I recently learned about a brand new and extremely exciting modular tool box system, and a reader asked if I was talking about Makita’s. No, but it definitely looks like Makita has been working to develop a new line of tool boxes that resemble those in Milwaukee’s Packout system.
Makita has a modular tool box system already – kind of. Their existing Makita MakPac system consists of outdated Systainer-like cases, and several modern special-purpose Festool and Tanos tool boxes in Makita’s teal colorway.
Most Makita MakPac products are clunky to use, but inexpensive. They’re also smaller than construction brands’ flagship storage systems.
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The modular tool storage industry has exploded in recent years, with more tool brands entering the market with competing DIY and professional tool box systems and accessories.
It’s not surprising to learn Makita USA has been working on something new.
A patent application filed earlier this year, US20230122425A1, discusses a “Modular storage system with storage box connectivity and external box features and accessories.”
I had been under the long-time impression that Makita USA is simply a regional sales, marketing, and support arm of the Makita Corporation, which is based in Japan.
This is why it’s notable for Makita USA to be listed as the patent application assignee, rather than simply Makita.
Looking at the list of “inventors,” I recognize a couple of names as being Makita USA marketing executives.
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Marc Tappeiner is also named as one of the inventors. Mark is CEO and founder of LifestyleDesign, an independent design company that has also worked with brands such as Pelican, Coleman, Flir, CaseLogic, and many more.
There’s the temptation to ask “what does Makita USA know about designing a modular tool box system?” but – judging from some of the inventors listed in their patent application – they worked with at least one highly experienced external design firm.
There’s not a lot that we can glean from the patent application.
The description field has nearly 36,000 words, with phrasing such as:
the first box is stacked on top of the second box in a stacked configuration
and:
The means for organizing further comprises a divider removably provided in the bottom portion to divide the inner volume into plural storage sections.
From the images, Makita’s modular tool boxes look to resemble the Ryobi Link system in some ways, and Milwaukee Packout in others.
With the Milwaukee Packout tool box system, there are cleats on the bottom and recesses on the lids. Makita’s patent drawings show cleats on the lid and recesses on the bottom.
So, here’s the big question: will Makita USA launch these tool boxes? When?
This is not just concept art, but a tool box system Makita designed with the intent to launch. Still, not every product featured in a patent application will be realized.
Objectively speaking, Makita USA looks to have been struggling. Makita reported a slim profit for their North American business segment for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2022, and a bigger loss for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2023.
Makita USA raised prices 3 times between mid-2022 and mid-2023. Before that, they reconfigured numerous cordless power tool kits with less expensive lower capacity batteries, presumably in an attempt to stave off price increases.
Makita recently cut hundreds of US jobs, and according to a state government disclosure, they also closed a service center.
There has also recently been a major change in leadership. The language of the announcement doesn’t mention the reasons, suggesting to me that the new Makita USA President and CEO was installed at the behest of Makita’s corporate office.
These are indicators that things have not been going well.
Observationally, it seems that Makita has been losing promotional shelf space and visibility at Home Depot stores.
Home Depot, presumably Makita’s business retail partner, now has 5 major modular tool box systems:
- Ryobi Link
- Husky Build-Out
- Ridgid Pro Gear 2.0
- Dewalt ToughSystem 2.0
- Milwaukee Packout
Is there room for a Makita tool storage system that seems to have been designed to take on Dewalt ToughSystem and Milwaukee Packout?
Is Home Depot, as Makita USA’s customer, going to be interested in a system that competes against ToughSystem or Packout?
Ridgid, Dewalt, and Milwaukee’s storage systems offer Home Depot shoppers 3 professional storage systems at a range of price points. Where would Makita fit in here?
Logically, Home Depot would likely be most interested in tool box systems that compete against whatever Lowe’s – their top competitor – has to offer.
Would a new Makita system measurably enhance Home Depot’s tool storage offerings?
