Dewalt has announced a new FlexVolt 20V/60V Max 15.0Ah Li-ion battery, model DCB615.
This is the highest capacity battery Dewalt has ever launched as part of their 20V Max of FlexVolt cordless power tool systems.
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Dewalt press materials describe the types of users and applications they have in mind for this new battery:
Delivering a new threshold of performance in the FLEXVOLT Battery lineup, the 15.0 Ah battery is designed to provide maximum runtime in heavy-duty commercial applications including concrete and masonry, metalworking, building, and remodeling.
The battery is compatible with all Dewalt 20V Max (and FlexVolt) chargers.
Dewalt says it can be used in outdoor temperatures as low as 0°F.
The battery has a 3-LED fuel gauge.
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Price: $349
ETA: September 2021
Dewalt has also announced two new 60V Max brushless SDS Max combination rotary hammers, which they say are ideal pairings for the new FlexVolt 15.0Ah battery. Read more about Dewalt’s new 1-7/8″ (DCH735) and 2″ (DCH775) rotary hammers here.
Note: 15Ah is measured in 20V Max mode, which is in line with how Dewalt’s previous FlexVolt products were described.
Update: As readers pointed out in comments, the new 15Ah battery weighs 4.5 lbs as per its product page specs. This suggests that its not just equipped with higher capacity cells, but that it might physically be a larger battery with higher cell count.
Discussion
It shouldn’t come as any surprise that Dewalt launched a new 15Ah battery, especially since the same cells are presumably used in the 10Ah batteries that launched with their new cordless lawn mower.
What will see next – compact 5Ah batteries?
Dewalt has so far announced two new rotary hammers that they describe as being ideal tools for use with the new battery. What other high performing tools do you think are on their roadmap?
Jared
Geez that’s big. I wonder if it’s even needed at this point or just a bit of future-proofing.
I would like a Dewalt Powerstation equipped with four of these, just because.
Stuart
They wouldn’t make it if users didn’t ask for it.
Keiko
Agreed. Great business logic. Explains Makita 40V XGT product line.
Phil
Lol. A bit late to the party
Tom D
Not true – it can be a profitable endeavor even if it simply lets them win a spec-sheet war.
Not that I think this is a case of this – as we have more stationary battery tools (think table saws) the desire for a “whole day” battery will increase.
Stuart
Perhaps, but I have not yet seen any such tactics from Dewalt or other Stanley Black & Decker brands.
D
Made where….China? Probably.
Domdymond
China, Korea, Malaysia
Leo B.
Man, that’s pricey. I wonder if it’ll fit in the rear-handle saw? I’m sure some remodelers and demo crews will appreciate the extra capacity for reciprocating saws, but that’ll be a tank to carry. Definitely an interesting innovation!
Tom D
I have the 12ah M18 and I find I usually use it for “stationary” tools – lights, table saws, etc.
Rarely I use it with the sawzall. I could see it being used for a lawnmower.
Leo B.
I generally only use a 5ah on the SawZall as well, but I do remember a specific thread somewhere about a guy who ran cordless for his remodeling company and wanted more power than the Flexvolt reciprocating saw provided. I don’t know, all day users may want more than the current options. It’d be super heavy though, as a downside.
Anatolij
You will often welcome more weight on a chain saw. This battery has the same height as 12Ah (18V) / 4Ah (54V), only its length differs.
Big Richard
It’s clearly larger, could it be that it is not a 15 cell 21700 battery, but a 30 cell 18650 battery? Kinda looks about the same dimensions as their 30 cell 40v 7.5Ah battery. Weight is about the same, too (4.5lbs vs 4.2lbs).
With their 20v batteries, the 10Ah pack is a little bigger than the 6Ah and 8Ah, despite all three being 10 cell packs. So it makes sense that the difference would carry over in a 15 call pack with a 15Ah pack being a little bigger than the 9Ah and 12Ah, but it looks significantly bigger. Idk.
Stuart
It’s definitely possible.
They have a 10Ah 20V Max battery, and so this *could* just add another row of cells for 15Ah.
But if you look at the rotary hammer images, the battery slots do look to be extended.
30 x 3.6V x 2.5Ah would indeed provide the same watt-hours as a 15 x 3.6V x 5.0Ah battery.
If this is indeed a 30-cell battery, this would effectively be a double-sized FlexVolt battery.
This opens up more potential for dual-battery 20V Max tools and can push their 120V Max system to new levels of power and runtime.
There hasn’t been a new 120V Max FlexVolt tool since the line and its 6Ah batteries first launched.
Big Richard
I forgot to mention that SBD also already offers a 30 cell 18650 battery, the Craftsman V60 5Ah battery. So most of the engineering is already there, it’s really not that much a stretch to turn that battery into a FlexVolt battery. And really, they are not crazy big compared to the 15 cell 21700 batteries.
Either way, like you said I can see this opening up some more 120v MAX tools, hopefully. Snow blower?
Chris G
Yes please snow blower. SBD hope you are reading!
