a whole lot of new Craftsman tools, and so I am not surprised to see some resemblances to current Porter Cable offerings. But, that said, there are also definite differences. The ergonomics of the jigsaw, for example, look completely different.
I had hoped to see 2 product families within the Craftsman 20V Max platform – a “standard” lineup, and “Craftsman Pro” tools. But, perhaps in the absence of Craftsman Pro or Professional branding, there will be a line drawn between brushless and non-brushless cordless tools. That seems to be the case now, with this initial launch.
I am also surprised that the battery packs are not as well differentiated as Dewalt and Porter Cable offerings. With the Craftsman 20V Max battery packs, at least those that are visible in the first wave of kits and combo kits, you have to enlarge and squint at the product images to see that the brushless tools are bundled with 2.0Ah batteries, and the other kits and combos are bundled with a slightly different battery.
Not being able to quickly tell a 2.0Ah battery apart from a 1.5Ah or 1.3Ah battery – if there are indeed batteries at those lower capacities – will be a drawback for more in-the-know customers.
What batteries are included with the kits and combo kits? 1.5Ah? 1.3Ah? 3.0Ah?
Overall, I am happy to see that Craftsman followed through with what I had expected, although I am surprised to see a jigsaw, sander, and oscillating multi-tool as part of a larger combo kit.
The new Craftsman 20V Max brushless drill and impact driver, on the other hand, has me very excited about what’s to come. They look good on paper, and they’re built in the USA (with global materials). That’s the big surprise here, and it also raises my hopes. I want to see MORE along these lines.
Now that we see some of what Craftsman has been working on, what do you want to see from them next?
Thank you again to everyone for the tip!
based on that alone I see 2 product offerings – the cheaper lower priced drill,driver and whatever else is a former PC offering while the more expensive higher capability drill, driver and whatever else is a mainline Dewalt offering.
so big question in my mind – since the PC battery set is missing one of the leads and the ability to set balance thus limited to only a single series battery set – and limited power draw. Does the craftsman product use the PC/Black and Decker battery base or does it use the higher output/capacity Dewalt battery base.
I suspect they use the PC system and will always have a slightly limited power capacity. Now is that bad – not necessarily – but it looks like that would be the deciding difference.
OH and the color scheme is a touch interesting. I get that craftsman had been red and the like but still.
OH will these sell at ACE Hardware as well as Lowes?
Details like that will probably come out at the end of the week, when Craftsman has their big media event.
Thomas R Davis
Will the craftsman 20v come out with a bandsaw
I don’t think so, that’s not much of a DIYer tool.
Porter Cable does have a 10-cell battery pack.
From SKUs I found in an online product manual, it seems that that there will be a 4.0Ah battery pack.
I can’t comment on how the battery packs are designed, but I would suspect that SBD set the framework for future expandability and options. Craftsman, under Sears, was a full-fledged power tool brand, and so I would expect to see the same under SBD offerings. I would not expect for SBD to have held back or limited the interface or form factor in any regard.
Well that’s disappointing. Just another new mediocre-at-best cordless power tool line. It was to be expected for sure, but still disappointing. Definitely not switching out my long-in-the-tooth C3 tools for this. Nothing here really appears better than the old C3 ones.
why are newer tools these days look more and more like a transformer or a toy than a tool? the color scheme is cool but looks like a copy of Milwaukee. since they introduced a new line of battery packs, all the older gen models will not be compatible.
it’s near end of 2018 and soon 2019, they should stop making brushed models and just stick to brushless. gotta say, i do dig that new brushless impact driver.
How about battery gauges on the batt or tool?
There are battery gauges on the back end of the batteries. I just discovered this myself today.
Does this spell the end for Porter Cable tools?
I’m guessing this means the death of the Porter Cable 20v lineup. I’ve noticed that some tools such as the Bluetooth speaker and bare tool nailers have been on clearance for a while.
Well it’s nice to see SBD has made a decent effort to resurrect the Craftsman product line. Unfortunately there are just to many SBD “clones” out there with Dewalt, Porter Cable, Black and decker, Bostitch and now Craftsman. Just like General Motors when they offered Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Geo, Saturn and Cadillac all with nearly the same vehicles it didn’t work and over the long term this won’t either. I think SBD needs to narrow down the field a bit within the cordless tool realm and just retain DeWalt as the “professional” grade brand, Craftsman as their Premium DIY brand, and Black and Decker as their entry level stuff, cull the herd and send Bostitch and Porter Cable into the history books. It’s at a point where the buyer can chose the color he likes because everything else is nearly the same except those darn batteries won’t work in the other brands! If they did align the batteries to be compatible a crossed labels then the consumer would really benefit because we could pick and choose among the whole group but that will never happen. Being a bit old school I am more interested in seeing if they push the Craftsman hand tools into the upper high quality Made in USA area, where they once dominated, if they go about it the right way I think they could once again carve out a big following there, but no gimmick tools and really good quality and retain the replacement guarantee of course.
Completely agree. If it were mine to decide I would have rolled PC and CM together into one new company. Possibly make a blended name like PCraftsman, something to retain the history of the two. Rebrand all of the current PC offerings with brushless motors and you’d have my attention.
I disagree that there are too many clones. The Bostitch and Stanley Power Tools haven’t been widely available for a couple years now. If anything is still out there, it’s just old stock. Black & Decker, Dewalt and Porter Cable aren’t in any way shape or form “clones”. The only conflict in the current lineup is Porter Cable and Craftsman and I’d expect PC to just move back into a woodworking specialty brand.
