Over at Kickstarter (what is Kickstarter?), there’s a new campaign for these Knife Edge screwdriver bits, which the inventor claims are far better than ordinary Phillips bits.
You see, Phillips bits are designed to cam out of screws when a certain torque is reached. If a screwdriver bit cams out and pressure is still applied, it’s going to knock around the fastener head until the screw socket, screwdriver bit, or both are damaged.
These new Knife Edge Phillips screwdriver bits are designed for use on damaged screws, and also fresh screws. They’re not screw extractors – these bits are designed to be used in place of Phillips bits wherever and whenever they’re used.
There will be 4 sizes in total – Phillips #1 and #2 bits in 1-1/4″ insert bit-style and 2″ Power Bit-style lengths.
Price: Knife Edge screwdriver bit “rewards” start at $10, each. There are discounts for multi-bit pledge amounts. The post-Kickstarter retail price is planned to be $14.
Fundraising campaign ended on 8/12/2015.
If you’re having difficulty visualizing the geometry of these bits, it’s not just you. The bits seem to have wider prongs than traditional Phillips bits, which agrees with Knife Edge’s description that it grips the inside of the screw head on the edges giving you the most torque.
I wish there were better images, but I was directed to the Kickstarter page, Facebook, and the website. Their website has an awfully obnoxious auto-playing video, and the Kickstarter page has gross overuse of bold text. These guys definitely need some PR and marketing help. And that makes me even MORE interested in the product.
Too often I see Kickstarter and other crowdfunding projects that are answers in need of problems. This one looks to be a real product that answers a real and very common frustration.
I avoid using Phillips screws wherever possible, but the darned standard just won’t die! While I’d like to say I switched to hex, Torx, and Robertson without ever looking back, Phillips screws are still everywhere!
$10 is a little steep for a single bit, let alone $14. If the product reaches its funding threshold – they’re currently about 11% of the way there – they’re going to need to find a way to reduce the per-bit cost. A retail cost of $14/bit is not going to work for professional users.
I wonder if these Knife Edge bits could be made even better if they had anti cam out features, such as on my ribbed Wera drivers.
For those of you that cannot escape Phillips fasteners, what do you think about these bits?
To be completely honest, I don’t think we’ll be seeing these screwdriver bits in stores anytime soon. At $14 a bit, it’s going to take a lot of work to convince retail shops to clear some shelf space, regardless of the advantages.
Price Check: Dewalt 30-piece Phillips #2 pack for $7
Even if a national retailer buys a quantity of these Knife Edge bits and puts them on the shelf at $14/bit, they’re going to sit there and collect dust. That is my candid opinion. $14/bit is going to make it hard if not impossible to move sufficient quantity of these bits.
Not only does a tool inventor that wants to reach a nationwide audience have to be able to sell their products to end-users, they have to sell it to retail buyers as well.
I’m confused by how the inventor compares his prices of $14/bit to that of screw extractors, but then in some of the other product descriptions it says these are not screw extractors. Am I the only one?
Here’s the bottom line: Can (1) of these bits truly be better than (60) of those regular Dewalt bits at the same $14 price? That’s the question that Knife Edge will have to answer, both to end-users and to retailers. They’re going to have to SHOW this.
I really do think that these bits would be better licensed to manufacturers for production. PLUS, doing so would ensure a higher quality product that’s quickly perfected through multiple rapid iterations. Large power tool accessories manufacturers have the ability to test and revise these bits quickly, and to potentially manufacture these bits for less money, and also the marketing might to get quantities sold to and through retailers and distributors.
That’s the path to success, in my opinion at least.
Right now, the inventor hasn’t chosen a steel alloy yet. All of the demo videos show them being used with cordless drills and not impact drivers. Whether or not these can be used with impact drivers is a concern readers expressed in comments.
Check out the reader comments and then chime in with your opinions! Let us know what you think about these modified Phillips bits.
$14 per bit could pay for itself if it allows you to use cheaper Phillips screws where you would otherwise spring for more expensive Torx, etc. Of course, that bit needs to be pretty durable, and their concept needs to actually work as well.
Like you said, there’s no getting away from all the Phillips screws out there even if you’ve sworn off them for new projects. I’d be willing to give this a try.
If you try it you will be convinced pretty quickly.
Another better mousetrap?
Well maybe – but as you say the price may be a disincentive to buy it.
I guess we’ve all tried Phillips bits – said to be better. Over the years I’ve bought Apex and other ACR (Anti Camout Ribbed) bits and others with grooves cut in them. More recently I’ve tried diamond grit coated bits from Wera. These are better – but not perfect – and with too much torque and too much pressure they can surely bugger up the screw.
