I wrote about Makita’s new XGT 40V Max cordless power tool lineup separately. Here, we’ll take a look at the XGT system alongside Makita’s 18V LXT cordless power tool system in broader context.
Makita 40V XGT and 18V Compatibility
Are Makita 40V Max XGT batteries compatible with their 18V cordless power tools or vice versa? No, they’re not; there is ZERO compatibility between Makita XGT and 18V tools and batteries.
Makita’s two 18V form factor systems are as different as Milwaukee’s M18 cordless power tool system is from Dewalt’s 60V Max FlexVolt system.
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Makita has a one-way charging adapter, and that’s it.
When we asked about why, they declined to comment.
Makita “ONE SYSTEM” Marketing
Makita has been advertising XGT as a One System solution, and provided additional details about what they mean by this.
Their argument points towards Dewalt, and how, if you want to take advantage of Dewalt’s highest performing cordless power tools, you really need to buy into two separate systems – FlexVolt and 20V Max. While FlexVolt cordless power tool batteries will power Dewalt’s 20V Max tools, it’s not going to be the most ergonomic fit for smaller tools, such as an impact driver.
Thus, Makita explains, Dewalt users really need to buy into two systems to get the best of both 20V Max and FlexVolt platforms.
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What about Milwaukee? If Milwaukee M18 cordless power tool users want to tap into the brand’s MX Fuel cordless light equipment lineup, that’s a separate cordless system they need to buy into. You cannot get everything from one system.
Frankly, I don’t agree with Makita’s analogy, and not only that, nothing in Makita’s XGT lineup looks to match up with what Milwaukee offers in their MX Fuel lineup, at least not at launch. For example, where’s Makita’s cordless demolition breaker? Are Makita XGT and their 18V form-factor batteries really going to match up against Milwaukee’s MX Fuel line of cordless equipment?
Makita says that XGT will outpower, outsmart, and outlast the competition, although that remains to be seen.
Makita USA has put a lot of emphasis on the “competing brands require 2 systems” messaging. I understand the point they’re trying to make, although I don’t agree with it. How are users going to fit the upcoming super-sized XGT 40V Max 5.0Ah battery onto an impact driver?
Fast forward 5 years, to when Makita will have expanded their XGT 40V Max cordless power tool system by quite a bit. At that time, there will hopefully be a healthy selection of products, and XGT might indeed be a “One System” solution.
But right now, Makita is launching XGT with a limited selection of tool categories. If you want something they don’t yet offer – and might never offer – you are going to have to buy into a completely separate lineup.
What About Makita 18V LXT?
Makita insists that they will continue to launch new products for their 18V LXT cordless power tool system.
But, what if you want any of the new features being touted about the XGT 40V Max platform? It does not look like these benefits will come to the 18V lineup.
If a Makita 18V or 18V X2 cordless power tool users wants higher-powered or more featured tools, or something that’s unique to the XGT lineup, what options will be available to them, other then having to buy into a completely separate system?
Makita 18V and 40V Max XGT cordless systems are not compatible with each other, with the only cross-platform option being a one-way charging adapter.
Makita recently launched a new 18V cordless hammer drill, model XPH14. We cautioned that you should wait on buying it, and for good reason.
Despite being launched after the XGT 40V Max brushless drill and hammer drill launched overseas, the latest 18V LXT flagship drill does not include Makita’s AFT active feedback-sensing safety tech.
Makita’s XGT 40V Max drill (GFD01D) and hammer drill (GPH01D) deliver the same 1,250 in-lbs of max torque as the 18V XPH14. The XGT’s motors will turn off when binding occurs, and the LXT’s motors will not.
This AFT tech will not be included in Makita’s XGT compact cordless drills. Still, is there a reason their new high torque 18V LXT hammer drills don’t feature this anti-kickback safety feature?
Read Also: Flex Brushless Drill will Feature Anti-Kickback Tech and 1400 in-lbs max torque
Makita strongly emphasizes that they will continue to support the 18V LXT system. At this time, there is no reason to contradict that, but it’s also not a good idea to pretend the 18V and 40V Max XGT systems will see similar advancements over the next few years. If there are already differences in product features now, there’s no reason to assume this isn’t the pattern Makita will follow.
Until Makita’s roadmap is clear and we see the paths the two systems take, neither of Makita’s main cordless lines are truly “One System” options.
Can You Upgrade from Makita 18V LXT?
When Dewalt came out with their FlexVolt system, users knew that the 60V Max batteries would be backwards-compatible with their 20V Max tools. Now, we also have Dewalt 20V Max tools that can deliver a power boost when powered by FlexVolt batteries.
See Also: Dewalt Power Detect | Dewalt FlexVolt Advantage
Makita 18V XGT users do not have that same benefit. There’s an XGT charger to 18V battery adapter accessory, and that’s it. In other words, at this time there is no upgrade path.
Because of this, XGT 40V Max (and 40V Max X2 or 80V Max) has to be treated as an entirely new cordless system.
When Dewalt launched FlexVolt, it was a new higher powered cordless tool system that appealed to all users, and it also provided benefits and conveniences to existing 20V Max users.
Milwaukee has stuck with M18 for their handheld power tools and construction, automotive, and trades-specific tools, so that one battery interface can be used throughout.
Even Bosch, with their new oddly-named Profactor tools, ensured their higher powered tools are compatible with batteries that can also power most of their other 18V cordless tools, except for their 12Ah battery that’s exclusive to the new lineup.
Makita 40V Max XGT is not an upgrade choice, it’s an entirely new and different system.
We’re at that awkward stage where we don’t yet know what will happen. Is Makita’s 18V LXT system a dead-end? Makita will need to show that they intend to support it.
