Dewalt will soon be coming out with a new 20V Max Atomic Series brushless 3-speed impact driver, DCF850, and… WOW that’s compact!
The new Dewalt 20V Max Atomic impact driver measures under 4-inches in length, which is great for working in tight spaces. Its spec sheet puts the exact length at 3.97″.
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Dewalt rightly emphasizes that their new Atomic Series impact driver doesn’t sacrifice performance for size either, as it delivers up to 1,825 in-lbs in max torque.
For a bit of context, Dewalt’s long-time 20V Max premium brushless impact driver, DCF887, also delivers 1,825 in-lbs max torque, but measures 5.3″ long.
What this means that Dewalt engineers managed to reduce the length of the tool by just over 25%.
As an aside, I remember a Dewalt engineer describing how reducing the length of their impact driver by 1/4″ was a prideful achievement. With this new DCF850, they’ve taken more than 1-1/4″ off the length when compared to their now second-most compact brushless 3-speed impact.
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The new Dewalt DCF850 Atomic impact driver features 3 speed and torque settings, a 3-LED worklight, and a belt clip.
Dewalt DCF850 Features & Specs
- 1/4″ hex bit chuck
- 1,825 in-lbs max torque
- 3,250 RPM max speed
- 3,800 IPM max impact speed
- 3 speed and torque settings
- 3-LED worklight
- 3.97″ length
- Weighs 2.1 lbs (tool)
- Removable belt clip
At the time of this posting, it looks like there will be 3 purchasing options:
- DCF850P1 (1) battery kit
- DCF850P2 (2) battery kit
- DCF850B bare tool
The DCF850P1 kit comes with a tool bag, 5.0Ah battery, and 20V/12V Max charger.
Price: $199 for the 1-battery kit
First Thoughts
Hold on a second, while I pick up my jaw from the floor.
Like many of you, I’ve heard rumors and seen fuzzy low-res images that didn’t quite look official. But, it’s actually real – the DCF850 is coming, and it’s a big deal.
Over at Acme Tools, they have now started taking preorders for the 1-battery kit.
This is just… wow.
Dewalt kicked off the 20V Max Atomic series with the DCF809C1 impact driver kit. That impact driver measures 5.1″ in length – which indeed makes it more compact than their typical flagship model DCF887, and it delivers 1700 in-lbs of max torque. The DCF809C1 kit comes with a battery and 1.3Ah battery.
In contrast, we now have the new Dewalt 20V Max Atomic impact DCF850, which matches the max speed and torque of their flagship model, and is also dramatically more compact. Plus, it has 3 speed and torque settings, making it a more premium-positioned model.
On top of all that, it’s bundled with a 5Ah battery, which should provide for considerably long runtime.
This new model definitely seems like it deserves some kind of sub-product family classification, such as “Dewalt Atomic XR Series,” as it doesn’t seem right to consider it side by side with the existing often value-focused model.
Hypothetically, I would love to see a compact battery version of the kit, one where it’s potentially paired with a compact 2.0Ah, 3.0Ah, or even 4.0Ah battery.
Pairing such a compact impact driver with a 10-cell battery seems unconventional, but it also slams the point home that this is a premium tool.
My absolute favorite 18V/20V Max-class impact driver is the Metabo HPT Triple Hammer. Compared to that model, this new Dewalt Atomic impact is still a full 1-inch shorter in length.
The new Dewalt Atomic impact driver looks amazingly compact, and what’s more impressive is that there don’t seem to be any compromises. What’s the catch?
I know that a lot of you have been excited over the new impact ever since the first images were leaked online. What do you think about the new Atomic impact driver now that we have official images and specs?
Are you excited about the new Dewalt 20V Max Atomic impact driver?
There’s no official release date yet, but Acme Tools is now accepting preorders.
See More Dewalt Atomic Series Tool News. Speaking of which, I’d bet we’ll start seeing the first round of Dewalt Atomic series hand tools as the holiday shopping season approaches.
Rog
Impressive, Dewalt.
RI Guy
The acme tool link is bad
Jared
Dang it. Now I want to return my new 887! 😄
That looks crazy! It’s so short it almost looks like a right-angle impact driver.
I think the biggest surprise of all, at least for me, is that this new ultra-short impact still boasts such high torque numbers. I wouldn’t have thought twice if Dewalt came out with a compact but weaker model like Ridgid’s subcompacts.
Alex
Do you think we’ll see an updated 12v Xtreme impact with a similar form factor?
Stuart
I tried to think it through, but I’m stuck at 50:50. So… maybe? I’m not confident enough to bet on it.
