Hilti just announced their new NURON cordless platform, which is centered around a new 22V Li-ion battery.
There’s a lot to digest and discuss, and so we’ll take things slow, starting off with this brief introduction.
Hilti Nuron is described as an all-new 22V cordless platform with built-in connectivity.
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Hilti says:
Nuron is a single 22V battery platform that enables cordless tools on all kinds of jobs, from light duty drilling to heavy duty concrete breaking.
The Nuron product family will launch with more than 60 tools, and will include both handheld tools, such as drills, saws, and angle grinders, and larger equipment such as a jackhammer.
The 22V batteries have been redesigned. Together, the new solutions “deliver more than double the power of current 22V tools.”
There are 4 tiers of batteries, with descriptions my own:
- Compact
- Balanced Size-Weight
- High Capacity
- Extra High Capacity
All Hilti Nuron batteries are compatible with all Hilti Nuron tools. Smaller batteries will deliver lower runtime on power-hungry tools, while higher capacity batteries might be too cumbersome on smaller tools. The same is true for most brands’ cordless systems.
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Hilti Nuron’s Built-in Connectivity
Nuron will offer built-in battery diagnostics, which will inform users when the batteries are no longer performing at optimal levels. This seems similar to the battery health reporting that we see in modern devices such as smartphones and laptops.
Nuron will also feature location services, for tool tracking and an equipment management system.
Hilti says that Nuron will collect details such as when and how tools are being used, error codes, charging location, or battery status. Tool data and user information can be linked together, but only voluntarily.
Hilti Battery Compatibility
According to their FAQ, you can use an adapter to run almost all of your existing 22V tools with Nuron batteries. Also, there is no adapter for 36V tools.
Hilti Nuron In a Nutshell
There’s a wealth of information that we still need to unpack. For commercial users and larger teams, there are brand new “cloud-based data services” aimed to “simplify your tool crib and jobsites.” For all users, Hilti Nuron looks to be a single cordless system that can tackle all of your jobs, big and small.
Nuron promises:
More power and runtime – “up to twice the power of equivalent 18V and 20V platforms”
“The power of cords and gas.”
Cutting-edge safety solutions, including active torque control (ATC) to reduce the risk of kickback, dust removal systems (DRS), active vibration reduction (AVR0, and tethering options for when working at heights.
Questions?
With multiple new technologies and 60+ tools at launch, there’s a lot more to cover. What questions do you have?
Jared
I don’t understand Hilti – but that’s probably because I’m not a commercial user.
They seem way overpriced and hard to find. I understand I’m not the target customer so neither of those complaints hold water. Nevertheless, I wonder why commercial customers would go this route. Wouldn’t they just save a bunch of money using tools sold to consumers at higher volumes?
Obviously if you need a specific tool only Hilti makes, that’s different. But is a Hilti impact wrench, circular saw, flashlight, sds, etc really any better than what you could get from Dewalt?
Stuart
I think I can see and understand the appeal.
As individual users, we can put time and effort into researching each purchase.
If you managed a team, and needed x-number of tools for y-types of applications, it’s easy to call up a sales or account rep to get quick answers and solutions.
Let’s say you want an impact driver. Any particular pro-grade brand might 2 to 6 models to choose from, and different kit configurations on top of that.
Hilti is set up a little differently. When they sent a tool kit for testing a while back, it was a completely different experience than I’m used to. While I essentially received a kit, everything was a la carte.
I have talked to some pros who have used Hilti in the past, and so there are individual users as well.
When shopping for equipment, there can be direct and indirect costs and savings. Why do Snap-on users pay a premium to their mobile dealers?
Let’s say you want a cordless combo kit. Consumer kits sometimes have compromises, such as lower capacity batteries or less-featured tools. A bare tool circular saw might have a blade brake and magnesium shoe, while a combo kit version might have no brake and a stamped steel shoe. A bare tool reciprocating saw might have a 4-position blade holder, while the combo kit version might have a 2-position blade holder.
As end users, this is part of the research process as we make our purchasing decisions – and it’s something I created ToolGuyd to assist with.
But is this something commercial users want to trouble themselves with?
This is at least how I try to understand it.
Jared
That’s a good explanation! Thanks.
I certainly understood, even as I posed my question, that my not understanding the appeal didn’t mean there wasn’t something valuable to Hilti’s offerings.
I (obviously) spend time reading about and researching tools – but I’m not so well informed that I would feel comfortable offering off-the-cuff answers to “what drill/impact should I buy?” – too many options, like you said.
Even though I’m confident I could figure it out (and would enjoy doing it), it makes sense that Hilti’s service could alleviate what might be task taking time away from other work for a commercial user.
Plus, I suppose, this probably makes even more sense when the purchaser is most concerned with picking the right tool and making employees efficient than saving some money on tools.
Saulac
Correct on the business needs vs individual (including pros) needs. Same reasons why companies have account with Grainger and the like and not Home Depot.
But we can not talk about Hilti with out mentioning their supply/consumable. Hilti tools are designed to work with Hilti fasteners…etc. Hilti does not sell tools, they sell “fastening solutions”, to those who want and can afford the trainings/standards/consistency…of the system. Same reason why company outsource their office printing needs to HP/Xerox etc…but you and I bought printers.
