A reader emailed in, asking about the possibility of Dewalt coming out with 20V Max brushless versions of their premium drill and hammer drill.
Chris wrote:
I’ve been thinking about picking up the DeWalt 20v compact brushless hammer drill (DCD795D2). However I’d rather have a brushless version of their premium hammer drill (DCD895). Do you foresee them making one like that in the near future? It isn’t something I need to buy today or tomorrow as I have an older 18v model I can use. However I don’t want to sit around and wait forever for a model that may not come out.
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This is actually a very common question.
When is Dewalt coming out with a brushless premium drill?
When is Dewalt coming out with a brushless heavy duty cordless hammer drill?
When is Dewalt expanding their brushless line with cordless saws, premium drills, and heavy duty drivers?
It also seems that some Dewalt users are thinking of switching over to Milwaukee.
Javier recently wrote in:
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I have the 20v max tools from dewalt. A premium hammer drill and the original impact driver. I think these tools are great but milwaukee seems to have tons of innovation lately and I’ve been wanting brushless tools. I’m thinking of selling my dewalt 20v tools and buying the milwaukee m18 fuel hammer drill and fuel impact driver. I’m also interested in their new fuel tools like the circular saw. What do you think about me switching? Do you know if dewalt is coming soon with comparable brushless tools like a premium brushless hammer drill or brushless circular saw. Should I wait and stay with dewalt? I currently have the 3.0 xc packs and if I switch to milwaukee I would be starting out with 4.0 xc packs, that plus brushless should be a huge difference in run time.
Tools That Are Out Now or Coming Soon
Dewalt currently offers several cordless brushless tools: premium brushless impact driver, budget impact driver, compact drill/driver, and a compact hammer drill. They are coming out with a brushless framing nailer and a new rotary hammer that several sources described as being brushless.
Milwaukee is currently the brushless power tool leader, and offers a range of M12 and M18 Fuel drills and drivers. New brushless saws, a grinder, and heavy duty impacts are coming soon.
Other brands are pushing the brushless envelope further, such as Makita with their automatic down-shifting impact driver. Expect to see new brushless drills and drivers from other brands this Fall.
Dewalt’s Brushless Emphasis is on Runtime
With their premium cordless drill and hammer drill, the emphasis seems to be more on power and the 3-speed gearbox. New premium kits recently came out, pairing the tools with Dewalt’s new 4.0Ah battery packs. This should provide a 33% boost in runtime, compared to kits with 3.0Ah battery packs.
Strategy and Marketing
Dewalt’s premium cordless drills are large and heavy, but they offer features that other brands’ offerings – even brushless ones – lack, namely 3 speed ranges.
Current 20V Max premium drill users who want more runtime are probably more likely to upgrade to a higher capacity battery than to upgrade their still-relatively-new tools.
18V premium drill users will still see a runtime advantage if they upgrade to one of the new 20V Max 4.0Ah premium drill kits.
Prediction
Dewalt is most certainly exploring ideas about how to best develop a brushless premium cordless drill/driver. I would even bet that prototypes have been developed and are currently being tested.
“Brushless” is a very hot buzzword right now, and that won’t change anytime soon. If Dewalt does not eventually release brushless versions of their premium drill/driver and hammer drill, they potentially stand to lose market share to Milwaukee and other brands.
Although, they probably already are losing market share to Milwaukee. Ignoring whether you already bought into either brand’s battery platform already, would you rather use Milwaukee’s brushless drill/driver that is smaller, lighter, very powerful, and long-lasting, or Dewalt’s brushed premium drill/driver that is bulkier, heavier, very powerful, and with its 3 speed settings?
Head-to-head, Milwaukee’s Fuel drills seem more appealing, except for the 2- vs. 3-speed gearbox.
That all said, I do not think Dewalt is planning to release a brushless premium cordless drill/driver or hammer drill in the very near future, or even in the next 4-6 months. But in my opinion, it’s definitely on the way.
A while back I posted about how Dewalt and other brands were slinging mud against each other through YouTube videos. Dewalt tried to show with chuck-to-chuck testing, speed of application testing, and cement mixer durability testing (yes, seriously) that their premium brushed motor cordless drill driver holds up well against Milwaukee’s brushless model.