Joshua Morris
Hoping this means new regular impact with more power and more settings
Jon
I find this irritating more than anything. I already have enough impact drivers scattered about, and now I have no choice but to add several more.
Goessman
So true; my girlfriend makes me decide the tools or her….
csroc
I don’t need to replace my 887. I don’t need to replace my 887.
Jay
Same!
SP
Somehow, as I see this midget, I feel an urgent need for another one…
CountyCork
Dewalt should work with Bosch and add the Freak hybrid anvil.
Nathan
WOW. that’s impressive. I’m waiting for the atomic version of the 12V extreme impact wrench.
I almost want one – I mean if it’s the torque and speed of my 887 and it looks like it – that might be nify.
one issue I see is that the trigger is now 1 inch closer to your working location and that might pose placement issues. so great for most use – and might be just too close to a obstacle on rare occasion. Interesting.
Adam
they will now hit their ultimate goal of selling more extension bits
Cr8on
Probably more profitable per unit!
Ed
My immediate reaction was that smaller/lighter = unquestionably better. Didn’t cross my mind until your comment that having one’s trigger finger too close to the work surface might be problematic in some situations.
Clearly the best course of action would be to field test it, and dad always said, “Don’t put off until tomorrow that which you can do today.” 😉
Kevin
Am I the only one who thinks this race to see who can make the stubbiest impact driver is a little silly. Granted, usable power has hit a ceiling in the sense that 1700 to 2000 in/lbs is as torque as 1/4 hex drive has any business having. Anything requiring the upper limits of that need to size up to a tool with a larger drive. I digress, but still, I’d prefer to see more useful drive modes than just seeing them keep shrinking the tool. All we really get (with the exception of makita) is sometimes they’ll have a self tapping fastener mode, that works decently, but definitely fails to activate on occasion. Idk it could be just me but a soft start mode, better soft tapper mode, etc. would be more welcome upgrades. Idk that people are thinking: “you know what I could really use? Another small fraction of an inch shaved off my impact driver!”
fred
They probably are missing an opportunity to develop cordless impact guns for production environment use. How about a gun with auto reverse once a preset torque setting is reached. We used Hios corded tools that did this – for inserting threaded insets and helicoils.
A better tapping gun that started on the push stroke and reversed on pullback (like the old Bosch corded) might sell too. Even with well lubricated spiral gun taps on deep through holes you sometimes need to do a lot of back and forth to clear chips.
MM
I agree, at least to an extent. When I first saw these pics I was impressed with how small they made the tool. But it was a flash in the pan. I then started thinking about where I would find this useful, and honestly 99% of the time I’m using an impact driver I have plenty of room. I’m still using an older Dewalt DCF895 and I don’t have any complaints about it, it suits my needs just fine and I feel no reason to upgrade. There are times when I’m working in tight quarters, usually on automotive or similar applications, and in those cases I use either my installation driver or a cordless ratchet, both of which get into even smaller places than this tool.
That said I’m sure there are some applications that this is absolutely perfect for. And there’s also the fact that this technology will likely cross over to impact wrenches too. It wasn’t long ago that DeWalt announced the 12V Xtreme compact impact wrenches, I can only assume that the new 20V models aren’t aren’t far behind. In my opinion compactness is far more important for the average automotive task than it is for the average construction task.
Vlad
Information about DCD703 will be !?
DaveinMD
Unless I am in a really tight space, I don’t see the advantage of the smaller/shorter driver. I feel like I would need longer bits.
aaron s
the add campaign should be a montage of tradesman bandaging their knuckles and then a voice over saying “Do you believe us now? Dewalt. Tougher. Stronger. Smaller.”
Mr. X
Excellent point. In a shop setting, one can get away with longer bits to offer knuckle clearance and visibility. In a construction setting that’s not always possible. I’ve had my trigger finger pinned while drive a screw with my Milwaukee 18v Surge driver. Perhaps the designers of these stubby drivers should incorporate a built in extentendabe 1/4″ chuck…
Chris
Tom D
An alternate thumb trigger on the side of things like the Surge would help alleviate that problem. Not sure how you’d implement it.
Brandon
Move the trigger to your pinky or even a ring finger pinky combo. So lower on the handle.
MichaelHammer
Oh my word, I’ve pinned my finger so many times. It’s not enough pay attention to the screw, you have to watch your trigger finger too! I don’t see an advantage to more stubby. Automotive maybe?