Alex
I never understood the appeal of Hilti until i bought my 1st hilti concrete nailer GX120 (used): lightyears ahead of the alternatives (i was still using a ramset). I now own hilti TE-3000 &TE-1000 jackhammers, a cutoff saw, and the nailer,.the tools are so good nothing else comes close. But yes expensive.
Actually my te3000 just had to get a 500$ serviced because it reached 500 hours of use and was electronically deactivated “to prevent me from damaging it…..” still worth every penny
MFC
Wow, forced deactivation? I get that it needs service but if my tools shut off in the middle of a job I would be livid.
MM
Especially if that job is an emergency. Can you imagine if power tools being used by emergency rescue personnel suddenly decided to switch off for service?
I greatly prefer Dewalt’s system as on their larger rotary hammers where they have a blinking indicator light that tells you when it’s time for service….but you can still use the tool.
Tim foley
If it doesn’t meet a spec it can’t keep going have had ridgid propress do that to us at 4pm need backup tools the results could be catastrophic
Travis
I am a user of both Dewalt and Milwaukee tools and like them both. However, about a year ago my hammer drill broke and my neighbor (who is a commercial electrician) was nice enough to lend me his Hilti hammer drill (older and well used) so I could finish the project. Wow! Totally different class of tool. Made both red and yellow feel like junk!
Jim Felt
Another issue is the perception of quality/service/uniqueness.
One electrical contractor we use moved to Hilti a few years ago simply to keep everything on the same battery platform, the Hilti reps providing both demo and service replacement tools and the pretty accurate job site perception of exclusivity. Something no “retail” sales facing brand can or will do.
I’ve personally visited Hilti stores (without using a commercial account name) and been impressed by their staff competence levels even while I’m only buying the odd Hilti tool or part.
Can’t get that at any Big Box I’ve visited in a dozen states over the years.
OhioHead
The service from Hilti is supposed to be very, very good, mobile sales trucks, quick service, “connected” software (as I have read – you are designing XYZ, you need ABC (fasteners/fire stop “stuff”) from Hilti.
Private company (super long term focus) vs. stock market listed (quarterly profits focus).
Innovative company, just not as “splashy” as DW/MKE, etc.
Adam
One thing that I think sells large companies on Hilti is the fleet service aspect. You no longer have to worry about maintenance schedules; etc., because they take care of all that. Something isn’t working as it should? Just contact them and a new one shows up while they repair the old one.
It’s definitely an expensive service, but it saves a tremendous amount of time and hassle when you’re trying to manage huge crews and make sure they have all the tools they need.
Jason Hogan
Yes they are that much better! No comparason! Keep in mind, the amount of labor cost per hr on a large comercial job site is quite high. When everybody has to stop working because of a broken tool it can get very expensive!! In the long run its much cheaper to spend the extra money for the better tool!!
nigeldh
Jared, Go to hilti.com for a better understanding. Hilti is construction systems for anchors, supports, plumbing and electrical. Their tools are just one part of their ecosystem. A way to drill holes, cut rebar, bend conduit, for their other products. Hilti customers are paying for one stop shopping for code and engineer approved solutions. Not say Samson Strong Tie, the appropriate fasteners, applied with Dewault or Milwaukee tools – where the contractor has to juggle multiple suppliers.
Nuron is Hilti offering additional tools so you don’t have to go outside for circular saws, other tools. Plus you get on-site service and support so you don’t have to worry about the trouble and cost of sending tools out when they need repair.
This is similar to a large company using Global Industrial Services instead of contracting with individual, or regional companies, for the maintenance and cleaning of multi state facilities.
Terry
I own a lot of dewalt xr and my employer owns a lot of hilti gear. I get the opportunity to use both extensively. So to answer your question, yes. Hilti is a cut above, they hot harder, spin faster and last longer. You can’t compare hilti’s products to anything you can buy at home depot.
If I had the money hilti is all I would use but the cost of buying the hilti bare tool can be 2-3 times the cost of a dewalt you know where my money is going.
Jim K.
As a contractor and a hilti customer I will tell you the main reasons i chose hilti over the consumer brands. 1-Hilti has a tool lease program like no one else which allows my to provide powerful cordless tools to my work crews for pennies a day. The program also covers the tools if they get damaged and the tools have asset protection to help locate them which is great if a jobsite or work truck gets broken into.
2- hilti has outstanding support and field reps who will come out to the jobsite and train guys how to use the equipment , recently i got the remote automatic tripod with a new rotary laser and having a rep do a class right there in the field meant everyone there got a chance to learn the new system .
3- hilti tools have unmatched power an example hammer drills use alot of battery power i put a dewalt sds rotary hammer a Milwaukee and bosch against my comparable size hilti and the run time on the hilti and the speed was noticeably longer.
Doug N
I haven’t used Hilti tools but this seems like a brilliant idea. It accomplishes what everyone else has been trying and failing to do for years – create one battery that can power every type of tool, small to large.
Milwaukee could have done the same thing years ago if they weren’t so opposed to dual battery tools. Makita had the x2 tools but weak 18v batteries. And their XGT system requires and least 10 cells per battery so will never be compact. Dewalt seems to have given up on dual-Flexvolt tools, and their standard battery interface is too fragile for high power tools (hence the new 15ah wings).
Seems like the MX Fuel tools can outperform the equivalent Hilti Nuron, but MX Fuel is still too niche, expensive, and unproven.
