Dewalt has announced the launch of their new 20V Max 3.0Ah battery pack, DCB230, and it seems to be built with larger sized Li-Ion cells, the same as their highest capacity 20V Max 6.0Ah and FlexVolt 9.0Ah battery packs.
The new 20V Max compact 3.0Ah battery pack offers the same capacity as their DCB200 3.0Ah battery pack, while being 20% lighter.
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Pricing
- DCB230: $99
- DCB230-2 two pack: $129
- DCB230C starter bundle with charger:
$119$96 (as of May 2018)
Buy Now(Starter Set via Amazon)
Buy Now(2-Pack via Amazon)
First Thoughts
I haven’t heard back yet as to how the new battery pack will perform compared to existing 2.0Ah battery packs, or higher capacity battery packs. In theory, it should run quite well, as the larger battery cells should be capable of cooler running under high loads.
The battery pack has a built-in fuel gauge, and is said to recharge in “45 minutes or less.”
If you buy a 2-pack, the price per amp-hour would be $21.50 ($129/6.0Ah). Dewalt’s 20V Max 5.0Ah 2-pack (currently $150 at Amazon) comes down to $15 per amp-hour.
A Dewalt 20V Max 6.0Ah 2-pack is $178-$189. Taking the $189 MSRP, that would come down to $15.75 per amp-hour. A 2-pack of 9.0Ah batteries (there’s also a bundle deal with charger), is $279 at Amazon. So that’s $15.50 per amp-hour.
With these compact battery packs, the cost of manufacturing the battery pack contributes to the higher per-amp-hour cost. It’s how a 4″ screwdriver might be $10, and a 6″ model $12.
Looking at Dewalt compact battery packs, a you can buy a 2-pack for $119 or a few dollars less. So that’s $119 for two 2.0Ah battery packs, or $29.75 per amp-hour.
If you want the lowest runtime cost, go with a higher capacity battery pack. If you want the most compact battery pack, go with the 2.0Ah pack.
If you want a higher capacity compact battery pack that can deliver greater runtime in a form factor that’s larger than existing compact packs but smaller and lighter than existing higher capacity battery packs, this might be a good fit for you.
Long story short, looks good.
Are there any compatibility issues? Unpublicized runtime or performance benefits? I’ll let you know when I find out.
Eric says
I wouldn’t be surprised if it had 18650 cells just like the rest of the packs. They’ve had cells with that capacity and a high enough sustainable power output for a couple of years now. Long enough for the price to come down. While the 20700 or 21700 is still pretty new to the market and a lot more expensive. Those cells are running about 2x the price of an 18650 on the retail market, so I have to assume they’re running higher on the wholesale market as well.
Cr8on says
Just based on the photo, it could be very safe to say that they use 20700 cells, note the longer release latch that appears identical to the 6.0 that uses 20700 cells.
Travis says
It has 20700 cells just like the 6.0 ah XR pack does, just half the height.
Stuart says
I was told that 18650 prices have been going up.
Eric says
They have crept up some, but are still close to half the price of the larger 20700 and 21700 cells. Maybe some of that is just on the retail side though.
Cr8on says
One word Gigafactory…….. It stands to reason we should be seeing 20/21700 cells start to be less than 18650 in the not so far future. Tesla and Panasonic apparently are planning Gigafactory 2-5 ……
Eric says
Yeah there is the gigafactory, but all or at least most of those batteries are being used by Tesla. If there was plenty of surplus for the open market they wouldn’t be talking about opening so many new factories. Those specific batteries aren’t very high output either. They’re geared towards storing more energy. When they have huge banks of them they aren’t as dependent on any one cell to be able to put out lots of power.
Davida1 says
Larger cells are harder to cool, because they have a smaller surface area relative to the interior
Stuart says
But running at the same power draw as 18650 cells, a larger cell will run cooler.
I don’t know if there’s a crossover point beyond which 18650 packs will run cooler.
Davida1 says
It’s possible, but on EV forums I’ve seen speculation that the reason Tesla hasn’t switched over to 2170 format (which the gigafactory produces), for the MODEL S & X, is due to 18650’s superior cooling. Meaning they want to orient their more expensive cars with higher performance vs MODEL 3 which is supposed to be mass market, they’d rather more storage density in the batteries vs performance. And another thing if what your saying is true that because they’re larger they run cooler why don’t they make huge batteries. Again just conjecture on my part, I could be wrong.