You’re also correct in saying that Phillips is still a rather ubiquitous screw style. Try getting brass flathead screws in Robertson pattern – even if you were willing to swap them out for what comes with brass hinges.
Hmmm…. are they better than JIS screwdrivers like the ones from Vessel tools?
I was just about to ask the same question.
I was wondering this too. Just got a couple Vessel JIS drivers for working on my Toyota and they seem to work well.
I thought that JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) were a variant on the Phillips design – and like other cross-point variants its good to match the bit/screwdriver to the specific screw. I used to work on a lot of different bikes. Used Hozan JIS screwdrivers on Japanese Bikes, use B.N.A.E. (French Recess) bits from Apex on some older French bikes that were not Pozidriv. Then there was a cross point style called Frearson (Reed & Prince) that were sometimes used on trim screws on old cars – hence Proto used to make drivers for these.
There really not the same.
They are really not the same.
‘Drywall’-phillips bits give MUCH better performance than regular phillips bits. A multi-pac can be had for not too much $. Not sure a $14 bit will give that much better performance than the drywall phillips bits.
My friend who hangs drywall for a living says Knife Edge bits are much better and last longer and he’s been using them for a while now.
Philipps pattern screws are the bane of my work. And to make things even worse here in France they still exist side by side with pozidriv. The result being that most people don’t differentiate them, meaning we see a lot of stripped heads. Some trades have switched to torx mainly in the woodworking and furnishings, also some cctv systems makers and at least one baby car seats maker (their French office is downstairs from us and they came by to ask if we had any torx25 bits last week) , but obviously it couldn’t be that simple and you have about 25% chance of finding tamper torx in place. Robertson are virtually unknown. Conclusion being you need to be prepared for almost anything (and being in the security industry I sometimes end up in front of triwings, snake eyes or torqset).
A little valve grinding compound on the tip of a phillips driver will give you a lot more traction.
I used to try that but it doesn’t help enough when it helps at all.
My guess what makes these different than ordinary Phillips drivers, is that the flutes don’t appear to taper towards the point, or at least not nearly as much, which should reduce the tendency of them to want to cam out of the head.
That’s really a very small part of the multiple things we did to make these work.
My question is, for $14.00 (not including taxes or shipping) and fact you only receive one, wouldn’t this increase the effectiveness with a anti cam out ribbing or at least some sort of textured finish? Additionally, none of those screws were rusted or in a material that dense such as metal. Also, the screws weren’t THAT stripped as there still was still some gripping surface.
Overall, this looks to be a interesting concept, but won’t replace the traditional Phillips driver. Especially since I doubt this tool works for Phillips drive sizes below drive size one and might not work on drive sizes three or four.
Stan we did trials on rusty screws, wet screws, oily screws on old cars and really soft screws like the ones that come in a bag with off shore furniture you assemble yourself. The only one that was a challenge was one rusty screw was so rusty that it just kind of disintegrated into dust as we started in on it and frankly nothing was going to move that one because their was no metal left in it. And no, we didn’t video those because that wasn’t the mindset at the time and we didn’t know if it was going to prove out. I do wish we had done so now and we may go back and do some more but I honestly don’t think it’s necessary based on peoples response.
In answer to your statement about replacing the traditional screwdriver, I remember saying that about CD’s compared to cassettes. They said hammer handles would always be wood. Who would have thought we’d ever have synthetic oil or that it wouldn’t come in a can? When one product proves to be superior it rises to the top. Only time will tell.
looks to me they are rounding the inside while sharpening the edges so that no pressure is applied to the inner corner points – which are the first to get reamed out.
thus the edges of the blades of the bit drive the screw on the flats only. is a guess – although I have to assume it’s been done before I am curious. hope these aren’t made out of titanium too
You are partially correct. Also nothing in our design has been done before or if it was, it was never listed at the patent office or anywhere else that we could find. And no titanium is used.
Thank you for the article on my new Phillips bits. First in answer to the end of your story the answer is Yes, Knife Edge Bits do have anti cam out features. It was the first goal of the design. The bit stays in the screw until the user removes it and this design doesn’t polish or rub off like some bits I’ve tried in the past. It’s all part of the master plan we started out with. I recently had to hang a ceiling fan right before shoulder surgery and even I was amazed at how easy it was without needing to push my driver up like before. All I had to do was hold it up there and let the bit do it’s work and remeber I designed it.
Additionally this bit works with oily, worn, rusty screws as well and lastly the price is simply necessary because these guys are extremely difficult and costly to make but will last much much longer partly because they don’t bounce around in the screw taking a beating and partly because they are made of the highest quality material available. I would bet one of mine will outlast 10 of theirs any day.