Mike Kotlarz
My fist thought is smaller powerful tools take up less space in a bag, car, tool box, or bench. The total weight of multiple smaller tools is appealing as well. I put extensions on most of my drivers and I like longer hand drivers as well in most cases. Backing fasteners out in tight spaces is also a consideration. I understand the argument of fingers too close to the work piece, but for me this is a very attractive tool just due to size, weight, and power. I don’t currently use Dewalt in most cases, but I am considering making the big leap to moving my collection to Dewalt.
Steve
Something like this is perfect for a 2Ah battery, keep the whole thing in your hand light and compact if you can.
OldDominionDIYer
That is really short! Good on Dewalt! Then again 4.5inches seems plenty short for me and my M18 Fuel 2853. but progress and competition is always great for the consumer!
Serendipity
It’s not short, it’s just the right size.
HadTo
that’s what she said
Harrison Gregoire
I always thought Dewalt made a nice sold feeling impact with good speed and solid-feeling hammers. The Atomic brushless had great balance and ergonomics too, compared to the normal XR which feels a bit bulbous and top-heavy.
Seeing as the torque on this model makes their standard XR more or less obsolete, I wonder if they’ve done anything to fix the wobbly anvil problem? Dewalt impacts already start to wear our after about a year of heavy use, it’s hard to imagine that shrinking the tool even further has done anything to improve the durability of the anvil front bushing/bearing surface.
Skfarmer
Damn, that’s cool. I have always been happy with my 12v and 20 v DeWalt impacts
I really wish I had a need asuch as my want.
JoeM
Yep… They’ve crossed the line to “Why?” territory. I’m going to aim for the 887, personally. The Atomic line is too small for my hands. Gotta stick with the XR, FlexVOLT Advantage, and FlexVOLT lines.
Corey Moore
Ah, validation lol I’ll be grabbing one👍
Cr8on
I’ll probably be a owner….
Koko The Talking Ape
Amazing.
I’d like to see inside one. I wonder if some of the gearing is inside the motor.
X Lu
When the battery is longer and wider than the tool head, you know the mfg’r has lost their way. Now with an M12 size battery, you have a winner.
Drew
This was my thought as well!
Django Sunny Leveson-Jones
not really you have more positioning options for the battery
X Lu
More than the battery in the handle?
Jared
I think he meant it’s easier to work around an obstruction with the battery – whereas the drive head always has to line up with the fastener.
Really, I don’t understand the “complaints” about this new impact being too short or small. If you prefer a larger one – you’re in luck! It’s been available for years!
XRH07
M12 has an awful grip and bad balance for all day use. Bad runtime too.
Stuart
Slide style battery is much more ergonomic in my opinion.
MM
I find it is very dependent on the application. For most construction tools like a recip saw or a drill or a cir saw, etc, I greatly prefer a slide-on battery. But for tools which get crammed into tight quarters like many mechanic’s tools? I prefer the M12 stick battery.
skfarmer
are you guys goofy in the head? it may not be for you but it definitely has a purpose.
let’s see it with a 3/8 anvil next! dewalt, are you listening?
can i take credit for the idea since i am the first to mention it?
JoeM
Do you happen to know that purpose by chance, sk? That’s where it loses me. Aside from the hex bit holder, this thing is basically flat to the grip… I think even the knuckle of one’s finger on the trigger before it’s pulled is out further than the tool. It’s like the next version is just going to be a handle, with two arcs coming up on either side, and a back plate that holds the axle. You pull the trigger and the hammer rapidly swings to hit an anvil plate on the axle, but they’re both so small you can’t see them in action from moving so fast…
It makes me ask the question “Why?” Why such a compact working section, backed up by such a proportionately larger grip and battery? I know there are fields I’m not familiar with… a guy can’t know truly everything there is to know in the world… Is there some special place this thing is like… “The Chosen One” tool? Something someone specific has been waiting for since the first tech manual prophesied its coming or something? (Trying to bring some humour there… I’m not angry, I’m curious. So… Needed a joke break.)
DeWALT genuinely shrunk the ergonomic grip of the Atomic line to one finger too short for me to use, so it disqualifies me from bothering to own one… but I look at how truly flattened they’ve got the brushless motor, and I think… “Honestly, who is this aimed at, and what problem does it solve? Why does this exist, beyond winning the contest for ‘Cutest Power Tool Of The Year’ somewhere?”
