Shown here is the new Harbor Freight Hercules Professional 12″ double-bevel sliding miter saw.
Harbor Freight is touting their new saw as being professional-grade, with emphasis on competitive accuracy, capacity, and durability, but at lower pricing.
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The Hercules miter saw is $399, or $390 with coupon, and it comes with a Hercules 60-tooth blade, which they boast as being a $45 blade included for free.
The new Harbor Freight Hercules HE74 miter saw looks to have been heavily inspired by the Dewalt DWS780 sliding miter saw. The DWS780 is currently $599 at Amazon.
Features and Specs
- 12″ blade size
- 14″ cut capacity at 90°
- 7-1/2″ nested crown molding capacity
- 6-3/4″ base board vertical capacity
- LED-shadow blade guide system
- 15A motor
- 4100 RPM
- Miters 60° right and 50° left
- 49° bevel angle, left and right
- Weighs 56 lbs
Price: $390 after coupon
Buy Now(via Harbor Freight)
Compare(Dewalt via Amazon)
Compare(Dewalt via Acme Tools)
Promo Video:
First Thoughts
I was seriously hesitant about Harbor Freight’s new Hercules lineup. When they first came out, the new Harbor Freight Hercules drills and impact driver looked to be heavily inspired by Dewalt’s models, down to the shape of the handles.
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I spoke with a VP at Harbor Freight, and it made me quite excited about the Hercules lineup, and what we might see.
With this Hercules 12″ sliding miter saw, Harbor Freight is aiming to offer a pro-grade model that compares with popular industry leaders, but at a substantially lower price.
I bought a Harbor Freight drill and impact driver, but have been dragging my feet with the reviews and comparisons. Yes, it seems like they’re making a strong and genuine effort at offering pro-grade tools at lower prices.
But there are minor touches that suggest they’re still learning how to fine-tune a better product.
If I were in the market for a 12″ sliding miter saw, would I buy this one? I don’t think so. Even if they did pull out all the stops and seek to make this an accurate, capable, and durable model, its price is a little too high to take a risk on. I wouldn’t want to be an early adopter.
Plus, certain times of the year, the Dewalt DWS780 is bundled with a free miter saw stand, increasing the value you get for its $599 price.
That all said, I am completely convinced that Harbor Freight is aiming for this to be a pro-grade saw. I think that it is their full attention for it to be compared head to head with Dewalt’s leading saw, and that they designed it to be competitive.
My hesitation comes from the fact that established pro-grade tool brands sometimes have problems with tools right out of the gate. With Harbor Freight and their Hercules brand being quite new, there are perhaps greater chances for problems.
My advice would be to wait a few months, until some user reviews start hitting the product page or YouTube.
If it can offer as much as it claims to, then this might be a good buy.
Imagine if this same tool was just announced by Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Ridgid, or another such long-established sliding miter saw brand. Would we view it with the same hesitation as we do now because it bears Harbor Freight Hercules branding? Probably not.
I find myself feeling optimistic, but hesitant.
$390 for Harbor Freight Hercules, $500 for a Ridgid 12″ slider, or $599 for the Dewalt – which would you go for?
Joshua
As a general rule I do not buy Harbor Freight tools that have any RPM spec.. My safety can’t be worth that little
Greg
I’m with you, generally speaking I extend that to anything they make that requires electricity too.
Jason
I agree with Greg. I have had OK success with some of their hand tools (and they don’t break the bank), but I’ve had pretty poor luck and a lot of reservations with their power tools.
svtrader
This is a rebranded Bosch.
DJA
Chinese manufacturers have a long history of remaking (copying?) products made by other brands. Many of “their” engine designs are remarkably similar to old Honda designs. But there’s more to a product than the sum of its parts. Tolerances, build quality, and material quality are a few areas that justify a higher cost from an established maker. These are also areas where Chinese manufacturers often cut corners to offer a lower price. You pays your money, you takes your chances.
Mike
no, it’s not. It is a Dewalt
Stuart
That would be extremely highly doubtful.
Raoul
Hercules! Hercules! Hercules!
I just can’t own any of it. It’s so wanna be stuff.
DJA
Add me to this group. I do not buy HF power anything. Not judging those who do, but no thanks.
Kyle
I’ve had great success with harbor freight tools.
Robert Demasters
This is in response to DJA’s comment stating it’s a Chinese manufacture. It’s actually made in France by the Guilletmot Corp. S.A. and I got a great deal on the saw and stand and only paid $288 for both! I am amazed at the quality and construction and I’m extremely happy with my purchase! This Hercules miter saw is a beast and makes precision cuts plus, I saved a lot of money!
John S
My simple rule is I don’t buy anything from HF that can kill me 😉
Deni
I had one of their sliding compound miter saws. it came apart on me and almost cut my fingers off. I told a friend and he said not only did his do the same exact thing but so did his friends! I dont think saving a little bit of money now is worth the loss of limb for the rest of my life! when I went to my local HF and talked with the manager, I was told that I was only person who had ever experienced this, as far as he knew. I m quite sure that if 3 instances in one tiny neighborhood, there have been many many more as well. Beware….Be careful!!