Mahalo says
Just because larger cell may run cooler under same output, doesn’t mean that running cooler is the singular design goal. With all other considerations, it makes sense that they don’t simply resort to making “huge” single cell batteries.
Stuart says
I’ve avoided going too deep into theory.
But I do know this – larger cells have higher current ceilings than smaller cells of the same capacity.
On paper, 2.0Ah 18650 cells had slightly better max current output than 2.5Ah cells, and 3.0Ah cells had a substantially lower rating.
Some brands have said that their battery pack designs have allowed them to step up to 18650 3.0Ah cells in their 6.0Ah packs.
But why haven’t many brands moved to 6.0Ah packs in 18650 form factor? Why not 3.0Ah compact packs from most brands?
A 3.0Ah pack built with 21700 or 20700 cells should have a higher max current rating.
Let’s say you’re running 18650 3.0Ah cell near its max output rating of 15A.
A Panasonic 3.1Ah 20700 cell has a max continuous current rating of 30A (NCR20700A).
I can find a temperature discharge plot for the Panasonic cell, but not for any 18650 3.0Ah cells I can easily find.
The Panasonic is rated to 60°C at discharge, which is reached halfway when outputting 30A. The cell can fully discharge – in ideal situations – before reaching that 60°C temperature. Battery pack cooling is ignored for simplicity’s sake.
Ah – found one. Samsung INR 18650 30Q. It has a max discharge current (continuous) of 15A.
There’s an output vs. temperature chart, again ignoring pack design. It’ll reach 60°C after fully discharged at 10A. At 15A, it’ll reach 60°C after only 1.3Ah of discharge, and 80°C after full discharge. At 20A, it’ll reach 60°C after 0.95Ah, and 100°C after full discharge. There’s no operating temperature range rating that I can find.
At 10A, the Panasonic cell will fully discharge and reach ~42°C.
So for those two cells, the Panasonic runs cooler at the same discharge current, and is capable of being pushed to higher power draw.
I can’t find a higher rated 3.0Ah 18650 cell than that Samsung INR.
Panasonic: https://akkuplus.de/mediafiles/Datenblatt/Panasonic/Panasonic_NCR20700A.pdf
Samsung: https://eu.nkon.nl/sk/k/30q.pdf
While I have yet to dig into more technical considerations of 18650 vs. 20700/21700, at least in terms of potential chemistry or manufacturing differences, I can tell you that 18650 has neared a theoretical limit, one which larger cells are helping power tool brands push past.
The aforementioned Panasonic cell, albeit with 3.1Ah capacity rating, can pump out 30A continuously. The smaller Samsung 3.0Ah cell tops out at 15A.
The Panasonic has lower energy density. But, it looks like 4.0Ah cells are on the horizon. There are already cordless power tool packs built with 3.5Ah cells.
It’s not that the 20700 and 21700 run cooler because they’re larger. They run cooler because they have higher current draw ratings. But I suppose they have higher current draw ratings partly because they’re larger, or maybe because they’re larger and less energy dense.
It seems there are other factors contributing to the higher max current rating, but I haven’t dug into that part yet. Finding answers would be too great of a challenge for what insight it could potentially provide.
Davida1 says
Wow thanks for the info.
Maybe at some point you can make an in depth article
rmkilc says
LG HG2 18650 cells?
Eric says
The Sony VTC6 is the current top dog, the Samsung 30q and LG HG2 aren’t far behind though.
Chris says
It’s kind of ugly though. Looks like they’re trying to go with the 6ah battery style but it doesn’t work with smaller batteries.
Robin says
Not a huge surprise. Just thinking last week it was only a matter of time until single bank 3.0 compact versions of the new 9.0 Flexvolt came out.
Robin says
Oh, and unsurprisingly, out of stock already.
Stuart says
It hasn’t launched yet. Some SKUs are available for pre-order. The 2-battery listing still needs to be updated with accurate photos and pricing.