Jared
Your comment sparked a couple thoughts…
What if Makita comes out with XGT pouch-cell batteries? It seems all the rage lately. Could that get them into compact territory?
Are the Flexvolt “wings” really a compromise? I realize they were an ad-hoc addition, but trying to use a wing-equipped Flexvolt pack in a compact tool is going to be awkward due to the battery size, not the wings.
Using an un-winged battery in a tool designed for wings might not be a problem either – at that point you’re probably using a “compact” Flexvolt pack in a tool intended for a high-capacity pack. Presumably the compact pack is light enough to support itself with the traditional connection.
Doug N
Whether Makita uses pouches or cylindrical cells, they will need a multiple of 10 per battery to keep it 36/40v. Since each cell is a nominal 3.6 volts. Whereas 18/20v tools need a multiple of 5 cells/pouches and 22/24v tools need a multiple of 6 cells/pouches.
Makita could still have a power advantage with x2 80v tools, but the batteries will be huge.
Not sure about the Flexvolt question. Those batteries do have a ton of potential, looking forward to new tools like the 20″ chainsaw. And I don’t mind having two types of Dewalt batteries.
Stuart
As Doug mentioned in his comment, Makita’s XGT 36V/40V Max operating voltage might drive up the complexity, size, and cost of a potential pouch-style battery. It’s possible, but might not be compact enough.
Maybe pouch-style batteries will be a way for Makita to bump up the max charge capacity available to their 18V tools, but it’s uncertain whether they would seek to do this.
Perry
Pouch cell packs are easier to build than cylindrical cell packs, since they can be soldered instead of spot welded, but if they build them “in-house” they’d have to re-tool to do so. Add in the engineering for construction and design of the cases to keep the pouches safe, and I would imagine makita will be slow to adopt a pouch cell.
Historically, makita seems to be slow to adapt new technology to keep up with SBD, Chervon amd others, but innovates on the tools themselves.
Ultimately though, Milwaukee is the biggest competition according to a friend of mine. She’s a Hilti Rep, and said last year they were losing a little ground in some areas because Milwaukee has been aggressively pursuing commercial accounts through 3rd party supply companies. That way, they can compete with Hilti ‘s all in one model for fasteners and tools.
Matt R
Hilti also has “fleet” pricing on all their tools, which is essentially just a lease price per month that guarantees no maintenance or repair costs. For large commercial contractors (especially in concrete industry), that’s a huge deal to be able to have tools replaced same or next day for no additional cost.
Dave
Can get any Milwaukee tool at thousands of Home Depots in the country and be back to the job the same day. Commercial companies should have an extra commonly used tool or two on hand in the event one fails. Its called redundancy/insurance.
Dave
Only costs you hundreds of bucks to leave the job. No big deal.
MM
The same could be said for the price premium paid for Hilti tools.
Perry
Not necessarily. When I lease a set of tools from Hilti, its priced differently than if I walk in and buy the tools. They make their money from the consumables, just like most lumberyards do and the service is built in to their business model, so intead of paying the markup between supplier-distributor-retailer, you’re paying the same markup for service that keeps you from having an employee leave the jobsite.
Hilti also provides free safety training, take-offs for fasteners and material requirements, and on site consulting.
They’re really geared for large companies that don’t rely on retail accounts, but have suppliers come to them.
MT
“Hilti says that Nuron will collect details…”
Pass.
I know I’m not the target market for these tools, but if I was, nope. I won’t use tools that need connectivity or an app.
Andrew
I understand that Nuron does not need extra effort for the connectvity. The charger simply uploads the data during charging for the (larger) contractor. If something is wrong with the batteries or tools alerts are triggered automatically to trigger action or replacement
Joe
I have used Hilti lots. I love the lasers. We had a problem and a Rep was able to come to site and solve our issues. My old company had many Hilti sets. I was happy using my personal tools because I own many specific tools that were not available from Hilti. This in turn led my boss to investing in another platform for millwork crews. Then it led to more of that platform being purchased. I believe Hilti was too slow to expand the line and lost some of it’s commercial client’s. I am interested in the new line up but am stuck in my current system which I am generally satisfied with. I am currently with Milwaukee and they have done enough to keep me as a customer. Hilti usually has less bs marketing and delivers reliable products. The price point is similar to fuel products in Canada. Sid 4 a22 impact driver is 209 Canadian. 18 volt fuel is 199.
MT
I don’t care about how much or how little effort the connectivity requires. I’m not willingly giving some corporation somewhere the ability to track how I use my stuff.
William
It just does not make any sense they come out with this now. They already have a 12 volt, 22 volt and 36 volt. I have tools on all three systems. Why would I buy all brand new tools? Unless they do what they most likely will do, kill the old systems. That’s going to put a bitter taste in a lot of people’s mouths.
Harrison
I’m going to guess their reason for changing to a new 22v battery style was packaging.
Since they have decided to go 2x for their light equipment, they need tight, square pack designs that fit next to each other. They also need the release button on the end (Makita/Dewalt style) so it isn’t trapped inside the tool. The need for a ‘pop-out’ mechanism to load the battery into the 36v rear-handle saw is an obvious example of the current limitations.
Who knows? Hilti has put out new tools on their current platforms quite recently, so I would hope they still have a few years in the product cycle. I’m sure the batteries will be around for a long time yet.
For what its worth, their current systems seem to have stuck around longer than the dozen others they’ve sold through the 2000’s.