Jsmyh
If that were true you’d have law suits left and right on harbor freight…just say you don’t like their power tools and move on and stop with the fish stories
John
I’ve been using an $89, 10”, Chicago electric for 8 years….no issues. Nope it’s not perfect ALL of the time, but once u know how to tweak it, it’s great. Never had a safety issue, of course if I notice a bolt loose or a nit missing, I’d fix it instead of using it and then wondering how it came apart.
luc
Always use harbor freight saws. No problem ever. Maybe the old one were not as precise or heavy duty as DW but for the price, and non professional, never had any problem. No Wen is another issue! BAD experience with that.
Curtis
I’ve got a bunch of tools that I regard as expendable and many of them came from Harbor Freight. When I start a project I’ll often bring them along and leave them on the job site. My old Harbor Freight sliding miter saw is plenty adequate for 90% of the cuts I need to make, as is the old Rockwell table saw I got for free a few years ago. It’s really nice to have them on hand and if they get stolen, well it’s no big deal.
Randall S Weakley
Where do you live and what part of the house do you keep them in?
Ron
I am in harbor freight at this moment looking at the 12″ double bevel sliding compound miter saw . The build quality looks to be excellent from what I can tell and having spent 22 years in mechanical engineering I can tell that this saw is far more superior to the previous one. I believe it is only fair that this saw be given a chance to prove itself before we trash it. Finally, I checked one of the un-opened boxes and noticed that this saw is MADE IN TIAWAN, not mainland China!! That said, this changes everything as Tiawan made stuff is far more superior USUALLY than mainland China.
Lucky
Hi Pro-mate,
As a Mechanical Engineer, I’m disappointed to read all the trashy reviews by these people who haven’t even used this saw before. I reviewed the Hercules saw online and I was very impressed by the specs. So I walked into an HFT store just to feel the tightness and check out the quality of the build. Wow! What an exceptional build quality? I told myself that I must go try this machine at my current project, so I bought one. But I must say that it is quite a Dewslt DWS780 clone. And that fact, even makes it more appealing to me. At this moment, I can say this is a solidly built, well-oiled machine. And it comes with a one year FULL REFUND warranty. Which no other manufacturer does. The big competitors only come with a 90days full refund warranty.
Hey guys, I plan to update my review in about 2months time- (February 2019).
Tony
Agree
Mike
A friend of mine repairs tools. He says that the HF lathe is part for part the same as one of the name brands.
MSke390
I’ve owned the lower end 12″ HF miter since 2014 and guess what everyone I’m still alive, have all my fingers and havent had any trips to emergency room. Used for countless tasks including cutting PT 4×4.
Charles Bainbridge
I bought the 12″ Chicago sliding miter saw , 3 Barns, later & plenty of abuse , dropping, ect , I still use it , & unbelievable with the same blade , so after 19 years later I bought the big boy Hercules double bevel, So u know ill have one uear to see how it holds up , Anything like the Chicago one , Ill be more than happy , I paid 300.00 , everything including 1 year warranty,
Steve
Can’t see any pro builder buying this ever. What are the chances plastic is glassed, aluminum is any good and control surfaces don’t break off after a year. Never mind the fact you’d be laughed off any job you were at with this. At $300 you might trick a homeowner into it but not a pro that makes a living off tools. If you want a saw that’s cheap buy the big box brand of your choice as it will have a better warranty.
Duane
A tool doesn’t make a man a man makes the tool .when one is so narrow minded to complain before using a product.we started buying from harbor freight three years ago the new line ups are as good as or better than the name brand their battling .what I like about buy from harbor f is iam buy from a self made man who still Owens his company and helps lots of people by saving them money.
Greg
Who is Owens?
Mike
I am old enough, I can say, “I can’t see a pro builder buying tools from Home Depot or Lowes”. Their tools are second tier from the manufacturers.
Steve
While I tend to buy as much as possible for independents yards and specialty tool stores I’m certainly going to just about anywhere before buy something with movIng parts from harbor f. It’s barely passable for a home owner.
Travis Honaker
You obviously didn’t even read the article, much less the warranty.
robert John willeford
spoken like a true tool snob, I’m a pro woodworker and just ordered both the saw and stand, for the savings it’s worth the try if it does not work out I will take it back with in a year for a full refund.
Travis Honaker
I own it. Built my kitchen cabinets with it. I have no complaints.
Shawn
The brand of the tool has nothing to do with determining if your a pro or not. Some of the best homes were built with some of the cheapest tools, and were done professionally. It’s nice to have top rated tools, but not necessary.
Davida1
Two points
1 I wonder why they didn’t compare it outright to the DeWalt, like they did with the rest of the line up, did they get a cease and desist?.
2 for this price (and it’s my problem w the whole Hercules line) I would get the special buy DeWalt saw, which is the same price.
Mike
the special buy Dewalt that is the same price does not have the blade shadow feature.
Tony
If you walk into HF, they feature a comparison chart of Hercules against DeWalt right there on the shelf.
Joe Smith
That price is no bargain. It better be as good as known brands.
The yeti
Looks good. Wish we had Harbor Freight in Canada
Jason
Careful what you wish for!
