By now, you have undoubtedly been made aware of the new Dewalt PowerStack battery, a 20V Max battery pack that’s engineered with lithium polymer pouch-style battery cells.
Dewalt has only released one PowerStack battery size so far – 1.7Ah – and it’s often described as delivering the power level of a traditionally-styled 5Ah battery.
It’s smaller than a 2Ah battery pack, and lighter too, but capable of higher power delivery.
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Do I need one? No. Does anyone?
The batteries are pricey right now, with respect to the cost per amp hour of charge capacity.
The PowerStack battery does not deliver longer runtime than existing Dewalt 20V Max batteries. It also doesn’t provide next-level performance in power-hungry tools, at least compared to using any current Dewalt 20V Max battery 3Ah and up.
Few users will need this. That’s part of what makes this so interesting of a product launch, at least to me.
The battery does deliver substantial user experience benefits, however. It delivers mid-level power – by today’s standards – and in a package that is smaller and lighter than the next most-compact lighter duty batteries.
I have one on the way, as I purchased a Dewalt brushless jig saw bundle last month. (The retailer is still waiting on a delivery of PowerStack starter kits, and I’m told it should be arriving soon.)
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I have not fully decided yet, but I might be buying another one or two, with another tool bundle promo.
The PowerStack battery is nice. I have one in-hand already – a media sample, thanks to Dewalt – and while it doesn’t deliver a mind-blowing experience, it’s quite nice.
If you’re working on something and expect to fully drain a 5Ah battery in a short time, this isn’t the best battery for the task. But if you’re using light or medium duty tools on different kinds of brief tasks, especially at-reach or overhead, you might appreciate the size and weight savings, and that there’s no compromise in power.
Oh, and it’s also said to deliver 2X the lifetime compared to the 20V Max 2Ah battery.
It’s a quality of life type of product that boosts the user experience in some way, at least if and when task-appropriate.
Judging from the state of the PowerStack promotional displays at my local home centers, where the batteries and starter kits have been cleared out, I’m guessing that a lot of others found the bundle offers as compelling as I do.
It feels strange for me to say this, but I would absolutely NOT buy a PowerStack battery at retail pricing right now, as – for me – the cost is too high compared to the benefits.
But, didn’t I just buy one? Technically, I bought a bare tool and am getting the battery for free as part of a promo starter kit. There’s also an offer where you buy a 2-pack and get a free bare tool. Some of the bare tools are the same price as the 2-pack, and so it’s almost like you’re getting half off the batteries and half off the tool.
Would I have purchased the jig saw right now if it were bundled with a different battery? No. There were plenty of great holiday season promos, but none of them drove me to a purchasing decision the way the PowerStack battery has.
Dewalt has been incredibly aggressive with their PowerStack battery launch, quickly introducing new kits, combo kits, and bare tool promotions. The waves from this, in my opinion, are going to impact the entire cordless power tool industry.
When I first learned of the Dewalt PowerStack battery, I thought it was an interesting product, although perhaps not a must-have upgrade. I still don’t think it’s a must-have. But if it’s bundled with brushless power tools for free (as with widely available promos right now), or included for a small premium, sign me up.
There are users who would definitely benefit from using the PowerStack battery. And, there will also be applications for which this battery would not be a good fit. (Maybe the next PowerStack battery launch might change that!)
I’m in the larger group of users in the middle, who could benefit from the size and space savings, but not enough to justify the cost.
Dewalt’s current promos are putting a lot of these batteries into our hands, and I have to say – I want more.
If I’m buying a more compact Dewalt cordless power tool, such as an Atomic series or brushless tool, I want more of these batteries. Maybe soon there will be a higher capacity battery that’s bundled with Dewalt’s heavier duty tools.
I have been covering the cordless power tool industry for well more than 10 years. First came Li-ion battery tech. Brands then raced to launch 5-cell and 10-cell batteries with higher charge capacities. Major brands launched higher capacity 15-cell batteries to power heavier duty tools. Then came the “high output” batteries.
Brushless motors, higher charge capacity batteries, larger batteries, and higher output battery tech all opened new doors. Dewalt’s PowerStack battery does not open new doors, at least not yet.