John Fal
Give them 5 years 🙄
dave9
The amount of engineering saved by already having a Craftsman V60 battery, is practically zero. Everything from the form factor, casing design, contacts shoe, circuit, etc is going to be different.
The way to save on engineering is just use a flexvolt 18650 design but put 21700 cells in a geometrically expanded case.
Ben
looking at DeWalt’s product page for the 15 ah battery it is listed as 4.5 pounds, compared to the 12 ah battery that is 3.2 pounds. for the 15 ah battery to be 1.3 pounds heavier you’d think they must have added extra cells.
XRH07
it’s larger due to added heatsinking and longer because they stagger the cells differently so the pack isn’t too tall and can fit in all/most existing tools with a battery cage.
A 5Ah 21700 (AKA Samsung 50S) can’t output as much as a Samsung 30T or 40T in a continuous duty application. They can be pushed a bit harder than the base ~20A rating if you can manage the heat though.
That’s also why the 10Ah 20V pack is physically larger than the 6/8 XR 10 cell 21700 cell packs.
Big Richard
Totally agree with you, but the 10Ah is only slightly physically larger than the 6Ah and 8Ah, and weighs only a few ounces more. This guy looks significantly larger compared to the 9Ah and 12Ah and weighs over a pound more. That is why I brought up the question as to whether it is possibly a 30 cell 18650. Just have to wait and see.
Normally, I would say it has to be a 15 cell 21700. But I had a similar line of thinking when Makita announced their 5Ah XGT battery, thinking it had to be 10 cell 21700, but turned out to be a 20 cell 18650. Again, just have to wait and see.
Mike
It appears that it might be the same height as the 9and 12amp but it looks longer which is good because it would be able to fit in my 71/4 miter saw
Serendipity
This was my thought, then I realized the battery cost more than the saw.
MM
First off: awesome. Good for my flexvolt tools, also good (but big!) for my 20V max tools.
I’d love to see a 60V impact gun. Milwaukee has been eating Dewalt’s lunch in that department, they even have a 1″ drive model rated at 2000 ft-lb on the 18v system. Dewalt can get back in the fight with a 60V model. I’d also love to see a 60v portable winch/hoist, and a 7-inch version of their Flathead-style angle grinder. The smaller one (20V) is *awesome*. I want a bigger one too. They should be able to make a 10″ portable table saw using two 60V batteries.
Most of the tools I want to see from Dewalt would be fine on the 20V max platform:
– beltfile aka powerfile, a slender belt sander. It is mindboggling that Dewalt does not make these.
– compact inline jigsaw or cordless body saw
-drill with higher max RPM…say up to 5-6k rpm in the highest gear.
-glue gun (I know surebonders which take Dewalt batteries exist, but it would be nice to get a factory model)
-Die grinder with right-angle head
Steve
I’ll second the glue gun but belt sanders suck up to much battery too fast unless you use an unreasonably battery. This is why only Ridgid and Ryobi make them.
MM
The type of belt sander I am talking about is not a typical one, the belts range from 1/4″ to 1/2″ wide with 3/8″ being the most common standard width. And it is no technical challenge, these tools are already made in cordless versions by Ryobi, Makita, Hilti, Metabo, Ingersoll Rand, Matco, Snap-On, and SP tools.
Ridgid does make a standard (wide) belt sander but as far as I know they do not make a powerfile.
I think the issue is that in North America these seem to be considered automotive specialty tools and are not well known while in Europe they are widely used by standard contractors for cutting mortises for locks in doors and are nearly as common as a drill or a circular saw.
Mr. Creek
That’s awesome! It will probably be a while before they’re in stock for us plebs. Spendy on the $/Amp hour. But R&D ain’t cheap either. I knew it was only a matter of time before that flexvolt hybrid system would push past competitors. Makes the 6 amp flexvolt I proudly acquired years ago look like, that scrawny annoying cousin that runs around a family reunion with a squirt gun.
Wonder how long before we see a flexvolt slim pack?
Joatman
I’m curious how these larger batteries perform towards the end of their lives compared to smaller batteries. Do they perform at the top of their game and then crap out over a long period of time until they can’t hold a charge any longer ………or is it more sudden? I’m not referring to the discharge rate of a new or healthy battery, I’m referring to the end of life performance. It would be interesting to see a graph that shows this.
Stuart
I don’t think that end-of-life discharge profiles will be any different than for smaller battery packs. Larger battery packs are typically built with similar if not the same Li-ion cells as smaller ones.
Virgil
The issue with these flexvolt batteries operating in 60 volt max mode is that every single cell has to remain healthy. If just one of the cells prematurely ages, the voltage drop will be significant. Every single cell needs to be supplying 4 volts max to get to 60.
On the other hand, in more conventional 20 volt max only batteries, there’s somewhat more redundancy and wear leveling available.
Stuart
I guess we’ll find out in a couple of years?