The yeti
Id buy a rolling chest in a heart beat. Got my 53 inch waterloo pretty well loaded. She could use a sister.
The yeti
What is it thats so bad about HF. Cant be worse than Princess Auto or Canadian Tire
Joe Smith
Harbor Freight is absolutely a step below those when it comes to crustiness. Even if a lot of the products they sell all come from the same Chinese factories.
Jonathan
Early Adopter aka “paying to beta test”.
I would have a hard time spending more than $199 for it . It would take a 5-7 year warranty no quibble guarantee to even consider it at say $229, for example at the HF price point you have options with for example RIGIDS life theme warranty. I will admit I’ve not shopped for a 12″ slider, but one if buy the 20V 10″ Milwaukee last summer.
I still place HF tools a notch below Ryobi or on par with Craftaman Evolve / Wally World / Big lots house brands.
Just seen too many HF products that seem to scream they come with an expiration date.
Have a hard time seeing this used in a Pro/Contractor daily basis.
I maybe wrong but I think most items only come with a 30 day warranty maybe 1 year for some items.
MSke390
Update this saw now cost $369 and has one year warranty where you dont like you return. What exactly do you think a warranty will do for you? You realize warranty is on manufacturers defects, electronics fail when you first use them if they do not two years later and they don’t cover defects related to use? Ive seen this in person build quality is on par with DeWalt, Makita etc. nothing lie Chicago brand.
robert John willeford
Just ordered this saw for $299 and picked up the matching stand, excited to get it a go and love I have a year no questions asked return policy
Travis Honaker
I love mine. Not a single complaint.
Jeff
This is a non- review. In effect it says “HF is venturing into quality territory and I have no idea if it is any good. Based on past performance, their stuff is suspect. I will wait and see” We all knew that before reading this “review”. This falls into the same category as reviewers that say I bought xxx but have not tried it yet. Why waste my time before you have any info.
skfarmer
i have not found the hercules to be a bargain. i am sure they are competent tools but things like having only one battery in a kit only make them look cheaper. when you complete the kit there is little or no price advantage.
the hf track record is just not good enough to warrant a premium or close to premium price for an unproven item. just buy the better brand and be done with it.
that said, hf appears real close to getting it right on power tools and if they do, they will take market share.
Robert
Just bought the Dewalt DWS779 for $349. Only thing lacking is the light kit which can easily be added for $60. Fantastic saw. The included 45 tooth blade will need to be replaced quickly though
Davida1
Where do you buy the light. And does it need major surgery to install
Robert
Not at all. Very easy to add.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo8JYlTldkg
Davida1
Thanks perhaps I’ll treat myself to an xps upgrade
Ray
It looks like it has the holes in the side for crown stops but are they threaded? I have not found any that state they fit the 779. Also how easy is it to bevel it looking from the back of the saw? The Kobalt 12 inch can swivel with a front of the saw adjustment. I am wondering if Kobalt will come out with an LED to replace the laser the mount looks like it might be able to be changed.
Carl Sampson
Looks like an exact copy of the Makita 12 in 15 amp saw (LS1216L) but with different knobs and shielding.
Kevin
I was just thinking that it looks very much like my Makita 10″ saw except for the knobs and shields. Since I have a good 10″ saw I would not buy this one. If I needed a new saw and if the quality of this Hercules seems decent I would consider it. The Makita slider works well so the design is not an issue.
Mike
Harbor Freight is really stepping up these days. Ten years ago they sold garbage and nothing but. Now a days though if you look closely they are starting to be a good value for your non professional. Those earthquake impact guns are giving snap-on air tools a serious run for their money on every review I’ve seen. I recently picked up a knockoff dremel tool and I tell you what that little thing has been perfect for what I needed and it was $15 instead of $50. I bought a couple extra carbide burrs and it’s been great. I’ve moved firmly into the don’t knock it until you try it corner of harbor freight.
Jef
I suspect HF should send a thank you card to Craftsman for allowing this to happen.
Mike
Craftsman turned into HF quality and moved closer to premium tool pricing over the last ten years.
Cletus
Not exactly. They more or less met in the middle.
Jim Felt
As a perpetual optimist I love to see someone like HF try to improve on their well deserved image.
Afterall who would have ever thought humble beginnings Volkswagen would be the world’s biggest auto maker in 2017? And own/make Bentley, Lambo and Bugatti.
So maybe someday HF will consistently innovate and produce pro grade products.
I’m not particularly confident.
Chris
I’m a little confused. You start out saying you’re a “perpetual optimist”, but then finish with “I’m not particularly confident”.
Which is it?
RCWARD
A 90 day guarantee says it all with this tool.
Tim
But it outlasts the competition with over 16,000 cuts!!!
MSke390
Why? If Electronics fail its when you first use them and warranty only covers manufacturers defects. How exactly does a three year benefit you? Lastly, saw is now $369 with 1 year warranty.
Lucky
That’s true. It’s even better now. I just got one for $299 – post black friday deal on 12/03/2018 with a full refund – one year warranty. And the new sale price just went up to $349.00.
Lucky
Today, the Hercules 12″ miter saw at HFT now has a FULL ONE YEAR -full refund WARRANTY. I just picked one for $299.00 this Dec. 2018.
dan
Many of these reviews say this saw has a one year warranty, but that warranty cost $49.99. I just bought one today at the $299 price with coupon.