Dewalt launched their new 20V Max Li-ion cordless power tool system 10 years ago, and they did so without any adapter solution for existing 18V users. There was a lot of grumbling about this over the years, and it took Dewalt 4 years to come out with a cross-platform battery adapter. You can still buy Dewalt 18V batteries today, but the lineup has been largely discontinued and expansion has stopped years ago. At the time, Dewalt also said they would continue to support their 18V system.
Makita is going to have to make a very compelling case for their 40V Max XGT lineup. And, if there are any advantages, how long until competitors catch up?
Make no mistake, it was probably the right choice for Makita to start a new cordless platform from scratch. Their 18V LXT lineup seems to have reached its limits, and the XGT platform will allow the brand to offer solutions that currently aren’t possible with their 18V system. This isn’t inherently because of the 40V Max voltage – I don’t think – but because the new interface and tools are designed with modern needs and battery capabilities in mind.
We’ll have to see what happens.
In the meantime, you can upgrade from 18V LXT to 40V Max XGT, but you’ll find a lot of tools missing, and you’ll also have to buy everything new. If you’re going to have to do that – buy into a completely separate system, why XGT over competing options?
40V Max XGT Batteries Compared to Other Brands’ Systems
Makita has not addressed this.
Consider Milwaukee’s M18 12.Ah battery pack, which on paper has 18V x 12Ah = 216 watt-hours of energy storage. Now consider Makita’s 40V Max XGT 2.5Ah battery, with its 36V x 2.5Ah = 90 watt-hours (based on nominal voltage) rating.
Makita has a 4.0Ah (144 watt-hours) battery also launching, and a 5.0Ah battery (180 watt-hours) on deck.
Consider Milwaukee’s higher capacity MX Fuel battery – it’s rated at 72V and 6.0Ah, for 432 watt-hours of energy. If you take two of Makita’s 40V Max XGT batteries in an 80V Max configuration, and even if you consider their on-deck 5.0Ah batteries, that’s 36V (nominal) x 2 x 5.0Ah, or 360 watt-hours.
As an aside, Makita’s 40V Max XGT 5.0Ah battery pack is believed to have 20 Li-ion cells, whereas their 2.5Ah and 4.0Ah batteries are believed to have 10 Li-ion cells.
Competing brands’ 18V 12Ah batteries utilize 4.0Ah battery cells, likely similar to the 4.0Ah cells Makita is using in their 40V Max XGT batteries.
Milwaukee, Bosch, and Dewalt step up to 3-rows of cells, for 15 cells total, in their largest 18V-sized 12.0Ah batteries. There’s the potential to go to 5.0Ah cells in the future. (Dewalt’s 12Ah battery is their FlexVolt, spec’ed at 4.0Ah at 60V Max and 12.0Ah at 20V Max).
When talking about a Makita 80V Max XGT product, it is powered by 2 batteries, and given what we know, that would mean 2 x 10 cells each for 20 cells total. THIS is where Makita has an advantage, similar to the advantage their 18V X2 products held for some time. Dewalt has FlexVolt 120V Max products, although they haven’t explored that potential outside of cordless miter saws, and Milwaukee has not yet pushed their products into multiple battery territory.
How Will Makita 18V and 40V Max XGT Tool Systems Coexist?
Makita says that LXT and XGT will coexist – they insist on this.
Will Home Depot, likely Makita USA’s biggest retail partner in the country, set aside shelf space for both LXT and XGT cordless power tool lines?
Will XGT indeed be a “One System” platform where users can find a broad range of cordless solutions from light to heavy duty?
If or when Makita comes out with a cordless table saw, will tools launch to both platforms? When will cordless vacs or dust extractors come to the XGT lineup? Cordless nailers?
Despite Makita’s insistence about their continued plans for the 18V LXT lineup, users don’t know what the future for LXT holds. Makita previously implied that next-gen higher capacity batteries are never coming to the 18V LXT line. It seems clear from Makita’s product differentiations that XGT will see more advanced features and tech options.
At launch, the 18V LXT tools are more affordable. Given that the Makita 40V Max XGT system maintains an 18V form factor, I would assume lot of the higher costs are likely attributed to the tools’ more advanced features.
5 years from now, will 18V LXT tools share some of the same features as the XGT lineup, or will more price-conscious options come to the XGT lineup, closely overlapping with or even replacing 18V LXT options?
For existing Makita 18V cordless power tool users, if you want any of the new XGT tech, you’re going to have to buy into and deal with TWO SYSTEMS. If you want to buy into 40V Max or 80V MAX XGT systems, what if you want a cordless jig saw, a drywall cutter, a vacuum, or a cordless ratchet? Well, you’re going to have to buy into TWO SYSTEMS.
There are some tool categories where the XGT system doesn’t make perfect sense, such as sub-compact cordless drills and impact drivers, and so I can’t really imagine a future where the 18V system goes away. Maybe the CXT lineup will step up to bridge the gap?
I can envision a roadmap for Makita that involves expanding upwards towards higher powered tools, and also in the direction of 18V LXT.
Maybe there might eventually be adapters if or when Makita is ready to retire the 18V LXT lineup – IF that ever happens?
It’s possible that Makita will very strongly define the boundaries between 18V LXT and 40V Max XGT systems, with just a small area of overlap in between. However, this seems contrary to their “One System” marketing. From what I can tell, XGT is a long way from being a one system cordless solutions provider, and the system would have to cannibalize a lot of what the LXT system offers before Makita’s One System philosophy can be achieved.
What Should You Do?
Makita’s XGT launch will present a lot of “I don’t know what to buy” feelings for a lot of users.
Are you a professional user who earns a living with their tools? If you have immediate needs, you’re in a tough spot. Buy what you need for the performance, features, or efficiency advantage you need now and in the foreseeable future.
For everyone else, there’s no pressure to decide anything yet, right? Also, remember what I said last week – this will be a big year for cordless power tool tech.