Please… Teach me here sk! It’s bugging me!
skfarmer
i was working in a tapered are on my combine just last week, on the header where the floor and and gathering auger meet i needed to drill some holes and run in some screws to fasten down a loose floor panel. guess what? my larger impact did not fit very well and i ended up twisting off some screws. this would have been a perfect fit.
ag machinery often has hidden fasteners, holes, tapers and other miserable places to get at. often rivaling compact cars. i work on everything from small engines to cars to atvs, larger and smaller farm equipment and my kenworth 18wheeler.
i agree this may be a better fit in 12v but i bet it isn’t long before we see that as well.
i am a fan of tools that increase access, compact ratchets, flex ratchets and long handled tools………and compact power tools.
JoeM
Ah… So… The flatness means you can slide the head into crevices you can’t pull anything off of to get at better…
If I’m being honest, if not for the Atomic sized handle, I would consider this one. I don’t mind when the working end gets changed in some way, it’s when the grip that defined the whole lineup gets mucked with… then I have problems… And it’s not moral, or principle problems, it’s that not all my fingers fit on the grip when they shorten it. Lengthening it wouldn’t bother me so much as shortening it.
But I do appreciate you filling in the major benefit of the nearly-flat head. It’s for near-impossible tight fits. The kind no right-angle, or flex-shaft accessory can get you through, because there’s just no room for them.
Thanks sk!
MM
A cordless ratchet or a dedicated 90-degree impact driver like a Milwaukee 2467-20 fits in much tighter spaces than this tool does. Likewise for the 90-degree head on the various installation drivers on the market. It’s an improvement over a standard impact driver but it’s not as small as other tools that have been on the market for years.
Chris
The point is that it’s an impact driver with massive torque and variable speed trigger, brushless motor, and LED chuck lighting in a compact size. Sure you can get a right-angle driver or flex shaft accessory, but these are not as powerful or reliable as an impact driver of this caliber.
Plus I love that you can rest your hand on the back of the drill rather than the rubber on the sides. I n longer have to place my hand over the vents.
Big Richard
They have a 3/8″ stubby impact wrench, DCF923.
https://www.toolup.com/DeWalt-DCF923B-ATOMIC-20V-MAX-3-8-in.-Cordless-Impact-Wrench-with-Hog-Ring-Anvil-Tool-Only
Nathan
The 12V extreme is cheaper than that with the same drive specs. granted you have to have 12V batteries. so that’s an extra cost for me.
I didn’t think you could purchase the DCF 922 and 923 models stateside.
Big Richard
They’re not quite the same specs. The 20v Atomic DCF921/922/923 have 50 additional ft-lbs (450 vs 400) as well as 4 speeds/modes.
There is a brushless compact series of impacts coming as well that will be sold at stores not called Home Depot. The DCF911 (1/2″) and DCF913 (3/8″). They, however, do have the same specs as the 12v Xtreme models and also only have one variable speed/mode. They are also slightly larger than the 20v Atomic models.
Similarly there is a non-Atomic compact brushless impact driver as well, DCF840. Again, the Atomic is more compact with better specs.
We can purchase impacts here, just can’t purchase the DCS727 miter saw.
MM
I’m really hoping for a new product on the higher end of the cordless impact range, 3/4 or 1″ drive. Ideally 60V.
DHCrocks
why put a 5ah on the impact. makes no sense you have the smallest compact head and then throw on a huge battery. on my 887 I only use a 2ah battery, its more then enough power and last a super long time. There is no benefit to going up to the 5ah if you want a compact tool.
Jared
My theory: it makes the new compact head look even smaller.
Nathan
you know this is a case where maybe someone should have turned the battery sideways. IE 90 degree to how it it shown. it would be shorter.
also I bet there is a 12V extreme version coming.
what I would love to get is an atomic 20V Impact wrench like that 12V extreme tool.
Only reason I haven’t bought the 12V model which it seems I can only get at lowes as a bare tool – is because I have to have batteries too.
John E
I started out with Dewalt’s 18V NiCad drills and drivers, then their 20v XR stuff. I’ve been using the Xtreme 12v tools almost exclusively now and only break out the 20v stuff occasionally; that reason being, the 12v lineup lacks a 1/2″ chucked drill.
The 12v tools are exceptional value (especially when on sale), take up very little room, and are the most comfortable to use of any cordless tools (for me). I get more done with them despite the 20v having more power. Most of that extra power is carried around needlessly anyway.
Big Richard
They have 20v Atomic stubby impact wrenches, just like the new 12v. DCF921 hog ring 1/2″, DCF922 1/2″ detent, and DCF923 3/8″ hog ring.
50 ft-lbs more than the 12v versions and they have 4 speed modes.
Stuart
Rotating the battery would make it hard to get straight access in corners.
There are other things they could have done, but sometimes no compromise is the best approach.
Nathan
gonna get flamed for this. battery slot box – rotates on the handle in 2 locked 90 degree positions.