One of the takeaways from Dewalt’s videos was the idea that their premium drills don’t need brushless motors in order to be competitive. Interestingly, those videos have been taken down and marked as “private.”
The reality is that brushless premium drills are coming. They have to be. Brushless is too big of an influential marketing keyword for brands to ignore.
Milwaukee pushed the boundary, and Dewalt and other brands will have to respond accordingly. That’s just how it is. Otherwise their brushed-motor cordless tools will look stale and outdated to users accustomed to be seeing heavy marketing that lauds the benefit of brushless motors.
For instance, Dewalt has been advertising their compact brushless drills as EXTREME RUNTIME!! with up to 57% more runtime. Marketing like this has users thinking brushless = best and brushed = not the best.
To Wait or Not to Wait?
I have discussed this before, but there will always be better tools on the horizon. If you must have a brushless heavy duty cordless drill, go with Milwaukee’s M18 Fuel. Personally, I wouldn’t wait for Dewalt to come out with a brushless version of their premium drills. There’s no telling when the tools will be released – assuming they’re even in active development right now – and even then availability might be questionable.
That all said, Dewalt’s premium drills are very well built and highly capable. They could be improved in regard to size, weight and runtime, which are all aspects where a brushless motor upgrade might be able to help.
Why Wouldn’t We See A Brushless Version?
There could be challenges in improving runtime, as well as reducing tool size and weight, without diminishing peak power output. Cost is another potential issue. There wouldn’t be much benefit if Dewalt couldn’t produce a brushless heavy duty drill without doubling retail prices.
colin
With how awesome their 20v Max stuff performs, it’s hard to imagine a need upgrade. My only qualm is battery life, and the 4.0 batteries solve that…
tor
A brushed high torque cordless drill is cheaper to make and high/low speed torque is better.
Michael Quinlan
For me, DeWalt dropped the ball in the transition from their 18V stem-pack line to their 20V Max slide-pack line. Back in December I needed to replace a few DeWalt 18V tools, and would have happily stated gradually switching to 20V Max in the process, but the tools I need to replace weren’t all available as 20V Max tools, and I want about to but new 18V tools, believing it to be an investment in a dead-end product line. After seeing a first-hand demo of Milwaukee’s 18V Fuel line compared to DeWalt’s 20V Max line, I made the switch to Milwaukee and replaced ALL my DeWalt 18V tools, and sold my DeWalt tools before their value plummeted to zero.
2-3 years ago, DeWalt was similarly begins the curve with 12V tools, but the ergonomics sold me instantly – they were worth the wait. I recently tried to switch to Milwaukee’s 12V Fuel line, but despite their higher power and runtime, and other features, I stayed with DeWalt primarily due to ergonomics.
Given my history, I believe whatever DeWalt comes out with to compete with Milwaukee’s Fuel line, I expect it will be with waiting for.
Jason
Dewalt should have pushed the changer over from stem-pack to slide packs sooner it should have been 2-3 years before the actual 20v line release. Like you mentioned also they should have had a better lineup of tools at release also they just put out a jobsite radio after 3 years, and they still haven’t released a portable bandsaw yet. I know they have the Cordless Framing nailer on sale in Europe, but I’m amazed they haven’t released a 20v trim nailer the cordless trim nailer made the Dewalt line nice for carpenters. I really think they should have made stem pack to slide pack adapters.
Jason
I think it might be awhile before we see an update on the premium drill. The market has been pushing for lighter tools with better run time. I had that Dewalt Premium drill for awhile before I jumped on the Fuel bandwagon that drill is just so big and heavy. I think we might even see Milwaukee release a compact Fuel drill like the Dewalt brushless that is out now if you look at the Dewalt compact brushless drill and Fuel drill side by side the Dewalt looks tiny next to it and its a good pound lighter than the M18 fuel. I like Milwaukee and they seem to update their tools quicker than Dewalt has been we should see the Brushless saws on the store shelves soon. Sorry went kind of offtopic there for a second getting to the point about a brushless premium drill I think we are at least 2 years away from it being put on the market in my opinion if Dewalt even thinks it’s worth updating the premium drill.
Stuart
I haven’t spoken to anyone at Dewalt about the matter, but there could have been too many potential issues if they made stem-pack to slide-pack and slide-pack to stem-pack adapters.