Dave
Every magazine I pick up has a 20% off coupon for Harbor Freight. I doubt if I would buy this, but $320 looks better than $390.
Pete
Look closely as i dont care to but they have a lot of exclusions on the bottom of those coupons.
Brian K
Over the last year HF has been coming out with “branded” tools. Tbe coupons pretty much exclude all of then.
Lucky
That’s true. I could use the 20% coupon on my new Hercules miter saw
Andrew Q
Hercules branded stuff never applies for the 20% or 30% off any item coupons.
Mike
Their stuff isn’t that bad but also isn’t that cheap either it’s not like yoir getting it for 199
Diamond Dave
I agree with you Stuart regarding quality vs price point! It’s one thing to buy a tool for one time usage when it’s 1/3rd the price of a name brand but HFT is trying to fondirecting against the big boy with their new Hercules Lineup and the price difference is too close in my opinion to consider the Hercules such as the new lithium cordless. I also see most of their new lithium tools only come with (1) battery and as you mentioned many of the name brands can be purchased on sale for close to the Hercules price! I was recently looking for a corded portable band saw that would only get very occasional usage and although the HFT looks nice and can be had for almost 1/2 the name brand or more I took a look at videos and such regarding the HFT but in the end decided to pay more for a name brand reconditioned unit!
Joe
Earthquake is for diy, compare to Snap On ? For a few tests ok, maybe…for a week,month ? Maybe….for a year, No….everyone says just drive to the store and replace something if it breaks, 1…if they have another one at the store..2..the amount of time and money lost is staggering for a mechanic or builder by going to the store…
This saw ? No….but fools will buy it and claim how great it is. Not to mention continually adding to the gdp of the Chinese govt…….
MSke390
Joe please explain why this saw wont last? This is built in Taiwan not china and do you think DeWalt, Makita are not loaded with chinese parts?
MSke390
Forgot to mention I’ve owned the chicago brand cheaper 12″ miter saw since 2014….guess what still going strong just use it to build a 6′ x 8′ shed.
Lucky
I’m a Milwaukee and Ridgid guy. But I’m very happy with the Hercules miter saw. It’s great and all alignments are 100% set out of the box compared to Dewalt or others.
Moreover, all of these tools are made in China and rebadged in the US. Hercules is made on Taiwan which has wa at higher quality controls than China mainland
Grady
I’ll sometimes buy sandpaper at HF if I’m in the neighborhood or some other consumable product. I purchased a HF router some years ago and it quite literally “vibrated itself to death ” in only a few hours. Consumables are one thing, but power tools are NOT supposed to be consumable. At least not until say maybe 1000 hours or more.
Erik
When I initially saw the Harbor Freight Hercules miter saw I was a bit shocked at the price point knowing that people would question the quality, given the price point. However I was recently in my local Harbor Freight and they had this new saw on display and I have to be honest I was quite impressed. Obviously I would like to see some in-depth reviews and use tests for this saw, but given what I saw on display, I’m looking forward to seeing some reviews and whether or not this new saw stacks up.
Steve
The reason I would not buy it is in the warranty on this tool, they don’t stand behind it for more than 90 days, each competitor offers 3 years or more. HF offers a 2 year, but it’s another $90. With HF you are looking at a replacement but there is no guarantee they are going to offer the same thing or something comperable that far down the road either. Other manufacturers also offer parts, which you can get even after the warranty is over. HF doesn’t offer parts either. Sales on competing products happen frequently and sometimes bring them down lower than this in price. (Dewalt $349 this weekend at F&F) Its just not priced low enough in price to make up the warranty and support difference. When you are making a large investment in a single tool this is very important. If they upped the warranty to 3 years and had a parts program in place, they would be right in the game, but they aren’t there yet.
Spost
“It’s just not priced low enough in price to make up the warranty and support difference.”
I think that’s the key point if I were going to pay that much for a saw of unknown provenance. At their chosen price points, I would suggest HF should be initially offering their line of premium tools with a standard warranty that is at least as comprehensive as the better established competition.
Drew
As of Feb 2019, this saw is $349 and includes a one year, no questions asked, full refund return. What you, and all the other guys on this post, fail to say regarding the “better” warranties is that you must ship those tools back to the service center and then wait an undetermined amount of time for the manufacturer to figure out if they will even cover the cost of repairing your unit. Then you wait for them to finish the repair and then then will ship it back to you via ground shipping. YOU pay the cost to ship it to them for repair. Don’t leave out that you are now unable to use your saw for 2-3 months. So, NO, they do NOT have a better warranty when the Hercules miter saw can be replaced in about 10 minutes once you drive to your local HF.
I purchased the Hercules saw about 2 months ago and it’s exactly the same as the DeWalt available from the manufacturer, NOT the second rate cheaper saws available at the big box stores. I run a production cabinet shop that has a 6 month waiting list for a job. I have 6 employees. I needed a saw quickly and decided on the Hercules for a quick fix, but now will replace it with another Hercules when it finally dies. This saw is aligned PERFECTLY out of the box and is missing nothing that DeWalt offers. The blade is great…something that requires you to add another $50-60 to the DeWalt units.