Is this a transitional stage where Makita winds down their 18V system? Possibly, but probably not. The 18V LXT system is large enough where Makita could not and would not flip a switch on it overnight.
At this time, I’m trying to imagine what Makita’s cordless landscape will look like 2-5 years from now. With respect to the foreseeable future, Makita’s claim about 18V and XGT 40V Max systems coexisting side by side seems to be absolutely trustworthy.
That being said, I don’t know if I would buy into either system right now as a new user. We don’t know quite where Makita’s boundary lines will separate 18V and XGT systems, and until their product roadmaps become clear, neither of Makita’s discrete systems match up to competitive offerings individually.
If you have broad tool needs and wants, and you want to go with Makita, be prepared to have to deal with two separate and incompatible tool and battery systems. This probably won’t always be the case, but it is right now. If I had to go with two separate systems, I don’t know if Makita’s 18V system would be one of those choices. If I’m being honest, I don’t know if XGT would be one of those choices either right now.
A-A-Ron
I always get a kick out of companies (not just power tool manufacturers; think video game companies, etc.) saying “of course we’re going to continue supporting our current line!” Has there ever been a company that flatly says, “Naw! No more soup for you!”?
Makita makes some seriously excellent tools and I’m sure they’re hard at work on their fourth 40v impact driver model as I type this, but I just can’t get excited about this lineup. Given it’s a small sample size, but FlexVolt and MultiVolt have set the bar pretty high in terms of backwards compatibility, to say nothing of hybrid options for battery or AC power. If Metabo HPT (whom I’m assuming has a fraction of Makita’s sales worldwide, maybe 50% at best) sees fit to incorporate such a feature, why not Makita? It isn’t like these specs are head and shoulders above what’s feasible with most 18v products.
This isn’t even getting into where the retail space will presumably come from. No way am I plunking down $400+ on a combo kit I can’t even hold.
Strange as this may sound, I actually find myself more interested in the upper-tier offerings of Flex at the moment. 100+ tools within a year’s time by the most respected name in power tool battery technology? Who knows how things will shake out, but this just seems like a similar car with a new coat of paint.
JMG
The only possible way that I could consider buying into this new battery platform would be if they would produce a tool that I could not purchase in any other current platform I have, and even then it would have to be an item that I could not absolutely live without.
I just cannot get excited, or even interested in this new line of tools. I am too invested in the platforms I have and see no cost advantage in moving away from them.
Makita LXT is one of the primary platforms I use, and will continue to for the foreseeable future. If they fail to support LXT at any point, I will shift to the other brands I use before considering their new product line. There simply is no reason to do otherwise.
Steve
I think Makita is making a big mistake in underestimating the hostility the user base has toward yet another battery platform, especially if they neglect and discontinue LXT in the future. Consumers hate it and have been up in arms with tool companies doing it for years. They want to invest in a platform they are confident in being around too. They also don’t eat another whole unique platform just b for a few high power tools if they can help it. What really makes FlexVolt work for Dewalt is the 20V compatibility, consumers don’t feel they are buying into another totally separate platform with that. Makita is playing with fire.
jon
Agreed. I have purchased a fair number of flexvolt items. I get high powered tools where I need them, and large capacity batteries for the 20V tools. 60V, 20V, and 12V can all use the same chargers. It does not feel like I am buying into a new system at all. I have very specifically stuck to dewalt because of this consideration.
Steve
BINGO! You got the nail on the head. They have 12V to 20V to 60V covered.
Frank D
I think most people are tired of buying into another battery format and style. I know I am, as a prosumer.
I have had the issue with Makita, Craftsman and Ridgid changing battery format and or type or dropping the line altogether. And, at least four brands of electronics that cost more than tools … some went belly up, some switched their battery format and style after the first few production years … where you thought you wait a few years, to make sure they’re not closing doors in two years. Nope. No spare batteries once again. Aftermarket is sketchy.
Anyhow.
I thought Makita’s 2x 18v was brilliant, as most people will have their 18v, have no real objection to buy a few fresh batteries with higher capacity when it can be used on all their tools.
Buying a new tool that requires a new battery from the same brand?
Maybe for an extra heavy duty tool that will see a ton of use without 110v power nearby.
But right now, it is just the same tools we already have in a bit higher spec and capability … which is something most people will buy corded and run an extension cord, to avoid the new battery issue. The exception could be commercial building contractors, working on large jobsites, who use a variety of lifts, platforms, … before power is established or where it is not practical. Which could be the target market. But we’ll see this pushed heavily in all directions anyhow, and I think the average user is not going to be thrilled and will while they may not care about the new models, will worry about their 18v investment.
Kentucky fan
In my opinion the Dewalt system is the best. You can have your cake and eat it too with flexvolt while still using your 15 year old brushed jigsaw off of the flexvolt batteries. For someone like me that does 90% of my professional work with grinders that is a huge deal. At home I don’t keep up with the latest and greatest woodworking tools for my hobbies so it’s nice to have that backwards compatibility.
Stuart
20V Max has only been around for 10 years. A 15 year old Dewalt jigsaw would be 18V and not compatible with FlexVolt.
Kentucky fan
I feel like you get the point. Also they do make a 20v to 18v adapter.
Stuart
I do, but since we’re talking about system incompatibilities the facts are contextually important.
The 20V Max to 18V tool adapter took more than 4 years to launch, and it does not work with FlexVolt batteries .
I do completely agree with you – I don’t know why Makita wouldn’t have engineered at least a backwards-compatible battery or adapter.
Kentucky fan
Yeah as someone that really likes makita corded tools I can’t figure their decision making out on this one. They are alienating a huge portion of their clientele whether they realize it or not.
Kent
If that 20v to 18v adapter didn’t take 4 years, I’d still be buying yellow tools. I had a bunch of them, and had replaced/rebuilt batteries several times. I ended up selling the 18v tools, and going Milwaukee.