I mean it could be done.
Kizzle
This should’ve been the new 12v. The chonk battery defeats the whole purpose.
rob
This may be stubbier than that Kyocera-Ryobi XR. Pretty cool.
Aaron s
That sent me down a small rabbit hole that landed me back on toolguyd: https://toolguyd.com/no-kyocera-did-not-buy-ryobi/
Big Richard
How about the new 20v cut off tool?
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/us/dewalt-usa/images/300dpi-2000px-dcs438b-1-dot-jpg-2313178
Phil H.
Very nice! I’ve been watching the Ryobi One+ 18 volt cut-off at Home Depot for a sale but this could change my mind depending on performance. Considering the DCF 850 described above and this new Dewalt cut-off tool, it’s going to be a very interesting Black Friday/Merry Christmas!
MM
That looks very interesting. I thought about buying the M12 cutoff tool but what held me back was that some users described the power as a bit marginal, and I also noticed that it had a very shallow depth of cut because the diameter of the motor housing is quite close to the diameter of the blade. But judging by the photos it seems they’ve ether shrunk the motor a bit, or offset the shaft a little and this looks like it is a more capable tool. I’ll certainly take a good hard look at it once they’re out. If it’s got more power than the M12 and retains the reversing feature I’ll probably buy one.
Big Richard
The M12 is good for cutting aluminum foil for BBQing, but this guy will be a little more multipurpose.
This does have a reverse mode as well. As for depth of cut it is rated at .79″, while the M12 is a little less at .625″.
MM
I just got done reading up on the specs and studying the pics a little closer and those are the numbers I found too. And the reversing feature is there. I’ll almost certainly buy one of these once they hit the shelves unless the reviews reveal some major hidden problem. I’ve got nothing against the M12 line, I’ve got a lot of them myself, but this is a tool I’d rather have in 20v Max than M12.
And while we’re on the subject of Dewalt saws and the like, where’s the update to the DCS373?
Big Richard
That I do not have any intel on. I know metal cutting circ saws are not the most popular cordless tool, but it does seem like an update is due.
With it’s lower speed, I plan on using the 12v DCS512 as my metal cutting saw, but it would be nice to see a dedicated metal saw on the 20v platform.
Peter Fox
I have the M12 and although is is not perfect I can handle quite a bit more than aluminum foil.
I was using mine on some 14 gauge stainless just yesterday. it had no problems with that at all.
Its performance is definitely is related to battery size it works much better on the 6.0 verses a 2.0
Using quality disks also make a big difference. I have been using 3M silver series and am very happy with them.
That Dewalt looks very promising, More depth of cut is always a good thing. I would not be surprised if it is similar to the M12 in power. As a high speed direct drive brushless design I would expect that the output torque will be the limiting factor. Which is more based on the motor size than the battery powering it (assuming you have enough battery in the first place).
MM
It looks to me that the Dewalt tool has some kind of a gear drive. If you look at the side-view photos on Dewalt’s “news and press” link on their website you can see that the center of the cutoff disc does not line up with the center of the motor. They have added some kind of gearing or perhaps a belt between the motor and the blade. Now it’s possible it’s a 1:1 ratio drive whose sole purpose was to get more depth of cut, but it’s also possible there is some kind of gear reduction going on. It’s also possible the offset is allowing them to use a larger motor than the M12 tool. It will be interesting to see a better comparison once the Dewalt hits the market.
High & Mighty
Dewalt released the 887 back in 2015. They’ve since released several other impact drivers although very few if any of them would be worthwhile to match the performance of the 887.
Its been almost 7 years since the 887 came out and this is the best that they can come up with? This is it? A smaller version of an outdated tool that you can buy for less than a hundred bucks.
I really hope that this is some sort of joke and that next week we’ll be reading about a new & improved Dewalt XR impact driver that surpasses anything currently on the market. I’ve gotten by just fine with the 887, so why in the hell would I want to buy a smaller version of something that doesn’t need to be smaller?
This is absolute BS! And a complete let down!
No updates. No upgrades. No nothing. Absolutely nothing done to beef up the torque or any performance specs whatsoever. Just the same plain old shit from 2015 but 1¼” shorter. Well whooptee fkn doo.
You’re right, this is jaw dropping. Because I’m shocked as shit that in almost 7 years Dewalt can’t come up with anything new to surpass what they did back in 2015.
Big Richard
This is their Atomic line, with emphasis on size. The fact that its specs matches their current flagship XR model’s specs is pretty good sign that a new flagship XR model is on the way.