I haven’t heard of any notably or widespread issues with any brands’ serial-only-configuration battery packs over the years.
dave9
It doesn’t necessarily matter because if any cell becomes weak the charger will reject it also if it’s conventional 20V.
Mike (the other one)
I feel like this is a sign of several new heavy duty models coming.
Mike (the other one)
Tools, I mean.
Stuart
You’re not alone in this.
Aaron S
pro: it is very large
con: it is very large
Robm
And yet I have no use for it, but I’ll take two please lol
MFC
I’m going to plug this into my impact driver and it will double as a mallet.
JoeM
Bring it on. Peak activity for the line, in my own belief, is when they start releasing the really, really powerful tools because they’ve released the 20Ah FlexVOLT Battery with and without the Oil-proof Sealing. When that pair of batteries comes to market? That will be an absolutely spectacular release year for both the 20Volt Max, and FlexVOLT lineups. I’d even suspect some grand releases in the 12 Volt family as well. Why? Because I think DeWALT, in my opinion here, waits for really big numbers attached to specs of tools and batteries, and uses that to show off new offerings that they’ve held back until that point.
Because… Of Course a FlexVOLT Mag Drill will blow everyone else out of the water with a 20 AH FlexVOLT battery loaded. And Of Course that wet tile and granite saw, with built in coolant dispenser, will run on one or two Oil-Resistant 20Ah FlexVOLT Batteries… And the Disc Sander… the Dune Buggy… The Go Cart… and because they can? The motorized Cherry Picker Engine Crane for Automotive Use… You asked for more lighting? 2M Search Light for inspection purposes (Comes with Novelty Bat Signal overlay, with DeWALT cut out the center.)… Most of this I’m joking about, but I do believe the 20Ah FlexVOLT battery will be when they release all those huge gaps in their lineup they’ve been avoiding until then.
Steve
Everybody is missing one aspect to this that the Dewalt platform benefits from here, OPE. This is essentially their 5Ah 60V OPE battery, an area they topped out at 4Ah in before. Competitors in that voltage arena have 6 and 7.5 batteries commonly. Dewalt is making a big push into OPE and without a dedicated higher voltage platform, 60V is it. 60V has the advantage of 20V compatibility for the batteries but that is a drawback in the case of having to fit 20V tools. This moves Dewalt in the right direction, but they still need higher Ah 60V batteries to compete with the other OPE brands at that level.
On another note, I think I’ll get one for my DCL040.
Nathan
So the comment on the battery set stagger and the extra heat sinking – makes alot of sense for the packaging. I was wondering if that extra black area infront of the connection slide might be for some additional electronics.
Seems like it’d be beast to control on some tools. but 5AH in flexvolt mode I’d like to see a run time demo in 3 tools. 1 the flexvolt circ saw, 2 the 2 battery miter saw, and 3 the big stand 20V light. Just to see how it works out.
Amazing. OH and while at it – put that joker on the new flexvolt attachment capabile string trimmer.
RyanH
Since JoeM brought up Go Karts, maybe Dewalt could make a kids riding Jeep like Kobalt does? I bought one and the thing is a hit. The biggest drawback on any kids riding toy is the battery, but when Kobalt gives you a battery warranty, that goes away. Now my son can ride his Jeep into the woods and join me when I cut up brush with my Dewalt chainsaw.
MM
A power-assisted wheelbarrow, garden cart, or 2-wheel dolly wouldn’t be a bad idea either!
JoeM
It was a joke originally, but truth be told, I’m an honest DeWALT fanboy, and none of your suggestions seem “Off the Table” once that 20Ah threshold has been achieved for the company. Just imagine the runtime for their Lawn Mowers… Now put a seat on top… What’s stopping them at that point? Aside from them never having done such a thing before, what seems “Off the Table” for their top-of-the-line battery lineup?
Corey Moore
DeWalt or SBDC have a patent for what looked to be an answer to Fuel MXC which seemed to be a modular sort of 3 wheeler with optional equipment such as a bucket/mini-ex. I’ll have to see if I can find it again, it came up awhile ago.
RyanH
Ooooo, that sounds cool. Is there a link for the patent with pictures?
Corey Moore
So I found the video from doresoom, going over DeWalt patents 2020, dunno if Stu allows links but I’ll try here.
https://youtu.be/EmXcvbwHgtw
If not the video is just called
‘Dewalt 2020 patents-New tool predictions for 2020!’ on Doresoom’s YouTube. Might have misremembered the mini-ex part lol but he’s got the run-down on landscaping attachments, battery setup and inverters, all sorts of stuff. Tried watching to screenshot the patent number itself and link the actual doc, but I’m at work and wasn’t having much luck lol The mower concept from the same video is interesting as well.
RyanH
A Dewalt trike! That is super cool, and the idea of using it for home backup is neat too. That might bring some much needed competition to the home battery market.
Randy S
OPE for sure is on the list, but this also makes me wonder if Dewalt is going to try for another push into the trades. This could easily run a decent sized sewer machine, especially if run with 2 packs.