CountyCork
In 5 years this could easily be the best system to be in. This was makitas best move they could have made for the next 20 years. If your a fan of makita how can you not like this move?
JMG
Maybe because they already had a large battery format (36v) and it flopped?
CountyCork
That’s not apples to apples. Just about all brands had that system in the past and they all flopped.
Big Richard
When they first announced the separate 40v XGT, my first thought was that they must be doing it – at least partially – for a more powerful line, either a 2x 80v or even 3x 120v line, as they already had LXT X2 for 36v. So I am really glad to see the 80v, and am excited to see what they will offer on that platform. I would love to see them dabble in light equipment (maybe a 4x setup, 2 parallel sets of 80v) just to show that you don’t need a MX Fuel type of system to get there.
BF
A couple years ago I decided to go all in on Makita’s LXT. I’m a home gamer, but do lots of renovations on rental properties. I’ve got a set of 10-12 tools split across LXT and X2.
*If* Makita does not abandon the LXT platform, I am perfectly ok with this. LXT tools have served my needs just fine, and I don’t need super-powered tools.
It basically puts Makita in a similar position as Milwaukee, although with a better 18V story, and potentially a better high power story
LXT = M18
XGT = MX Fuel (maybe in the future)
X2 lets me stay on a single platform and reach into a higher power class. I doubt I’ll buy any XGT.
If LXT gets abandoned, I’ll be rethinking my primary platform and probably switch to Milwaukee.
mla
I’m in exactly the same position and completely agree with you
Thom
Makita could have expanded the 18v X2 line and kept mostly everyone happy.. Why they did it this way is a mystery to me. I see a bunch of yellow tools in my future
Stuart
For whatever reason, they refused to release next-gen high capacity batteries to their 18V system, and this hampered their competitiveness.
XGT is more competitive, more modern, but users have to start from scratch, and if you’re starting from scratch you can invest in any platform.
Gordon
From my understanding the reason was that some of the older X2 tools would not be able to use the new batteries.
But That would only really make sense if the 40v batteries were using the new cells. That’s actually the only thing disappointing me about the XGT line. If (big if) XGT is to overtake LXT in the next 10 years, I would want it to be on the new cell platform.
Doresoom
If Makita wanted XGT to be seen as an MX FUEL competitor, they should have at least released ONE tool at the start that can’t be run off of their 18V LXT X2 platform. Because right now all these tools seem like they’re redundant and don’t give users a concrete reason to adopt a new platform. They also made a HUGE mistake by announcing the NA debut on April Fools day…
Ben
I don’t understand how they’re comparing XGT and MX FUEL. MX FUEL is basically a competitor for gas tools, not impact drivers and circular saws. Just two different worlds.
Robert
36v 4.5”/5” grinder. ‘nuff said.
The x2 LXT 7/9” grinders are ridiculous.
The XGT ones aren’t. Soon they’ll bring the 36v 6.5” circ saw and the 36v metal saws. I try to rely on LXT, but I don’t mind making an exception for some cordless Hitachi, Mafell, Fein and Festool products. If I want that Makita grinder, I’m in.
Soon it’s the OPE stuff. 72v chainsaws and blowers.
I’m not sure why anyone would have trouble choosing between Milwaukee and Makita. They’re expansive, yes, but they get real deep into their niches. If one brand serves you, the other probably won’t. They niche so deep, comparing them is like comparing Lie Nielsen to Klein once you get past the basics.
If LXT serves you, eventually XGT will too. LXT users have been spoiled for so long having one battery for 12v sized, 18v and 36v powered tools, so it seems like the end of the world when it really isn’t.
db11
Stuart, what is it with you and Makita? Have you ever had a Makita post that didn’t show a persistently negative tone? I don’t know what’s behind it, but it causes you to produce some of your worst takes.
Do you seriously think that LXT is going to go away? A 250 tool+ lineup? That there is even the slightest question of that?
As for user hostility to a new platform, they are NOT obsoleting their existing LXT platform, they are simply adding a new option for higher-draw cordless tools — and to allow them to go deeper into previously corded-only options (e.g. announced-but-not-yet-released 40v x2 XGT 20 lb demo hammer / 2″ rotary hammer)
The other advantage over 18v x2 is where the dual battery becomes obstructive to ergonomics and maneuverability (7″ / 9″ grinders and reciprocating saw for instance).
It’s just like having 12v and 18v lines: there’s a lot of overlap and redundancy (especially when comparing the 12V to 18v compact models), but that’s so that users that have narrower needs can stay in one line.
If you cover a broad range of use cases you always needed more than one line.
To me, if I were starting from scratch now, I would stay with Makita (due to the best balance of reliability / ergonomics / smooth power / tool variety), but instead of going 12v for compact tools / 18v for the rest, I would have the bulk of my tools in 18v LXT compact / std / x2. If and when then come out with a 40v (x2?) XGT table saw, then I’ll add that – plus the new XGT 8 1/2″ mitre saw as my first entries into the new line.
For anyone genuinely interested in XGT, check out Scott Brown Carpentry on YouTube for his XGT reviews. Always good to hear from someone who has an opinion based on real-world experience with the tools in question.
Pink porkchop
Thanks for this comment. The doomsayers are running wild. Somehow having a really good and deep battery platform that’s been around for 16 years means they will completely stop it when a separate system is released.
Stuart
Historically, that is what happens – when singular brands have competing cordless lines, they eventually become mutually exclusive.
Long-term, it will be difficult for Makita to sell users on separate 18V and 40V Max system, both with 18V form factor batteries, unless there is some sort of compatibility between them.
Either Makita will direct their flagship efforts towards XGT, or they will have to come out with some kind of cross-platform battery adapter.