If you read the entire story on my kickstarter page it
explains everything in detail. Also I am not a professional copywriter and sorry for all of the bold words. Those are just important points in my opinion.
I will answers question from anyone who is serious at [email protected]
nice response, so I have to ask – what material are the bits to be made of?
If you don’t mind the question. and is there going to be a PH#0 made or is that too small. reason I ask I work with tiny philips screws on some things that are #0’s that end up through or near circuit board and occasionally some numbnuts runs them down way to hard.
At this point we have no plans for a bit that small.
I’d try it , it should be a felony to posses or traffic in Phillips screws .
Cam out is not an option , if these things are the cure ,sign me up .
Chris you can get some now at the kickstarter link above at a discount if you act before the sell out and revert back to normal pricing.
Just as Emm said, what’s different from JIS screw drivers.
JIS screw driver and screws are designed so they don’t cam out, as I understand it. I’ve never understood why the JIS standard has not expanded beyond the motorcycle/vehicle market segment. Anyone have any insight?
Mine have a special patent pending under cut combined with an edge and certain angles that allows the bit to hold onto the screw deep inside the head in an area that is usually untouched, without you leaning into it and without damaging it until you are finished driving it to where you want to be. No one else has this. I hope that answers your question.
You don’t see many (if any) Pozidriv or its variant Supadriv screws this side of the ocean either. Perhaps for the same reason – that you would need to change out all that embedded stock in screwdrivers, bits and screws. While we complain that Phillips screwdrivers don’t really work well on Phillips screws – the work even less well on JIS screws. These patterns are not really interchangeable.
I really liked the old Frearson (a sharp pointed cruciform) screws – as they were less prone to camout – but I think they disappeared when Reed&Prince went bankrupt and was liquidated. The new R&P company seems to have acquired the name of the old company – and not the inclination to keep making the drive pattern.
if they actually worked and prevented most damage to screws and lasted a decent amount of use then I would pay the price. damage to screws can be costly in material and time surpassing the cost of the bit. if it fails in accomplishing any of those then forget it. hope it works out for dan and myself.
George, You just said exactly what my whole thought process is. When I worked in a high level production shop if we dropped a clip of staples and it broke into more than 2 pieces, we were told to kick it aside instead of picking it up because our time was more valuable. Time is money and when the damaged screw you need to replace for those custom hinges has to be reordered from over seas your project just got pushed into the corner until it gets here. This bit is designed with eliminating that in mind.
Dan, thank you for responding to my comment. So seeing as you seem to be open to answering question I have one that chances are most people may not ask (for various reasons) but I will.
Where is this Knife-Edge Phillips drive made? In other words, what is the country of manufacture/origin of this item?
Stan, The primary reason for the Kickstarter campaign is funding for tooling and setup. Up until now we have only had small batches made. While we have preferences where we would like to make them when we gear up to full swing it will come down to quality first and then cost. Before everyone responds to this about being made in America please know that is our first preference however because of the very precise and complicated methods required for manufacturing the cost without shipping or any packaging is well over triple the price here in the states. These cannot be simply stamped out or forged like a traditional bit and it’s difficult to find someone who can manufacture them correctly.
That video is not comparing apples with apples. The part which shows the Phillips bit (which we can’t even see the condition of) is when the screw is first screwed into the wood and the operator is allowing the screw and the bit to engage at a non-optimal angle – which is when all the slippage can be heard. When the Knife Edge bit is used, the screws are already half screwed in and the angle between screw and the bit is much better controlled. How about a video showing a fair comparison please?
That is a really strong statement on your part Mikka so let me be very clear. Nothing we did is trickery as you seem to suggest! I wasn’t “allowing the screw and the bit to engage at a non-optimal angle” I was trying to get it to engage with the screw and instead it was slipping and trying to bounce out which has always been the problem when no guide hole has been predrilled. (It has always reminded me of a rodeo rider trying to stay on his mount.) That is why they call them “guide holes”. The bit was as good as they come and the Makita guide was simply there to help me try and get the bit to stay in the screw. I have used it for more than 20 years that way. You will notice that when I changed to my bit I was able to get it to work holding it the same way. And again, no holes we predrilled in any demonstration. That is why you see so many empty holes in the wood. As I mentioned in an earlier statement, I recently had a major shoulder surgery and so doing more videos won’t be happening anytime soon. When I feel better and have more time I may but my inclination is to let the doubters stand back and come around on their own time. When they see others enjoying my bit and they are still struggling they may decide to try one then. We have sold about 1000 bits in only 5 days with very little effort and the support has continued to stay very strong for which we are very appreciative.
