I ordered some new-to-me Loctite thread locker to try out – 222MS – and it arrived busted.
The order was with RS Hughes, and I took the opportunity to order a resupply of disposable gloves. The Loctite was at the bottom of the shipping box, just floating around.
I’ve ordered Loctite threadlocker from McMaster Carr, MSC Direct, and maybe Zoro before. Zoro doesn’t do very well shipping adhesives or chemicals. RS Hughes beat MSC and McMaster on price.
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I need a new go-to for things like this.
But not Amazon. I ordered a bottle of SuperLube from Amazon recently, and it arrived without a cap. I sent it back and placed a new order from Home Depot, which shipped it out direct from the manufacturer.
So… maybe I’m shopping for these things from McMaster and MSC exclusively.
Anyway, I recently ordered a new bottle of Loctite 242, and apparently they also have 243 which is the “new” formulation. When reading up on that, I saw that 222 (purple) is a lighter duty threadlocker, and 222MS is the mil-spec version that’s also said to be a little more resistant to contamination.
I went with 222MS over 222 because it was a little less expensive.
Reading online, Loctite 222 is supposed to be better than 242 and 243 (blue) threadlocker for smaller fasteners. I’m working with smaller set screws in a new project, and thought I’d try it out.
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I called RS Hughes and asked for a refund. Nothing else seemed contaminated – I think some of the purple theadlocker fluid leaked out when I opened the cap to check the nozzle. The nozzle was intact but the seal was broken somewhere and it was a mess inside.
This is not my week for smooth shipping apparently.
RS Hughes’ customer service was great. They said they could get a replacement in 1-2 days (the original order took a day or two to process and about a week to ship), but I opted for a refund.
I get hung up on leaking bottles, and will order a replacement.
Where do you order supplies like this from?
Al-another-Al
McMaster will-call is a 15 minute drive for me. They pack the orders into shipping boxes and leave them on the shelf for a couple of days. If you don’t show up, they ship them out. Ground UPS shows up with a clean pristine box.
TomD
It’s so nice being near will-call for places like that.
My pet is Uline, even though their shipping is reasonable (they’ll send an 18 wheeler with lift gate to my door for $35), I like picking up in person.
MM
I buy that kind of stuff in person. Around my area there are many places which carry it. Fastener shops, MRO, hydraulic hose & gasket shops, etc. They all have a variety of the industrial Loctite variants.
I really hate sloppy packaging and it seems to become an even worse and worse problem. I’m honestly puzzled how it happens–do the people packing things honestly not realize that things get banged around during transit, or do they not care? Surely everybody has experienced the frustration at least once of receiving a package only to find the contents damaged due to lack of padding or the wrong materials used?
It even seems to be a recurring problem for products that are known to have that issue. I bought some Glucose syrup for baking from Amazon a few weeks ago. They packed the relatively small tub of syrup in much too large cardboard box with no void fill at all. Of course it bounced around in the box, split, and leaked. When I reported this to Amazon to get a refund I found that many other customers had the exact same problem with the exact same product. Surely someone would think: hey, we have a lot of returns and complaints on this particular issue, let’s make sure we pad this product extra well when we ship it? I’m sure there is pressure at Amazon to work as quickly as possible and to use as little dunnage as possible, but fact is that refunds & exchanges are more costly than a little padding.
Stuart
With Amazon, I learned something when they shipped me cans of juice that seemed to have been leaking before being boxed up. I think they aren’t paid enough to care, and they’d rather make things like that my problem than theirs.
I’m having an issue with Amazon now at the affiliate side of things. Nobody cares, they’re just robots who are seemingly graded on how fast things are “resolved” even if they’re not.
As a customer, I’ve gotten used to Amazon customer service agents lying to me in chat and over the phone just to be able to disconnect quicker.
Amazon no longer has pride in anything. No one cares. I’ve had a 17 year relationship with them as an affiliate, and longer than that as a customer. Nobody cares.
When I contact customer service as places like KC Tool, McMaster Carr, MSC, Zoro, RS Hughes, they seem to genuinely care.
I ordered socks from a company direct rather than Amazon. There was an issue, and I heard back from someone that cares.