Tool Of The Trade says
It doesn’t matter what kind of cells they use. Bottom line is that they continue to rip us off on batteries. I’m not gonna lie, I love my cordless tools and the convenience that comes with them, but I hate the unknown battery life and the misinformation that they advertise. That shit’s for the birds. Hitachi has just recently started to sell their batteries somewhat close to what they are actually worth. The materials they use are the same across the board. Plastic shell, battery cells, circuit boards, wires, and some brass or copper. This is the question that no one knows the answer to. What kind of work do they base the amp hours on? Why doesn’t the amount of amphours apply to ALL TOOLS that use that voltage no matter what the task is. Whether I’m driving in screws with an impact driver or ripping a pt 16′ 2×8 with a circ saw, I should get the same amount of amphours out of my battery that they advertise. There’s no mention anywhere on the packaging of what kind of work that you get the most or the least amount of time out of the battery. Why? As much money as they charge for cordless batteries, this very important detail should be in large bold print on the front and back of the packaging. There should be a chart of tools and tasks that pertain to how long the battery will last based on the task pertinent to the tool printed on every single cordless battery that is packaged for retail. This seems to be the one thing that they avoid from mentioning so they can rip us off. They need to be held accountable for what makes their batteries cost as much as they do, don’t you think? That goes for anything. If something is expensive, you should want to know what makes it expensive. Batteries aren’t cheap. Look at combo kits. It would cost the same to get a decent battery for every one of the tools that comes with the kit than the cost of the kit. All of a sudden that $600 combo kit becomes an $1100 combo kit because they failed to provide adequate batteries and now your spending several hundred dollars on batteries to make the kit useful. The price of batteries would drop dramatically if the basis of amphours were printed. Why would you spend $100 on a battery that’s advertised at 5 hours, but you only get 45 minutes out of it if you use it to do something other than the unmentioned task that the amphours are originally based on? WTF IS THAT BS?! RIPOFF and GIMMICK in every sense of the word. Misinformation without even mentioning or printing information. Unknown lie. Problem is that people are too stupid to pick up on it. I’d love to hear what answers these sh__heads come up with as to why they package their batteries for sale without mentioning anything factual about the life of the battery and why it costs so much. Wait, an epiphany! Why am I waiting for my battery to charge when I could have just plugged my tool into the wall? Now remember children, pick up your feet when you walk so you don’t trip over something on the ground and look where you’re walking. Just because it’s convenient doesn’t mean that you should fail to use that invaluable tool between your 2 shoulders.
Eric says
You need to do a little more research as to how battery capacities are measured. The actual capacity of the battery is the only logical way to do it. There is no way to measure how long a battery will last in a given tool. There are just to many variables there. For things like a flashlight sure, that’s easy to measure. But a drill, saw, grinder, etc. is going to be very dependent on what kind of a load your putting on it. A that that is just spinning free is going to draw a whole lot less power than one with a load on it. They would have to measure battery life for potentially hundreds of materials. Then are you putting just enough force on it to let the tool do the work, or are you going 200lb gorilla and forcing it through the material? Are you using a high quality bit/blade, or are you using a cheap no name bit/blade, maybe somewhere in the middle? Are you ripping lumber with a 24 tooth blade or a 60 tooth blade? Is it the right blade for the task or are you trying to use a metal blade to cut wood? This could go on forever.
Stuart says
My understanding is that kits and combo kits are super-competitively priced. So they make it up with bare tool and battery prices.
Why does Mouser charge $2 for one of something, when I can get the same thing for $0.80 if I buy 2,000 of them?
Why is a 2×2 sheet of foam insulation board $6 when a full 4×8 sheet is $19? With the small sheet, you get 1/8 the material for only 1/3 the price.
Why does the in for a $45 printer cost $40 if you buy them separately? $30 if you buy the package?
You get the same amp-hours regardless of the tool you use – in theory. In practice, how you use it can affect how long it lasts. Consider alkaline batteries. The load and usage environment can affect charge capacity and runtime.
The same thing happens to your car. 1 gallon of gas can fuel different cars different distances, and what you see in a single car can vary widely depending on a lot of different things.
Jim Felt says
Wow. Lewis Black has a Toolguyd acolyte! And that’s the very kind of thing that makes this such a fun and useful site.
firefly says
😀
Joe Smith says
I hope that wasn’t a genuine rant because if so you are woefully misinformed about how this stuff works.
That’s like asking why a tank of gas gets used up faster when you are driving a fully loaded vehicle pulling a trailer. Or why your fuel gets used faster if you have a lead foot.