Stuart
There’s still the potential for a new “XR” model to replace the DCF887.
There are 3 main ways to upgrade an impact driver.
1) shorter length
2) higher torque
3) user settings
If you need more torque than this can deliver, an impact wrench will likely better suit the task.
More control options? This provides the options most users need.
Size? Compared to the 887, this is substantially shorter.
There’s not much that most brands can do to improve their impact drivers.
Most could be quieter and smoother, but that’s more complicated.
Ron
There’s also the new DCF840 at Lowe’s which seems to be styled after the DCF801, but runs at 20v and is single speed. It went basically unannounced, but has power comparable to the DCF850.
Robert
As with many other things these days, the dominant players, companies, tend to change from time to time. Sometimes its due to changing technology. An otherwise dominant company doesn’t keep up with the times. Other times its as though a company just falls asleep at the wheel.
Maybe its just me, but it seems that DeWalt has been the latter in recent years. They’ve been so accustomed to being a player, I don’t know that the thought has occurred to them that they could progressively become insignificant. Not suggesting they’re at that point, yet, but they seem to be walking down the path.
I think they need to wake up before they lose their foothold on the ladder of significant brands.
fred
From the outside looking in, SBD does seem to be losing some ground in the small power tool business – at least here in the USA. Their arch rival TTI produces widely available Milwaukee – and Home Depot sold (mostly) Ryobi and Ridgid tools that compete with SBD’s front runner Dewalt and the mostly irrelevant Porter Cable and B&D brands. In the last several years Milwaukee and Ryobi have seemed to outpace Dewalt in the the sheer volume and timing of new introductions – or at least they blow their horns louder than Dewalt does. SBD is certainly bigger than TTI but seems IMO to be faltering a bit with keeping up with innovations. Maybe their sales and profit statistics tell a different tale – but I agree with Robert that they should not let complacency set in. Competition is always good but the field is crowded (SBD, Bosch, TTI, Makita, Hilti, Chervon et. al.) and their are always competitors who are not happy being #2 or #3 and would like to take the top dog spot or at least eat more of their lunch.
alex
I don’t know Dewalt has released lot of tools in the last year. 12v circular saw, 12v band saw, 12v multitool, hood light, 20v installation drill, the 20v power cleaner, this new impact, the 20v cutout tool, … And from what I heard they are going to introduce lot of new stuff in the coming months
Milwaukee doesn’t have a track saw or a drywall sander so their lineup is not perfect either.
I think both brands are doing a fine job. I’m a happy Dewalt user but Milwaukee has some great tools too.
Corey Moore
Definitely seems like DeWalt got a fire under their ass this year. Hope it keeps up.
Big Richard
Milwaukee does have a track saw coming though.
Ron
Milwaukee does a huge 12v lineup that DeWalt (and basically everyone else) can’t even touch…although they are taking steps in the right direction.
High & Mighty
I think Fred & Robert are right. I think Dewalt has gotten complacent in their recent years DIY grade junk output. They’re starting to remind me of Bosch. We all know how slow they are to update their tools. But Dewalt hasn’t updated their flagship line in years. The 20v XR tools are what put Dewalt on the map. Yet they’ve retrospectively done nothing to improve their bread & butter in the last 5 plus years. I don’t know what seems to be the problem, but they keep releasing this DIY oriented crap for home use instead of focusing on the tools that are worth buying. Which begs the question of are they still a professional brand of tools. With releases such as this, I beg to differ.
I really don’t understand what it is that they’re waiting on to release the next generation of their professional lines of tools with their flagship 20v XR tools & their 60v flexvolt tools. They’ve had more than enough time to invest some serious R&D into developing far more superior tools than this recent unimpressive dud.
Just out of curiosity, why is considered a good thing that Dewalt or any brand really, to shrink the size of their tools? I get that they’re digitally controlled brushless motors & all, but they had to have taken off a lot of meat on the motor in order for it to fit into that tiny clamshell. The anvil & hammer likely lost a considerable amount of meat as well. That’s not good.
And besides that, the 887 didn’t need a size reduction. What is needed is a far more superior impact driver that surpasses anything Dewalt or anyone else has ever done. That’s what’s to be expected from a professional brand of tools such as Dewalt. And it’s been quite some time since they’ve met those expectations. They haven’t even come close in recent years.
When looking at the release dates for the majority of the tools that I use to make a living, very few have been released in the last couple of years. The most recent one I have is the 20v cable stapler which came out in 2018. My most recent purchase was another replacement for my cordless 7¼” miter saw which Dewalt did a handful of minor updates on. But still, they haven’t done anything to boost the performance of the tool which I think came out around the same time as the 887 or shortly after.