Dewalt says that “the power revolution is here.” I think that this still remains to be seen.
How might you end this statement: “You should buy this if…”? I would say: If smaller battery size and lighter weight is extremely important to you, and longer runtime and cost per charge capacity extremely unimportant.
It’s a luxury right now, and that’s okay.
This happens a lot in many other industries, especially consumer electronics, where new releases often serve user wants more than their needs, but it seems unusual for the cordless power tool industry. The PowerStack battery launch has been unlike any other.
I am very much impressed with how Dewalt pulled all this off, and I have the feeling that they’re not done yet. I would be very curious to know how many PowerStack batteries are now in Dewalt 20V Max users’ hands. While we might not be privy to such information, I would guarantee that it’s a far greater number than I would have anticipated when I first learned of the battery’s retail price points.
This is going to be an interesting year.
Jared
Interesting take. I was hoping this new tech was heralding some new development – but I admit I couldn’t really imagine what it would be.
Jason
I agree with all your statements here. Good article. I too acquired one with a bare tool purchase and while not life changing, it’s nice to have. I look at longevity with my batteries as I am no longer using them daily. Might slowly get more to replace older, and beat up ones. But not in a rush.
Jeff
I like my 12v Xtreme for the compact tools. They are supposed to be coming out with a 20v 5ah in the fall. That will be interesting. Flexvolt is where the need really lies. They are heavy!
The chad
I did the Lowes promotion with the 2 batteries and the free tool (got the SDS hammer drill).
I have used the batteries some and it was just nice to have more batteries, but like said above it’s hardly noticeable use wise. They just are a bit more compact.
I always enjoy this website and the articles about the tools. Keep it up!
TimL
Same kit for me. I like them, but nothing substantially different for my infrequent use.
Johnny
I bought bunch of tools with the bundle both single with charger and the dual pack. Sold the tools I don’t use. These battery at least for me is what I need it small and compact but I don’t need to be on the tools all the time.
They need to make these in 5ah or 6ah physical size!
TimL
I think larger ones are due in late 2022. Saw a leak video on YT.
Steveo
I bought the atomic one handed sawzall, it was already $150 bare tool so I found one that had the new power stack. I was bummed it was a 1.7, I mean yeah it’s smaller and more compact but it’s also weaker tbh.
Common sense tells ya the 1.7 is going to be smaller. I don’t know why anyone would use less than a 4.0 on this saw, unless you have less than 2 maybe 3 minutes of cutting
Plain grainy
I purchase mostly all Flexvolt 6.0 AH batteries. I had always tried to accumulate them in kits. These batteries are 6.0 in 20 volt mode. But in 60 vplt mode I think they are actually 2.0 AH. They actually run my Flexvolt tools too long for me. I’ll be waiting for the battery to run down so I can take a little break. But they seem to work me a little longer than I’d like. The 60 volt stud/ joist drill w/ e- clutch really eats the 60 volts when using real large auger bits though( in hardwoods).
Plain grainy
I should add than in light duty work, there’s not much power advantage from a bigger battery. The number of cells in a larger battery have to work much less than batteries with less cells. When the workload increases, the need for bigger batteries comes into play. That’s my take on it anyway.
SaturnFire
I jumped on the LOWE’s deal for a free bare tool (I got the jigsaw, needed one) The Batteries made it a bonus. I used the powerstack in an older SDS hammer drill like others have said, it worked but nothing earth-shattering, Maybe got about the same as I would have with the factory 3 aH battery the SDS came with. You definitely can feel the weight savings.
N. Berg
So does the huge discounts on PowerStack bundles indicate that the profit margins on tools and/or batteries are pretty massive or is DeWalt taking a loss on some of these deals in the hope that the “free” first hit gets customers hooked on the benefits of PowerStack batteries?
Stuart
I think the goal is to foster widespread early adoption, and to weaken or circumvent the hesitation due to higher retail pricing.
That there are promos at Home Depot, Lowe’s and nearly every independent retailer I track (except maybe Amazon) indicates a massive marketing effort.