Franco Calcagni
This website and its followers have an utter fascination with battery cells (21700 and 18650). I followed many of the Makita XGT comments, and there also people get caught up on the cells. Be it the XGT or this Flexvolt battery, they now exist. To postulate which cells are in and have arguments over it are a moot point. The battery is there, its size, watt hours and all else are already baked in, and is what is REALLY important… not what’s in it. If the specs are stated and the battery delivers specs, why does it matter at this point if it is 21700 and 18650, or if Samsung or Sanyo made them.
I can’t see anyone going to HD or any hardware store and asking a sales person “does this have 21700 or18650 in it”. Even less could I see any of the sales people knowing the answer.
Basic chemistry, volts x amps = watts (I know someone will say “but these are what hours”…please save the elementary response). I think what pros, renovators, DIYer’s care about is the size of the battery, how long it will last and price.
Stuart
It is absolutely NOT a moot point.
There are many factors that can directly influence tool performance, and battery cell size, count, and type are incredibly important here.
If you saw how many “can I use…”, “what’s the difference between…”, and “which battery for…” questions I field via email and messages, you’d understand why details and differentiations are important.
You bring up watts – not watt-hours; the current – or amps – that can be delivered by a battery pack is largely dependent on cell count, size, and type. You can NOT extrapolate output capabilities from just amp-hours or watt-hours.
Beyond the simple existence of new battery options, the fact of the matter is that new battery tech almost always paves the way for new tool innovations.
Understanding the what and how behind a new battery design can allow for more accurate predictions and expectations of new tools to come.
Also, let’s say you have two battery packs, and all you know about them is that they have the same voltage and amp-hour rating. That is NOT enough to properly match it to a particular cordless power tool.
For instance, depending on the tool and application, a 5-cell battery won’t last as long compared to a 10-cell battery that has the same charge capacity. If you have two 10-cell batteries, one with 18650 cells and one with 21700 cells, there are tools and more demanding applications where the battery pack with the larger cells will last longer.
For anyone who needs it, here’s a primer on battery pack basics:
https://toolguyd.com/revisiting-what-amp-hour-means-cordless-power-tool-batteries/
Franco Calcagni
Hence the pointless bickering.
You have in your HAND the Flexvolt 15ah battery, or the XGT 2.5ah battery, or any other battery on the market. What is the point of all the…”they might have used 10 18650″ followed by someone else’s guess that it may be 21700 batteries. It’s a moot point, you are not engineering the battery; its done and in your hands.
The incessant arguments of how many cells and the MFR are pointless. The battery says it has X ah, it is Y voltage, and it has Z watt hours. As long as it lives up to to X, Y, and Z, all is good. An oversimplification is that the battery is a gas tank, and just like in a car or truck, bigger gets you more, but it also adds more weight and bulk. I have hooked up a 1.5ah battery to a recip saw and it worked. But because tools are not resistive, amperage drain is not a constant. So under light load, cutting through 1/4″ plywood, it worked. But under heavy load, such as treated 2 x 4’s, the 1.5 ah will stall the tool or burn (BTW, the 1.5 on the recip was done strictly for testing; not what I commonly would use). So, yes, larger ah batteries work better on tools that under heavy load can draw lots of amps, and these bigger batteries have the reserves for the amperage spikes. This is no different than a typical 15 amp circular saw, the blade binds and the motor starts drawing additional amperage and either the saw burns (cheap saw) or your breaker blows. It is not uncommon for the draw to be in the 20-30 amp range, possibly spiking just over 30 amps for a millisecond. But your home electrical can handle moderate spikes and has a breaker to protect when there is significant spikes.
All the “it has 2 rows of 5 cells” followed by “I heard it has 3 rows of 5 cells” then “really, I don’t see how that is possible comparing it to my ABC battery which is SUPPOSED to have 3 rows of 5 cells, it can’t be”. Does it really matter, just use the battery and tool.
I have to ask all my contractor buddies if any of them have ever heard anyone talking about this cell nonsense in the field. “Hey Randy, this my new cordless saw, the battery is supposed to have 2 rows of 5 of the 21700 cells!!!” Is Randy going to stop what he is doing and respond in amazement, or just tell you to pull up your skirt and get back to work?
JoeM
Ah, so you’re claiming the Blue Collar Worker doesn’t care about what goes into his tools?
Okay, if you feel so strongly about that… Tell me, who was it that complained most when Samsung Smartphones began overheating, and exploding? Common users. Blue Collar Workers. Pretty much anyone who had heard the news.
Now…Unlike a Cell Phone, these Battery Packs actually make workers money. Those very Blue Collar workers you’re offensively calling out as “Randy” proclaims you should “Pull up your Skirt and Get Back to Work”… But let me propose this other scenario.