Albert
So….what happens to long term reliability when all the innards get shrunk and stuffed into a smaller package? Is this a “buy a new one every year” type tool?
Stuart
Why would reliability be impacted?
MM
I have no idea about the specifics of this tool, but often times engineers meet the goal of “smaller and more compact” by downsizing parts or by substituting plastic for metal. That doesn’t necessarily make the part less durable, but it often does. A while back we were discussing belt sanders. Several people mentioned they own older B&D models with aluminum housings and steel chain drives riding in oil-bath gearboxes, etc. Those tools are big and heavy by today’s standards but I’d bet they’d outlast any modern belt sander.
Peter Fox
Two words, heat dissipation
As much as I love the current generation of compact brushless tools. there is no denying the risks of packing ever more powerful motors and electronics into smaller package. There is just less thermal mass and margin for error in modern designs.
Certainly over-temperature and over-current protection is generally better than in older brushed designs. However the risks to reliability are definitely greater unless they get everything just right.
Stuart
My assumption is that the motor will be stouter, in which case it *could* have a larger diameter fan, which would likely improve heat dissipation.
It’s always possible for any new model product to suffer from reliability issues, but I don’t think there’s any more or less potential for that here just because the tool is smaller.
Peter Fox
I am in no way suggesting that heat dissipation issues can’t be mitigated to a degree. however you are fighting against basic physics in packaging ever higher power densities into ever smaller tools.
A good example would be Milwaukee’s M18 Fuel drills/driver and hammer drills. The older 2703-20 and 2704-20 are quite large and robust. In the shop where I work we have a few of the 2703-20’s the only issue that we have seen with them in about 6 years is worn out chucks. they are quite hard to overheat even using them with large unibits. In comparison the newer 2803-20 and 2804-20 are much smaller. I have a 2804-20 personally and they are quite powerful but they do heat up much faster doing heavy work. If I am working in tight space or overhead I much prefer the lighter and more compact drills. If I am going to push it hard for an extended period of time the large drill is going to be the better choice.
It really comes down to basic trade offs between size weight and performance. Every newer generation of cordless tools pushes the envelope a bit further but the basic trade offs’ still remain. Cordless tool technology had for all practical definitions plateaued before brushless and lithium ion batteries arrived. Although I think there is still some room for improvement I think we are again reaching a plateau of performance versus size until the next major breakthrough occurs.
Stuart
Heat generation and cooling is generally done around the motor. If the motor is shorter but wider, its power-to-volume ratio does not change.
Is the motor more efficient? A more efficient motor draws less power to deliver the same performance. Less current draw could then mean less heat generation.
Impact drivers tend to consume less power than cordless drills, and they also tend to spin at higher RPMs even when under load, which means their fans are always running at max.
There *could* very well be heat issues here, I’m only saying that the reasoning is imperfect.
It’s unfair to suggest this impact traps the same heat generated by prior tools into a smaller space and that this could diminish its reliability. There are too many unknowns for anyone to assume this tool runs hotter than its predecessors.
There are 3 possibilities; compared to larger models:
A) this impact could run hotter
B) this impact could run cooler
C) this impact could run at the same temperature
You’re assuming that this impact could run hotter, which might or might not be true. It’s impossible to know for sure until sufficient field testing can be done.
Joe H
Do people really need more power from a 1/4 inch impact driver? Anymore and stuff starts to snap in relation to the size of common attachments. The differing modes/speeds on impact drivers can mitigate that. Maybe DeWalt needs to have a 1/4 and 3/8 anvil instead of Bosch’s 1/4 and 1/2 anvil.
Nathan
Yeah sorry the only upgrade I would want out of my 887 – that you can still buy – and that works fine. Is a few user modes for things like sheet metal screws or tapping mode. but to be fair I don’t use that now – and i run sheet metal screws with it fine.
Hell I wouldn’t mind if it maybe had a non-impact mode. but that would be mechanical and complicated to add. (extra space, parts etc).
So complacent no I don’t think so they just know they have a industry leading tool. I mean if I’m running something into wood any harder than the 887 can muster I’m using a ratchet most likely. If I worked in construction and was doing that often I’d have a mid torque impact wrench to work with.
Don’t want to put more than 200 ft lbs though a 1/4 hex bar.
Nathan
Oh side thought – reason you see this bundled with the 2 row battery pack – is because it will only make that torque rating with a 2 row battery pack. I bet it doesn’t strike has hard / spin as fast with a compact single row pack.
Stuart
I wouldn’t think so.