Can you tell us the type of metal and Hardness (HRC) of the bit? As Stuart wrote in his review that $14 per piece is expensive, how are we to be assured these won’t wear out quickly, any specifics?
Your patent design and name indicates that the knife edges are a key component to it’s performance, so if the edges get dulled does the bit no longer perform as it should like a kitchen knife?
Thank you and I’m looking forward to hearing about the specifics prior to purchasing.
CB, We are still making that final decision. We have several small sample batches we are testing presently. The ones we are leaning towards are S2 professional grade hardened steel and have shown to be very strong and durable. They also hold the edges even after deliberate abuse without being brittle. Hardness is a fine line between just right and too hard.
CB, I realize now that I didn’t completely address the rest of your question. We have sample bits that utilize our other innovations without the “knife edge” and they are more superior than traditional bits. The edge is only one of more than 4 carefully balanced design changes. That is all the commenting we will do on the design. While it is certainly reasonable that things wear out at some point, I honestly think that more of these bits will get “misplaced”, with or without help, before they ever wear out. I would keep mine in my pocket.
Dan, Just asking for a fair comparison shouldn’t be a problem should it? You should be thanking me – if you can devise a more scientific comparison that shows the superiority of your product, your potential customers will be convinced much more quickly. As it stands, your video detracts. You could always ask one of your satisfied customers to help you re-shoot if your shoulder is still troubling you. When you say no holes were predrilled in any demonstration, does having the screws already half-embedded in the wood before you turned-on the camera when using your Knife Edge bit count? Apparently not…
In this video(00:39) the guy tries to match pozidriv screw with phillips bit than realizing he has a problem(damage). I dont think fooling people is not right idea for coming out to the kickstarter.
Hi Dima, Uh, sorry but no. look closer. None of the screws we show are anything other than good old standard Phillips screws. Prove it to your self by looking here.
There’s also the Vibra-TITE anti-cam fluid which helps removing damaged philips heads:
I have to say Shane that I have never heard of this stuff but I can see how it might work. Thanks for bringing it up. The issue I see is who is going to go through their work day putting liquid drops into screw heads to try and prevent problems. If you are using a power driver which is almost always the case what’s to keep it from flying out when you turn the screw? I can tell you you would not make it through the day in a professional environment before being dismissed. Another issue I see is if you dripped any on the surface next to the screw or on the work in general. I just can’t see it for anymore than a DIY with lots of time and sure hands or work they don’t mind having something contaminated while using using a hand held driver. I’m quite sure paint or stain will not cover it. But still a good idea in some circumstances.
I just pledged to be a backer.
One question. I’m assuming these are not intended to be used in an impact driver.
Our 2 inch Knife Edge power bits should work in an impact driver.
Dan, …Should – do you mean you have not tried it?
I do not like it, thats all…
it is easy to screw broken screws into predrilled wood even with flat bit….
You don’t have to like it. Just to be clear, at NO TIME did we use predrilled holes or any such nonsense for our demonstrations.
Dan, I’ll give you credit for answering my initial question. However, if you are going to make this product in China, then you can say that. Ideally this would be great if this made domestically, but most people don’t seem to care about country of origin and only price.
I am going to be blunt here with you. Let’s say you didn’t pre-drill the holes, how would the person know if you didn’t? If this were me, I’d videotape this product a bare surface to prove that. Nothing beats solid evidence.
Jim, Stan,Mikka and anyone else who may have thought we might have used pilot holes.
Stan, At this time we are leaning very strongly towards using someone other than China for manufacturing. A final decision has not been made but they are not in the running unless something unforeseen comes up.
This is a video I decided not to use originally. I consider it my blooper reel. I think their are 3 or 4 spots on it. The last one is what you asked for so please watch to the end. Unlike all of the other videos that were cut down for time this one wasn’t and you can absolutely see that their are NO PILOT HOLES and that is a solid piece of 2X4 wood.
Dan, to be honest with some of the screws partially in the wood this appears as if this might have been pre-drilled. Please don’t take this the wrong way some businesses and even are not above lying and cheating. At least here, people have remained civil as that isn’t always the case. I didn’t mean my comment in any hostile way or rude sense at all.
However due to amount of liars and cheaters in this world especially online, some are more guarded than others. At NO point am I stating you are that at all, but you can get to the point in your life where you have been lied to enough instances where this becomes challenging to trust others. Companies more particularly as they have an agenda to make money.
As a word of advice, solid evidence will persuade “doubters” almost every instance. Towards the end, there was that as clearly those two screws weren’t pre-drilled at all. If you claim that none of screws were pre-drilled, I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt for sure. However, the only proof of this is your own word and that is quite a slippery slope for the person on the other end.