A flaw is found in a batch of 21700 cells. Being a remarkably common product in Asia outside the Tool industry, the News begins reporting that these cells begin leaking Lithium after a slight defect in the manufacturing process results in the basic Battery design becoming significantly more Acidic at the worst time possible… when it is in use. The problem is caused when one weak spot in the encasement is eaten away by the electrified medium between Anode and Cathode in the cell. The formula is now known to have been just off enough to do this damage. The new 21700’s are now a liability. Not just to the Tool Company, but to the workers and the company they work for, with their bottom line for their work being the ultimate victim here.
Having heard the news, ask your Contractor Buddies again… Will they walk onto the jobsite, see a freshly charged bank of these brand new FlexVOLT batteries… and just use them? Or will they say “Hey Randy? Are these new batteries made in the last few months? There’s a bunch that are exploding because of a manufacturing flaw. Shouldn’t we take a few minutes to check these and see if we need to trade them in for something else? We don’t want Jimmy dropping one in while he’s working on the Drywall, and burning down the whole project!”
The Cells matter. Knowing what goes into your tools, matters. Understanding the science behind your tool, matters. The more you know, the less can go wrong. The more you can service yourself, the better worker you can be. People who make the clothing you wear are no less important to your job than those who assemble and test your tools. Do you think the tailors and seamstresses simply walk away from the machine when a stitch goes wrong? Or when the thread runs out on the machine? Do they walk away and never return, because they don’t know anything other than pushing the pedal, and the stitches come out? No. Like any worker, they grab a spool, or a seam ripper, or some other required equipment for the job, and they set things up so that they can continue on, without worrying about something simple costing them time and money in the process of doing their jobs.
If the lowest of the low grade worker, worldwide, needs to know more than “We hand you this equipment, use it” then you need to know more than “Here’s the battery, get to work.” Your safety, and credibility as a worker, are in question if you don’t know these things. And what’s more, you insult everyone who has ever done any work with power tools, by insinuating that none of us either care, nor do we understand, the importance of getting the real specs out of press releases for our own future problem solving needs.
We need to know what goes into the process of our tools, in case they discover a flaw. And we need to know what goes into what we buy as individuals, because understanding the progress a company makes, informs our next purchase, what we can expect down the line, and long into the future. The longevity of a purchase is equally as important as knowing the right settings to use on the tool, to do each job. Nothing in this world benefits from being handed something, and blindly following orders. Followers like that cost people time, money, and often other people’s lives, simply by not understanding when something, or someone, is doing something dangerous or wrong.
You’re advocating blind ignorance of the tools. This blog is dedicated to doing the opposite. You’re going to have to come to terms with the content presented as it is, because the Site’s owner and operator is Stuart. You don’t get editorial control over anything he chooses to put on the site, or the priorities he places on community discussion of these kinds of details you are complaining about. You have a choice. Come here to get the best possible ongoing information on the tools, or go someplace where they’re just going to hand you the tech speak, give you some stars on it, and let you loose to go buy it like a good little drone, oblivious to the fact that what you’re buying contains something revolutionary to keep an eye out for should it ever be deemed dangerous.
Stuart
To be fair, users don’t *need* to have a deeper understanding of their tools or batteries, but it absolutely can benefit them.
At the least, it makes a difference when you’re at the store staring at a slimmer 3Ah battery and a chunkier one. Knowing what’s going on under the hood helps one make more informed purchasing decisions that best suit their needs and wants.
If Franco doesn’t care about battery cell count, sizes, or anything related to under-the-hood tech, that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with seeing a battery pack as a black box with just a cordless power tool brand name, voltage, and charge capacity written on its side.
And, he doesn’t have to like the conversation either.
There are “steak is steak, if it comes from a cow it’s all the same” people, and then there are those will happily talk about details.
Here on ToolGuyd, the details are interesting, and they matter. But if someone isn’t interested, you can’t force them. But, he also doesn’t have the right to try to shut down conversations others are interested in. It’d be unproductive to argue with a “shut up about this, I’m bored” type of attitude, but that he thinks deeper discussion is pointless, I’m obligated to try to explain why it’s not.
Franco Calcagni
Well, I showed this response to one of my buddies….he laughed. He couldn’t believe the length of this answer. BTW, he, me or anyone else would care if their batteries explode; but that was not the original topic.
He said he needs to work and doesn’t have time for all the what ifs or could have & should have. He leaves that to people not in the field, that seem to know so much
JoeM
Yes, Franco, I type things out a lot. I had a very strict Jewish Grandmother, and a proper education in the English Language. It is a burden I must bare, that I form full sentences and paragraphs according to the Queen’s English. I’m not being sarcastic, or arguing your point, simply admitting my fault here. The way I speak, and type, is not compatible with the Modern short-form Internet speak. Ask Stuart… I have got myself into trouble by typing so much in the past. And for that, I apologize.
As to you asking your buddy what he thought… that’s called a Confirmation Bias. It doesn’t validate your point any more than your original statement. Since he shares your values, being key to your friendship/connection, he’s just going to echo your sentiment in different words. It really doesn’t prove anything.
And yes, you prove my point when you use your buddy’s view that he has to work, and doesn’t pay attention to all the possibilities. Leaving it to others doesn’t make either of you better at what you do, it simply means neither of you would check your safety before risking injury at work. It’s actually rather irresponsible of both of you to be this way.