Some tools require more energy to operate start with(truck vs car vs moped)). Runtime also depends on HOW you use that specific tool. What materials are you working with? Is your blade sharp? What are the thermal conditions? How old is your battery?
Corey says
Damn dude. That’s a lot of rant to sum up the fact that you don’t grasp the concept of amp hour. Take a breather, and google a bit. Literally everything you’re saying your angry about, is your misunderstanding of the term. Hope it cheers you up 👍
JoeM says
…Wow… This guy really is a Tool of the Trade… Reminds me of getting lectured by my 93-year-old Jewish Grandmother. Usually because I don’t hand-write letters to her anymore, and I own, and USE, a Smart Phone.
Sounds like TotT here. How DARE we use something modern! How DARE we solve a problem they had in the olden days by inventing a solution… The whole world’s out to get us, ’cause it’s a SCAM that we’re not living in the past anymore!
It’s my Grandmother. Through and Through, this is an old, outdated, and frustrated person who is angry that we can do things now in five minutes, what they had to learn how to do for hours on end. Probably has Arthritis flaring up in several joints whenever it rains, looks out their window, and sees their own children, or perhaps grandchildren at this point, picking up tools and using them while the project has a tent over it to block the rain out. The AUDACITY! The project can survive the rain, but they just HAVE to get a few screws in to hold it down while the storm passes, and THEY don’t have to deal with the aching and the disabling pain of decades of doing things the hard way! Why, it’s just an INSULT, isn’t it? All that hard work TotT put into the work they did all their lives, and here’s these… Young Things… Just… Working smarter, knowing better, and not worrying about their safety, because their tools and projects don’t hurt them like they did TotT…
…Stop the World! Tool of the Trade wants to get off while there’s still a chance they’re still relevant to someone in the distant past who may, or may not, still be doing things the painful way!
Tool Of The Trade says
Mr. Stuart, by no means am I trying to offend you and nothing I’m saying is regarding you or Toolguyd.com. I enjoy your website. Go f__k yourself JoeM. F__k you and your grandmother. Not once did I say one thing about not using battery powered tools did I? No I didn’t. The majority of my everyday tools are cordless. So why would I say not to use them? If corded tools are so outdated, then why does every battery made require you to plug a charger into an AC powered receptacle to charge them? You along with everyone else that had some smart sh_t to say, didn’t answer the question. Yall can research until you’re blue in the face about amp hours, but not one of you can answer what they base the amp hours on. What is the concept of an amp hour? And by no means did I mean to come across like I’m angry. I just want to know how they can hon that is applicable to actual job site work
JoeM says
Twenty Seconds of google, oh wait, that’s a modern invention too…
“An ampere hour or amp hour (symbol Ah; also denoted A⋅h or A h) is a unit of electric charge, having dimensions of electric current multiplied by time, equal to the charge transferred by a steady current of one ampere flowing for one hour, or 3600 coulombs.[1] The commonly seen milliampere hour (mAh or mA⋅h) is one-thousandth of an ampere hour (3.6 coulombs).”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere_hour
So it’s the number of Amperes expelled over one hour of use. So, Logically, a tool that draws more than one Ampere will divide the total Ah rating by that amount, reducing the time down from one hour, to whatever number of minutes out of an hour you get. You can usually calculate this by the UWO rating listed in the specs. And if you don’t want to do the math to convert UWO to how many Ah it uses in a single hour, then you’re not worth it.
And go F_k yourself TotT. My Grandmother fought in the RAF and survived the Holocaust. You owe her your freedom, and everything else you hold dear. She has done more, seen more, and known more than you can even fathom. The proof is in the fact that you couldn’t even take ten seconds to type the words “Amp Hour” into a google search to find the article about it before ranting like a jackass for half the page, let alone think about figuring it out for yourself. My Grandmother fought in the war, and saved people from Concentration Camps. I did your search for you. You’re welcome. You really are a Tool. And I don’t appreciate your total ignorance being used like a crutch the way you did. Like you’re too good to bother learning, or even TRYING, for yourself. Like everyone, myself, the tool companies, and even Stuart here, somehow OWE you the work you should have done yourself.
We’re Tool Users. You’re just a Tool. And a defective one at that.
glenn says
JoeM………… How many ways can I say it ….I will keep it simple though………………an absolutely perfect and awesome reply.