I just recently bought a Craftsman cordless Grinder and Impact wrench and 230 piece Craftsman tools for my vehicle. I loved Craftsman tools but they were always to much for them. But now that they are at Lowe’s and on sale!! 🙂
If i was not already into Bosch for several thousand dollars. I would be all over the new Crafstman.
My only gripe. The red . I prefered the older black colour . Oh well red it is .
Glad to see this stuff hit the market.
I would like to see more of an emphasis on brushless. I know why they still offer brushed, but they aren’t going to win over “serious” tool buyers with that stuff. I had hoped they were going to position themselves closer to being a Pro brand. None the less I will pick up the brushless impact during a good sale. Personally I am hoping for a brushless sander and jigsaw with dust collection.
What do you think the chances are that Sears would offer these? I could see them having supplier issues with their current models.
I would guess that it would depend on what Sears wants to do. Sears is allowed to use their own sources for their Craftsman products. If Sears chose to source/use SBD’s Craftsman stuff, I’m sure it would all end up there, if they stick with their own sources, then we won’t.
I don’t see why Sears wouldn’t want (provided SBD would allow it) to use SBD Craftsman products in their stores. One big reason being that nobody is going to go to Sears and buy Chinese craftsman when they can go other places and get SBD’s global materials stuff. Secondly, I bet if Sears decided to source from SBD, that SBD would include Sears on the Craftsman webpage as a place to get Craftsman products… which, Sears could use the free advertising.
My local Sears has just a shelf left of current-model handheld power tools. I wonder whether they have even done production runs in the last year on many of the tools. It would be great to buy these new tools at Sears since you could probably stack all of their coupons and points to get some great deals.
Sears no longer owns Craftsman. Stanley Black and Decker saved it from extinction. They now own DeWalt, Porter Cable, Craftsman and many other tool makers that uses to compete with one another. The competition used to benefit us as consumers. Now we just pick a tool color that matches or garage. Same company, same Chinese parts ” assembled in the USA”….yeh…..
Lowes bought craftsman not SBD
Stanley Black & Decker bought Craftsman, not Lowes.
Craftsman is only partnered with Lowes.
Hm. This isn’t all that exciting. I was hoping for a line of affordable, lightweight tools, ideally using the old battery format. The new homeowner line is underwhelming – really bulky and those prices really aren’t exciting. The C3 lines needed updating but these tools do not seem that much of an improvement over the old C3 offerings. The brushless ones seem nice but are way to expensive for homeowners, and without a full lineup no contractor is not going to ditch his or her red/green/yellow ones for these.
I’m using mostly Dewalt but also have a few C3 ones. They are absolutely fine for almost all projects, their main downside for me is bulkiness. Really disappointing to not see this addressed. I was hoping for watered down Dewalt brushed offerings.
These are watered down dewalt offerings. I mean let’s face it that’s what PC was in the line up anyway – watered down dewalt offereings.
This is the new PC. I have to say it’s more or less what I was expecting them to do. I mean if someone expected a special unique craftsman power tool offering they don’t know how manufacturing works.
NO way in hell SBD was going to do something like that. I’m amazed these are as close to the Dewalt offering as they are. Now if the batteries are fully interchangeable with Dewalt I’ll be that much more shocked. But I suspect they are more the new PC line.
I do think SBDC is on the right track with the near pro level brushless models. They look(pretty obvious to me anyway) like slightly tamed down DeWalt models. And those are decent tools if not my favourites.
I also think they are actually placing the lower spec’d brushed models right where they belong. Craftsman was never anywhere near true pro specs in power tools. They didn’t play in the contractor sandbox as a rule but you would see guys with them on the job.
It is also why I think the red colour scheme is a good thing. Show up on the job with the neon ray gun Ryobi stuff and see how fast you get laughed at. And it is not as if Ryobi makes junk these days. Some of their brushless stuff is pretty good from what I can tell. It’s that danged green toy gun look. Show up with these new Craftsman models and you will probably at least get a ‘when did they come out with those?’ sort of question.
I do hope they move P-C back to the pro level corded woodworking tool range. They’ve damaged it enough with the…whatever they were doing to it business model.
Made in USA? Enough said. I’m on board…
They are General Motorising the hell out of every brand they have. Oh look! A vaguely different looking tool with some slightly differentiated features so that it can fill the price niche lovingly created for it by some overpaid people with MBA’s that have no clue about what they are selling or even doing.
^This. Buy up the competition, water down the brand, eventually kill the brand. So yeah Craftsman is back…. except now Porter Cable is gonna be dead as a brand. One corporation owning too many tool brands to make any sort of real distinction between most of them.
Btw I like the Porter Cable color scheme better than this red Craftsman.
I said when SBD acquired Craftsman that it was likely the end of Porter Cable.
IF they want the brand to survive they need to expand on their offerings of bench and floor standing tools (and make them high quality).
The cordless market is just too cluttered within SBD itself (Dewalt, PC, CM, B&D, Bostich and probably something else I’m forgetting) before looking at all of the TTI brands, Bosch, Makita, Hitachi and Hilti.
Yep. P-C could also find its footing again as their premier line ofmcorded woodworking tools. This was their reputation for years. Routers, jigsaws, a few decent circular saws, some sort of nice portable thickness planer(handheld too, this segment is basicallly owned by Makita right now), and a good portable bandsaw. I don’t know if there is enough of a market left for corded tools but this is the one nae in their stable that could pull it off.