JoeM
(I am so going to get shredded for this statement…)
I find Hilti to be a Red-coloured DeWALT company. But, due to the fact that they’re made in Europe, instead of using Globalization as a whole to lower prices, the higher prices make them a luxury item version of DeWALT.
Why buy a Dodge when you can buy a BMW, kind of thing. BMW and Porsche are both made in the same factories as Volkswagon, which is much, much cheaper. But the statement that you have the money to afford a BMW is a statement of your status.
Similarly, Buying Hilti in the tool world, is somewhat like a status statement. “I’m doing so well at my construction business, that I can afford to go Hilti instead of DeWALT or Milwaukee.” Then, once you have Hilti… and I’m not saying everyone does this, but I’ve seen it quite a bit… There comes the influx of Hilti Snobs who insult and put down DeWALT and Milwaukee users for not having Hilti. They’ll troll DeWALT (especially DeWALT, because it’s not Red.) and extoll how Hilti kicks DeWALT’s ass on (Insert new product release here)…
I’ve researched… I’ve checked specs… I’ve checked sales numbers… Hilti is to DeWALT what BMW is to Dodge. By extension, Hilti is to Milwaukee what DeWALT is to Milwaukee. They’re on par for quality, and differ in tool specialization and variety at launch. Obviously the tools one company releases, but the other doesn’t, can’t be compared for quality. But for Diversity? It tells a lot about what demographic they’re aiming at. Hilti seems to be aimed at being a European DeWALT. The differences in building codes, and material use, make Hilti geared toward Europe, but gives them an expensive advantage for specialization in DeWALT markets.
Hilti is no less “Flashy” than DeWALT and Milwaukee. They’re all designed to be utilitarian, because they all acknowledge the tool is going to get dirty when you use it. The new Neuron system appears to be equivalent to DeWALT’s offerings of Bluetooth Connect availability. No one really went in on the Bluetooth Connect options, so they’re rare to see. Seeing this “Innovation” Hilti seems to have taken that, plus the OneKey tech from Milwaukee, and built it into Neuron without extra attachments.
Do I think they’ll be any good? Well… I think DeWALT and Milwaukee are good… Hilti is on par with them, just imported… so… If you can afford to import them via whatever means, and meet the price? They’ll be good.
Alex
I disagree with you here. Everything I’ve seen of this new platform seems like it’s doing a lot that DeWalt can’t do. The “connectivity” piece is just there if you want it for better tool crib management. Separate from that, it’s just a much better cordless platform running on a single battery system, which no one else seems to be able to do right now. Seems like it’s better tools and better batteries than DeWalt by far.
Jim Felt
I think you’re confusing car brand manufacturers. BWM owns Rolls and Mini. Volkswagen owns Porsche, Bentley and Audi and others. And M-B, well, owns M-B now that they’ve sold Freightliner.
;-)~
As for the “status” of Hilti I’m not sure the average construction client business observer would know or care much about such things. Developers, architects, owners, underwriters, engineers, planners: who would care either way?
Just curious.
JoeM
Being totally honest here, Jim? I’m happy to take a ribbing on the car metaphor. I don’t even drive, or have a license. So, I don’t keep up on who owns what company. I’m happy you came in and corrected me, as I do find car brands confusing. Much affection for your assistance, Jim. Truly.
As to the rest… Honestly… and I say that word a lot, I’m sorry, it’s a quirk… I find Hilti to be an import competitor to DeWALT and Milwaukee. They’re in the same construction zone of the market, they make equivalent tools, and even some that we only see Europe buying due to the building codes. The prices are just… really high due to that import fee bit. Sure… lots of people have great experiences with them… Of course they do. I have great experiences with my DeWALT tools, and I bought into them somewhere around 10 years ago now, without any upgrades. And I expect Hilti to match that same level of satisfaction.
But I can’t seem to get as excited over them as others do. What I don’t have good experience with is certain Hilti Users who will go out of their way to trash DeWALT for existing. And for the price difference, I can see how emotionally attached people can get to Hilti. I just… can’t justify the zealotry that comes with this particular brand. It frustrates me that people seem to think this brand makes them better than everyone else, smiply for owning Hilti tools.
As far as I’m concerned… if you can afford to go Hilti, go for it. You’ll be just as happy with them as I am with my DeWALT, and those who have Milwaukee are with their own tools. They’re on that particular demographic, and there’s nothing I can see that makes them any less, or any more, than those two top companies. The Tool-Snob types are utterly baffling when it comes to Hilti, and I just don’t buy that level of aggression.
Perry
The big difference for Hilti up to this point has been service.
Using your car analogy, when your high end BMW breaks down or needs a service, they will come get it and bring you a loaner, whereas with a Dodge, you take it in yourself and get a rental car. Thats not to say that one is better than the other, name brand tools are all so good now, that it really comes down to preference and user experience, for the large commercial contractors its all about service and convenience
JoeM
So Hilti has integrated the Mac/Snap On Tool trucks into its primary brand, the way SBD and TTI have separated out their DeWALT and Milwaukee clones to their tool trucks for professionals.
It’s a wise decision to do. And I will admit I wish SBD and TTi would clue into that kind of reasoning. Swap out the Mac truck for an SBD Family Truck, and regardless of which brand they’re servicing, Stanley, DeWALT, MAC, etc… The truck has replacements or parts for instant service.