Stan, Try this video. I thought it was part of the last group but apparently not. I fully understand where you are coming from. I just want to prove to you and anyone else that this is on the up and up.
Over in the UK we use next to no Phillips screws at all. The only time are on door handles and they go in by hand, or on drywall and they go in with an adapter.
We use Pozidrive screws for everything here.
Are they not widely used over in the US?
If not why not? Pozidrive are massively superior in terms of snappage resistance and lack of camout.
We can’t get a way from Phillips over here in the U.S. Everywhere you turn that’s what you find. If they didn’t make or ship another one here ever again we’d still be running into them for 100 years. I originally invented this tool for my own use because it seemed like every time I had to work with screws I really didn’t want to have a problem with, I did! It was only after people kept asking for my bit that we decided it might have a market. We have had a very successful run on them so far on kickstarter. The link is above or you can google “kickstarter knife edge”. Presently we have almost $23,000 in pledges to 635 people world wide in less than 10 days for which we are very appreciative.
We have plenty of Phillips used over here but not for joinery work etc.
Are Pozidrive not popular?
Phillips are terrible screws under torque and Pozidrive were brought in to solve the problem.
Literally no tradesman bar drywallers use Phillips for fixings.
If I had to use Phillips for fixing I would find another career!
It’s not the Phillips screws as much as the drivers. The traditional drivers ones were designed to cam out. With the proper driver the screws work fine and since they are already out there that was the issue. I did a pretty big write up on it on my kickstarter page.
No, Pozidriv isn’t really used here a lot.
The biggest alternatives to Phillips fasteners and bits in construction applications are Torx, specifically T10, and Roberston (square) #2.
That really surprises me. I just assumed that Pozidrive were used everywhere. They are absolute industry standard here.
Square drive are rare only really used by pocket hole users (like me!) Torx have a bit of a following but I would have said 99% of fixing were Pozidrive.
If you use a Spax or Reisser pozidrive screw you will get virtually no camout.
This issue isn’t why aren’t they used here. The issue is they weren’t used here but so many Phillips screws are everywhere already. As Stuart mentioned their are other screws but that is only helpful if you are starting fresh on a project and can choose which fasteners you use from the beginning. Everything else is likely going to be Phillips. That’s why I made these Knife Edge bits.
Ok Dan the truth is you are coming over a bit arrogant and a bit “I only want to talk about my specific product” and that’s not a great way to get people interested in your product.
I am not convinced by the video and how fair the comparison is between the standard driver bit and the new driver bit.
Firstly why would anyone be trying to drive a damaged screw in at all. 20 years of working and its not something I have done more than a couple of times
The way in which the drill driver is held and used in the standard driver demo would shame my 2 yr old son. Its all skew and no care is taken, wheras in the new bit demo its held plumb and great care is taken. Its not a fair comparison.
I am also not convinced by the fact that in the standard bit demo you are starting from scratch with the screws needing to get started wheras the new driver bit demo the screws are already well started.
My opinion they will be good for about a day and then will just perform the same as any other bit.
I like the idea that someone has made an attempt to find a solution to a problem that has plagued fitters and mechanics all around the world.
If it works you can justify the price.
I do it with drill bits, 50 holes for 1/4″ or smaller and I feel I got my moneys worth!
Driver bit, usually Bosch Gold double ender, 500 screws or more. $3.00 a pop.
At $14.00 I would be looking at 2000 screws or more!
John, I am curious, are you the same John from overseas or are you another “John” ? Everyone who reads this knows who I really am. I wish I was afforded the same.
I am always amused when people are quick to judge others, but have done nothing at all themselves to solve the problem that you admit you have had for 20 years? Why not be proactive and do something positive about it yourself?
All of my life I was taught that you are part of the problem if you are not part of the solution.
You insult me because you say I only want to talk about my product but I have to ask, whose product should I be talking about? I have solved a problem that has plagued millions of tool users daily for 75 years and I shouldn’t talk about it?
You also asked who drives damaged screws? Obviously nobody given a choice. I have been in situations that all we had were the old screws but really this was all about demonstration and we all thought it was obvious so I’m surprised that you mentioned it.
Your next comment was a cheap shot and nothing less John. You say my demo would shame your 2 yr old son but I am betting and hoping that he is in good health and that he hasn’t been challenged with the deteriorating Rheumatoid arthritis in his hands for nearly as many years as I have and the very fact that even I can do it in my state says a lot about my bit that you don’t think I should talk about. Are you the same guy who points out a person on crutches and proclaims that your son can out walk him as well? It doesn’t say much for you does it? I’m not complaining, I don’t need sympathy, I’m just explaining. And no, I’m not going to have someone else redo it.