Now… When you say “He leaves that to people not in the field, that seem to know so much” … I have to ask you, and in effect him as well, Who, exactly, do you think is in this thread “Bickering” about the cells in the batteries? Are we all you and your buddy? Or are we the ones you would leave all that kind of concern to? Because… I can assure you that the vast majority of the people “Bickering” are workers just like you and your buddy… They’re just better educated on the batteries, because they actively keep themselves informed on the topic for their own safety.
There’s no need to be hostile toward the act of keeping up with safety measures, and the technology that enables you to work. Yeah… Some of us are Nerds… Look around you in the world… Being a Nerd really helps raise your value as a worker these days. The guys higher up in the thread aren’t really angry at eachother, they’re just… Nerding out… It’s what we Nerds do… I can pick up a saw, drill, or other tool, and work on whatever I want to… I happen to know how each of the tools works as well, but it doesn’t mean you’re a better worker. It just means you aren’t interested in what we’re talking about. That’s all.
Franco Calcagni
JoeM, I harbor (or harbour, the Queen’s English) no malice or ill will towards you or any of the others that like these deep discussions about the battery cells. I think I may have been misinterpreted.
I was pointing out that if Milwaukee were to announce a new 15ah battery for around Christmas, with no pics or specs, I suppose suggesting the possible configurations is one thing.
The XGT batteries are out and have been for a while, even if only introduced in the USA in the last month or so. I am going to assume the 15ah Flexvolt is “baked”, it is not going to change. In these instances I find the conversations somewhat tedious.
Nevertheless, you, Stuart and anyone else can go on about them as much as you please. No, I am not giving you permission, you and all, are free to do as you please, despite what I think. 🙂
Vards Uzvards
JoeM, “bear” instead of “bare”, right?
JoeM
@Franco I’m Canadian. Queen’s/King’s English is the dialect for spelling I’m using. It’s not a judgment on who is speaking a better, or worse, way. One isn’t better than the other. If you look it up on a computer’s language options, the thing called the “Language Pack” is simply the dictionary being used for autocorrect, and for the labels on things like a window or app, given the spelling. You’re likely using en-US on most of your devices, where I’m using en-GB on mine. I genuinely mean no insult about your language, I am perfectly fine using either one.
And, no… I don’t think you were literally insulting us Nerds… It’s just a reflex we have, since we still tend to grow up being hated for knowing things. I apologize if I have offended you with this. I gotta work on that particular reflex. It isn’t the first time I have reacted that way, instead of thinking it through.
And @Vards… That’s a Bear of a debate, isn’t it? (insert laughing emoji here, because I don’t know how to do it here on this site.) Bear versus Bare. As far as I can tell, I used “bare” correctly. It’s the “Stripped of all Excess” and “To carry with effort” one in Queen’s English… I believe Americans, and other British colonies like Australia, use them interchangeably to mean the ones I mentioned for “bare” and also for the non-animal meaning “Very Strongly Battle” which seems to fit thematically with the intent. Unfortunately, even in other language uses, the “Very Strongly Battle” version of “Bear” is not strictly a grammatically correct term. It only applies to a handful of Cliche or Quaint sayings, such as “Bear Through It” and a few others. That version still gets used though. I do love the intricacies of languages, but putting such a fine edge on these words tends to start arguments. Then it’s not so much fun anymore.
And, yeah… I’ve been kinda laughing and giggling since you wrote that response… I literally don’t know how to do Emojis on this site, and I’ve been using it on my PC, running Linux. No such help boxes for Emojis pop up anywhere. Otherwise there’d be significantly more in my responses to everyone. Because I do genuinely get a kick out of talking to most of you, and have a good laugh at things.
Franco Calcagni
FYI – I am CDN also, Montreal burbs, just on the Ontario border.
I am not really categorized as one thing (character), but most closely relate to either nerds or rockers…weird connection [head scratch]., but have always hung around with all the groups since high school….grease monkeys, jocks, propeller heads, the cool and the uncool and pretty any other.
Last 20 years or so, sports and cars diminished but computers took over most of my time. That led to me getting a job selling IT to companies.
Anyway, that’s all she wrote….for now.
JoeM
Really Franco? That… sounds remarkably similar to some relatives of mine. My Father, Aunt, and Grandmother, were all born in Montreal.
But my Grandmother was combative and strict with language… so… I grew up extremely scrutinized when spelling or grammar was used from anywhere beyond 1950… ish… That’s why I make the comment about the Queen’s English… My Grandmother, a Jewish Grandmother to boot, I’m sure you’ve heard legends of them from living anywhere near Quebec, was also in the RAF during WWII. With no copy of her service records available, and absolutely no trace of what her actual job title was. She was quite the task master. As such… I type a lot, I phrase things very old-fashioned, and it annoys the living snot out of people online. But, unfortunately, this is just me at this point.