No brushless, no deal. Craftsmen ship has sort of sailed for me
No wonder SBD hasn’t done anything with the dewalt 20v max line( ok new cordless sander and router are coming,soon) or the Flexvolt line…no show this year too..
Thing is SBD lose so much by ignoring their base Dewalt pro users,many jump ship for Milwaukee or just buy in to some other brand…
I’m very happy to see craftsman cordless “made here” like DeWalt, but so many different lines of tools is ridiculous,as stated above.
One thing is truly revolting,that’s the new craftsman hand tools at Lowe’s Not being made in America,,,the new inventory just sits on the shelf, because no one wants that Craftsman Chinese crap….
Just make quality tools in the USA and the buyers will come back to craftsman,it’s really not that difficult to figure out.
People won’t come flocking back to craftsman just because they slap a USA label on it. Price is also a big factor. If the cost isn’t at least close to the stuff from Taiwan then most people won’t even give it a 2nd glance.
I don’t know about that. I was set to buy new Craftsman hand tools at Lowe’s. When I saw they weren’t USA Made, I had zero interest. Heck, the ratchets aren’t even serviceable. I know several guys here locally excited about the return of USA Craftsman and were absolutely ready to support SBD in their return launch.. Not a single one has bought the new stuff and that’s the only reason. It had nothing to do with cost. Everything to do with not saying Made In USA.
Lowe’s needs to put the brushless Made In USA stuff front and center when this stuff hits the shelves.
Agreed. Made in USA was the Craftman Brand for 80 plus years. Companies spend decades trying to establish a good Brand name and Sears Eddie Lambert watched possibly the best Brand in Corporate history slip away. I read Craftsman Tool sales dropped during the transition to Chinese made tools from 2 Billion a year is sales to 1 Billion. Granted, still a ton of money but Sears could have used that extra Billion. Folks will spend a little more for a good made in USA Craftsman tool that will last a lifetime compared to the cheap harbor freight Craftsman junk at Sears.
No doubt it was one of the best brands in corporate history. Both inside and outside the tool world. It’s still baffling to me. I think most people came to accept certain Craftsman items not being USA Made, but hand tools?? A Craftsman Wrench was an American icon. It was very symbolic. It even lives on forever in a song ‘Made In America’. Even if Lampert didn’t listen to country music he surely couldn’t have been so isolated that he didn’t understand the importance of an American Craftsman wrench and what it represented to the brand, it’s (once) loyal customers and ultimately Sears bottom line. Very bizarre to just throw it all away. We’re talking a wrench here. Not high dollar ticket items like electronics. They could have kept those, their screwdrivers and socket sets USA Made and been just fine.They ultimately lost more money than they saved outsourcing.
Equally as odd, SBD execs apparently haven’t understood this either. A launch of their new tool line without a USA Craftsman Wrench?? It should have been the centerpiece of their comeback.
I would like to mention that Kmart currently runs Sears and gets to make the executive decisions since kart has 7 board of directors and sears has 2. Also, the reason why Sears was able to make Made in USA for so long while companies like how depot and Lowe’s couldn’t is because of money. Sears was losing money on every wrench, socket, ratchet made in usa. (Professional and industrial line are exempt from this). Not only that but Sears didn’t operate their own factories, they technically did own factories when they owned Bradley in the 40s but we don’t count that. Look at all of Sears craftsman tools, most were made by companies who didn’t have their own tools or were limited to one brand. Like old sears bandsaw 113.xxxx they were made by emerson electric. Well, all of sears suppliers and manufacturers left. Also sears did try to see if people bought craftsman for the price or for made in usa, guess what they found out? Ready, people bought craftsman for price, when they introduced craftsman professional which was made in usa with them being able to make a little profit people didn’t buy it, they bought the cheaper $20 Chinese craftsman. Also, what so bad about China, they’ve replaced us as the manufacturer of the world, we wanted to be like Europe well now we are. Yes, I’m only 18 and from the working class but the US wont become like China unless drastic changes happen. Also, today’s China tools are the same quality as 40s and 50s American tools.
I wish SB&D would just suck it up and make all batteries compatible, sell the tool as the differentiation factor, Cheap – B&D, Consumer – Porter Cable, Pro-sumer Craftsman and Pro- DeWalt. I would actually buy something of theirs besides DeWalt. I get the point of who buys Porter Cable but why limit their buying variety? Those consumers would buy more tools if their stuff was more compatible.
AMEN! Absolutely. Why have so many lines using the same style battery but slightly different so nothing is compatible. Greed, that is all.
Black & Decker compact battery packs are 2 for $55. Dewalt’s 2.0Ah come out to be $110 for 2.
There will be users out there who pair the B&D battery with their Dewalt brushless drill, cordless circular saw, or other tool, and then complain when it doesn’t achieve the advertised power, speed, runtime, or other benefits. They’ll blame the tool.
Someone looking to buy a Black & Decker cordless tool might not need the performance or charging speed of a Dewalt battery, and they likely won’t want to pay the higher price either.
When you look at higher-power flashlights, you won’t find AA or AAA batteries at a point, because it’s hard to control what users will put in the flashlights. I have a Fenix that won’t output at its highest levels on alkaline cells, you need NiMH or lithium batteries for the highest brightness. So for higher performing flashlights, you’re compelled to use CR123 cells or rechargeable 18650 li-ion, or something similar.