I don’t knock any of you for wanting to spend more to keep up with your competitors expectations of you and your work. As for my opinion of you all….you just want to bitch and moan while you are really just keyboard warriors that have little to no experience.
Nathan
I was going to say it looks like a carbon copy of the dewalt saw and that’s was bothers me the most.
just like their drill and impact they put out last year. For the price I’d have to ask how much is that new DELTA arm saw – isn’t it at or near 399. I’ve try one of those first I think.
I’m not going to give HF money for bringing me their clone dewalt product. Which yes I’m sure is probably made in the same factory in china etc etc. But I don’t have to support it. I might however buy their battery and see how close it is.
Logan
Don’t worry about that – almost every Dewalt miter saw I’ve seen has been Taiwan. I checked them all when I was shopping for a miter saw.
Definitely not same plant if they’re not lying about COO.
Nathan
AH thanks for the clarification – but it’s still an outright clone of one.
I mean if you’re going to copy someone they at least picked one of the best.
MSke390
So what if its a clone, this is a legit startegy that is taught in business school. Nothing wrong with learning from others R&D, also, you do realize that this is common pratice with many other items like water heaters, dish washers, dryers, etc. i guarantee you own several rebadged items (clones) and do not even realize it
Whittyman
Well considering HFT has hired many ex-Dewalt and Milwaukee engineers…
Lucky
The HFT advert says that it is going after the Dewalt DWS 780 but way cheaper and more powerful with same or more convenient features. And now with better warranty . 1 year full refund warranty if you don’t like it.
John
Our neighbor bought a miter saw from Harbor Freight to install laminate flooring and baseboard in their house. He’s not particularly handy and often borrows tools and asks for help on projects. I knew he was going to be installing the floor over the weekend and assumed he’d knock on our door at some point. As expected, he came over midway through the job and showed me a bag of parts that came with the saw. He said he didn’t see anything in the manual about these “mysterious” parts and was getting worried that he may have missed something while reading the instructions. Turns out it was an extra set of carbon brushes. It seemed a bit ironic that there were no instructions on how to replace them however. I chuckled and wondered if Harbor Freight included the extra set out of the goodness of their hearts, or if they knew premature failure was a high probability.
Ken
Many of the HF power tools came with extra brushes. I once bought a hammer drill from them for $23 as a one time throw away and it came with extra brushes also.
Logan
I think it’s a joke they’d come with extra brushes. I have a couple throwaways from HF, like everyone, and I don’t think I know anyone with a moving parts HF tool that’s had it last long enough to need brushes. Motors burn up, gears lose teeth and bearings burn out far sooner.
MSke390
I have owned the chicago 12″ miter saw since early 2014 that has been used frequently, not had an easy life and guess what still going strong with original brushes and blade for that matter. Built something that required cutting countless PT 4x4s. I also bought their trim router when i made a cedar fence to route out where the cross beams go. Thats is three years old and still going strong on original brushes.
So now you know someone
Lucky
I agree with you
Scott K
I read the line about pricing twice. I don’t have any experience with HF due to my perception from others’ reviews. I can’t believe how much this costs. As a homeowner With a new baby my tool budget is now nonexistent. When I get a mitre saw this will not be in the running.
Pete
A year and a half ago the wife was complaining that she didnt have a drill(mine are in my truck). So i decided id go check out their red drill/impact combo to see if it would work for her. And it felt like junk… so i ended up going for the ryobi combo and am very very glad that i did. Well kind of… but now i think i have tooo many ryobi tools.
Late Night
Not worth it, if I were going cheap I would look at a Hitachi dual bevel which can be had for less than this thing…
Jake Williams
Harbor Freight tools are like ladders, they will get you to the next floor, but should not be relied upon as a staircase. If I have to spend $400 for a tool, I will spend $200 more to get something reputable. If this saw were $190 cheaper I would give it a shot, but at the price it is at now I will just read its reviews.
Joe Smith
Exactly. If they are going to sell things at these prices they better offer full warranties and stand behind their products.
Logan
The Hercules tools are priced next to Dewalt, Bosch, Makita and Milwaukee, but have weaker warranties and zero parts availability. The second it’s out of warranty it’s junk.
Their Vulcan welders are the same story. Priced next to HD Lincoln and Hobart, close to Miller, industrial market Lincoln and Esab. Same deal, weaker warranty and no parts availability.
I can’t imagine buying any assembly requiring tool (not just forged or stamped) with such a high price not having parts available.
If the drive motor dies in a Vulcan welder, what would’ve been a $150 fix, turns into a $1000 welder. That is my issue.
Logan
I was rough on a brand new Hitachi saw, and accidentally broke the fence and bent another piece. $40 later I had parts. It wasn’t warranty, it was my being dumb. I bet I could’ve exchanged it, but it wasn’t a defect.
I don’t know how they handle their warranty claims, but if human stupidity is excluded, as most of the time it is, you’d be SOL.