I’m guessing that’s the major outstanding feature that makes Hilti, Hilti. Integration with the users themselves. Every one of the big 4 domestic brands has one of these features unique to themselves. Service Reps that will come to you on-site must be Hilti’s “thing” in this case. But I’m still not convinced they’re worthy of Zealots berating others. If you’re a Hilti person, you’ll like the new Neuron system. If you’re a DeWALT person, you’ll probably like the new PowerStack. I’m currently blanking on the most recent Milwaukee feature… unless we’re talking FuelMX industrial grade tools, I don’t know what Milwaukee has most recently announced a line of. But Milwaukee users would like it anyways. Same with all the rest.
Mike
Well… As I have used all brands, I can tell you from side by side comparison, in the field, commercial applications, Hilti is by far the superior tool, they are faster, stronger, and more durable then any box store brand. Which in a commercial setting is what you need. It’s like comparing a pick up to a mrap.
They do gear towards commercial and industrial needs, and that’s where their tools shine. For the amount of use these tools are put through in a commercial/industrial setting, there really isn’t a comparison. Personally DeWalt, bosch, Nikita, burn out after 6-12 months of use. In commercial/industrial setting.
Timothy Foley
Cordless tools that last 10 plus years using everyday, replace batteries once in a while. I have been buying for 30 years from them. The equipment is the best. Not at all more expensive when you factor in the longevity and productivity. We have all the other brands too. The Hilti’s last a long time.
AlexK
I work part time for a kitchen cabinet installer and part time for a wood shop owned by someone who has been a general contractor on big commercial jobs. The kitchen cabinet guy uses all Milwaukee and his main guy uses Bosch and Dewalt. Other than how they feel in your hand, in real world use doing home remodeling stuff, they all work great. At the wood shop, Jerry has mostly Felder equip. – Sliding tablesaw, 24″ digital jointer/planer, digital shaper and other commercial machines, some with three phase. All battery powered tools are Makita, except what he carries in his personal bag, which is Hilti tools. His Hilti drill and impact driver are fantastic. Seems impervious to anything. Feels like using a tool with immense low torque for whatever you come across. JoeM was comparing it to dodge and bmw, but when you hold a Hilti, it’s more like comparing something for consumers v.s. something built to military specs. Only certain trades can really need what Hilti offers. I like the few used snap on sockets and wrenches I’ve got and I would love to have Hilti. I like things overbuilt, but I could use any of the tools that Stuart has ever written about and they would all be fine. If you build houses 40-60 hours a week, probably the upper tier of Dewalt, Makita, Bosch and Milwaukee tools is all you need. We may have our favorites, but any tool from any brand that I’ve grabbed seems to do the job fine.
JoeM
…Can we just agree I messed up that car metaphor really badly? If I could go back and use some other metaphor at this point, I would.
I’m not a car guy. My tool use, mostly, is done in my apartment, or wherever someone asks me to help out with my tools. I tend to use public transit for that, and carry my tools with me. Usually only the ones I think I need. My metaphor really did not convey what I meant, and I am deeply sorry to all of you who had to read that.
I was going for Hilti being the Import-Brand among the Domestic brands. Go to where Hilti is actually made, and I bet they’re considered no differently there, than we consider the Domestic brands here… They would even be priced approximately the same.
And my opposition isn’t to Hilti the brand, so much as it is to the Hilti Zealots in our market space. They tend to be overly aggressive, and attack anyone who prefers their DeWALT or Milwaukee tools. They’ll go to great lengths to try and show off how much better they are than the rest of us, simply because they own Hilti. Even the really excited fans of Hilti here in this thread are tame compared to the Zealots. That’s where I thought I’d get shredded.
Turns out it’s Cars… Go figure… I should’ve stuck to something I know better… Way less embarrassing that way.
surfjungle
Just to given some more context. I’m from and living in Europe and Hilti has more than a solid rep here and for very many years. While I don’t work in the trade, my understanding is that Hilti is not equally comparable to a DeWALT, Milwaukee or even a Makita. If you would like a demonstration, please go to Youtube and see “AvE” who did a Hilti drill and battery tear down some years ago. I believe the product is appreciably better than the top-of-the-line DeWALT at that time. Does that matter? Like everything, it really depends on what it is you are looking at doing with the drill and for how long. I got your car analogy just fine – and here both a BMW and a Dodge will get you from point A to point B. The question is do you care about the extras? Service, power, quality, longevity, etc. What is Hilti’s core business? Concrete processing. Would I buy a Hilti kango over a DeWALT kango – yes if I could afford it. Would I buy a cordless Hilti circ saw over Festool or Mafell? It depends. It’s not just about quality but about battery platforms and other systems (track and vacuum) they integrate with. I had the option to buy a Mafell over a Festool but chose the latter because of their multifunctional table and battery platform gave me more options despite the CAS system. Would I buy a Hilti die grinder over a Fein who specialise in metal processing and are allegedly the very first power tool company? Hilti is from Liechtenstein, a small principality on the border of Austria and Switzerland. While it does make tools there, it also makes them in 7 other countries including China and Mexico. I absolutely agree that snobbery is alive and well in all manner of things including tools. I’m sure there are some Hilti snobs out there and like other said I do agree that past a certain point, any tool will do the job with little appreciable difference. It’s a bit like photography – it’s more about the skill of the user and a professional will have that equipment which gives them the edge over time. The long term differences are in cost effectiveness (maintenance) and safety (vibration reduction etc). If somebody has to bash brands like that to feel better, it says more about them than the tool and I’m sorry to hear your experience.
x lu
Does this really qualify as innovation? Remains to be seen. If the power differential allows the completion of tasks more quickly and accurately (ie lower labor costs), than this is a step forward. And in the end greater net productivity is why we buy unusual tools and upgrade functional tools we own. Cordless in general was a huge advance as was li-on and brushless which advanced the state of the art. We are nibbling st the margins right now hoping for breakthrough advances.