Timothy says
JoeM, You are wasting time with people similar to that other guy. I’ve worked with and used to belong to sites that had people similar to him. Most think they have all the answers and or their antiquated way is the best and only way to handle situations. Usually they are set in their ways and there is little to change that, unless they themselves are willing to listen.
Frankly, I just don’t care what others spend their money on or if they are using corded or cordless tools. More so online in recent years I’ve noticed some individuals seemingly lose their minds if you mention new technology or with proven evidence challenge existing methods. Hate to be the one that breaks to most, yet speed and efficiency is usually all that matters to most clients. Skill is a important factor for sure, but most aren’t willing to pay any tradesperson by the hour if they are only going to use hand tools.
Of course, there is and likely will be for the foreseeable future a place for hand tools and corded tools, yet with the advancement of technology, some corded tools and older battery technology are becoming obsolete. Granted, there is a case to be made that some older items were better built, yet that matters little if they aren’t able to keep up with modern day demands. This goes without saying or at least I’d like to think this does, but the person with 30+ years of experience has a advantage over newcomers. However, codes and methodologies in some cases might have changed or improved for the better.
Perhaps this is because I’ve witnessed a vast deal of truly silly “battles” between fully grown adults, but I can’t help but laugh at such spectacles. All this time wasted trite issues instead of focusing on yourself and legitimate concerns is truly hilarious in a way. While I am far from perfect myself, I do contend introspection is pivotal to actually improve in life.
As for your grandmother, this is thanks to her generation that the Western parts of the world have the freedoms they do have. No country is without issue and there will never be a truly 100% perfect without zero flaws world either. That being said, I’d like to remind those that think the West i.e. America is truly the worst place filled with nothing positive, please consider this. There is democracy along with rights other countries, namely the citizens would do anything for. Freedom of expression doesn’t exist in some parts of the world and if you have the “wrong opinion”, well let’s just say this could land you and your family in life or death situations.
Good luck explaining that to those hate the West and all the beautiful freedoms associated with this. These people, including those that live in the west and hate the fact the freedom of expression exists just don’t know either how good they have it or how ignorant they are. True dictatorship, not the silliness often published by legacy media always ends badly for the citizens. With the exception those that are exempt from these hardships and it’s fairly obvious who they are.
In short JohnM, I appreciate where you are coming from and have done the same in the past, some will never listen regards of facts, logic or reasoning. I’ll never understand this and as I’ve become older, personally I’ve noticed some rather figuratively stick their heads in the sand no matter what. This is fantastic news for those that truly control the levers of the world. Knowledge is power and with that power weakens the ability of those that seek complete conformity. Individualism is terrifying for those of this mindset and they’d much prefer collectivism without any accountability period.
Best tool of all time is division, as if you are divide effectively, you can conquer without much legitimate resistance. Ethics, morality and even rule of law matter very little, if at all to this ilk.
Stuart says
Please, everyone needs to calm down and be respectful.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and personal attacks are never appropriate.
Timothy says
Just to clarify Stuart and I know you aren’t singling me out, I meant no disrespect to anyone at all with my post. I’ll be the first to openly admit that I am not flawless and there is always room for improvement. Believe me, I learned that lesson decades ago by those that not only are intellectuals, yet cared enough to provide guidance.
While I do strongly respect and support private property/businesses, deeply condemn incitement of violence/slander, along with freedom of expression/1st amendment, there are some folks that are just too sensitive. Not calling out anyone here or any specific group,, rather as a generality. Just to stress this point, I am not telling you how to operate your business, sadly some people do not truly appreciate the ability to speak freely without actual censorship.
Bizarre as this concept is, some consider feelings more important than facts. Why this is the case, I’ll never truly understand if a person sincerely holds this ideology near and dear to themselves.
Stuart says
My comment was aimed at everyone and anyone, and not you or anyone else specifically. I don’t like to see bickering, for lack of a better word. There were a couple of comments waiting for me in my moderation box this morning, and I had to “trash” them because they were antagonistic, adding zero value to the discussion.
It is entirely possible to disagree with someone without making personal jabs.
I can be stubborn and opinionated, but am always open to counter points. That’s how I learn a lot these days.
There are three ways to counter a disagreeable opinion or inaccuracy: 1) Counter with facts and conclusions assembled in a coherent, polite, and hopefully inarguable manner, 2) Add emotion and throw some insults into the mix, 3) Give up, it’s too hard.