Maybe it’s a way to validate the technology, or maybe it’s to build brand awareness ahead of additional PowerStack batteries with higher charge capacities and power output.
Sunny leveson jones
The profit margins on these have to be pretty sweet, the research and development was no joke but the patents and the competitive advantage is pretty large and the unit costs are probably a wash with a normal battery
rob
If you can buy it at Home Depot or Menards, the batteries and chargers are priced artificially high so that the brands can rotate free battery promotions to make it look like you’re getting an insane “deal”.
What sucks is the companies that don’t play that game started raising the prices of their batteries to match….
Otherwise, never under estimate the economy of scale.
Kevin
The profit margins on the batteries is always tremendous. The model is the get you into the the tools’ (which have a much lower margin) battery platform so you need said batteries. Lithium batteries are very cheap to make especially when you deal with the manufacturers directly, which they do. The costs are fluctuate with the material costs but regardless, the margin is absolutely huge on batteries.
Sam
Yes, and also professional users are going to buy multiple batteries per tool, they’re going to get lost, damaged and naturally wear out. A DIY user may use the kit battery for the tool’s life.
Therefore you get market segmentation: home user gets a tool for cheap, trade user pays way more over the lifetime of the same tool. The more you use the tool, the more profit you generate.
Robert
Generally, it’s not cost effective to be an early adopter. Unless your career benefits from advising others in new tech. There will be better deals next feeding frenzy season (black Friday, Christmas, perhaps upcoming Father’s Day), especially if competitors introduce pouch style batteries.
Stuart
The promotions they’re running now are very good, and there’s no guarantee there will be better PowerStack promos for the next holiday seasons.
What do you think will sell better next Black Friday/holiday season?
A) Buy 20V Max starter kit w/ compact 4Ah and 6Ah batteries and charger + free tool for $199, or
B) Bare tool + PowerStack battery and charger for $199
There’s no way that a 1-battery PowerStack starter kit and tool bundle will compete against Milwaukee and Makita offerings at Home Depot. Even a 2-battery kit won’t fare well competitively.
Milwaukee had a 2x 5Ah starter kit + free tool for $199 at Home Depot, and Makita had a 2x 4Ah starter kit + free tool for $179 promo.
Some of the tools featured in the current promo are unlikely to appear in Father’s Day or Black Friday bundles.
I generally agree that it’s not cost-effective to be an early adopter, but Dewalt is going all-out with their introductory PowerStack promos right now, and even after just wrapping up a couple of months of holiday promos.
JoeM
Luxury Item or otherwise, I’ll believe it to be whatever you choose to call it. Until more in the line are produced, it’s extraordinarily difficult to judge what the goal and point of this exact line would be.
I believe in all the technology involved, but, where are they taking it, and why? Is this going to be the way of all their batteries from now on? Just different numbers of folds and sizes of battery packets? Are they revamping one particular line, all of them, or creating a new lineup of batteries for a particular purpose? One way or another, we have all of one singular battery to judge the technology. But, that’s a battery. Just one battery, at that. Until they make more use of it, expand the line as a whole? I’m not firmly positive of anything for the new batteries. If people have theories, I’m up for believing them, because I have no evidence to the contrary.
But I would definitely agree they’re a luxury item right now. Cash is tight, I have no particular need of this experimental battery right now, but should I need a fresh battery in a pinch? If someone said “Here, have this one!” and it was one of the new PowerStack Batteries? I’m not saying No.
Jeff
So I bought 3 at retail prices and was happy with my decision until I read this, hah… It’s true the actual use cases to make this cost benefit worthwhile are small, but it makes a big difference when you’re utilizing all the benefits of them.
Also if the Dewalt leaks are true a 5Ah powerstack will be available Q4 2020. The size and power of the current 1.7Ah sold me but don’t think I’ll be buying the 5Ah as you lose the “smallest profile” benefit.
Stuart
If in your shoes, I’d check the return policy. I believe that home centers offer 90 day returns. Independent channels might be willing to accommodate you if you make specific requests.
And if not, you can still be happy with your purchases. I’m still waiting for my battery, while you have yours available for use already.