S,B&D could easily make it so the lower grade brands batteries do not fit in the high demand or top tier tools but allow the better batteries be used in the less than professional brands.
Another option: Just make all of their brands below the premium DeWalt run off the same style battery. The Black & Decker 20v, Porter-Cable 20v, Bostitch 20v, and now Craftsman 20v are all below the premium DeWalt.
DeWALT and Mac Tools batteries are fully interchangeable..
“Another option: Just make all of their brands below the premium DeWalt run off the same style battery. The Black & Decker 20v, Porter-Cable 20v, Bostitch 20v, and now Craftsman 20v are all below the premium DeWalt.”
I agree it’s greed, but it also hurts Stanley Black and Decker because why would I want to buy another product of theirs with in compatible batteries and chargers? I have B& D weed eaters at 20V, Stanley FatMax Drill at 20V, and Porter Cable drill/impact driver at 20V. They all use the same 4-pin connector but they put plastic everywhere not to make them work. It’s not for safety and it’s not because they are not made to work together it’s to screw the customer into having to buy different batteries and chargers. Now they are going to reverse the polarity on these new Craftsman 20V lines. Hmmm – maybe it’s time to switch to Home Depots rigid line, Milwaukee if not for $$$. The Ryobi’s may not be as good but at least they offer an array of tools to weed eaters, wet/dry vacs acrros the line and they all use the same #$%@& 18V batteries !!!
Looks like a Milwaukee, a lot.
Ok I’ll admit it. These actually don’t look to bad. Not something I would go for though. For a homeowner this would defenitley be a step up from harbor freight.
SBD must also really be banking on the Craftsman name to sell these, because they are being carried at Lowe’s which carries their 24v Max Kobalt line, and the Kobalt cordless line looks better in every way than this Craftsman line, and does so at a cheaper price.
I think SBDC has this right. At least from a marketing/launch perspective. While Sears caught DESERVED ridicule for the out and out destruction of the Craftsman brand, it was really the foreign made hand tools that doomed it. No one I know ever associated C’man with pro level power tools. Oh sure, the off rebrand like the Skil77 as one of their Industrial models. But for the most part, they were consumer oriented and heavy DIY. Which is where my sense of it takes me with these tools.
And don’t kid yourselves. Instant eye appeal is huge. This red scheme of the new Craftsman tools would appeal to me MUCH more than the toy ray gun neon green of the Ryobi lineup. Most guys I know would choose the red over that loud green. Consider DeWalt. They were only known as a relic of radial arm saw manufacture til Black & Decker got the genius idea to rebadge their industrial portable power tools under that marquee with its distinctive yellow and black colour scheme. Before that, other than pro users no one even knew B&D still made rugged power tools. That it was successful is beyond doubt.
SBDC can make this work if they do it right. First, place these tools at major retailers and not just at big box home centers. I would do whatever it takes to get them at Amazon, Westlake Ace Hardware, True Value, and of course Lowe’s since they seem to have an accord there anyway.
Second, support the lineup. Do NOT do the bait and switch like we have seen all these companies do. Send out product announcements and then nothing shows up for a year and a half. It will kill the effort before it starts. Make sure retailers have to keep batteries and chargers in stock. At least a few. And while you are at it, throw the C3 guys a bone. If you can make a proper adapter kit for DeWalt you can come up with something for them. This will keep thousands of users in the fold. And will maybe get them to buy into the newer offerings.
And last, just make them decent quality and reliable and you will do alright. Particularly the brushless models. Offer some incentives like better warranties, better deals on batteries maybe, be creative. Then you hit TTI/DH at both the entry Ryobi level and the Ridgid brand too. I own a Ridgid set and continue to be less than overwhelmed by them.
* Trade a working C3 model to Lowes/Ace for donation to Habitat for Humanity, get $X off equivalent new SBD Craftsman tool for your loyalty.
Exactly the kind of thing they should do. Great idea.
YES, YES, YES. You go after your C3 crowd, throw them a bone, and these should sell themselves.
Another “new” Craftsman power tool line – another new battery that won’t fit any of the good Craftsman tools I already own. This is the 6th time it’s happened.
Time jump to Milwaukee. I’ll pay a little more but all the M18 batteries fit all the tools – including their lawn & garden tools.
The previous C3/19.2v line has been around since 2002. I’m guessing you bought into one of the 14.4v/18v/20v-max/24v-max Sears ran concurrently with 19.2v for awhile. In any case you’ll pay a LOT more for M18, not a little more. One other option for C3 users you might consider since they are being abandoned by SBD is going Ryobi One+ and converting C3 tools you already own to One+. You would have to buy the replacement part clamshell, which are generally very cheap, so that it would accept a One+ battery and put your good C3 guts inside. One could even buy some bad One+ batteries for cheap off eBay and put their good C3 batteries inside. That would requiring soldering three wires, but could easily be done.
The bad thing about One+ is the outdated batteries. Their best is still the 10 year old 4.0 battery. The new 6.0 is huge. It’s like an M18 9.0 in size and it does not fit in a lot of One+ tools. Why on earth they didn’t just stick 10 3.0ah 18650 cells in the 4.0 case, I guess we’ll never know.
Just checked. Lowe’s website states that the eight tool combo is “No longer available “. I hope that means “temporarily out of stock”.