My videos are all on the up and up. Anyone who doesn’t want to trust them or me, doesn’t have to and I’m okay with that. That’s a freedom we all have.
Fortunately, most of the world doesn’t feel that way. As I write this I have received several inquiries and solicitations from some well known companies who would “like to meet and discuss our joint opportunities”. I am certain they know what they are doing or they wouldn’t still be around.
Additionally we have sold over 2400 bits in 10 days or so to over 670 people all over the world. By this time tomorrow those numbers will be much larger. It’s simple, the people have voted and we won.
In closing John, we have one of our bits that we have used and abused in testing for over a year to see what it would take and we can’t get it to wear out or break. It’s showing some minor things but when we continue to use it, it still drives screws just as it did to begin with. We know it will wear out, we just don’t know when because we haven’t been able to get there yet. These bits are professional grade hardened metal. They don’t bounce around in the screws beating themselves to death as the old ones do and that has a lot to do with longevity. As I mentioned before to one of my customers that while we didn’t put a clicker on it, it’s a safe bet that it will surpass well over 10 times what any other bit will take and still continue to work better than any brand new traditional bit. I wish you the best John. I really do. All I ask is next time, be nice.
You are arrogant. Anyone who invests in this is a moron. First it’s patent pending, anything could happen. Second you dont even know if it works in an impact. Third the only testing you mention is with your drywall buddy.
Your entire description is how you are the best and nothing compares. The videos you made are misleading.
Why does kickstarter allow people like this. $14 for a bit that isn’t even impact rated. Amazing! Even if I were to invest you’re high and mighty attitude on here turned me off.
Another idiot snake oil salesman.
I am “john” from the UK and “John” is a different chap.
I made no cheap shots, I simply stated that you were coming over a bit arrogant. That observation stands based upon your subsequent reply which is exactly that.
You need to accept that you will get asked difficult questions in order to sell your product. You seem to treat legitimate queries as personal slights which is ludicrous. I have an involvement with
I still say the demo is totally flawed by the conditions and approach being different. It is designed to over emphasise the new drivers performance and by doing that actually does the opposite and detracts from it.
Respond as you wish but I will not reply back. Just to clarify I don’t know you or your medical history so how can me querying the demo be a dig at your arthritis? And no I do not spend time mocking the disabled with my son.
I regard Toolguyd as a great resource and am not going to get drawn into a slanging match
I whole heartedly agree with your last statement. Peace!
Dan, I won’t speak the two year old statement or arrogance, but all and all, john from the United Kingdom did make up a valid statement. Difficult questions will be asked in this type of setting as the people that post are generally more interested in tools than most. Some may even be licensed legitimate tradesmen as well.
I’ll give you credit for not running away and not providing pure nonsense answers. However, as I said previously, the questions/comments here have been mostly polite. Believe me online some people can be VERY vicious and write statements that they’d probably never say in person.
You have a Youtube channel and some of the cruelest, most disgusting and disturbing comments come from there. That isn’t even covering some of the videos, but that is a separate issue. Of course, the content isn’t nearly as bad as what you might find on sites such as 4Chan, but none the less the internet can be a rough place sometimes.
Preface, I am not making this about you, but rather in general, but this is probably why most CEO’s don’t really make it a point to speak to their customers. This is very easy and potentially a great feeling when others praise you, but this is challenging when others criticise you, even if this is constructive criticism.
So if you or anyone can take ANY message away from this message let this one sentence be that. Haters going to hate, but constructive criticism is worth listening to and in this case reading.
It seems like we are becoming friends here and I appreciate your comments. I will reply to you since you extended the olive branch.
One of the things I grew up on was constructive criticism from my father and grandfather, both professionals who worked with tools. I am very familiar with it and in fact used it quite successfully with my 22 youth ice hockey teams that I coached. It is an art that is very effective when presented the right way.
I have a favorite saying that goes, “Minds are like parachutes, you fall quickly if either one is closed” so I’m always willing to listen as long as someone is respectful.
My challenge is when someone accuses me of being disingenuous. I don’t accept it very well. Does anyone really think that if I was going to run a scam, as some have eluded to, that I would call the business, Pinckard Tools, LLC when I am Dan Pinckard instead of something generic without my name in it?
I was raised to always be forthright with people in order to expect the same in return which is how I live. My word is my bond. If this were a smaller world we could all meet somewhere and actually try them live, but it’s not.
A few days ago on my kickstarter page I put up a reward but inadvertently reversed the shipping for U.S. and international, which of course costs more.