I finally heard from a tool brand when they wanted me to promote their Prime Day deals. I had previously emailed them about a readers’ issue but never heard back. So I flat out told their rep no way, I won’t promote them.
Zoro shipped me a sensitive gauge in an unpadded plastic mailer. It arrived damaged. I called them, requested better packaging. The second arrived in the same unpadded bag and was damaged. I paid more from MSC and it arrived in a box with cushioning and was perfect.
Zoro ships me chemicals with super-sticky labels right off the directions and safety info. They send hand tools with super stick labels that peel and rip and need chemical removal. Their customer service is great, but I have to be deliberate about what I order from them.
McMaster Carr send me aluminum channels with gouges cut into them. They said they’d take it back, but that it’s to be expected since most customers process metal via various machinery. That was a while ago and I’ve had better luck ordering rod-shaped stock, and precision rods where surface finish is important.
A bottle of something from MSC arrived leaking. I think that was just bad luck. Things happen, I just don’t like it when it’s due to careless handling rather than bad luck.
TomD
This is exactly it. They get yelled at if they take half a second longer to bubble wrap a fragile item that’s not marked as such – they get NO kudos or rewards for preventing a return.
If it costs them ten cents to pack it right, and 5$ to refund/replace, and it blows up less than one in 50 times, they’ll always pick the “wrong” option.
Contrast this to the small press I buy from (the owner packs each book) – they all arrive individually wrapped and bubble wrapped in a box many times the size of the book. Secure. A bit more expensive. But each one arrives pristine even if the box doesn’t survive.
Steve
Do you mind sharing the name of the press?
Thanks.
TomD
Sure – small sci-fi/horror – Centipede Press
https://www.centipedepress.com/
(I’m in for the Lafferty series but they have lots of irons in the fire; subscribe to the newsletter!)
MM
I am happy that I no longer do any business through Amazon. Back when I had my machining business we first sold some products directly via our own website and also via Ebay. Amazon contacted us inviting us to sell on their platform. Our response was that we’d like to, but right now we don’t really have the manpower to properly manage all the listings. No worries, the Amazon rep told us, they would take care of all that, helping to import the data from our site. They did do this, but as you said they seemed to be focused on getting the job checked off as done but the work itself was sloppy and full of obvious glaring mistakes. And then once we got all the problems sorted out new errors would randomly pop up even though we did not do anything to cause them. They must have bots (or idiots) going around fiddling with the database. Once Amazon decided to move a few of our products–suspension components for racing motorcycles–to the organic foods section and tagged them as “gluten free” and “strawberry flavor”. Another time it tagged a tool we manufactured as being “sized for 8-12 month olds”. The really annoying thing was the application information–what make and model the parts fit–was constantly getting changed without our knowledge or input. This resulted in problems of customers ordering the wrong parts when they trusted Amazon’s fitment information from the database instead of reading the product description. We had to have an employee frequently double-check and verify Amazon listings just to catch mistakes which Amazon created. We never had these issues with our in-house webstore or with Ebay.
It sounds like it’s only gotten worse. I am very glad not to have to deal with that. And speaking of which: USPS’s service has also been getting much worse in the last few years. Very often a package will be ‘out for delivery’ yet never arrives that day. Then some lie is entered into the tracking system to cover up the delay. Instead of simply and respectably admitting “we’re running late, sorry” the system will instead offer some nonsense excuse about how the road was blocked, a dangerous animal was present, severe weather… Shops very often get blamed for delays caused by the shipping company. I am quite glad that I am not having to field ever-increasing customer complaints about shipping problems beyond my control, especially not when they involve outright lies.
Stuart
I still shop at Amazon, and I will link to them, but with far less frequency.
Should that ever change, I have ways to remove 17 years worth of links.
Scott K
Yes- Amazon seems to be entirely focused on packing and shipping as quickly as possible. I don’t have any inside information, but it seems as though they are able to shift the burden when it comes to a refund to either the manufacturer or shipper and absolve themselves of most responsibility. There was once a time when books came shrink wrapped to a piece of cardboard so they didn’t get damaged in shipped.