Yes
Power stack has the potential to rival or kill the M12 platform, which is, technologically, a dead end. The M12 platform is stuck with old 18650 cell tech. The handle of most M12 tools is literally molded around 3 18650 cells. 18650s have hit the end of the road, maxing out at 3Ah cells for power tool applications, and 20-25amp continuous discharge rates. In other words, M12 tools have a power ceiling of about 12 volts*25amps*2 sets of cells in series=600 watts.
This Power stack battery is said to deliver equivalent power to a standard 18650 18/20 volt 5.0Ah battery, which has a power ceiling of 18*25*2=900 watts.
If DeWalt plays its cards right with this Power stack form factor, DeWalt could crush M12 with a line of tools featuring miniature batteries and greater performance potential than M12.
Nevertheless, I think it’s clear that M12 will live another day, as M12, while thoroughly chained and anchored to legacy technology, has numerous trade specific tools and many tools which are not really power limited.
Stuart
(If you’re going to compare wattage or watt-hours, it’s best to be consistent. 12V Max is 10.8V nominal, and 18V is 20V Max on paper. Li-ion cells have a nominal voltage of 3.6V and 4.0V Max on paper.)
Milwaukee M12 is still going very strong. The “older tech” powering the tools is still paralleled in 18V-class tools and others.
12V-class tools are often smaller and lighter than 18V equivalents, but they are also usually less expensive as well.
Has Milwaukee reached a power and runtime ceiling with their M12 lineup? Yes. They might have a backup plan, but the fact is that the ceiling doesn’t post any significant limitations.
Makita reached a power/performance/runtime ceiling with their 18V platform. That posed a big problem, as competing brands were all soaring to new heights. So, Makita launched a brand new 18V-form factor platform with 36V/40V Max configurations and motors.
Breaking through tech and power limits is important for 18V-class and higher voltage system tools, but less so for 12V-class.
Yes
The power ceiling of M12 might not pose any significant limits to any of the existing M12 tools now.
However, the power ceiling will pose a limit if DeWalt and other companies play their cards right.
The 1.7 Ah Powerstack delivers 800-900 watts with only 5 cells. This means the cells are capable of outputting somewhere around 40 amps, or twice that of traditional 18650 cells.
A DeWalt 12V Powerstack battery, with 3 of the pouch batteries, would be capable of 10.8*40 nominal or 12*40 max watts. That’s 432-480 watts, with just 3 pouch batteries.
A DeWalt 12V Powerstack battery with 6 pouch batteries would be capable of 800-900 watts. In other words, more power than M12. And as DeWalt has shown with its 5 pouch 20V Max Powerstack battery, it’s really compact. Basically 12V class compact.
This extra power would obviously be beneficial to certain, but not all, 12-volt tools. Some of these tools that could benefit from the extra power would be:
SDS rotary hammer
Vacuums…the M12 vacuums are pretty underpowered, especially the handheld one. The briefcase one is slightly better, but not great from what I can gather.
OPE — could open the gates to similar tools as the M12 pruning chainsaw — small, compact, lightweight, but useful
Stuart
A 12V-class PowerStack battery seems highly unlikely at this time.
Look at the size comparison. https://toolguyd.com/dewalt-powerstack-battery-size-comparison/
A 1.7Ah 12V Max battery would have the same footprint as the 20V Max, but be a little shorter in height.
A battery that is larger, lower in charge capacity, and pricier is going to be a tough sell.
MM
I think the article is pretty much spot-on.
I needed a couple more smaller batteries and I figured why not go with the Powerstacks instead of normal 2.0s. At normal pricing of $200 for a 2-pack I’d never have gone for it, but with some of the deals they’re offering now that was a whole different question. I picked up the deal from Lowes with the 1/4-sheet sander–which I needed anyway–so with that mind I didn’t think the price was bad.
I like the powerstack batt. Yes, it doesn’t have the runtime of a bigger battery but it does deliver a lot of power and it’s very compact. Another thing I like is the rubberized lip around the base of the battery, it feels very good in the hand when you take it on and off the tool/charger. They also seem to charge extremely fast, though I admit this is subjective and I have not timed it.