DRT42
Hey, I get your point. But your specific examples are way off. BMW is a totally different company than VW and their cars are NOT built in the same factories. Heck, not even in the same city. If you have the chance to tour a BMW factory, wow … you get the idea. Amazing. Just for the record, I do not own one single Hilti tool. But I am not their market, either.
JoeM
Yeah, Jim pointed that out to me. I’m sorry… not a car guy… If I had compared Computer Parts, I don’t think anyone would have understood me.
Sorry for the confusion… My Car metaphor sucks.
Steve G
We use Hilti. The rep comes to our shop, refills items, provides training for free, advising on fastening solutions. Their fasteners just plain work and are LISTED which means the engineers will specify a Hilti product because it’s been tested and rated.
Their tools are generally very high quality. I use a hammer drill made in 1977. The new stuff isn’t as good but lasts.
They do sell a bunch of rebranded stuff under the Hilti name. They sell the Mirka drywall sander, their old 7-1/4 sidewinder circ saw was a rebranded Makita. They sell some Wera hand tools and also I think some Wurth, all rebranded. I suspect more of that goes on than we are aware of.
Nuron looks great. You pay a large premium and we are picky about which tools are Hilti and which aren’t.
Joshua Morris
As someone who has used many hilti products I can honestly say they are fantastic. Typically not the best spec’d tools ie impacts and such but the quality of their tools is some of the best and the warranty and turnaround is unmatched.
Just wish they would make a nice track saw, miter saw or 2( a 7 1/4 or 8 1/2 and a 10 or 12) front rail designs, and table saw, and find that off with a nice oscillator with starlock max
If they made those I’d probably buy most of my lineup in hilti, especially if they made corded adapters for stone of the stationary heavy tools.
I currently run dewalt, hitachi, festool, and bosch
A
Leo B.
This seems like a very nice set of tools, and one that could be much more of a one-stop shop for a builder than before. Before, it seemed like the scale of their cordless lineup was the weak spot, and Hilti just needed more cordless tools, period. This seems like a good option for a lot of commercial builders, especially with the charger connection and immediate inclusion of Hilti jackhammers and SDS drills. It’ll be interesting to see what other tools get released on this line.
Corey Moore
Every time I see “power of corded and gas” my eyes glaze over. Every manufacturer has been saying this for for at least a decade. That being, Hilti makes great tools, albeit in a generally less competitive breadth. I’m skeptical how long this line will last, though I admittedly don’t have the data for commercial/industrial contracts adoption of all the new IoT and BT tech, but it’s likely going to hinge on their ability to push this flashy new stuff over their existing (well regarded for longevity) stuff in service contracts. Build quality and longevity plus convenience for fleet vs wider selection and pricing of their domestic competitors has always been their game, spec and performance has met a point of diminishing returns in the present day as Milwaukee milks 18v for all it’s worth, Makita tops out their tech, and DeWalt picks new names for stuff instead of talking about what they’ve done right, but I digress. These seem gimmicky to me, and not typical of what’s associated with Hilti. Curious to see where it goes, but expect to see limited success stateside and eventual roll back here while it sustains and/or takes off around the EU.
Harrison
I hear you. Manufacturers have been ‘crying wolf’ on cord/gas like performance for so long, it’s hard to believe them now that we’re finally starting to get there.
Gotta love the classic ‘Cuts like a corded saw!’*
*(With specially-designed thin-kerf blade.)
The first battery tool that’s really caught my eye is Husqvarna’s latest generation 36v arborist chainsaw. No more games- The T540i actually cuts faster than the gas T540, same bar & chain, etc.
Back to Hilti, I think the aspect of this rollout that feels weird to me is the cheesy ‘Nuron’ branding, and over-styled batteries. Seems out of step for a company that is usually pleasantly conservative with their industrial design, and always cultivated a professional, grown-up image. Maybe things are changing, and it’s time to attract more of a ‘tool enthusiast’ following, like the other ‘Red’ tool company?
Ken
Everyone in the comments keeps referring to how expensive Hilti tools are, but nobody has bothered to look at the pricing on the new Nuron line of cordless tools. You can pre-order them now at Hilti’s website. The pricing is about the same as other prosumer brands like Milwaukee and DeWalt. For example, Hilti’s Nuron jigsaws are $234 bare tool, compared to $199 for Milwaukee and Dewalt. What really stands out to me are the prices for basic tools: drill driver is $109 and impact driver is $169. Keep in mind that these prices include Hilti’s 20-year warranty.
See for yourself:
https://www.hilti.com/make-it-fit/tools?voltage=Nuron
So the prices for basic tools are perhaps 10% more expensive but you get a 20-year warranty.