Maybe not, but that’s what historical trends have shown. Every brand that says “the two platforms will be side by side” eventually replaces one with the other.
Consider Canon’s photography products. They announced their EF lens mount back in 1987 and have expanded the lineup since then. Now, they are shifting more towards a system of mirrorless cameras with a new RF mount. Certain EF lenses have been discontinued with no replacements announced, and they now seem to prioritize development and expansion of the RF line. Sure, both EF and RF lens mount systems will coexist, for a time, but EF has already peaked and will gradually decline.
5 years from now, how many new products XGT products will have been developed? How many of those products could have been a part of the 18V system but won’t be? What about 10 years from now?
None of what *could* happen should have much influence on purchasing decisions today, but it’s still interesting to think about the directions the company will take things.
Similar to Canon, there’s no flipping a switch when it comes to changing priority over from one system to the other. Historically, brands that did change over from one cordless interface to another incompatible one, had a fraction of the products in the market that Makita does today.
Pink porkchop
The big difference is that the 40v batteries are huge. If they switch completely then not a single hobbiest, cabinet builder, plumber, electrician, or anyone who who needs or wants smaller size and lighter weight will not buy makita again. I just bought the sub compact makita because I got tired of using the xdt16 with a 5amp battery, the sub with a 2amp is far better for everyday use.
Stuart
I like certain Makita tools, but their marketing messaging conflicts with itself here. I’m sorry that you equate pragmatism with negativity.
Makita USA is very tight-lipped about details and have always been reticent when it comes to insights. I can only work with the information made available to me.
With XGT, they went very heavy on the “One System” marketing. There were barely any specifics about any new benefits inherent to the XGT system, with repeated emphasis on “XGT will serve more needs with just one system, competing brands all need two.”
I was so excited to learn more about the XGT system, and it was terribly frustrating to simply hear about how XGT is “one system” compared to other brands’. I love details and tech deep-dives, not shallow and exaggerated marketing.
As discussed, there are 2 long-term possibilities.
1) LXT and XGT are developed side by side.
2) XGT overtakes LXT as the primary platform.
You cannot compare 18V to 40V Max to 12V and 18V since 18V batteries and tools are physically smaller and lighter. XGT tools are based on an 18V form factor.
What’s the difference between the new 18V hammer drill and the XGT hammer drill? The XGT gets advanced features, and the LXT did not.
Will there be an XGT jig saw? If not, that conflicts with Makita USA’s One System marketing claims. If there will be, will the XGT model be given more premium features that improve the user experience? If the 18V line does not get those features, or XGT gets tools that the 18V line does not, then that will conflict with Makita USA’s One System marketing claims for the 18V platform.
Unless there is some kind of compatibility – and I quite frankly don’t understand why there isn’t any cross-platform adapter – Makita’s One System marketing claims and their coexistent marketing claims cannot both be true.
I wholeheartedly believe that the 18V system isn’t going anywhere, but I also don’t think it will see the same growth and expansion efforts as the XGT system.
Does “coexist” mean that the LXT system will continue to climb upwards, or has it already peaked?
Do you think Makita will be equally competitive in both systems?
Right now, none of this makes any difference, the XGT lineup is small and limited compared to competing offerings.
5 years from now, if there’s a new flagship product, will there be equal 18V and 40V Max offerings? Right now, based on the hammer drill differences, that seems unlikely.
“Coexist” is a vague message that does not tell us much. Dewalt and Porter Cable cordless power tool systems “coexist.” Craftsman and Black & Decker cordless power tool systems “coexist.” Is that how Makita’s 18V system will “coexist” once the 40V Max XGT system has seen a few years of growth and expansion?
I won’t make any apologies for being candid. As mentioned, I see this as an awkward time with a lot of unknowns. Makita’s path won’t be clear for quite a while.
Makita’s 18V system seems to have reached its peak and technological ceiling, XGT is starting at the ground floor.
My belief is that not now, but perhaps long-term, one of two things will have to happen: either Makita will come out with a cross-platform adapter, or the XGT will expand into 18V LXT territory. From a strategic and competitive standpoint, these are their two best options. Those are the only two ways to achieve Makita’s “One System” cordless philosophy. I am open to alternate ideas if you disagree.
John
Stuart – to further your point, I didn’t see anyone mention that this type of thing has already happened with Makita’s 18V platform before (sorry if I missed someone covering this). I owned the first generation of Makita LXT tools when they launched their lithium ion platform, which came with 3 Ah batteries. As technology evolved and Milwaukee started releasing their Fuel brushless tools and upgraded to 5 Ah batteries, Makita lagged behind, as you have noted in general. When they finally started releasing 4 and 5 Ah batteries, none of them were compatible with the older LXT tools, forcing early adopters to either stick with the lower capacity batteries, or upgrade all their tools and throw the old ones in the trash (which weren’t even that old).
I can say that personally, that alienated me, and I was done with Makita. I ended up buying into the 2nd gen Milwaukee Fuel platform during one of the Home Depot holiday specials, and I’ve never looked back. I am glad I did – Milwaukee’s M18 system has largely been backward compatible throughout it’s existence – even allowing the lithium ion batteries to be used on their older 18V tools. And as they’ve grown the platform, they have focused on ways to maximize the power output of the 18V platform with options like the 12 Ah batteries to protect their customers’ investment, rather than launch new systems and tell their users they need to buy into all new platforms. They even offer free upgrades or adapters for older tools that physically can’t fit the new larger batteries.
I think it’s fine to debate the performance merits of each manufacturer, but this is personally why I’m locked into Milwaukee’s system and I’m glad I made that decision. For most users, you want to be replacing tools because you burned them out after years of good use, not because the manufacturer abandoned the platform due to poor forward planning. In my opinion, Makita has clearly suffered from poor planning, and I’m sure I am not the only one who walked away because of it.