Duddly42
Exactly, my son splurged and got a Miller 212 and has used the Hell out of it. Fine piece of equipment that you can do beautiful welds with, a perfectly reliable. Personally, you couldn’t get me to be so stupid as to buy a Vulcan, HF can get bent.
mattd
I have owned one power tool from harbor freight. It was a grinder and it did not work after being turned on twice. For the price of these Hercules brand tools you can buy a known good brand’s tool, so I don’t think they will ever convince me that their power tools are worth purchasing, especially when they themselves won’t stand behind them for more than 90 days. That said there are plenty of other Items I have bought from them and am pleased with. I just don’t think i will buy anything that is powered from them again.
Jon Miller
I just paid less than that for my Hitachi 12″ slider with the rails in the front (which you guys don’t appear to have ever reviewed, which is nuts; all the benefits of the Bosch Axial Glide or Delta Cruzer models for $200 less). With a 20% off coupon you could get it lower, but it still wouldn’t have nearly the appeal of the Hitachi for me. I’ve never been disappointed by a Hitachi tool. Can’t say the same for HF.
Steve
Hercules is excluded from the 20% off coupons.
Jon Miller
I wasn’t actually talking about getting one. It was more of a rhetorical “whats the point” kind of point. (Also there are still 20% off coupons out there that don’t mention Hercules. Can’t help but wonder how they would handle those, but not enough to try as I have no interest in the tools.)
Matt
Agreed 100%. I sold my first Hitachi 12″ glider and replaced it with the Bosch Axial. After about a year I switched back because I found it to be a much better saw. Seriously underrated saw IMO…best slider I’ve used other than a Kapex.
Jon Miller
The axial is a cool concept, and I suspect that I could tune it up (or even more likely the Delta Cruzer since the arms are constantly preloaded in one direction, whereas the vertical axis arm of the Bosch can be pushed more easily in either direction), but when I discovered the Hitachi (no one ever does reviews of it like the other brands, and I rarely go to Lowe’s) I entirely abandoned thoughts of making those other ones work. Two actual guide rails, positioned like a Kapex. I would love to have a Kapex, but only if someone else paid for it. I saved almost $1,100 by getting the Hitachi and I can use my existing collection of blades (around $400 worth, all perfectly sharpenable by my local carbide service). I am currently building a very cool station for it in my tight shop (full machine shop and wood shop in a single car garage), which will allow it to take up far less space when not in use than even the relatively compact design already does. Subscribe to my theoretically-someday-worth-seeing youtube channel “Glue and Sparks” to see it when I finish. 🙂
Matt
Yeah…The Bosch is a great theory, but in actuality was less accurate than the Hitachi and less tune-able. The Bosch is also sort of odd to use…not bad, just takes getting used to. The Cruzer looks to solve at least some of the problems, but I don’t feel like playing miter saw musical chairs again lol…I’ll stick with my Hitachi at least until it dies.
I’ll check your channel out, too!
Chris
I think harbor freight would definitely have a market for tools without all the bells and whistles he more expensive tools have. Most people aren’t going to need a 20 minute light on the base of a drill, Bluetooth enabled tools/batteries, heck even brushless motors. Problem is they’ve already ruined their brand name with cheap, dangerous, failure-prone tools. It’s going to take a very, very long time for their Hercules line to change peoples minds.
I’m not knocking AvE, I think he’s a great YouTuber, but anyone who watches his videos knows he’s prone to calling a lot of his tear downs junk. When people hear him or a few other people say that a brand makes poor tools, this few comments could really hurt that brands image.
Joe Smith
I think AVE is coming at it from the perspective of a professional who has seen people burn through high grade tools at an alarming rate. To him most of this consumer grade stuff really is junk.
Chris
Yes. This is absolutley true. But sometimes the stuff he’s calling garbage won’t necessarily be garbage to a homeowner or DIYer.
IJK
Agreed. For the average Homeowner or DIYer, Dewalt/Milwaukee, even Ridgid, is overkill for what they need, versus something more value oriented like Ryobi. When Ryobi is already more than good enough, it’s hard to justify paying double for the red or yellow. To be honest, I’m actually thinking about buying into Ryobi and I already have a full stable of Dewalt tools.
Jon Miller
I’m fairly brand-agnostic. I have red, yellow, multiple shades of green, blue, whatever. My first set of cordless tools were blue and gold Ryobi’s that my brother-in-law decided weren’t good enough for his business because the ni-cad batteries didn’t last, so he gave them to me. I got years of service out of those (some still kind of work, but I’ve replaced everything with better versions) once I upgraded to lithium batteries. Now I still use my upgraded green Ryobi impact driver (P237, most user-friendly impact I’ve ever used, and one of the most powerful, but the M18 impact definitely beats it for sheer power, while being more frustrating to use otherwise), angle grinder, sawzall, oscillating tool (shared design with the Ridgid version, and they suck, so don’t buy them; way too much vibration at the interchangeable head joint), and a couple others. They’re good tools, when you keep in mind their point in the market. For serious grinding I use my corded Milwaukee. For quick or has-to-be-mobile things I use the cordless Ryobi which is like 1/5 the price of a Milwaukee cordless. Oh, and my line trimmer. Bought it used for $8 almost 5 years ago and it’s still going strong. Cordless, 18v is excellent for that. I don’t think the better brands even make that, do they? Thinking of adding a cordless leaf blower to the collection this year.