If you look at the other brands, everyone has made the jump to slide-style battery packs, and I don’t think any ever came out with battery platform adapters.
Marketing and strategy considerations for not creating an adapter aside, it seems easier for Dewalt to design the current generation of tools around the current generation of battery packs.
It’s not just about technical considerations, but user experience factors such as tool balance and ergonomics.
Regardless of how much Dewalt 18V users moan and groan about the brand creating a whole new non-compatible 18V platform – AKA “20V Max” – there is no other way it could have gone down. The 18V platform tools were designed around NiCd battery packs, except for maybe a few that were adjusted to better fit the smaller “Nano” Li-ion batteries. The 20V Max tools were designed, or at least redesigned, solely around Li-ion battery packs.
It is possible that Milwaukee will come out with a compact M18 brushless drill/driver, but they do have a 1/2″ chuck M12 brushless model that delivers a respectable 350 in-lbs of torque and is smaller and lighter than any 18V compact model on the market.
Jason
I didn’t really have that issue when I was looking to upgrade from my Ryobi set of tools to something more powerful and pro oriented. The issue of having 18v Dewalt tools wasn’t an issue. I will say they have dealt with the issue somewhat that some tools do have the ability to take both types of batteries like the radio’s and cordless Vacuum.
The only reason I mentioned it is if they had an adapter people have been like hey this makes sense I can keep my old tools and move on to the new and better stuff Dewalt is offering. Now having that cut off may make a person think it might make more sense to sell my old kit and see what the other tool brands are offering. I doubt my thinking play’s into peoples buying decisions that much, but if they did have and adapter kind forces you into keeping with with the Dewalt brand. Tool brands are like pickup trucks people have insane brand loyalty so my thinking isn’t what the majority of the tool buying public is thinking.
Your are right no other company did make an adapter either during their transition from stem packs either. Dewalt is still a huge brand don’t get me wrong but for a good 10 years they dominated the cordless tool market. Other brands that were not as popular back during the nicad have really grown in market share during the migration to lithium batteries, so having a cut off wasn’t as hard as they didn’t have the built in market share like Dewalt had. We might not be having this conversation if Dewalt had done their conversion closer to when the other brands made the switch. It would be easy to play it off as everyone is doing it. I guess its like the old saying you either rip the band aid of really quick or really slow.
Chris
I think everyopne is going crazy over the word “brushless”… stand back and think for a second… as a contractor, a serious contractor and not some tool junkie like most here and other forums seem to be and think… Just because Dewalt is not going crazy releasing 20v brushless saws,grinder’s and whatever going to switch over and spend big money to have the latest and best… NO. Most people are still using all of dewalt’s old 18v volt system… It’s reliable, cheaper and batteries and tools out there used everywhere to no end, it’s probably still the mosy widely used system out there today
Dewalt I think is focusing on like mentioned earlier, runtime, ergonomics, and compactness in the lineup right now. They are pushing the most common tools used ATM because it’s really what the market is looking for. Cordless circular saws, grinder’s, are still really not widely used by pro contractor’s out of the guys I know and i’ve seen because they have the corded versions of these tools that are 10 years old and work like new so see no need to upgrade… Remember most DIY and homeowners still by cheap black and decker stuff
Milwaukee is pushing the brushless lineup to grab everyone’s attention because brushless is big but don’t expect these tools to fly of shelves in droves either… I would imagine Dewalt has all these in the works like probably most of the big power tool companies but chose to go after the compact lineup first because it’s the most popular… I still think a 12v lineup are not that big of sellers… People see 12v they think weak tools and unless they are in the know tool wise they won’t bother with them… people want 18/20V systems…
Milwaukee would have a better chance of catching dewalt by making tools like nailer, planners, table saw’s… Tools they don’t have anywhere in the lineup, tools that sell in droves to pro’s and diy guys everyday
Stuart
You are right in how a lot of contractors still use older tools that work just fine. Especially in this economy, a lot of workers are not upgrading to the latest and greatest.
But a lot of people are still buying new tools all the time. Older tools are wearing down, and battery packs are reaching the ends of their lives.