I knew Quebec could be hostile to English speakers, I didn’t realize they could produce someone like you, who comes off as being American instead of Canadian. In terms of the Canadian trademarks being so subverted anyways. I apologize for making the assumption, and it’s nice to see more of our fellow Canadians here on the site!
Stuart
Nobody has this “in their hands,” as the battery isn’t launching until September.
If you see this as “pointless bickering,” you could always glean what you need or are interested in from the main post and move on.
I’m sorry that you’re so unhappy about the nature of batter pack discussions.
That’s the thing – this statement is an observation but NOT a fact. It is true most of the time, but it is not universally true.
Let’s say you have a 2.5Ah battery and a 3.0Ah battery. Or a 5.0Ah battery and a 6.0Ah battery. The battery packs are all the same physical size and so the only difference is in the Li-ion cell charge capacity.
User A has the lower capacity battery. User B has the higher capacity battery.
When used with heavy duty tools under heavy load, there will be times when User B is going to be scratching their head because their higher amp-hour battery gave out or shut down due to a thermal sensor trip while User A is still working with their lower amp-hour battery.
This not just theory. I spoke to a brand engineer a while back as to why they didn’t offer a similar 6Ah battery as their competitor. Their testing showed that 5Ah batteries routinely outperformed 6Ah. This is presumably why the brands that do have 10-cell 18650-based 6Ah battery packs almost pretend as if they don’t exist.
With this Dewalt battery, that it seems to be built with 30 cells instead of 15, this is a significant and impactful development.
If you disagree or don’t want to dive deeper, you can simply skip the headlines or comment sections that could offend you.
Franco Calcagni
“Nobody has this “in their hands,” as the battery isn’t launching until September”…not meant literal but as more than likely a done deal.
Ron
Hit the nail on the head. Cell discharge ratings matter.
2000mAh 18650 cells = 30 A
2500mAh 18650 cells = 20 A
3000mAh 18650 cells = 15 A
Math explains the rest.
Ron
Basically they had two choices for the 15 Ah FlexVolt
– 30 2500mAh 18650 cells at 20 amps each
– 15 5000mAh 21700 cells at 9.8 amps each.
The math is strongly in favor of the 18650s.
Brody
Once you go deep enough into a community you hit the nerds/enthusiasts. You’re just seeing the armchair arguments, because that’s what we’re into.
It work on anything, the general user of a computer doesn’t really care what CPU is in it so long as it works, but if you’re on a tech news site you’re going to be flooded with fanboys, petty arguments, spec comparing, and predicting all day long.
Works with all communites, most people get along just fine driving their car, but x community cares about the drag, size of motor, torque/hp, off road capabilities. But you also have the gearheads, audiophiles, people obsessing with minute details about pens.
To me personally I like knowing whats coming out, how it compares to what we currently have (will it perform better, longer, and lighter), and what we need out of the tools that just simply aren’t available right now but could be with better battery tech, motor design, and weight savings.
JoeM
As I cross into both communities you mention, I hope you don’t mind if I phrase my comment as such: Right there with you, Brother!
Yeah, I regretfully have a degree in Computer Science that I never get to use, so… Specs matter to me for tech. I may not do as much “Bickering” with others, but I certainly will prognosticate, drool, and try to fathom the resulting abilities such advances allow.
It carries over to ToolGuyd here, where much of the Tech that I used to see daily, is remarkably similar to the tech being used within the tools. So I see no conflict in getting excited over what’s coming through the pipeline to the tool users.
Stuart has even caught me off guard, and blown my mind with the existence of several of these tools. Not necessarily technology based either.
Franco Calcagni
I understand what you are saying and think you have hit the nail on the head. After all, this is a good website/forum in finding out about new tools…even if some like to delve into the “would have, could have and should have” about battery cells 🙂
josh Morris
I’m hoping this means more stationary flexvolt tools or expansion of current ones, would love to see 10 inch 120v table saw with a plug option
Or a more powerful cordless dust extractor
Would love to see flexvolt mower
These big packs just make things like actually using miter saw all day look like no problem
josh Morris
Also would love to see an update to their 7 1/4 sliding miter, make it brushless double bevel, Flexvolt or not.
Kirk
Yeah, why not double bevel 7¼ miter? Even Kobalt made a second 20v double bevel miter. I went ridgid. A double bevel 10″ table saw? belt sander( never had use until using my old heavy electric belt sander to clean rounded composite deck cuts around inground pool, cords everywhere ,bad combo.) 8 1/4 or 10″ worm beam saw. Maybe they’re kitting these with the new Segway and Quad.