I’ve had tons of great experiences with Target shipping- many liquids come with either an easily removable sticker over the lid or items individually bagged and zip tied to avoid leaks.
mark w
Ever tried ULINE? or Grainger?
In my metal processing related manufacturing plants we tend to use grainger or ULINE + mcmaster. Mcmasters great too but for certain stuff. fastenal sucks, msc I didn’t deal with in Midwest. ULINE is the best to deal with by far but little more expensive. Grainger hits the sweet spot of having items, decently reliable product photos + desc’s, and good issue resolution + shipping in my line of work.
KokoTheTalkingApe
I buy that stuff in person too. I think shipping that kind of thing from a lower elevation to Denver makes them more likely to leak. Sealed bags like potato chips will be puffed out like a football.
PB
In store. I buy as little a container as possible.
Threadlocker has a limited shelf life so you definitely want unopened and as new as possible.
It is best to throw it away after at most a year after being opened.
If you need to use some and the container isn’t freshly opened, use some the day before on a test screw. Just leave the screw on the table. If the threadlocker doesn’t cure overnight and it is still wet, get new threadlocker.
Fresh threadlocker will cure within an hour.
Alexk
Thanks for that information.
Stuart
Agreed. Lots of adhesives and chemicals have shelf lives. Sometimes I ignore it, such as with solder, and other times, such as with threadlocker, I buy regularly.
We had to wrap one of my kids’ workbooks in duct tape, and it was a horribly messy experience. I bought a new roll the other day at Home Depot.
Eric
Most threadlockers cure anaerobically when squeezed between the threads. It might dry out but that’s not a great indicator of whether it will work or not.
Torque Test Channel on Youtube found that expired threadlocker (Permatex brand blue, specifically) increased the amount of bolt stretch at a specific applied torque. A fresh tube didn’t impact the bolt stretch at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Y3aB94lwU&t=679s
EBT
I had bought a 10 pack of Waterloo black-cherry flavored seltzer. Put in kitchen cabinet drawer where I usually have cans of beverages. Forgot about them.
About six months later, I realize I have these and grab a can. Its empty! The aluminum is so thin, it just leaked out. No traces as it was not “sugary” beverage. Another found empty. Rest were barely full. And on opening, glad I was over a sink.
Yet, Walmart shipped me some bathroom items (shampoo, conditioners, mouthrinse) and all were in plastic bags with sealed openings. The shampoo had tape over the cap, as did the mouth rinse.
I guess its up to the supplier/shipper…
Tim B.
Amazon, I’ve had that problem with many items (including a tube of thermal epoxy… boy did that make a mess).
Oddly, I’ve also had that same problem of a leaky threadlocker bottle from McMaster-Carr, too! (in fact, the same 222MS – we use quite a bit of it where I work, so we order it in the LARGE bottle – never ceases to amaze me how expensive that stuff is).
Luckily, in both cases, they’ve been quick to refund/replace/re-ship… just a bit frustrating. I’ve also noticed that sometimes now, Amazon even puts an additional layer of tape of containers of liquid (specifically, I’ve seen it on soap, cosmetics, and even some chemical tubes.
Rick
Y’all make me feel dirty for defending Amazon, but my experience has been that their packaging of potentially messy items has actually improved over the years.
Returns cost Amazon money when customers receive products that are damaged out of the box. So Amazon is almost certainly continually improving the analysis of what they should do to prevent problems recurring.
So, for example, any liquid laundry detergent I buy from Amazon now has extra “Gripper” stickers to prevent leakage. That definitely wasn’t the case in the past.
And their algorithms for packing have also improved. My experience is that I no longer receive a few small items in a ridiculously large box, so there is less room for those items to fly around within the box.
That said, I also skim the negative reviews for a product I am considering ordering from Amazon. Customers aren’t shy about posting negative comments about problems with packaging and delivery, so steer clear of such products.
Matt_T
Agreed packaging of potential leakers, and breakable items, is one of the few things Amazon has improved. I’ve gone from spending thousands per year with them down to a few hundred because of higher prices and slower shipping but at least what I still order generally arrives intact LOL.