71 people signed up for that one before it was brought to my attention. I immediately shut down that reward and re posted it correctly. Then I messaged all 71 to let them know that I had made a mistake and wanted to make it right. It was an eight dollar difference against U.S. buyers and in favor of the international buyers. I stated that if you were a U.S. buyer I would give you a choice of a free extra bit ($14 for my $8 error) or you could cancel and start over with the corrected link and corrected shipping. Then I told the international supporters that it was their lucky day, that they got an unexpected discount but we’d live with it.
Now Stan here is the interesting thing. I only had a handful of U.S. people say they would take the free extra bit. The rest said thanks for telling me but to keep the difference, they were happy to support me and wished me a huge success. Obviously, I was overwhelmed and said thank you. When the time comes I’ll throw in an extra anyway because I want to, it was kind of them to offer but it was my mistake and as I said, what people think of me matters.
I really didn’t expect to hear from my international people as they were up $8 but you’d be surprised how many emailed me and said no, we want you to have the right amount. Tell us what to do. This is not what I expected would happen and I certainly had some expectation of a complaint or two, but I received nothing but thanks and support.
The bottom line here is I messed up, I came clean as soon as I knew it and I honestly think in doing so I locked up some lifetime customers by being honest. This is simply how I live, always.
Then I have the challenges over here where it seems that some people really want to challenge my integrity. They don’t know me. They haven’t seen or tried my bit. They have all the reasons in the world why I’m this or that and it couldn’t/wouldn’t work and it must be trickery, etc. when the truth is, it really does work and one day when everyone tries it, they will realize that I was telling the truth all along.
Doesn’t it seem strange that the people that are giving me money, people from all over the world who I’ve never communicated with prior, trust me and want to help and here where I haven’t had one backer that I am aware of (If I’m wrong, I’m sorry) so many want to question my integrity and ability without any reasonable cause?
I’m getting very close to my goal Stan and things are really heating up, we are on schedule to double our goal in only 30 days, but I will say that when production is complete I will fire some of these off for Stuart to try and he can give his opinions which I will welcome.
Thank you for letting me share my thoughts.
I wish everyone good health.
Without it, nothing else matters.
I just thought I would offer an update. We are proud to announce that we have reached our fundraising goal on kickstarter of over $35,000!
We still have 14 more days of fundraising but at least now we know we have our initial funding for our first official production run.
We are obviously very happy and appreciate our supporters getting behind us.
Thank you very much!
Thank you Stuart. I don’t know if you read my message where I said I’d send you some bits to try but expect them in November if that’s okay?
Yep, sounds good, thanks!
Actually, can you set aside a bunch of bits for readers to test out? I’d like to see some more independent testing and testimonials on these, no strings attached.
We have already committed to numerous testers. That is all we are prepared to do at this point. The “testers” are anonymous to us. All we were told is that they range from general contractors to industry “stress testers” and were chosen by one or more tool companies that are in discussions us because of their interest in our bits.
We also have roughly 5000 bits that have been pledged for on kickstarter that are going out all over the world in November and we still have 9 more days to go. I think you will agree that many of those users will have plenty to say once they try them whether we like it or not. We are confident and counting on it in fact.
Respectfully, the results from those anonymous testers or “stress testers” will never be made public, will they?
I think that the readers who expressed doubt in your testing methods would be excellent candidates as testers, as they can be relied on to provide honest feedback to the community, good or bad.
Jebus folks, give the guy a break. Folks make out like he’s Bernie Madoff or something.
He has already gone far above and beyond what he needed to do as a project starter. I have been involved with campaigns that took a full year over what they stated before they finished everything up, but they stayed true to their word. As Dan said, some backers volunteered to pay more to help get things to the finish line.
I imagine they lost money on the Kickstarter campaign, but now they have a growing business and a lot of experience. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same happened here.
Dan has put a lot of time, energy and no doubt his own money in an idea, that’s the spirit I want to encourage. We need more folks willing to go out on a limb for something they feel passionate about.
I look forward to getting my bits. Best wishes, keep looking forward.
Thank you Allen. I appreciate your perspective and spirit of understanding. We are a startup. I know you understand that in plain English it means that we are striving with everything we have to get our business off the ground.
Stuart, as for if the companies want to release their data publicly I think the measure will be when or if they decide to put together something we can work with in a deal to market our product or we may continue building to market it ourselves. It’s still early and we are off to a good start. Giving away free product isn’t in the plan.
“Giving away free product isn’t in the plan.”
Wow, I hope you meant that differently than how it sounds. Thank you, but no thank you, I am no longer interested in testing or reviewing the product if/when it heads to production.