My guess is that, even though the pages were up for 4 days, someone saw my post and realized that the listings were posted early, and set them to be hidden until later this week.
Well, I’m all over the brushless ones… I want the belt clips though. It looks like there’s a spot on the sides to mount them so I hope they’re included. I have no interest in the brushed tools. To me it’s like buying a nicad tool. It’s outdated and shouldn’t even exist in a new line IMHO. I’m looking forward to more brushless stuff and a blade right circular saw. I’m not a fan of the blade left above. We’re off to a decent start though for the drill/driver set. As a Craftsman guy I was hoping for DeWalt equivalents and this is good!
As a side note, does anyone know if SBD will be sponsoring the Outlaw racing series now? The other night at the final event it was advertised being sponsored by Craftsman At Sears. Yet I see on the new SBD Craftsman website they’re sponsoring a JGR Nascar #20. So they’re definitely getting Craftsman back into the big leagues of racing.
I love my C3 collection with XCP battery. Perfect for enthusiastic homeowners. You felt like you were getting a quality tool. Not perfect, but close to being with a few mods or adjustments. I loved customizing my collection to suit my needs. I have tools for gardening, inflator, small radio, shop vac. I was pumped to get a high capacity XCP battery. I do not like the change at all. The selection is limited right now and I don’t see the range extending beyond shop tools I personally do not needs, and maybe an odd flashlight here or there. Surprise me and prove me wrong, Craftsman. I long for the old Sears days.
I’m right with you. C3 tools were a little dated, but the XCP batteries really pumped some life back into them. I have a couple of drills, a 1/4″ impact, 1/2″ impact, inflator, circular and reciprocating saws, hedge trimmer, and the stereo/charger combo. For no more than I use them, they are awesome, but as old as they are, I know it’s only a matter of time before I’m replacing them.
Wait – what’s the “Made in USA*” – what’s the star for? Is it because its BS or what? Or “assembled with global parts”
“Made in the USA with global materials.”
This is mentioned in the post in 3 places, 4 if you count the tangential Dewalt mention.
Even if it is made in the USA, it’s not worth it. Only a 2ah battery and only two brushless tools offered. What a joke. Doesn’t even stand a chance against Ryobi.
LOL! Cryobi please.
If no one has noticed, Hitachi has developed quite a lineup of tools under their excellent 18v battery system. Amazon and Big Sky carry the tools and it seems like a new tool comes out early month. IMO, the Hitachi 18v line is the best bang for the buck and their tools are durable and refined. I wish they would go back to their hard case, loved them.
I’ve just jumped into Hitachi. So far only a drill and recip saw. Great quality tools with the best ergonomics (imo).
With a lifetime Warranty in the USA (3 year in Australia), they are definitely worth considering.
Soon in 2018 their 18V/36V multivolt will arrive. I predict it will really shake up the industry. Their lineup will be hard to beat (from what I’ve seen so far).
When it comes to power tools, “Made in the USA with global materials” probably means “Assembled in the USA with parts made everywhere else in the world but the USA”
Just like people expected – this is Porter+Cable looking stuff with some newer/better specs rebranded as Craftsman.
Too bad they didn’t go with a fresher/newer/more modern or even futuristic design over the tired Porter+Cable aesthetic. Oh well. Looks like SBD overall is just going to stick to current designs and stick a Craftsman logo on slightly modified stuff to keep costs down and make a lot of money with the name.
Kind of makes sense to overuse the red and make them look like Milwaukee stuff even though the quality isn’t the same, but would rather have kept the black with red accents of the C3 line.
I’ll be waiting to see if they ever come out with a 3/8″ or 1/2″ impact wrench.
Although I am sure most will not believe me and while this CAN be confirmed if one is willing to spend the time on hold, Black and Decker Stanley with their Dewalt line DOES domestically produce some of the components. About a year ago, I spent an hour on hold to speak with a product manager this information was provided. Now due to legal liability issues, FTC regulations and tracing issues, this is why this is stamped made in USA of global materials.
Is this something to be super excited about? Well ANYTIME Americans are being employed is definitely a positive aspect. However, this is component manufacturing, not so much the assembly work that is a job multiplier.
However to be nihilistic and or say “what difference does this make” defeats your argument of supporting domestic jobs. Remember folks, this could all change if more individuals cared about their fellow citizens rather than the cheapest price. Obviously I am not saying I am perfect myself and as with everyone, have flaws naturally. No one is perfect, even those who claim they are.
Yes, I am disappointed that there isn’t a larger amount of made in USA/made in USA of global materials with the acquisition of Craftsman, Irwin among other brands BDS has acquired. Not surprising as Black and Decker Stanley is full of globalists though. Could be worse, they could have brought ZERO jobs back and moving the remaining jobs to China.
For the longest time, decades to be precise, I’ve always advocated for putting the needs of my country (America) as pivotal above globalism. Yes I am 100% supportive of reciprocal trade and not certainly always supportive of isolation. I’ve seen a great deal of factories close and some like to point fingers (rightfully so in certain situations) yet this typically resolves around price.
Brazenly put, either you want Harbor Freight prices and receive that level of quality or domestic manufacturing with often higher quality. Then at least more Americans are working and there will be less unemployment. Nothing is ever guaranteed, but I much prefer some real solutions than to merely scream about the problem without ever finding any viable solutions.