Facts, data, and observations are concrete. But interpretations and opinions can vary. I’ve seen how interpretations, beliefs, and opinions can deform and even change facts, data, and observations to the point where they’re no longer certain and fixed.
I WILL censor people if I need to. ToolGuyd should be rated PG 13, even PG. I don’t like doing so, and luckily I rarely have to.
My new test should be: “Is this a discussion that a teacher can read to their class?”
JoeM says
Twenty seconds to do a google search. Instead, got cursed and sworn at. And an insult passed on to my GRANDMOTHER of all people.
TotT is not someone with manners at all. They’re not someone who wanted to get their question answered, they’re someone who just wanted to yell at people who knew something he didn’t, and he showed that. I stand by what I’ve said. Whatever consequences they may carry, I take them with pride, knowing I did the right thing.
I know I CERTAINLY won’t be doing anyone’s google searches for them anymore, that’s for certain.
Vick says
Stuart,
As with that Tim fellow and if I may add, I am a avid reader, I strongly agree that incitement of violence/intentional slander is 100% never acceptable and I respect private property. However, some people are too easily offended over trite or even non issues.
Censorship in my opinion, is never the best option. Believe me, I wish the first amendment existed in my side of the pond. We have hate speech laws, but nothing to protect frankly different opinions. I’ve been told words can physical damage similar to gun shot and stabbing wounds, not as a joke, but in the literal sense. Please let that sentence sink in, as this isn’t just spouted by fringe groups anymore, rather mainstream legacy media does this frequently.
Just to stress this as for reasons that frankly are quite Orwellian in nature, a private business should be able operate within legal parameters, yet catering to loud minority that will intentionally be offended by anything and everything will eventually cause a business to lose profits.
Let’s face it Stuart, there is FAR worse that is shown on television with some genre’s/shows encouraging illegal or truly dangerous behavior. However, this should be the role of the companies to be the nannies of the population. If one needs to be told what they are allowed to think, read, watch or who they are allowed to communicate with, how is a individual supposed to think critically?
Over the years, I’ve had several friends that were either fined or actually jailed merely for civilly and non violently a difference of opinion. Yet I know in America you can have a different opinion and not be jailed or fined. Granted I imagine I know there are groups that would love to remove the 1st amendment and kill freedom of expression all together.
While I do encourage civil discussion, in reality, not everyone is going to be civil either in person or online. Regulating what others are allowed to say isn’t going to change anyone’s mind, if anything this will create even more radical fringe groups.
In short, all I am saying as someone that wishes I could without losing my job. career, fined a great deal of money or being sent to prison, Americans are lucky to have the freedoms they do have thanks to those who fought to preserve this. Sincerely, I wish my country had the exceptional leadership has shown for it’s citizens. Sadly that hasn’t been the case in a very, very, very long time.
Stuart says
There’s a big difference between the freedom of speech, and verbal (or written) abuse. While I have yet to come across views or opinions that I’ve had to censor in some way, I don’t have much tolerance for readers attacking each other in comments.
Personal attacks are not productive or polite counters to disagreeable opinions.
People have the right to fight with each other, just not here.
For the most part, ToolGuyd readers and commentors are remarkably civil. I don’t like the idea of changing or removing anyone’s words, but it’s something I must do every now and then, for the sake of the community.
Let things go wild, and harassment can quickly stifle and dominate a conversation.
JoeM says
The “First Amendment” prevents the Government from stopping you from speaking against them, or voicing an opinion in opposition. It is not a blanket ticket to say whatever you want without any sort of consequences. Everyone’s rights stop at a point just before they take away the rights of others, and so enforcement of everyone’s rights always involves one form of censorship or another. That is why Parents don’t have their Children taken away from them at birth, to be raised without rules by a government-enforced system. Parents have a right, and legal responsibility, to teach their children right from wrong, and to set the rules of their home. This is also why parents don’t get put in jail when they ground their child for spray-painting racial slurs on the neighbour’s house.
Stuart is not the Government, and as the owner/operator of ToolGuyd the First Amendment applies to his right to censor those who would make responding to conversations difficult with bullying and/or threats of violence. Stuart is well within his rights and responsibilities to enforce his rules on ToolGuyd as he sees fit, since ToolGuyd is an extension of HIS right to free speech. If his rules are to prevent personal attacks through editing posts, or removal of posts, then those are his rights. He is preserving the right of everyone involved to speak their peace, without others oppressing or suppressing them in return with bullying or personal attack methods.