TZi
I’m not a construction professional, but for occasional DIY stuff I still think Dewalt is a good overall choice for a lot of tools.
One of the issues I have with Ryobi tools isn’t their power, but rather their size. A lot of Ryobi tools are just big and bulky. Even basic tools like their compact Drill/Impacts are all overly large and heavy compared to ones from brands like Dewalt. One of the reasons for this is actually just the fact that the battery design itself is also pretty big and bulky compared to the battery packs of brands such as Dewalt/Makita/Milwaukee.
IMO Ryobi products are there more for the innovation. For when you need something that you can’t find from the other brands. Or for some tools you just don’t need often.
I do keep a few Ryobi 18v tools (Router, Jet Blower, Brad Nailer, Cable Lights, tire inflator, hand vac), yet none of them are the very commonly used tools for me. For commonly used tools I usually just get the Dewalt stuff since they’re comfortable, compact, and for the most part relatively cheap compared to Makita/Milwaukee. I did end up with Makita’s track saw though, only because Dewalt’s was ridiculously priced to the point that getting a Makita + batteries/charger was still cheaper than buying Dewalt’s bare tool.
Anyways, back to the original thread topic. I simply feel like Harbor Freight prices even with 20% off coupons isn’t competitive enough to other big brands when on sale. I rarely use their stuff (aside from some consumables) because of prices. So if they’re not winning on prices, they’d need to win on quality if they wanted me to buy their stuff. And while I have very little first hand experience with Harbor Freight power tools, the general consensus seems to be that they aren’t winning on quality.
The problem with Harbor Freight’s price comparison is they always compare to MSRP prices, but realistically I don’t think I’ve ever bought a power tool at MSRP (aside from the Festool Domino, which I ultimately ended up returning). As a DIY type of person, every tool I buy is on sale because I’m never in a rush to get my tools. If the price is good enough, I’d buy it and find out later if i need it or not. That’s pretty much what kills off Harbor Freight for me. The prices beat retail prices of other brands, but generally don’t beat sale prices of other brands.
fred
HF has a long and arduous row to hoe for them to garner the trust of most who make their living from tools. For nitrile gloves and chip brushes they are my go to place. I must say that the store is usually crowded so they must be doing something right – as I usually see folks buying – not just returning. But the store actually smells – like cheap plastic, cosmoline or some combination of things that don’t convey lots of confidence. I’ve always been inclined to give vendors the benefit of the doubt and not come down on a new tool before the evidence has been weighed. But with HF their reputation for more than a fair share of shoddy power tools does precede them. Since Central Purchasing LLC (HF’s Parent) seems to have been successful selling what they do – one has to wonder why all this effort trying to launch the Hercules Brand as a Dewalt (or other pro-user brand) competitor.
IJK
Probably diversifying. They basically dominate the low end and disposable/consumable tool market. So I guess they’re just trying to expand, like any other business. And while I’m sure they’re self-aware of their reputation, there’s also enough beginners and DIY’ers who they can sucker at least once, which is all their marketing has to do.
Dominque
At 399 I don’t think so. Id rather spend a little more for a proven brand. Now at 299 maybe if the quality is there. But you can’t use there twenty percent off coupon on the Hercules line of tools.
robert John willeford
You can now pick them up for $299, just ordered me one and the matching stand
Andrew Betschman
This saw looks like is a DeWalt 780 rebranded.
Jared Richael
I saw this saw at the store today and played around with it. I own a 12″ bosch slider and it was 720 dollars a few years ago. Now I won’t be trading it in anytime soon because I live the dang thing however this Hercules looks very professionally made. Nothing on this saw says cheap. It is certainly more professional looking than the second tier tools( Craftsman, Ryobi, Ridgid, Porter Cable.) I think it’s ok to be hesitant or skeptical maybe but I think we should reserve our angst for later after people have had a chance to put them through the rigors. Kudos for another brand stepping up and trying to compete with the big boys or at least offering another quality option at a lower cost for the avid do it yourself er.
Paul K
That reminds me of car brands that tout their #1 in “initial quality” from JD Power…hah…initial quality…quality in a car becomes apparent 10 years later when after 200k miles you’re still on the original transmission, ah, that’s quality. And that’s the skepticism on this saw. Fit and finish is important, esp for alignment, but the internals, how long will the electricals and motor last?
Duddly42
That’S what I thought with my 71 AMC Ambassador, and kind of liked it as it was reliable then my dad mentioned the unseen thing…..rust. I said it doesn’t have rust and he said look underneath. I looked underneath and he said well? I said it looks fine just metal! He told me tap it with a hammer so I got one and tapped it underneath and crunchy rust and chunks fell, it was rotting from the inside out. Moral of the story, don’t be too sure of the appearance of a Hercules tool. LOL
DJA
“its price is a little too high to take a risk on. I wouldn’t want to be an early adopter.”
“My advice would be to wait a few months, until some user reviews start hitting the product page or YouTube.”
“I find myself feeling optimistic, but hesitant.”