Most of us know this and the blame game is not only childish, this is also counterproductive. When has yelling at each other online or having shouting matches ever solved anything? This doesn’t, rather creates echo chambers.
I think this will be good for Lowes. I am a retired woodworker and I use Ryobi and they are good for me. I can see the new Craftsman could do the same thing for Lowes.
Since many ideas surrounded the reemergence of Craftsman. What will they look like? Who will be there target market? Pro? Pro-sumer? Home gamer etc etc. Are they made in America? Are they Brushless? Now that they’re here i see a few groans of approval, a lot of grumbling, some nostalgia and a lot of ” I would’ve done this____ instead”. Which is great. Open forum. We are here to discuss ideas. We have a pulse.
If you are already established in a platform Craftsman is not targeting you. They know they are not gonna steal you away from M18 with USA stickers and bright red overmold. They definitely don’t want you leaning away from XR and Flexvolt… definitely. So let’s not worry about where their niche is…the right tools will make their own. The younger generation knows little of Craftsman. They know m18, m12, DeWalt, Ridgid and Makita… They Surges and Stealths, Fuel and Flexvolt. They know Octane and LXT and Sub Compact. Stanley knows this. They don’t want them.
Secondly, SB and D wants your money. At the end of the day, they just want your hard earned cash. That’s it. How do they do this? They say well the more professionally minded consumer likes speed controled Brushless impact drivers. They like 2000 rpm drills with all metal ratcheting Chucks. They like compact. They like fast charging devices. Small batteries with high output. Then they take the homeowner, slap together a bundled kit, throw in a sweet bag to hold them all, stick a sub $500 price tag on it and out the door they go. Basic, bundled tools with all the little lights and multitools look so nice shoved under an Xmas tree…..oh man let’s not talk Black Friday yet. They think they got lucky inheriting CM because now they can market to the nostalgic guy. The guy that invested a few Fridays into the C3 line and some wrenches. The guy that wants his tools born and bred in the good ol US of A.
Thirdly, Who uses Porter Cable 20v tools? Who? Your neighbor? Some guy at work has their $79 drill and swears by it. It’s great for hanging pictures and whatnot. Nobody uses Porter Cable. Ryobi owns that market. 85%-90% of whatever market that is ….goes to Ryobi. End of story. So who really is affected if Craftsman steals that spot? Not Stanley Black and Decker. PC isn’t making money. Craftsman will at first.
Different tool brands that use one standard battery? Not yet. CM to go after Ryobi? Nope. I don’t think anyone will keep up with what Ryobi does. Professional grade? That’s up to the user. Price? There is always room for better pricing. Always. Likability? Who doesn’t love red tools? I would have gone with black. Quality? It is Craftsman. What does this mean for everyone else? It means we will have another cordless offering that will bring to us the same tools most of us have already. Unless you are platform shopping or just want them or want another set or just can’t say no to new tools(like me). I hope they offer a trade in special to get our attention a little more. 20v 20%=off for any traded in working power tool. Get me excited Craftsman. Your new Brushless Impact looks sexy.
Not that I am a big fan of cordless Craftsman power tools, but makes me wonder if all the C3 line is being dumped and this is what is replacing it?
SBD competitors made the C3 tools for Craftsman under Sears ownership.
Sears isn’t dumping C3.
Craftsman, under their new Stanley Black & Decker ownership, is simply starting fresh. Since they aren’t responsible for any C3 tools or designs, what choice do they have?
IDK why anyone would take a chance with these, limited line and availability. I’d rather go with Dewalt or Milwaukee and have an extensive line and have more than one retailer to get them from.
I think you’d be better taking a gamble on Kobalt (over Craftsman) because at least you get cheap batteries and a larger lineup. Surely the target is Kobalt and Ridgid then delete PC who was struggling with an identity for years. SBD doesn’t have a great track record with sticking with a game plan. Luckily for them that they have Lowe’s by the balls and can pretty much do what they want.
Let’s not forget that Kobalt recently essentially dumped their 18V and 20V Max lines when they launched their 24V Max platform.
Of course the new Craftsman line is limited, they’re starting with nothing. I think they have a good selection of basic tools, and am hopeful that they might expand the more premium brushless offerings.
This is the tip of the spear, and it will take a few years to see what SBD makes of the new Craftsman cordless tool platform.
I’m with you Stuart. Premium – Brushless… That’s the Craftsman I’m after.
Also as another post mentioned, a flex-volt type of battery system for everything.
Pretty generous by saying Kobalt essentially dumped their previous line, they outright dumped that line. That’s why I’m comparing them very closely with Craftsman, brands are parallel. Both dumped old platforms and went in a new direction, one via being purchased by another company and one transitioning to a new OEM and a branding refresh. Chervon is very well respected in OPE, that easily transfers to other battery powered tools. Brushless offerings from both, you cannot deny the Kobalt tools are also good tools, look at the reviews. This is coming from someone who HATES Lowe’s, I just can’t deny the line is looking outstanding. I swear that most people have no idea how large that line is because half of it is in select stores(or online only, I don’t really know for sure).
Assembled in the USA, meh…materials and engineering are what make a tool good. You can have just as good QC in China, if you’re supporting American jobs, I can get behind that but let’s not pretend the Chinese only make lesser quality products.