Stuart
That was definitely off-putting for a lot of users. I don’t recall ever getting a straight answer from Makita as to which tools were not compatible with their new batteries.
https://toolguyd.com/makita-18v-lxt-tools-and-bl1840-battery-compatibility/
Instead of answering my question about which LXT tools weren’t compatible with the then-new 4.0Ah batteries, they provided a marketing non-answer, and then called me up on the phone screaming about how I ended my email with “cheers.”
Pink porkchop
Ten seconds and a utility knife makes the old tools compatible with the new batteries. I’m guessing makita did it as a cya but made it super simple to do. I know a lot of people running old tools on new batteries and have been for years with no issues, myself included.
Franco Calcagni
I never understood why so many people harp on this. My first 4ah battery, did not fit, so I did the knife thing, problem solved.
Since then, months or years later, I bought 6 more 4ah (at different times) and also 4 of the 5ah batteries; I NEVER had to do anything to them and they worked in all of my tools.
I got my first LXT in 2008, aside from the one 4ah, which I “fixed”, all the others play nice with all of my tools.
db11
Just to add that Tools & Stuff on YouTube also has a number of LXT vs XGT tool comparison videos.
Franco Calcagni
I have many platforms and all have pros and some cons. Overall, I have always found Makita to be a notch above the rest, and have more of their tools than their competitors.
As a big Makita fan & user, if they do as they say and continue to support LXT, that would be great and there would be many happy campers. However, I find there is a slight conflict of interests.
XGT may have the latest tech and features, but on many tools this is not a big issue. So in future, when Makita comes out with a new tool….example, say they come out with an XGT backpack leaf blower. Before XGT, this would have been an LXT 18×2 tool. Now with XGT, they might not offer it in an 18×2 version citing some nonsensical reason, when the reality is that to get more people into 40v XGT, don’t offer an LXT 36v version. Another example, an 8 1/2″ table saw. like Dewalt and Milwaukee, if they offered both 36v LXT and 40 XGT, it would cut XGT sales. By offering only 40v XGT, it forces people to go with 40v XGT, if you want Makita.
So, in future, I suspect there will no longer be any new 36v LXT, so as to not cut into 40v XGT sales. How they decide to market their 2 systems remains to be seen but I believe the scenario I just mentioned to be the way they will go, which means LXT owners will NOT get the support Makita is claiming….which sucks.
Frank D
Yep …
Stuart
It depends on the tool.
Are we talking about 40V Max XGT or 40V Max X2 for 80V Max?
Let’s say you have a cordless blower. A 40V Max tool can potentially be out-performed by an 18V X2 model, at least with respect to runtime.
40V Max 2.5Ah battery = 90 watt-hours nominal
40V Max 4.0Ah battery = 144 watt-hours nominal
18V X2 5.0Ah batteries = 180 watt-hours nominal
There will be a 40V Max 5.0Ah battery as well, and it looks to have 20 cells, and so it would essentially deliver similar battery power as 18V X2 configuration but in a single battery pack.
Potentially, even if you have 40V Max X2 for 80V Max, you can have similar battery power as an 18V X2 configuration, until you step up to XGT 4.0Ah and higher battery sizes.
To create differentiation, XGT releases might get more advanced features such as with the new XGT vs. 18V hammer drills. But will this be the trend?
Stanley Black & Decker tried this in a way. Dewalt’s compact trim router costs a little more and has variable speed control and a worklight. Porter Cable’s compact trim router costs a little less and is a single speed model. But, those were corded models, not cordless.
Franco Calcagni
My point is simple, not looking at 2 x 40v tools, but typical 1 x 40v tools (which is technically 36v). XGT had been proposed years ago but delayed by Makita. So let’s go back a few years and say they had introduced XGT then.
LXT 18×2 (36V) Tools like their circular saw, rear handle circ saw (worm style), track saw, lawnmowers, chainsaw, line trimmer…basically all the 18×2 offerings. If XGT was also available, you can be sure they would have offered them in the 40v XGT format. Then, I am not positive, but pretty sure that marketing would have dictated that in order to advance the sales of XGT, do NOT offer any equivalent 18×2 tool, forcing people wanting these tools to buy into the XGT platform.
If they go with 18×2 equivalent tools for each XGT tool, they are cutting into the XGT sales, which long term could affect XGT enough that not enough market and the XGT line could be terminated years down the road.
Consider that there have been many that have stated that the 18v LXT line has all the tools they need and do not foresee needing anything that is offered by the XGT line (myself included). Continue 18vx1 tools and eliminate all the 18vx2 tools, all of a sudden you have created a greater need for XGT tools (or a competitors equivalent, like Flevolt or HPT 36v).
I guess LXT owners are lucky that XGT did not come out years ago, and as such, the LXT line with 18v x1 + 18vx2 is a catalog of tools that is quite saturated. I believe going forward and new tool that comes out as a XGT40vx1 tool and does not exist in LXT form (Back pack leaf blower, 8 1/2″ table saw and other possible tools), possibly will not come out as a LXT 18×2 tool.
Your battery comparisons are not relevant as the XGT system is just hitting the market. I am prety sure within the next year, XGT batteries will have all the equivalent amp hour sizes offerd in the LXT line (4.0, 5.0, 6.0…etc)
I am not sure about your numbers, I have always followed the very fundamental Watt’s Law which is volts x amps = watts.
Stuart
I went back and watched the media presentation, and they do comment about XGT 40V Max tools being able to do the same as 18V X2 but with a smaller battery and more compact tool size.
1 watt is a unit of power, equivalent to 1V x 1A.
1 watt-hour is a unit of energy, equivalent to 1V x 1Ah.
At this time, there is an XGT 2.5Ah battery that is shown in most product images as the “look we maintained the 18V form factor tool and battery sizing” example, a 4.0Ah battery that appears to be built with 21700-sized cells, and a 5.0Ah battery that appears to have double the number of cells as the 2.5Ah battery. These are 3 separate form factors.