Everyone in the comments also keeps assuming these tools are only for commercial jobsites. At the prices listed, I don’t understand why the Nuron line would not be suitable for DIY enthusiasts like myself. We’ll have to wait and see how their performance compares, but based on the info I’ve seen on YouTube, it appears possible that some of the Nuron tools will perform better than the top tools from Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, and Bosch.
Stuart’s brief introductory editorial didn’t mention that the “communication” feature is not built into the batteries, but rather the chargers. That is a pretty significant innovation IMO. I can see how this would be so much better for jobsite managers. But for homegamers like myself, I like that there is no need to download and connect to an app. And if you don’t want the NSA spying on your battery health, then just don’t connect the charger to wifi.
Stuart’s initial editorial did not go into any depth on the innovations in the batteries. If I understand correctly (and if Hilti is being honest), the Nuron batteries will be able to deliver far more power than any other 18V/22V platform. Here’s a good YouTube video that shows and tells:
https://youtu.be/_7pHgbDatMY?t=82
Whether the Nuron battery’s ability to deliver so much power will matter for the types of tools that DIYers like myself use remains to be seen (e.g., impact driver, impact wrench, cordless vacuum, recip saw, rotary hammer).
Harrison
Seriously, a lot of the Hilti’s basic stuff is actually great value, never mind the warranty and service.
Their 12v brushless drills and drivers are like $120 each up here in Canada, and you can get their fantastic compact 4AH battery with 21700 cells for under $70.
I wish they would expand their 12v line, it has huge potential. They probably just keep it around to bait people into their product line though… Still, for a DIYer who just needs a drill (and not much else) for around the house, 12V Hilti would actually be an interesting choice.
They are proud of their 36v tools though… Compare prices vs. Makita 36v XGT for instance, and you can see the premium.
Big Richard
I think they are still the only 12v manufacturer using 21700 cells. Yes it makes the batteries bigger, but the tradeoff may be worth it to some.
Ken
I believe that both Bosch and Milwaukee’s 12V batteries use 21700 cells for the 3.0Ah compact battery. However, I cannot find confirmation of this anywhere. But it is a good assumption based on 18650 batteries typically maxing out at 2.5Ah. My understanding is that there are 3.0Ah batteries in the 18650 size, but they are unreliable. In contrast, 21700 cells typically have a minimum capacity of 3.0Ah and are very reliable.
Another hint is that both Bosch and Milwaukee released their 3.0Ah compact 12V batteries only recently (and alongside their older 1.5Ah and 2.5Ah versions).
The only question is whether the Bosch and Milwaukee compact battery housings (which are a “stem style” and slide inside of the handle) have enough room for the 3 extra mm of girth per cell.
I have some of the 12V Bosch batteries in both 2.0Ah and the newer 3.0Ah so I should really pop off the cover and measure the diameter of the cells to confirm. I can say that my 12V tools have noticeably more torque when running the 3.0Ah batteries compared to the older 2.0Ah batteries.
Big Richard
They would not fit in the handle if they were using 21700 cells. Those are 18650s, 100%.
18650s do not max out at 2500mAh, they just produce a lot of heat when you get around that 3000mAh size and so are not ideal. Milwaukee has used 3000mAh 18650s in their M18 6.0 and 9.0 batteries (they now use 21700 in the HO 6.0).
MM
I did go check out the prices on their bandfile, which is a tool that I want but I do not need.
Bare tool $524, and that’s not even including the sanding arm attachment I would require, which is another $167. Battery options are $115 each for 4ah or the next step up in the Nuron line is $174 for 8ah. Chargers start at $40 for the most basic. So, to put together a useful set I’m looking at $961 assuming I go for the cheap route of two 4ah batts and the basic charger, which is pretty marginal for a tool like this. Something that would make more sense like the two 8ah batts and a mid-tier fast charger ($84) and a required charger adapter ($34) would cost $1157.
Meanwhile a full kit (tool, batt, charger, belts & accessories) from the infamously expensive and just as service-oriented Snap-On is only $760.
A Metabo setup including the bare tool plus a starter kit with charger and 5.2ah batts is $720.
A kit from Makita including 5ah batts, charger, tool, and case is $479; that requires an additional $60 arm to suit my needs, so the total there would be $539. Now to be fair the Makita is a weaker power class of machine compared to Hilti, but the Metabo is not and the cost savings are very real for many tools.
As another example, consider an SDS-Max rotary hammer. Hilti’s model (rated 1-9/16″) costs a grand for the bare tool, or close to $1500 with two batts and a charger. Meanwhile you can get a Flexvolt DCH773, a substantially more powerful tool with 2″ rated capacity, kitted out with fast charger & two 12ah batts for $1150.
Corey Moore
That’s $49 cheaper than I paid for my 773 lol should’ve waited
Robert
Having tools like the 14″ cut-off saw or the demolition jackhammer on the same battery system as my impact driver or compact drill seems like a strong argument to me. No need to run a separate higher voltage battery system like Milwaukee’s MX Fuel.
MM
I can see the desire to run on as few battery platforms as possible, but I’d imagine an MX fuel demo hammer is in a whole different class compared to Neuron. It is a substantially more powerful battery platform.
Robert
Did you compare and test the two yourself yet?
MM
In person? No. On paper? Yeah. Hence why I wrote “I imagine”. MX fuel is 72 volts actual or 80v nominally. It’s not even in the same ballpark as a 22V (nominal) system. The largest tool Hilti offers on the Nuron platform is a 1-9/16″ rotary hammer, they don’t have anything close to what Milwaukee is offering on MX.