I think things will only get better as they come out with larger size packs down the road. I’m also interested in another pack or two in the 1.7ah size but there aren’t any of the other deals right now that I could really use. Hopefully when the DCS438B finally hits the market they’ll offer that in a bundle.
Ben
Wait till the 5ah, 8ah etc get out on the field through real world use , you’ll change your mind , I think you voiced your opinion a little early.
Lyle
I really like the size and weight of these new batteries. I normally use the 2.0Ah batteries on my drills, impact drivers, cable stapler, etc. I even sold one of the 3.0Ah with the more powerful 21700 cells because I didn’t like the size.
I took advantage of a bunch of the deals and I should have 7 of these when the dust settles and a few extra drills and impact drivers to sell. Then I’ll also sell all 4 of my 2.0Ah batteries and I’ll have lighter and hopefully longer lasting (age not capacity) batteries. I have been impressed with my 2.0Ah batteries. I have one from 2013 that is still going strong and it’s on my most used impact driver.
John E
2x the lifetime of the 2ah battery? That already halves it’s cost. What’s not to like?
MM
That’s assuming the user actually wears out a battery.
Speaking for myself, I’ve never worn out a cordless tool battery, though I have lost two to mechanical damage (being dropped one too many times).
I suspect more batteries are lost, stolen, or mechanically broken compared to those which actually are used up beyond their lifetime. But of course if someone is wearing the batteries out then 2x the lifetime is indeed a big cost savings.
Nathan
I already have 2 – 2ah compacts the yellow ones. and I like them for some use. I ahve 2 of the older 1.5/7 black bats too and they get used. In fact for alot of projects I might even use those first as I figure they will die some day (not take charge)
but I also have 3Ah and 5ah too which are for hard use. like circular saw.
I like the idea of the powerstack and right now I do see it a bit of a luxury – is it lighter than my 2AH sure – do I need one no. if I get it for free in a promotion hell yes. I figured we are all beta testers for the first version. And I’m OK with that.
when this kicks out to the 5-6ah model and it’s half the weight or 67% of the weight of the other – with all the run time and draw demand. That’s when it’s going to shine for every use.
Nyall
I just bought this kit to get two powerstack batteries. I sold the bag, drill, and charger for $75. I think this is the cheapest way to get a couple powerstack batteries right now:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-20-Volt-MAX-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-Combo-Kit-2-Tool-with-Two-1-7-Ahr-Batteries-Charger-and-Bag-DCK254E2/318434498
Gordon
A battery and charger can be had for $75. Sell the charger for $20. $55 for a battery is pretty good.
Nyall
If I sold the dcf850 impact for another $100, then I’m at $67 for two powerstack batteries.
($229*1.06tax) – $175 = 67
But I want the dcf850. (I might sell an older dcf887.)
Big Richard
Unless you need the most compact impact, wait for the DCF845 this coming fall.
Mike
I bought a SDS Powerstak starter kit, I know the little battery won’t run the tool much, but I can use it on other less demanding tools. Really waiting to see if the battery goes ‘PUFF DADDY’ in a couple years like all pouch batteries do……
Jeremiah McKenna
Who else makes pouch batteries like these?
Big Richard
Flex 24v, they have a 3.5Ah, 6Ah, and 10Ah. One thing they do that is kinda cool, is they put the continuous Watt rating right on the battery. their 10Ah is rated at 2520W continuous, which is bonkers considering it is similar in size to 18v 10 cell 21700 pack.
Stihl also has a new 9.4Ah AP 500 S battery that uses pouch cells
Yes
Do you have a source for the continuous 2520 watt rating?
Big Richard
It’s right on the side of the battery, so the source would be the mfg., FLEX/Chervon.
The 3.5Ah is 1200W and the 6Ah is 1920W, for reference.
Yes
3.5 — 1200 W continuous
6.0 –1920 W continuous
10.0 — 2520 W continuous
Well, that pretty much kills Milwaukee. Not sure how Flex rates “continuous,” as in how many seconds/minutes those outputs are sustained, but those numbers are still impressive.
The M18 line with the 12.0 maxes out at about 2000 watts. 18 volts * 35 amps max * 3 rows of cells = 1890. Assume 40 amps max continuous and it’s 2160 watts. Those are 4.0 21700’s, however, which are not as good as the 3.0 21700’s at continuous discharge.