Tiberious
$1400 for 4 to power the Dewalt Power Station. Now Milwaukee MX Power Station sounds like a hell of a deal?
josh Morris
Yes and no, as the Milwaukee one had only as much watt hours as 4 12ah dewalt, so you are getting notably more juice
Matt
In a stationary tool or OPE lawnmower or something I’m sure the size/weight won’t matter. Just a word of caution to other users (at the risk of stating the obvious): Bigger batteries can really alter the feel of smaller tools, and bigger is not always better. Case in point, I recently purchased the 12″ DeWalt chainsaw (which is pretty awesome, BTW, and even more awesome with a 14″ bar) and it’s a nimble little guy with the 5ah battery. So I thought “I’ll get a big battery and it’ll run longer!” Which isn’t wrong, but holy cow the 9ah battery is a brick. It balances OK since it’s located in the rear but it also makes the whole thing heavier than my 18″ Stihl 251. Experienced users already know this, and I should have known this, but just a word to the wise when considering these big FlexVolt batteries.
Jeff
Does anyone know how many and what size cells are in these?
Fabian
18650
Jeff
The 9ah and 12ah has 21700 cells but the 15ah has 18650 cells? That doesn’t make sense
Fabian
I guess it can keep the pack in “compact” size.
Ron
The simple answer is that 5.0-Ah 21700 cells can’t handle the same current draws that lower capacity 18650 or 21700 cells can.
The 9 Ah and 12 Ah use fifteen 3.0-Ah and 4.0-Ah cells, respectively, which are rated for 35 amps continuous discharge each. So they can theoretically discharge 525 amps at 18V, or 9,450 watts of power.
To get 15 Ah in the same 5s3p configuration would require using 5.0-Ah 21700 cells, which are only rated for about 9.8 amps. So you’re looking at max continuous discharge of only 147 amps for the pack at 18V, or about 2,650 watts of power. On high-draw tools, you’ll get overheating, thermal shutdowns and reduced battery life.
On the other hand, using thirty 2.5-Ah 18650 cells, which are rated for about 20 amps each, in a 5s6p configuration, still gets you your 15 Ah of capacity, but at a max discharge rating of 600 amps for the pack at 18V. That’s 10,800 watts! You’ll also get much better cooling and less voltage drop with twice as many cells as they share the load.
The battery was going to be huge anyway….
Luke
Does this fit the DCL074?
Stuart
The battery has not yet launched and so far there is no official list of compatible tools. Given the DCL074’s design, I’m not very optimistic.
https://toolguyd.com/dewalt-dcl074-cordless-worklight-bluetooth/
Big Richard
Going to be kitted with the new DCCS677 20″ chainsaw, and DeWalt claims they are really amping up OPE stuff, so I think we will see this 15Ah battery in a quite a few new applications in the next couple years.
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/us/dewalt-usa/pressreleases/dewalt-r-introduces-several-new-outdoor-battery-powered-products-at-gie-plus-expo-demonstrating-its-continued-innovation-in-electrification-3137790
Franco Calcagni
I wonder if 2 of these batteries, either as 120v power or as 60v but 30 ah longevity, would be sufficient to make a really good back pack blower? I believe there aren’t many BP options on the cordless market because of power and longevity, too hard to achieve for power sucking BP blowers. (for any comedians stating that gas is cordless, we have heard that joke many times)
MM
If we followed the normal Flexvolt nomenclature the 30ah capacity would be measured at the “20V max” rating.
So, 2 batteries x 18 volts x 30 ah = 1080 watt-hours.
A Stihl BR600, which is in the upper-middle of Stihl’s range of backpack blowers, is rated at 3.8 horsepower or about 2800 watts. So if this hypothetical electric blower were the same power as the BR600, one battery would last roughly:
1080 / 2800 = .39 hours = about 23 minutes
Big Richard
The batteries are 15Ah at 18v, not 30Ah.
2 batteries x 18 volts x 15 Ah = 540Wh
MM
I’m well aware; read the first sentance of Franco Calcagni’s post again. He’s specifically asking about a 30 ah battery.
Big Richard
Oh I did. Even read it aloud. They asked about using two of them totaling 30Ah total.
“I wonder if 2 of these batteries….but 30 ah longevity”
Franco Calcagni
Yes, depending on how the engineers design it, it is either double the ah or double the voltage; either way the watts or watt hours remain the same. In the end it would depend if they can get enough juice out of a 54v motor (which I suspect should be enough), then the 2nd battery is for longevity. If they need more volts for a stronger motor, then they would go 108v.
BTW a Stihl BR600 was for many years the top gun, used mainly by contractors and the odd homeowner. They just recently (last 5-10 years?) added the 800.
My point here is that a BR600 is among the most powerful (Considering other brands like Husq, Kawa and others). Most homeowners and some pros could easily get by with a BR350 or even slightly less powered.
You have to start somewhere and this could be a viable solution for many.
Big Richard
Whether they run them as 2x series or 2x parallel, 2 of these bad boys would still be 540Wh total. That’s a decent amount of juice and should provide respectable runtime in BP blower.
DeWalt’s now discontinued 40v DCBL590 BP blower had two battery slots, and using two 7.5Ah batteries (also 540Wh) gave just under 40 mins of continuous full throttle power. Considering brushless tech continues to improve, I would think DeWalt could do 2x system with these batteries and get close to an hour of continuous runtime. Just a guess.