Agree with all the above. HF has built its business by simply making the cheapest option and you take the chance on quality. They’re now saying they’re just as good, but cheaper. They’ll have to prove that before I buy. And I’ll let others invest their own money to help them verify the claims.
RC WARD
When the price is close why would anyone choose HF over a more reliable , tested brand? That may not be fair but it is a fact and makes sense. Until HF has some kind of a good track record they are fighting an up hill battle that is for sure.
Mike
So, does the Hercules line have spare parts available???? This seems to be a common complaint amongst HF (non Hercules) miter saw owners – absolutely NO spare parts are available.
If the Hercules line has no spare parts available as well, then it’s just a more expensive HF DISPOSABLE tool.
Jared Richael
The prices are t close, at least a 2 to 3 hundred dollar difference from the big boys.
Parrothead
As far as what I can tell from the video, it looks like a fine saw and is likely fine for DIY use, and also an improvement over their cheaper slider. Might even be on par with the name brands.
HOWEVER…
I can go to my Home Depot right now and pick up the DeWalt DWS779 for $349, or the Hitachi C12RSH2 for $389 after rebate from Menards. They both have parts availability and a MUCH better warranty. They’re the same price, or in this case, cheaper.
The question for the Hercules becomes…why? What is the compelling reason to pick that saw?
I have quite a few tools from HF, so I’m not against the company, but I think they’re wading into new territory without really understanding what will be required to do so successfully. They’ll figure it out eventually, but just not today.
James Holt
The dewalt dws779 cost $449 at Home Depot. So your wrong in $ comparison.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-12-in-15-Amp-Dual-Bevel-Sliding-Compound-Miter-Saw/1000145735
Drew
Parrothead….please explain how the name brand warranties are fulfilled. Can you just return the tool to the big box store and walk out with a brand new one or do you need to repack your tool, drive it to the UPS store, PAY to ship it back to the manufacturer, wait for them to determine the issue, wait for them to fix it and then wait for them to ship it back. Do you honestly feel this is a “MUCH better warranty”? The Hercules saw has a one year, full refund or replacement warranty available right at the store. You can return the saw and have a new one at your shop in about an hour. Personally, I value my time and can’t afford to be without my miter saw for 2-3 months, not to mention adding $40 to the price of the saw to have it shipped back for a “free, covered” repair. The HF warranty has a lot of value to me.
Sunny
Hercules is dewalt. Bauer’s 18v cordless line is porter cable – thats all there is to it. Dewalt designs some of their own stuff, some is made in the U.S… THEN some stuff is designed in China, mfgd in China and OEM’d for DeWalt (or whichever brand picks up a few hundered boxcars worth). Sometimes China rips of American companies. Sometimes American companies also their name on what China already makes. Dewalt is selling Chinese crap by the truck load… I get a kick out of how hard they push “Dewalt – Assembled in the U.S.* *select tools only” which, whatever; every big box, brand name power tool company does this… I’m just amazed to see how many people are foolish enough to shell out money for a name alone anymore- no research, no investigation – corporate faith…
A fool and his money are soon parted. To those who paid double for the same saw, don’t fret… you’re the ideal cunsumer.
A word to the wise and mechanically inclined: by used, vintage, and refurbish it yourself.
Stuart
Where are you getting any of this from? Dewalt and Porter Cable don’t design or make tools for Harbor Freight. If you’ve looked at the tools side by side, you’d see significant differences providing strong evidence to suggest that Hercules tools aren’t coming off the same factory lines as Dewalt tools.
Steve
Can’t be someone who makes a living with tools.
Michael
I am homeowner who does a fair amount of home improvement. Bought the old Chicago HF 12″ sliding miter for a song and a dance. Been using is since 2014 with good success, where they skimped is in the accuracy so I have to spend more time with this to make accurate cuts but having figured out the secret this has worked fine for two sheds, dining room table, countless renovations and other exterior furniture.
Travis Honaker
Yup, I bought it. Got it on sale. I grew up building houses with my dad, kitchen cabinets with my uncle and I gotta say I’m actually impressed. It’s tight, smooth, and surprisingly accurate. I bought it hoping it would at least be decent after reading an article by an engineer who visited their plant. It FAR exceeds my expectations. I’d buy it again if I needed another.
Don hummer
I’ve been a carpenter for 42 years. Where you buy the tool is as important as the tool. I do buy stuff at harbor freight but I would not by a miter saw there. I buy 90 percent of my power tools through acme tools because they replace or repair defective tools no questions asked. The Hercules line is definitely an upgrade from the old Chicago pneumatic stuff. Taiwan is better than China. If there are 2 tools I’ll by the Taiwanese one before the mainland unit.
Gary
Purchased the Hercules 12” miter saw and worked it every day of the week. Bought on a whim to try it out. Very impressed. Also purchased the replacement warranty $45. Handle broke due to worker not strapping stand in trailer. Replaced no questions asked. Watch the sale adds. $299. Can’t go wrong
Martha
I purchase this particular saw. I was making a cut a piece of wood bounce hit the left side of the bending the side …I called harbor freight asked were I can purchased the part, I was told that they donr sell replacement parts…can someone please tell me were to purchase a replacement part for this saw . thank you
ken
Martha, which parts is damaged? Can you further explain?