Side by side, Kobalt and Craftsman; I’m going Kobalt unless Craftsman can at least match the power, prices and warranty(I did see the Craftsman lineup was larger than anticipated with an additional light and two nailers, maybe others I missed). Those cheap Kobalt batteries are still using Samsung cells, that alone says a lot about that line. I imagine Craftsman will use LG/Sanyo(Panasonic)/Samsung cells but what will the cost be? They surely wont be lower than B&D, which is more expensive than Kobalt.
If I’m looking at the big picture and comparing all brands; Milwaukee, Dewalt, Makita and Bosch are still leading by a large margin.
Craftsman vs Ridgid, that argument can get interesting.
Was actually hopping for a scenario where SBD would have just made Craftsman tools as all made in USA tools that ran off the same Dewalt battery packs. At this point everyone knows they’re owned by same parent company anyways, doesn’t seem like any reason to make a new battery pack for it. Even with other things like Tstak boxes, they simply change the color and brand without messing up compatibility.
What they’re offering here just seems way too similar to Dewalt stuff, except in red with a new battery pack. Don’t see why I’d want to buy any of this new Craftman stuff instead of sticking with Dewalt.
Something I’m curious about is what impact the new Craftman will have on the Kobalt 24v line. Wonder if Lowes selling the rest of those “4 tool” (phone charger as a tool, lol) Kobalt kits for $90 around prime day has anything to do with clearing out Kobalt 24v stuff to make room for craftsman.
I went Red a couple of years ago and began buying Milwaukee cordless tools to begin supplanting my, many years old, C3 tools as they were needed. I started with a M18 kit buy during the Christmas holiday season and added a few M12 for smaller project work to supplement those.
Now, as the C3 batteries begin to die and stop charging, I have the newer Milwaukee tool to replace it that hopefully will be supported for a number of years to come.
So Stanley Black & Decker basically released stuff they already sell through various brand names, but in red? I’m all for competition, but this seems pointless.
I for one, think the new brushless drill and impact look great. The specs are solid, the look is good, and the name is right. The impact has more torque than my Brushed M18 and that thing is a tank.
I’m hesitantly optimistic about the new Craftsman offerings. I sort of think it will be a miracle if SBD manages not to screw it up like they have other brands they’ve acquired, but there is more hope with them than there is with the failing Sears. At least SBD has resources and will to devote to Craftsman instead of just selling it out and letting it wither and die as Sears has done in recent decades.
I am currently invested in the M18 platform, but only slightly. Just a drill/driver combo with 2 batteries and 2 chargers. I like my Milwaukee tools quite a bit, but because of the price of the batteries and the tools, I’m hesitant to expand. I’m just a homeowner who appreciates quality, so I don’t use them enough to justify the high prices for some of the specialty equipment (like a battery powered hedge clipper). I had a Kobalt 24v Max impact for a short while and the cheap batteries made it really easy for me to imagine expanding my tool arsenal. Almost bought into Porter Cable for the same reason but saw their decline and decided to stay away.
IF Craftsman can deliver on quality and price with this line, I might be temped to jump ship from Milwaukee. I could theoretically justify owning a more expansive line of cordless tools because they cost less. We will see if this becomes the case or not. Being US made helps for sure, even with global materials. My Milwaukees are made overseas with global materials haha.
One thing that makes me hopeful is that I can’t imagine SBD not incorporating some Craftsman version of Flexvolt. The ability to sell craftsman branded cordless table saws, mitre saws, etc is just too tempting. Flexvolt is popular as is. Paint the tools red, put a Craftsman sticker on them, drop the price a slight bit, and I’d heavily consider buying some of them where I wouldn’t consider buying them now.
SBD obviously did something right, since most people complaining about the new Craftsman not being as good as DeWalt, or these not being marketed as Craftsman Professional don’t remember that DeWalt “is” Craftsman Professional and has been for a couple of decades.
I’d like to see these replace PC. I wonder if that’s where they’re going with this re-vamp, since the PC cordless line doesn’t really seem to be working. They’ve already aligned the T-Stak container system between DeWalt, Stanley and Craftsman, so are there going to be T-Stak integrated tool cases soon to incentivize their sales?
There is also an impact wrench (1/2″?), angle grinder, LED area light, vacuum, radio, and higher capacity battery (4ah?) for this line too, and many of the tools also clip onto VersaTrack for storage on a tool wall. All those tools except for the radio and area light look to be Porter Cable designs in red with at best minor changes, if any.
Fichael M. Jox
I wouldn’t mind seeing 12v verions if those Brushless guys…..
To me the casings resemble DeWalt more than the older Porter Cable designs. It will be interesting to see the market direction. I suspect the Craftsman line-up will be paired as the economic line with DeWalt in such stores as Lowes, Ace hardware, Orchard Supply, and so on. I would look for Porter Cable to be phased out.
While DeWalt’s appeal has been greater among contractors and carpenters as opposed to electricians and mechanics, I would bring automotive specific tools such as cordless Ratchets and Square Drive Impacts simultaneously to Craftsman and DeWalt. I think there would still be great appeal to mechanics for a Craftsman branded tool.
That said, if I were betting, I think we’ll see Craftsman marketed as the Consumer/Homeowner brand competing head to head with Ryobi.
I don’t understand what Stanley Black and Decker are doing with this. They already have to many mid line bottom line tools. How is this any different than the porter cable line. Craftsmen used to be the best you could get. I wish they would’ve made craftsmen a premium line. Like a step above dewalt. Compete with maybe festool. Make it so that dewalt batteries will work with it too.