“Brushless” is not a gimmick, and brushless tools do offer substantial upgrades over brushed motor tools. The latest generation of cordless tools don’t quite replace corded versions, but in some cases they are coming closer than ever before in terms of performance. Manufacturers are describing some of these new brushless cordless tools as being just as powerful as cordless tools.
“Brushless” tools are not aimed at hobbyists or enthusiasts, they’re aimed at professional users. The $99 NiCd holiday specials are what Dewalt markets towards the DIYer market.
All of the sales associates I’ve spoken with agree that 12V tools are not as popular as 18V/20V Max tools. The exception seems to be with Milwaukee, but that’s also because Milwaukee has such a wide range of tools in their M12 segment. This could also be why Dewalt is expanding their selection of specialty 12V and 12V-compatible tools.
Milwaukee isn’t looking to grab attention, in my opinion. A lot of their cordless products had become less competitive compared to other brands’ newer, fresher, and even better designs. Rather than minor upgrades, they waited a little longer and pushed forward major upgrades. As for why they don’t release certain types of tools, that plays into their unique strategies, which really seems to be working for them these past few years.
Chris
I know brushless has turned a lot of these tools into real good tools, but some of these premium cordless tools are expensive compared to the cheaper more powerful corded counterparts…And like you said in this economy, money is everything. Cordless has their place for sure just not sure if a lot are going to go head first into a lot of milwaukee’s releases…
Not just dewalt is taking their time in the brushless market besides your basic tools… Their all using Milwaukee as guinea pig really…
matt
Using a company like Milwaukee as a guinea pig is a bad idea. they should use there black and decker line for that. They cant get any reliable info on Milwaukee’s products its all guessing.
Kinda like the big three waiting on the prius to fail. Now they all get to play catch up with the technology.
I dont think Dewalt is letting anyone test the market. They are just following their plan of riding on the contractors market that just flat out cant leave dewalt because they have put out cheap tools that lasted for allong time.. never really great tools, usually bulky awkward crappy tools. But if you have a 100 batteries and 25 chargers and 50 drills you just cant leave so you buy the crappy recip saw from dewalt..
I know where I work the choice was made to only allow one product line. to cut down on what is stocked(why anything is stocked I dont know). So they stock and continue to use gutless low run time 18v Nicad Dewalts. In theroy If my battery dies on job I can just use “Moe’s” battery. In reality If a battery dies “Moe” cry’s like a baby because I stole his battery. Meanwhile my battery is always dead because “larry” takes mine and never charges any.. I know other contractors that have the same issue and try to align all their products..
Chris
I think Dewalt is waiting back and watching the market to see what happens with Milwaukee before rushing tools to the market, no sense to release tools and have them bomb on shelves
Stuart
It is certainly possible that they’re watching competitors and their own sales numbers closely. After all, they’re not going to want to compete with themselves, assuming the premium drills and kits are selling as well as I believe they are.
Chris
Like I can get the bare tool premium hammerdrill right now here in canada for 89 bucks, brushless or not that’s a damn near steal considering i think it’s quite comparable to the Milwaukee in power…Big or not for the amount of times i’d ever need it… It’s perfect
Chris
Unless really if you HAVE an absolute need or just getting into the tool market and need this selection Milwaukee has then go for it, but I wouldn’t to a whole new company because they are late to the market because of a brushless grinder, or circular saw… tools I would probably never invest in because the corded versions do everything better anyway
Javier
Seems like some of these comments are directed toward my feelings of switching. Though it may seem unnecessary for some to switch to brushless and to an even further extent switching brands, I am not alone. To me having brushless isn’t about just having the latest and greatest, it’s about run time. You can argue that we can just use a corded tool if we need longer run times but I hate hunting down power outlets, I hate hauling around an extension and that includes wrapping it, storing it, unwrapping it at the job site, having the extension becoming a trip hazard for me, other workers, and clients, wrapping it up for transport in the vehicle and it being an extra tool taking up valuable space in my vehicle.
I have the DCD985 and although I have never complained about it’s power, even on speed 3 torque is amazing, I have run into heavy duty jobs where it’s run time did let me down. And that’s with the 3.0 packs. A let down to me is where the pack drains quicker than it can be charged. Those occasions in which you are sitting around waiting for the batteries to finish charging (2 battery packs one depleted and one charging). Now I could get a 4.0 pack and problem solved, right? Well not necessarily as with longer run time comes a longer charge time canceling out the benefit, I would still be in the same situation. Brushless would provide me longer run time without the need for larger batteries.