MM
You may be right that Amazon is getting better, as I buy liquids from them so rarely that I don’t have enough data points on spills to say one way or another. But I do know this regarding my recent experience with the Glucose syrup I tried to buy:
-Many customers have reported the exact same problem via online reviews, but nothing seems to have been done about it. I doubt Amazon reads the reviews.
-When I tried to contact Amazon about this issue it was very easy to get a refund. However, it was extremely difficult to actually tell amazon about what the problem was so that they can try to fix it.
It is clear to me that Amazon has set up their site to make customer service simple–it was quick and easy for me to get my refund–however it is also clear that they don’t really want feedback. They do want “reviews” because that drives user engagement and therefore sales, but they don’t seem to want practical feedback for their business practices because it is so hard to give that feedback. If Amazon wanted to improve their process then they’d have made a system where they’d receive feedback to do so, the same way they made a process to make returns so easy.
Just to be clear, I’m still happy to buy from Amazon as a retail customer, but I am very glad that my business income is in no way tied to Amazon anymore, and I am not selling through them.
Rick
You are probably correct that Amazon competely ignores specific negative comments from customers. But I’m confident that they are very interested in the reason that a customer is returning an item. (To be clear, that is not because they are a caring company, but only because they want to make as much money as possible.)
We are all required to select a reason for returning an item to Amazon. That’s baked into their return system: you can’t return an item without giving a reason. And sometimes there is also a comment box that allows additional feedback, depending on the reason for the return.
Amazon may or may not “read” that additional information (it’s probably processed by AI software rather than read by a human), but I’m confident that Amazon has a complete breakdown of all reasons for return for every item they supply. And I’m guessing that an item with an unacceptable rate of return due to delivery issues will either trigger changes in their delivery process, or they will simply stop supplying the item altogether.
MM
Amazon does ask for the reason for the return, it is possible to state the product arrived damaged. But there is no way to specify *why*. And while it is sometimes possible to talk about shipping issues in the product reviews, that is theoretically against policy.
I do agree with that last part somewhat. A *product* review is not the same thing as a review of a retailer, shipping experience, etc. It should be limited to the product only. Shipping problems are sometimes the retailers fault, as in the case of improper packaging. But they are sometimes the customer’s fault and most often the shipping company’s (UPS, fedex, etc). It should be possible to rate each separately. Ebay does this when it asks you to rate communication, shipping speed, description, etc.
I get the impression that Amazon’s return policy is mostly about catching fraud and abuse.
Stuart
It depends on the product. Household goods they sell 10K of every month? Yes, they’ll know what works to avoid spillage. A bottle of whatever else that they sell 50 of? Will arrive with no cushioning in a thin plastic bag.
Rick
I don’t have personal experience of that scenario but it’s very plausible, and makes sense from a business perspective.
If an item has 10k sales/month where (say) 5% of those sales are being returned due to delivery or packaging issues, then Amazon will probably address the issue.
But if an item has only 50 sales/month where 5% of those sales are being returned due to delivery/packaging issues, then it may not be worth their time and trouble to do anything at all.
Instead, Amazon will just eat the cost of the handful of returns. But they may still stop supplying the item altogether once returns eventually reach a certain cumulative threshold.
Chris
The seal between the white/translucent nozzle and the bottle itself can become damaged, although I have no clue how that actually happens. I’m assuming pressure inside the bottle during big summer temperature swings (in the shipping process) probably isn’t enough to rupture the seal, but I’m not sure.
I’ve ordered plenty of Loctite products from RS Hughes (and structural adhesives in twin pack cartridges, etc), and McMaster, and have never had a shipping issue like this.
RS Hughes does have fantastic customer service though. I use them a lot, along with McMaster, Zoro (who many don’t realize is a Grainger subsidiary), MSC, Bay Supply, EMI Supply.
I’ve used a ton of 222 over the last few decades. It’s good stuff for very small fasteners; most of our guys just call it “purple” because we don’t use much else that’s the same color.
Stuart
RS Hughes has been great, and my goto PPE. With this issue, they answered quickly, and offered quick resolution options. 100% will order from them again, although maybe not Loctite with a large glove order. This wasn’t my first order with them.