I haven’t talked to Dewalt about this, but Milwaukee’s M18 cordless drills benefit from an “XC effect” where they deliver higher power when paired with an XC battery. https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-cordless-power-tool-battery-sizes-explained/
Milwaukee’s impact drivers deliver the same performance when powered by 5-cell or 10-cell batteries.
I had a conversation with them a few years ago, asking why the XC effect didn’t apply to their impact drivers, and was told:
I would assume that this is a fact that can be extended to include most brands’ impact drivers, brushed or brushless.
Thus, I would be immensely surprised if this impact *required* the 5Ah battery.
MM
In my opinion most tools follow something of a development curve over time. Early tools perform poorly. As time progresses they get better and better as people figure out better materials, geometry, ergonomics, etc, and at some point the problem is solved. But as many have mentioned, people expect something new and better all the time. The problem is that sometimes there isn’t anything “new and better” so we get just “new”, or perhaps “new and worse” instead.
I would argue that many cordless tools, including drill-drivers and 1/4 hex impact tools, area already right about at their peak, and what we’re going to see now is diminishing returns at best and steps backwards at worst. My older dewalt drill/driver is more than powerful enough to break a careless operator’s wrist. I couldn’t possibly want more power–even if the tool had it, it doesn’t have the grips to use it safely the way a stud-and joist drill does. My 895 impact driver works great, sure the new models are slightly faster or slightly more powerful but I’ve never felt this one to be inadequate for my needs. IMHO these are solved problems.
But things can very easily go sideways in the quest for newer and better. The push for all these new electronic features in cordless tools has be worried. Some of them are great: e-clutch and bindup protection is a step forward. But if and when tools start refusing to work because they can’t sync with my phone over Bluetooth? That would be a step backwards. And I don’t think those kinds of steps will be too far off as they are already here in many other industries.
Peter Fox
I wholeheartedly agree.
I think we are approaching the limits of what current technology can offer in terms of compactness and power. I do hope that we see improvements in impulse drivers such as Milwaukee’s M12 and 18 Surge. Otherwise until we see the next breakthrough energy storage or motor technology I think we are pretty close to the top of the plateau.
Overall I think that cordless tool electronics have improved overall tool reliability. I have seen far less failures in brushless tools than in older generations of brushed tools. Where I work we used to have DeWalt 14.4 and 18 volt drills, I changed lots of brushes, motors and a few trigger switches over the years to keep them running. For the last 6 years we have had Milwaukee M18 drills and the only issues have been worn out chucks, even though they have been used much harder than the older DeWalts ever were. Similarly we have about 30 Bosch 12 volt drivers, a mix of PS-21’s and PS-22’s. The brushed PS-21’s pretty much all fail (about 6-7 so far) due to worn out brushes and are not really economical to repair. I have only had 1 of the brushless PS-22’s fail with an electronic issue and it was replaced under warranty.
I hope we never get to cordless tools as a service type of software BS. Although I would love to have some level of usage and run time statistics easily available from cordless tools. Several of our battery powered hydraulic tools do record the number of cycles and overpressure events but that data is only retrievable by factory service centers.
Noswad
This looks very tempting but I’ll switch back to dewalt when they come out with a hydraulic impact driver like the Milwaukee surge.
I use that for everything while working inside renovating apartments and everything outside as it’s less annoying to the next door neighbors.
Ron
I agree. I use the M12 Surge all the time and also have an M18 Surge. If DeWalt came out with an impulse driver (especially a 12v model) I’d be all over it.
Chris
It’s official!
https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/impact-drivers-and-wrenches/atomic-20v-max-14-in-brushless-cordless-3speed-impact-driver-tool-only/dcf850b
Jenner Greene
I bought mine yesterday and got the extra 5.0ah battery for free. For $200 i have the equivalent of the P2 kit. 2 batts. 5.0ah\ charger with dcf850 tool. Excellent for those of us in the pro category. I still have my trusted 887 and 999 hammerdrill which replaced my 796 and i am very happy with the versatility of this tool. If you are into the hype then buy one for hype-sake. If you like the benchmark results that it is on par with everything you expect coming from an 885 887 809 etc you will be happy with your decision. It is a very perfect addition to your money making yellowjackets but take advantage the holiday sales and make it worth it to buy from HDX. Purchased mine 11/4/21. Its going to hit it hard tomorrow and should review well. You gotta just buy one and see if you like it. My wait is on the new powercell batteries because i agree with one issue and its weight. We need 5-6.0ah battery power delivered in 2.0ah size battery. That is the only issue at the moment.