Now onto another benefit for brushless tech for me is a more compact, shorter, and lighter tool. Because of its size and weight the dcd985 is my least used cordless drill. Switching to some thing like the Milwaukee fuel hammer drill might not change that but it would help.
Im not trying to push others into switching to brushless or even switch brands. I am just stating reasons why it makes sense for me to switch.
I see cordless as the future in power tools. With improvements in battery tech and motor efficiency, one day the cord for many portable power tools will be obsolete. We’re not there yet but with brushless tech we definitely are a step closer.
Chris
The 4.0ah batteries make a huge difference in runtime… My father in law has 2 of them and they won’t die. They don’t take a whole lot longer time to recharge either then the 3.0ah. Cordless tools have come along way but still can’t replace a corded tool. Go to any job site in NA and they are littered with them bc they are cheaper, more powerful and everywhere… Like no recip saw that’s cordless will go through wood like my corded Dewalt… Or a circular saw… A Corded circular saw can’t be beat by any cordless in price, power, blade availability etc…. A cordless can do great things but if your doing regular work with these tools a Corded wins everything… But if you need to switch go got it but the majority of the market is going to stick with what works for them…
Javier
The 4.0 packs give up to 33% more run time for about I believe an extra 15 minute in charging time. Under heavy use I would still find myself waiting a bit for the batteries to completely charge. That’s why I need brushless. I get it loud and clear about the benefits of corded tools like power, unlimited run time, and cheaper. But Im still going to get a brushless drill. For most of my drill needs I’ll stick to cordless as for most of what I do, a cord would only make my job more difficult.
I’ve been to many job sites and cordless drills dominate the scene. The few corded drills I’ve seen are specialty drills like hole hawgs, roto hammers and such.
A corded tool doesn’t win everything. It has pros and cons just like cordless has pros and cons. I get the message loud and clear corded is the only way for some and that’s fine, Im not trying to convince anyone to switch. Ill stick to what works for me.
When I was talking about cordless tools making corded ones obsolete I was talking about portable power tools. I also said they aren’t there yet so no need to argue about how how cordless won’t replace a corded tool like a circular saw or recip saw or any high current draw power tool at the moment because we are on the same page.
Joe
I’m a big fan of Milwaukee’s M12 line. One thing that I can say for sure is that brushless motors in those tools made a huge difference. Literally night and day.
I also use a 20v max dewalt as my big drill. I picked up the DCD950 last fall for pretty cheap. I’ve also used the M18 fuel with the smaller batteries. I don’t know that I could give up my 3-speed gearbox. I don’t know if Milwaukee’s M18 fuel is more powerful or not but the one thing that I did notice when using a holesaw was that I was missing my 3 speed gearbox. The 20v max is no slouch but I could always use more power and runtime. I’m rough on my cordless drills.
Chris
http://www.dewalt.com/uploads/dewalt/CMS/XR/index.html
Looks like Dewalt is launching more this fall in the XR lineup
Stuart
If I had to guess, I’d say they’re going to come out with brushless compact 1/4″ and 3/8″ impact wrenches. Such tools require little redesign and development, as they can be based off the same motors and gearing used in the new budget impact driver.
The new rotary hammer has been confirmed as being listed as brushless in some Dewalt catalogs, but they have yet to comment on that matter. That might list it as an XR model as well even if it has a brushed motor since it’s bundled with a 4.0Ah battery.
Chris
The premium drills on Dewalt website also now contain xr batteries with the kits so maybe it’s a sign the brushless version’s are coming
Stuart
Actually, that might be a sign that the brushless versions aren’t coming.
The compact drills are still only kitted with 1.5Ah batteries. Dewalt probably wants to keep the brushed motor compact drill kits at lower prices so that users with higher budgets and more demanding runtime needs look more towards the brushless kits with 2.0Ah batteries.
The premium drills are now kitted with 4.0Ah batteries, which I don’t think Dewalt would have done if brushless premium drill models were imminent. If such upgrades were in production and scheduled for release in the very near future, Dewalt probably wouldn’t have upgraded the kits to include the high capacity battery packs, they would have instead created a larger runtime gap between brushed and brushless kits.