There is nowhere in the world where anyone is truly free from the consequences of their actions. There will never be a place where you can just walk up to someone, punch them in the face without permission, and not be punished for your actions. Consequence-Free simply doesn’t exist. Even the laws of Physics state that there will always be a reaction to what you do. So if you’re looking for a place to move, where you won’t have consequences, you will never find one. Laws exist everywhere in the world, even Antarctica, where the law is that no single country can lay claim to the continent, or its surrounding waters or wildlife.
Cody says
Wow ! I hope that you have done some sort of research in the past 2+ years since your post here. You do get the same amount of amp hours out of your batteries that they advertise. Amp hours are not based on what tool you are using or what type of material you are working with. Amp hours are the energy that is stored inside the cells in the battery. These cells are manufactured by third party vendors not the company that manufacturers the actual battery pack, therefore we can look up the true ratings of these cells. The specs on those cells, done in laboratory testing, can be viewed by using google as others have stated. Judging by your comment about “spending $100 on a 5ah battery that only lasts 45min if you use it to do something other than the unmentioned task that the ah’s were based on”, it sounds to me like you are confusing the 5ah to mean that the battery should last you 5 hours of work on whichever tool you have it on no matter if you are driving screws or cutting hard wood with a saw. If so you truly are clueless. Of course that battery will last multiple times longer on the drill because it is pulling way fewer amps than that saw is that’s spinning that 7 1/4” blade through a treated 2×12. The “factual life” of the battery is printed boldly on every single package. If you did your research you would understand what you are looking at. In the time it took you to write that useless and misinformed rant you could have done the research. Yes they overcharge for batteries and I’m sure it will always be that way. That’s how they make their money. Most of the tools are decently priced and the multiple tool kits knock the price per tool down even more so they use the cost of batteries to make it up. With the newer li-ion technology, and I’m sure it’s only going to continue to improve, just think how far we’ve came in the last decade with capacities and battery life, you can get 5-7 years use out of that battery. All of the sudden that high initial cost isn’t so bad if you are still using that battery 5 years later.
Andrew says
These cells have no problem doing bursts of 90 amps. They are very very good cells. Truly roughly the same performance as the original 3.0 AH packs.
JoeM says
So… To summarize… We’re LITERALLY getting new slim-line style batteries for the 20 Volt family. So, now we could conceivably drop one of these in a Heated Jacket and not have to charge it at the end of the day, or run the jacket plus charge several mobile devices all day with ease.
You could, in theory, drop this on a Brushed DCS391, 3Ah is 3Ah… but I think the smaller battery would throw off the balance on the saw, so this high-capacity-low-profile design for the 3Ah (and I suspect soon a 4Ah version too) is meant mostly for long-lasting compact and brushless tools. It’s a very niche need within the 20 Volt Family, and may stop at the use on Lights.
I’d be interested in these. I have a heated jacket or two, and several small/compact tools that I’d prefer not to have a 2 pound battery on. And you can always use more tool batteries. No matter what, you can never have too many for your chosen system.
John fal says
I use the Milwaukee 12v battery and adapter on my Dewalt jacket. It fits in the pocket allot better. I’m glad they interchange 🙂
JoeM says
I don’t think they’re supposed to, but very interesting to know they can.
Are you powering the jacket with a DeWALT battery adapter (the slide on thing that comes with the jacket), or is the 12V power connector just universal to both jacket systems? I’m genuinely curious, because I’ve always thought my 12V Max batteries from my Dremel 8200 would fit better in the pocket, if Dremel or Bosch made a 12V Max USB/12V Out socket that could fit into the pocket.
I’m not a construction worker, so I use my DeWALT jacket as a Civilian. Also, my Mother is elderly, and has a Scooter, and I bought HER the 3-in-1 high reflective heated jacket for winter usage. So, knowing there is, in fact, a way to make that battery pocket more comfortable with a physically smaller battery system has been on my mind for a while now.
Thanks for any info you can provide on how this works for you!
John fal says
Well I have a Milwaukee hand warmer so I use its adapter and battery also on the Dewalt, the wire plugs are the same. I don’t use the Dewalt battery or adapter anymore, the Dewalt adapter and battery didn’t seem to fit in the pocket very well and was way to bulky. So u will need the adapter too.