If your product is as good as you claim it is, sending test samples, and not “free product,” to some of the readers here might have provided for some objective testimonials.
That’s a little harsh. Let the man do his thing, his way, on his time schedule.
I think Dan is the sort of person who believes in what he does, seems to me he goes full throttle while maybe ignoring the “no wake ” signs.
I applaud a person who pushes his ideas, sometimes those folks might push too hard, offending some.
From reading some biographies my understanding is that many inventors are a little difficult to live with, something about the nature of the beast to think their way is the best way, but I think that kind of attitude is necessary in the business of bringing an idea to market.
All the best, it’s an interesting conversation.
Please explain the difference between test products and free samples?
One is a way to solicit objective user feedback of benefit to the community and other potential buyers, the other is what you get at the supermarket or mall as a way to entice you to buy more.
Some of the vocal readers and commenters here, both those critical and optimistic about the product, probably work with more Phillips fastener in a day than I do in a typical month or even two.
Test products are given with the expectation that the users will provide honest feedback. That includes criticism as well as praise. It’s invaluable for identifying the strengths of the product as well as identifying weaknesses and shortcomings that may not be apparent from your own testing.
Free samples are given with no expectations implied or directly stated. The hope is the user will tell coworkers, friends, and families about the product. It’s advertising.
If one cannot understand the difference then perhaps it would be
best to leave the PR and promotion to another individual or organization.
We may have our disagreements Stuart, but I 100% agree with you here. Personally, I am disappointed in you Dan and I was actually going to contribute to this project as well. Wasn’t just me, but I showed this product to several legitimate professionals that I am acquaintances of as well. They are no longer interested either.
Dan’s reluctance to provide test products to those who might provide an unbiased objective opinion on this item. Test products by definition are NOT the same as free samples.
For all we know these “stress testers” and “anonymous testers” could be the backers of this project and even given some compensation if they only give positive feedback on this tool. I doubt any of these results will ever be public and if there were any comments that weren’t 100% glowly with positivity they will be omitted or rewritten to better reflect the product.
You know it’s situations such as this that make me want nothing to with Kickstarter. Then again, Kickstarter is entirely all about profit and doesn’t give a darn about the backers at all. Once they acquire their fair share of the profits, who cares if the backer ends up losing everything.
Stuart, Mike and anyone else following this,
It is of course not my intention to offend anyone. I was one of those guys for many years who used a Phillips bit day in and day out. How else would I have come up with the ideas we needed and used to make the new Knife Edge bit?
I will consider what we discussed and put it before my board. A lot can happen between now and November when our first shipment is expected to arrive.
It’s November. Did anyone receive one yet?
(Yes, I do realize it is only the beginning of the month…)
…now the end of January. The website has listed the delivery date as six weeks or less for a long time. Looks like I may be eating a bit of crow on this one, Stuart.
The company has started selling these bits, with all orders expected to ship by the end of March.
Pricing is $17 EACH, plus shipping.
If you buy a 3-pack, you save $1 off the price of each bit ($48 plus shipping).
If you buy a 6-pack, you save ~$1.17 off the price of each bit ($95 plus shipping).
If you buy a 12-pack, you save ~$1.58 off the price of each bit ($185 plus shipping).
Anyone received them? How are they/
I never bought one, and haven’t found any complaints. Frankly, I can’t find any real world reviews other than the customer testimonials from their website. But read the three blog posts that have been written since the bits were finally shipped:
I don’t know the exact complaints that caused him to write these, but it would make me hesitate to spend $17 on a single bit if I had been thinking of doing so before.
I have yet to hear from anyone who has actually bought any of these screwdriver bits.
From one of your posts that you made for the purpose of educating the masses about using the correct bit for the fastener:
“So why am I telling you this? Because we have also heard from 3 or 4 people out of 5000 or so who felt they might have had a problem with our bits. ”
You felt compelled to write THREE consecutive posts on bit sizes for no reason other than random educational public service announcements, completely unrelated to any complaints about your product?
Then you come here and write a flagrantly false reply to my comment. You further insult everyone here by claiming “Most people don’t know that a #1 Phillips bit fits a #2 – 4 screw. Yes, you read that right.” You learned absolutely nothing from your previous negative interactions here.
I kind of wish you would restore his comment because without it I look like an idiot, randomly spouting off about imagined insults.
He started talking about his lawyer wanting to file legal complaints against us, and I decided then to revoke his commenting privileges.
almost three years had passed. What happened to the super philips bits since? Have the orders been shipped? I see their website now offers 3 sizes (but still no #0)
Any real world feedback?
Nothing that I’ve heard or seen yet.
And also thanks for editing my two comments into one 🙂