Chris
Well all the big drill kits with the 3.0 have discontinued and we have only been seeing xr batteries come with brushless tools
Greg W.
All I know is that you do get super fantastic run times with the brushless impact drivers (dewalt, Makita). Double the run time of non brushless. 4amp batteries are a great idea. I will always pay the extra cash for the brushless vs non if given the choice. Bring on the brushless !
joe
I believe dewalt is fairly new to the brushless technology so has not yet found the balance between brushless and high torque to come out with a brushless premium drill just yet.
Milwaukee and Makita (among other brands) have been using brushless technology for years. From what I can see physically, high torque brushless motors have bigger field and armature.
The size can’t be a patent issue since festool drills have them too.
I believe dewalt will come out with one eventually after it finds the best balance for brushless size motor and battery use.
One thing that I like about dewalt is that it likes to wait to learn from other technology errors to come out with theirs…at least that is what I believe.
So my prediction is that dewalt will come out with one 100% sure and I will buy it 🙂
joe
Here is a link to show the brushless motor size…size does matter when it comes to torque…:)
http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=fdbae08e00cd1d90ddc287ff00a1fa85&topic=1236.0
Stuart
As with brushed motors, the larger the brushless motor, the higher its peak torque.
Off-topic, but perhaps interesting since the topic of motor size came up: A certain company sent out their brushless drill and a competing brand’s brushless drill and asked some reviewers to do a comparison. Of course the heavy duty drill was shown to be more powerful than the compact model. The company then used testimonials in their marketing.
Size does matter, but small brushless motors are typically purposefully small.
joe
One more thing…if you look at the festool c12, you can see that the brushless motor is a hybrid of a common brushless motor. That brushless motor has permanent magnets and it looks to be like your typical canned motor. So that alone goes to show how the brushless motor can “evolve”.
Motors with rare earth strong magnets are more efficient than motors with coil “magnets”….
If dewalt finds a good brushless motor supplier, combined with it’s 3-speed transmission = king in the brushless premium drills.
Joe
There has to be a reason why Dewalt hasn’t announced a brushless premium brushless drill. I would pay a premium for a brushless three speed drill and I’m sure that I’m not alone. Makes me wonder if its a longevity issue.
Over on electrician talk there have been quite a few M18 fuel drills burning up chucks. People seem to think that the motor puts out more torque than the chuck can handle. Stuff like this obviously isn’t going to be an issue with smaller drills.
Chris
Just ordered myself a 985 bare tool on ebay for 100 bucks… Needed a big drill to do some bigger jobs around the house. Thing is I only have 4 of the smaller 1.5ah batteries… Will this be a problem? What will the runtime be like on this power hungry drill
Stuart
It’s hard to say. Power draw is typically proportional to loading. That’s why no-load runtime is going to be a lot different than when a drill is run continuously under load. For bigger jobs you might go through batteries quickly, but since you have 4 compact packs I wouldn’t be too concerned. If it proves to be a hassle to go back and forth to the charger you can always pick up a 3.0Ah or 4.0Ah battery pack, though it will cost more than what you paid for the drill itself.
Javier
You won’t be disappointed with that drill. I did find one on eBay for As low as $67.88 buy it now price with free shipping. Also a bunch of power sellers for $69.99. I have that drill and both compact 1.5ah and 3.0ah packs. The drill works fine with the compact batteries. Just don’t expect to hammer drill many holes in series with the compact batteries. I learned that the hard way and the 3.0 fat packs help a ton when hammer drilling.
Chris
I can usually get one on ebay (a 3.0) for like 75
Isaiah
You can expect Dewalt’s premium brushless drill driver/hammer drill to be out around October. It is scheduled to be released in October but these types of things can always change.
avery
they’ve released a premium brushless drill its the dcd995
Stuart
Yes, and thanks for the reminder, here is the ToolGuyd preview of it.
mike
I prefer Dewalt over Milwaukee simply because I’ve had both. Milwaukee products are good, but I don’t believe they are as durable and long lasting as Dewalt. I work for a school district for 17 years and most of our cordless products are Dewalt. We are now starting to go to Either makita or bosch. I still prefer Dewalt over Milwaukee any day. Milwaukee, however makes better corded products.