I’m sorry you feel that the battery specs aren’t relevant just because you assume larger batteries are on the horizon. Makita announced a 2.5Ah battery that’s the same size as an 18V 5Ah battery, a 4.0Ah battery that appears to be the same size as other brands’ 18V/20V Max 8Ah batteries, and a 5.0Ah battery that appears to have double the amount of cells as the 2.5Ah (and 18V 5Ah battery).
2.5Ah is the practical limit for their smallest battery. We *might* see a 3.0Ah battery, but probably not, as 18650 3.0Ah cells cannot deliver anywhere near the same continuous current draw as 2.5Ah cells.
We might see a 5.0Ah battery in the same form factor as their 4.0Ah battery, but if so, why would they bother making a much larger sized 5.0Ah battery that’s said to be coming soon?
You cannot assume we’ll see the “equivalent amp hour” sizes that are offered in the LXT line. It seems you are mistakenly making the assumption that 5.0 amp-hour in the 18V system would be equivalent to 5.0 amp-hour in the 40V Max system, and that is not correct.
Let’s say you have two identical power tools, except one is designed around an 18V battery and the other is designed around a 36V/40V Max battery.
The 18V battery is rated at 5.0Ah charge capacity, and the 40V Max battery is rated at 2.5Ah charge capacity.
Both batteries should power their respective drills with approximately the same runtime.
This is why watt-hours is a good measure of comparative energy.
18V x 5.0Ah = 90 watt-hours
36V x 2.5Ah = 90 watt-hours
Regarding 18V X2 vs. 40V Max, it is still true that it boils down to XGT tools at best matching the battery pack energy of 18V X2 tools. If given the choice, I’d prefer the 1-battery solution even if I had to swap batteries more frequently.
The upcoming XGT 5.0Ah battery looks to be close to the same size as (2) 18V 5.0Ah batteries, and so the 2.5Ah or 4.0Ah XGT batteries would be more ergonomic options. I’d think that the XGT 5.0Ah battery might be a suitable match for the X2 80V Max tools or less handheld equipment, such as miter saws or rolling vacuums. Then again, it would likely be comparable to 2x 18V batteries, and a lot of the X2 tools are bulky but manageable.
Franco Calcagni
If I had nothing and was buying into my first tool platform, yes, the 1 XGT battery would be preferable to the 2×18….but still need to consider price, weight and size before going with the XGT.
But my argument has to do with the large number of current LXT owners. Having a large investment of tools and batteries, I would hope that when a new tool comes out and is of the variety that needs more power (2×18 or 1x40v XGT), rather than a single 18v battery, that Makita would offer both an XGT and LXT (2x18v) variant. But my suspicion is that they will probably offer just the XGT variant, so as to persuade more people to go for this platform. If they were to offer an LXT 18×2 variant also, I would think that just about every LXT owner will get that rather than investing into a new XGT platform.
Randy
Where is the notion of Makita abandoning the LXT platform coming from? There is absolutely no evidence, company actions or communications to support this.
Why will the Makita LXT platform not be abandoned anytime soon?
Several reasons:
1 – Makita is a Japanese company and highly respected in the Japanese market. It is family controlled and is honored to serve Japanese industry. This is relavant because….
2 – As a general observation, Japanese people are smaller than there western counterparts. This impacts there designs, specifically around product weight and size. For example, Makita uses magnesium for many of their saw base plates to reduce weight. Also, Makita was the early adopter of the slide battery because the post style batteries made the hand grips too large for the average Japanese consumer’s hand. Makita’s 12V and 14.4V (same 18v tools in 14.4v) product lines are robust and have strong appeal in the Japanese market. The Makita XGT 40V line will be heavy and thus avoided by many Japanese consumers for that reason alone. The LXT 18V line will remain a popular and the predominate choice. Thus, the LXT line will remain in production and receive continued expansion and support.
3 – Price point. I own many Makita products that are not available in the US. Why? Price point. In a direct personal conversation with the most senior person at Makita, initials MG, i was told the US market is both extremely competitive and very price sensitive. Complete product lines, such as there electric pressure washer, are not available in the US due to the price point. Other products are withheld until volumes are increased to reduce unit wholesale cost. For some products, this volume is not achieved, hence not introduced to the US market. (The LXT 18v metal cutting miter saw comes to mind). The XGT 40V line is at a higher price point, with expensive batteries.
Therefore, the XGT line will be positioned as a cordless PLATFORM EXTENSION and not a LXT platform SUBSTITUTION. The XGT products will be targeted to the heavy user and will not include featured down DIY variants. Any less power demanding products that may be offer in 40v for convenience, like a flashlight, will be born as a 18V LXT product first, then adapted to 40V. Just like the 14.4v products are 18V products with a different housing to support a 14.4V battery. This can be confirmed by comparing the 14.4V and 18V illustrated parts listings.
4-Practicality. Many 18V products appeal would diminish with the size and weight of the 40V platform. Quick to mind tools include: cutout tool, flashlights, biscuit joiner, caulk gun, drywall cutout saw, drywall screw gun, etc.
5- History. Some background. Up until just a couple years ago, Makita still manufactured replacement batteries for their 9.6V product line from 1985. The chargers and some parts are still available form Makita.
The LXT line started around 2006 and still uses the same firm factor batteries. 3 of the 4 Makita batteries I have from my initial 2006 LXT kit are still in service. The 4th does not hold a full charge for extended periods, so I put a big yellow band around it and only use it in the LED flashlight or in a USB adapter to charge the phone when tethered to the Bluetooth speaker.