And the 12.0 is known to have thermal issues, due to Milwaukee’s complete lack of innovation and imagination when designing their high output packs. No special plastics used to help conduct heat away from the cells and help dissipate heat via convection to the surrounding air. No phase change materials to absorb heat temporarily and help sustain performance. Just a bunch of cells stuffed into a plastic box.
Big Richard
My guess is that the “continuous” rating FLEX uses is based on the cell’s continuous discharge rating, from the cell manufacturer. Just like the Samsung 40T cells that Milwaukee uses in their 12.0Ah HO battery are rated at 35A continuous, as you used in your calculations.
Jeremiah McKenna
As always, there’s a proper tool to do the job properly. While I’m a Big Red guy myself, I always admire a company when they develop and release a quality, upgraded tool. Things like this harbor competition. Some brands simply add another battery to a tool, instead of investing in battery technology.
But I see the issue here, you’re expecting a smaller battery to be as powerful as one several times it’s size, even one larger than the manufacturer is suggesting it is. However, as a business owner that buys a lot of batteries, I can definitely see the slight price increase as a bonus. Reason? If I don’t have to buy new batteries as often, because the newer ones are lasting longer, then I can spend more money on new or upgraded tools I need, a lot sooner.
As far as DeWalt rolling these out with bare tools for free, this is like the razor companies sending the free shaving kits when we turn 18 and signing up for Selective Service. They get us hooked so we buy more blades.
Also, I saw a YouTube video, I believe VCG, talking about larger Amp hour batteries being released in a few months.
Justin
The writer forgot maybe the most important part of these batteries combined with the atomic 2 part impact drill combo is the weight savings.
The drill has hammer abilities, it’s tiny compared to about any other hammer drill, and the impact driver is comically small. I drill lots of holes into tile, many of them over head in a glass shower I just built where a ladder is impractical so the weight savings of this combo is great.
I can also stuff more garbage into my tool bag now because of the tools smaller size. Havnt had a power issue with either tool yet using the new cells but I am hoping they drop a 10 and 15 maybe even a 20 cell pack.
David
The great shortage of cylindrical li-ion battery worldwide explains all
Kingsley
They are great and I love their size. 1.7ah is too little runtime. When the 5ah powerstack comes out in December I will get one. Mainly for using with my laptop via the DCB094.
Joe
Looks like Dewalt straight up copied Porter Cable. PC had these battery packs out years ago.
Stuart
First, Porter Cable did NOT have any batteries like this before. Second, Stanley Black & Decker owns both Dewalt and Porter Cable brands.
Jerry
Since the ploymer batteries are not subject to reduced life from heat (charging or laying in the sun) it’s a good deal. But dewalt needs to work on their plastic which is too fragile for professional use.
Like to know what the bottom end temperature tolerance is as I work several times a month in -10F environment.
Chipper Keith
Wish I had one for my trim router from Oxford England
John Flores
The only real use these 1.7 ah batteries have is in a impact drill. Other than that they die out too quickly.
Thom
I have a hard time getting excited about a 1.7 AH battery
Matt F
Any word on a 20V versions of the 5 in 1 driver? These packs would make that more reasonable. I don’t have any Dewalt 12v and the 5 in 1 alone isn’t enough to get me there at the moment.
Now if they released a compact quiet impact in 12V, I would go there in a second.
Stuart
Not even a rumor.
Yes
Why do we keep referring these pouch cells as “lithium polymer” when it says lithium ion literally on the battery pack itself? It’s not polymer. It’s Li-ion.
Stuart
Semantics, similar to 18V vs “20V Max.”
For clarity and consistency, I consider Lithium pouch-style battery cells of unstandardized size to be Lithium Polymer. Hard-cased cylindrical cells are Li-ion.
Rendered Insane
They are scamming us!
Andy
They do exactly what they say they will do. If you are trying to use them in a circular saw or other tools that need more power, there was never a claim that they were made for.
Bad value?? Get a free tool for buying one. Please sign me up for more bad values.