No Craftsman was never the best you could get it was the best the average Joe could get and knew he needed. It was never a pro brand but for now homeowner it exceeded his expectations comfortably
Rhetorical question I suppose, yet I take it the Dewalt batteries/chargers do not work with this unit? If anyone, be it the manufacturer, authorized source or Stuart, can confirm this, that would be great. While I don’t blame Black and Decker Stanley for wanting to make more profits by requiring different batteries/chargers, as a consumer, I am not entirely thrilled either.
Additionally, according to Lowes, the first two items are no longer available. I’ve never seen these items before, so this is new to me.
Lastly and I hope others truly think about it regardless of personal opinions, at least Black and Decker Stanley is creating SOME jobs here. Most electronic items are made in China be it from so called “American” companies such as Google, Apple just to name a few to other foreign companies. American assembly work is a step above than that silly “designed in USA” which creates very few jobs at all.
To put this in perspective, the latest Apple phone retails for well over thousand dollars and there is NOTHING in that unit that has any American made parts, assembly work or anything at all that supports American jobs. Sure there is a Apple store/headquarters, yet all the manufacturing is done in China.
I will try to ask for an official comment, but I would highly doubt cross-compatibility with Dewalt 20V Max.
So SBD releases a new cordless lineup with a seemingly high quality drill and impact driver with a mishmash of middling/uninspired tools of considerably lower quality to back it up?
This is EXACTLY what happened with the Porter-Cable 20v Max line. A surprisingly high quality drill/impact, and nothing else that approached the bar, let alone made an honest effort to surpass it.
Watch out for that black and yellow glass ceiling!
Great, another brand trying to mislead their customers.
ALL of these Lithium Ion tools marketed as 20V Max (some without the max) ARE 18 Volts. First, a single *battery* is called a cell. 2 or more cells together form a battery. An 18V tool typically has 5 cells in series. The common lithium nickel manganese cobalt positive electrode type used in these tools has a nominal voltage of 3.6 per cell, or 18 volts for 5 series cells. The 10 cell packs are 5 series cells in in parallel for double the current (the Amp Hour value). These are most always the very common 18650 size used in everything from flashlights to e-cigs to the Tesla automobile. Some newer chemistry gets the nominal voltage up to 3.7. 3.7 times 5 = 18.5. So how do you get to 20V? Well, the charging voltage is higher than the cell voltage. It must be or it won’t charge. Immediately after removing the battery from the charger the unit will provide a voltage nearer the charging voltage. This is about 4.2V. 4.2 times 5 = 21. And that’s where “max” comes in. If you measure the battery’s voltage immediately after charging you’ll find near 20V. But after a short while it’s down to nominal 18. These companies use nefarious marketing to make the customer think their product is better. 20 is more than 18 so it must be better. In some countries such marketing is illegal. 24V is the same story. 19.2V comes from 3.85 times 5 which represents a similar scenario of maximum at rest voltage when fully charged. It is still 18V nominal.
Far more useful is a Watt-hour rating which sadly most manufacturers do not provide. Let’s say a single cell can deliver 3Ah (3000mAh). (In fact cells as large as 4Ah are available.) This is why Watt-Hours matters. Watts=power, the work being done. 1 cell yields 3.6V times 3Ah or 10.8Wh. 18V times 3Ah = 54Wh. For small wiring as inside these tools higher voltage is easier to deal with than higher current. Higher current requires larger wire. Therefore the trend is to raise the voltages. 3.6V per cell, 5 in parallel instead of in series gives 15Ah. 3.6 times 15 is still 54Wh. The tool would do the exact same amount of work at 3.6 volts versus 18. Does your 18V tool outperform the 14.4? Yes, but not because it’s 18V. It’s because there’s 5 cells instead of 4. A stronger battery is a stronger battery.
Furthermore, the Amp-hour rating is not the same as the nominal or maximum current delivered. A 3Ah battery may be able to deliver 6Amps for a half-hour as an example. This is never specified by these tool companies. You may find your tool performs better with the larger battery. This is why. There’s a maximum the battery can deliver regardless of the Ah value. A 3Ah pack from one company may actually be more powerful than from another. And that can change when the manufacturer uses cells from a different source or newer version. But the ratings of the tool remain the same.
Nominal voltages are a function of chemistry. The typical lead-acid wet cell in your car is 6 cells of 2 volts which gives us 12. Immediately after charging it’s common to measure 13 or 14 volts.
I bought the 20V Max drill & driver kit on sale at Lowes for $89.00 + change with a military discount. This was on Nov 3rd.
Two tools, two batteries, one charger and a bag.
Good deal while it lasts.
I may have missed it, but I assume the new Craftsman 20V Max fully compatible with the old/existing 20V Max, yes?
No. The new line of Craftsman 20v sold at Lowes is compatible only with itself.
That’s what is garnering a lot of negative comments here. I.e. there’s also a new kit put out by Sears Craftsman marked 20v which doesn’t work with any of the new SBD/Lowes tools.
Good grief. I see the other thread now – I’ll go comment there.
these battery powered tools are not craftsman 20v.
they are craftsman v20
they are 2 different tool lines
made by two different tool mfg,
they are both red and black
the v location in front or behind 20
20v sold at sears
v20 sold at lowes and others
the v20 has the most add-on tool line
You’re a little late to the dance with this “breaking news”. i.e. We figured this all out nearly a year ago.