As a result, Makita will not abandon the LXT line. Some of the lines or products that people refer to as abandon, are not abandon at all, they are just not available in the US. Why? Again, the US is a competitive market and consumers are price sensitive (and brand switcher). Mass marketers fail to pick up or drop the product. This probably partially explains why other brands global product availability, like Bosch, are slow to migrate products to the US.
In summary, Makita LXT 18V platform is not going anywhere but forward. Consumer demand will support sales, sales revenue will support product line funding, product line funding will support product line expansion and, continuous support and improvement.
Final note: I understand that Makita is considering, or may have a available in other markets an adapter to allow a 40v tool to use 2x 18V batteries.
Stuart
For Makita’s “one system” philosophy to be accurate and competitive, XGT will have to expand in both directions.
If users would have to buy into both systems to get compact tools, modern features, and higher performance, it’s going to drive many of them away towards other systems that can cover all of the same ground with a single battery form factor.
For Makita’s One System claims to become true, XGT will have to cannibalize their 18V system a bit. Once that happens, where will it stop? Jig saws? Ratchets? Vacuums?
CountyCork
I think their one system is for heavy duty applications only from the marketing. I think the plan is to coexist with 18v. Do you have inside info that would indicate otherwise?
Stuart
Makita product managers emphasized the “one system” philosophy where you can have the same battery power your heavy duty tools and your lighter everyday tools.
They specifically discussed how with Milwaukee and Dewalt you need two systems to cover the full spectrum, and that with Makita you only need one system.
So, they have two “one system” platforms right now, with neither fulfilling that claim very well. What will be the case in 5 years?
There’s the possibility there will be one of everything in each platform, but that has its own downsides. Look at their heavy duty drills. XGT has anti-kickback, LXT does not. If you’re an 18V user, it means having to buy into a completely new system.
Metabo HPT has the right idea. You have 18V tools and 36V tools, and a single MultiVolt battery can power them all. This is what Makita should have done with XGT.
Rob
Stuart, you keep waxing poetic about that anti kickback system, but on a cordless drill that stops on a dime, I’m not sure anybody really asked for it.
Stuart
Then why did they bother putting it into the XGTs?
This should be a must-have on max torque drills over 1000 in-lbs.
If you don’t have a rock-solid grip on a high-powered drill, and it jams, it can counter-rotate with enough force to really hurt your wrists, or hurt you in other ways.
Most drills “stop on a dime” but the damage is done before you can take your finger off the trigger.
I see the anti-kickback as a potential predictor of how Makita might treat the two systems. It’s one of the few indicators we have until we can see how things develop over the next few months or years.
chip hershberger
I started with Dewalt 18v in 2004 because of there available impact and jigsaw,maybe other companies offered them and I didn’t know.
Fencing is a much more cordless centric industry than most,since a generator and/or 1000 ft extension cords are not much fun to use on the daily.
I even bought into 36v for the first 7 1/4 circular saw,but it was poorly supported with only about 7 tools ever produced.
2015 m18 offered a 7 1/4 circular saw , and Dewalt was changing to 20v with no adapter (available then).
So I sold the approximately 30 tools and 15 batteries and switched to m18.
I haven’t bought nor will buy a Dewalt again.
I also didn’t go through Milwaukee’s battery change or I probably would have had issues with them as well.
In this day and age it’s really hard to only run one battery system .
I’ve since added Ridgid vacuum, and Ryobi 23g pinner in 18v.
My primary tools are m12.
Also about #10 x2 tools which work great,but only lack bigger batteries.
Perry
I’ve been on the makita bandwagon since around 2002. The lithium changeover was not a huge deal, because other brands had already changed over, so it was expected. The STAR batteries were kind of a pain, but not huge. The old 24(?) Volt system was a non-starter, and then the X2 came on the scene and I thought “finally they’re giving us some high power options!”
But nope. At least not many.
Now they’re going to a whole new platform, and the first thing they did was create competition to their own existing line.
I’m just about done with makita, when their major competitors have deeper options for high power compatibility.
Toolman Nick
The fact that the first tools they’re bringing to the market are basically replicas of their 18 volt line should tell you everything you need to know about the future. There’s just no need for two lines running side by side when the battery form factors are so similar. I think the world is ready for 40/36 volt tools to become the new standard for power, while the 12 volt format will still be there to accommodate the small form factor.
Therefore 18 volt format is basically redundant and no company is going to allocate R&D resources to maintain a redundant line of tools, let alone TWO redundant lines since Makita also has the 18×2. I believe the 18 volt format will be phased out over the next 10 years across all brands, so Makita 18v and Milwaukee m18 are all living on borrowed time. I just hope Milwaukee has more sense than Makita and follows Dewalt’s and Metabo’s foot steps when they introduce a new format. Cross-compatibility between old tools and new batteries is a must. Makita is basically off my list for cordless solutions. I will never support such anti-consumer practices. Their corded tools are still the best.
Rem
I appreciate everyone’s comments and Stuarts back and forth with his audience.
I am a plumber but also do a lot of carpentry. I am disappointed the new tools will not be backwards compatible. I find that a lot of people run with two brands so I don’t find the “investment” aspect to big of an issue although again disappointing.
There’s more to the tools than just the battery so I use Makita for anything that has to do with plumbing as across the big three brands from my experience they seem to have the far superior water protection and general durability.
For everything else I landed on Milwaukee for all their early niche and wide product line.
Carpenters seem to prefer Dewalt and toss them around quite a bit; They appear to go on sale more, so cheaper to replace after seemingly unintentionally throwing them against a wall.
I don’t see Makita abandoning their LXT line and instead marketing it as a home owner tool like the M12 series from Milwaukee. I don’t think their marketing team really has a grasp on what their doing and don’t put a lot of weight in something said that can easily be back pedaled.
Barry
What total BS from makita. If they made it compatible they’re wouldn’t be two systems as they’d be part of the same system🙄 I’ll have to buy dewalt instead which is a shame.