Robert
I have experienced Hilti jackhammers and rotary hammers typically to punch well above their weight class when i compared them with other models.
I am looking forward to getting my hands on both to compare once again for myself.
MM
I agree that Hilti tools are usually superior to their counterparts, but this is a HUGE difference in power which I am not sure the “Hilti Magic” can make up for.
The largest Hilti Nuron battery is 12ah at nominal 22 volts, or about 264 watt-hours. Meanwhile the MX 406 battery is 80 volts nominal at 6 ah, or 480 watt-hours. That’s nearly double the power available.
If Hilti is going to have their large tools compete with MX then they are going to need to come out with a dual-battery configuration for those larger tools.
Big Richard
@MM, the MX Fuel batteries are 72v nominal, so the 6Ah is 432Wh. And the larger Nuron tools (the ones that would compete with MX Fuel, like the breaker or 14″ power cutter) will be a 2x system, so they will be 44v. Using 2x 12Ah packs, they will have 518.4Wh (21.6v x 12Ah x 2), actually besting MX Fuel.
Same with Makita XGT, their larger tools are a 2x system, and using their largest 8Ah batteries they can put out 576Wh (36v x 8Ah x 2).
I’m not suggesting either system is better than MX Fuel, but in terms of energy capacity, both Nuron and XGT can at least compete with MX Fuel.
MM
@Big Richard
Yes, I’m aware that’s the nominal rating. My intention was to compare apples to apples. Correct me if I am wrong, but Hilti’s “22 volt” figure is also nominal.
Now I absolutely agree that if Hilti does come out with a dual-battery system they’re absolutely in the same ballpark as MX. But as it stands with the tools that are available right now I don’t see Hilti Nuron competing with MX when it comes to something like a large cutoff saw, breaker, etc.
Big Richard
21.6v is the technical nominal rating. My point is, that you were NOT comparing apples to apples. You used MX Fuel’s 80v max voltage, but called it nominal, in your Wh calculations, but Hilti’s nominal voltage. That’s not apples to apples. See below.
“The largest Hilti Nuron battery is 12ah at nominal 22 volts, or about 264 watt-hours. Meanwhile the MX 406 battery is 80 volts nominal at 6 ah, or 480 watt-hours.”
And I’m telling you, Hilti DOES have a dual battery system, it is this Nuron system. Their breaker and 14″ power cutter are 2x, just like Makita XGT. You gotta trust me, I cannot make this up.
MM
@Big Richard
My mistake, I said “nominal” when I meant “max”. Coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.
So, just to be clear, if we’re comparing max ratings it’s 22V and 80V, and actual voltage is 21.6 and 72.
As for the Nuron tools, perhaps the dual-battery versions aren’t out yet? I scoured Hilti’s website and their 14″ cutoff is on the OLDER (not-Nuron) system, and there is no Breaker under the Nuron line, just SDS plus and SDS max roto hammers.
Big Richard
Not a problem, I know that you know, I was just correcting for others sake. And the max rating of Hilti’s Nuron is actually 24v (6 cells in series x 4v max), the nominal rating is 21.6v (6 cells x 3.6v nominal). I assume they rounded up to 22v because it sounded better than 21.6v.
Your MX Fuel numbers are correct though, 80v max (20 cells x 4v max) and 72v nominal (20 cells x 3.6v nominal)
Power cutter (12″ not 14″ as I said above):
https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_POWER_TOOLS_7124/CLS_GAS_SAW_SUB_7124/CLS_BATTERY_CUTOFF_SAW_7124/r13693257
And you can get a good look at the breaker at around :52 seconds in this video:
Clayton
I’ve been a tradesman for almost 20 years and own a company of 18 electricians. I still actively turn tools. I’ve been though nearly all the manufacturers and honestly happy with most of them. They’ve come a long way since the DeWalt 18v nicad kit was de facto the best. I’ll usually buy a kit to try and eventually give it to an apprentice. Milwaukee is great, I love the m12 versatility and compact size. They’ve been tough for years of abusing them (the back of the drills are great mallets for tapping equipment to level) and never had one tool break. The 18 volt fuel seems to be the new standard. Good tools.
I picked up a Hilti hammer drill, and it was honestly the first time I was impressed vs satisfied. Extremely precise and powerful drill. Very solid without being bulky. Extremely smooth. Perfect cuts with hole-saws through metal, absolutely zero wander or wobble. Chucked up some ship augers and raced my apprentice with some other brands, the Hilti confidently beat everything. (Flex was a good drill, came close but is not as refined and nearly as much cost as the Hilti, also a little box store gimmicky, why the button for “turbo.” Mode? Once you press it for more rpms and power why would you ever take it off as opposed to dropping gears?).
Dropped onto concrete, worked through the rain on rooftops doing solar, and still as strong as day one. And actually the price was almost the same as the most popular names. Bought the 12v impact for a tool bag driver, and it’s tiny but does everything I ask it to, way above what it was designed. Drives oversized lags with ease. Hilti is just a touch above everything I’ve tried. Battery warranty can’t be beat. Rigid might have lifetime but you’re not getting that replacement same day. 25 year with same say replacement.
The only issue I have is until recently they’ve been limited on specialty tools. Still waiting for a multi tool. Also annoying having to order online or go to the one Hilti location in town.