Will not change out with tools though.
JoeM says
No no… My 20 Volt tools use the 20 Volt batteries no matter what. I’ve never actually encountered a problem with fitting the battery in the pocket, mostly because the zipper also acts as an expansion control for the battery pocket. Unzip the battery pocket zipper all the way around, and you can fit the large-format 3.0-5.0 batteries inside, turned sideways. Or, the slimline batteries, plus the slide-on device, and 2 USB cables plugged in, with the cables all facing upward, battery flat against the jacket-side of the pocket.
Admittedly, that pocket, no matter how you use it, smacks people you walk by when you use the jacket as a civilian. And when my Mother needs to use her jacket while sitting on the scooter, the battery adapter tends to dig into one side of her.
Hence why it intrigued me when you found success using another company’s battery pack and adapter for the DeWALT! I have to admit here, if that could work with a smaller battery system, like the Dremel 12V Max system… That’s a real interesting thing to look into! Just… I’m not going to go out and buy Milwaukee… I already use DeWALT and Dremel batteries, I don’t think I need yet another battery system. It’s enough to know it can work if I can find a way!
John fal says
Stuart,
you need to check out MXenes. It’s going to turn battery technology inside out! For example making a cool device like the Dewalt power station a long running generator, tools that can run nonstop for days and even flexible free moving cooled and heated clothing. Thought this might be worth your time checking out.
John fal says
Here’s the link I found on that battery technology https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-22-mxene-new-miracle-material-with-applications-in-energy-storage-biology-electronics-medicine.html. I also found out another new lithium technology using solid glass electrolytes and polymer in lithium batteries to make them safer and give them 3 times the power!
Christian Borchard says
If DeWalt was so great, they would be able to stand by these batteries and exchange them when they develop a new and improved one. I have the original battery which came with my DeWalt drill, running time is about twenty minutes…. And it’s the same style as this new one, but it’s more money than the drill. Lame lame lame
Stuart says
Batteries are consumables.
They all have warranty periods, covering defects and the such, but also limited lifetimes.
JoeM says
If you bought an old style DCB203 in March, and the same store you bought it at put the new DCB230s on the shelves in April or May, I’m sure you could get DeWALT to do an exchange if you really wanted them to, but that would be a customer service type of thing. If we’re talking after 3 years? No. The warranty on batteries is 3 years. That’s all there is to it.
I don’t get to use my 3Ah batteries as often as my 1.5s and 2.0Ah battery, and so mine are quite old now. If they work at this point, great. If they don’t, it’s time to replace them. I may not have got a lot of use out of them, but 3 years is up, and they have better batteries out now anyways. No use crying over something so replaceable, especially when you have more than one tool that uses them.
Joe Smith says
That’s ridiculous. No company does that.
Batteries have a limited lifetime. Expecting to bring in 5 year old batteries and get new ones for free is asinine.
John fal says
Here’s the link for the new glass lithium technology, created by the man who invented the lithium battery himself. I hope everyone finds this interesting as I do. https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
firefly says
I have seen that awhile back. I can’t wait for something fruitful came out of it. Battery energy density and charge time have been one of the biggest hold back in battery operated device. Imagine a being able to drive from Dallas to Houston to Austin and back to Dallas on a single charge on a Telsa. That would be sooo nice!
John fal says
I’m sure that day will come, but they will probably have to put a big tax on it. lol
U know the states don’t want to lose that tax money from the pump.
firefly says
Oh I can imagine. I remember hearing they complain about it with hybrid and other fuel efficient car already…
Paul K says
Batteries and the Craftsman brand, two topics that never fail to draw angry people out of their holes.
For what it’s worth, I like smaller lighter batteries for just about everything except saws and yard tools. Only reasons to be walking around with a 6ah battery in a drill or impact driver is if you spend your day making 1 1/2″ hole after hole with a daredevil bit, are multi-tasking and trying to build up arm strength while also driving screws, or have been dropped in the wilderness miles from the next battery.
Maybe in a professional environment where the purchasing manager is calculating cost per amp hour and recharge cycles…maybe, but even then, the guy holding the tool costs vastly more than the batteries that go in his tool. Him being more nimble and efficient and happy so continuously productive saves way more money than a heavy battery.