In my opinion, it’s Home Depot’s partnership with Milwaukee, and the resulting high visibility of Packout tool boxes, that helped drive the system’s success.
Every newly launched modular tool box system needs similar to build interest and drive adoption. The product has to be good, and it has to be highly visible.
There are several new modular tool storage systems launching at Lowe’s, and while some critics will argue they are “too late to market,” they serve different users and offer modern and unique features.
New tool box systems, most notably Flex Stack Pack and Klein ModBox, give shoppers a reason to visit Lowe’s stores instead of Home Depot.
Can we expect to see a modern Makita modular tool box system at Home Depot?
Tool brands don’t need to enlist the help or partnership of Home Depot or Lowe’s to succeed, although the nationwide visibility certainly helps.
Competing brands’ tool box systems already include broad offerings. On top of that, they have long product roadmaps that promise more tool boxes, storage solutions, and accessories are on the way.
Can Makita USA launch and expand their own tool box system? Yes, absolutely. Can they grow a loyal user base? Probably. Can they do this in a short amount of time? How might this change with or without Home Depot’s support as a major customer?
The Ryobi Link system has proven that high visibility alone won’t guarantee widespread adoption of a modular tool storage lineup.
Frankly, I want to see what they can do.
However, I am not optimistic.
Based on recent happenings, Makita USA has been facing challenges in selling their existing product lines. Whether this is due to internal or external factors is irrelevant.
Can they successfully design, launch, and sell us all on a modern modular tool box system?
Does Makita USA have the willingness – or permission from corporate – to spend the amount of money it would take to launch and promote their own new line of tool boxes?
How much money will it take for Makita to successfully launch a tool box system that can compete with the likes of Milwaukee Packout and Dewalt ToughSystem?
Do they have the cash for this? Is there sufficient interest from retail partners such as Home Depot? What about consumer demand?
How will Makita’s system differ from others on the market? Maybe there’s something buried in the nearly 36,000 words of legalese in the patent application description. Can you see it in the artwork?
The longer they wait, the harder it will be, and the more it will cost, for Makita USA to carve out a piece of market share in the tool box market. How long until they break even, let alone earn a profit?
Launching a new storage system would be an expensive and daunting effort, even if Makita USA does everything right.
I’d say that, knowing they brought in an experienced outside design firm to help develop the tool box system, at least going by what’s in the patent application, Makita USA has a good chance at building a quality product.
Can they pull this off?
For a successful entry into the competitive tool box market – and no MakPac doesn’t count – Makita USA would need to design a stellar product line, commit to continuous expansion, and expertly market and promote it.
Even with the most versatile designs and highest quality construction, neither of which is guaranteed, it comes down to risk.
As long-term profitability is never guaranteed, can Makita USA afford to launch a modern modular tool box system right now?
If the Makita USA was on an upwards trend, would the company have cut jobs? Would they be welcoming a new President and CEO, with no mention of whether the outgoing President left on their own volition or was ousted?
It’s difficult to say, whether this is the perfect or worst time for the company to launch a new tool box system.
I don’t think we’ll see a new Makita tool box system in the immediate future.
Makita’s North America segment has not been consistently profitable over the past few years. It doesn’t seem that they are in any position right now, to take on the significant financial risks involved in launching another brand new product line.
Jared
Does that box orientation appeal to anyone? It’s different. I’m trying to imagine whether it’s an advantage though.
I suppose you could have two boxes accessible without unpacking rather than just the top one.
harrison
One of the only real issues with Packout (and every copy cat) is that it won’t fit under a locked pickup tonneau cover unless you tilt it on its back, or disassemble your stack, and remove the handle. Mod Box has a collapsible handle to solve the handle clearance issue, but you still have to take it apart.
This Makita pack looks like it will slide into a covered truck bed with at least a second layer of mid height containers attached, which is probably enough for most every day use.
It’s tough to say how big of a deal this is, but pickup trucks (with tonneau covers) are by far the most popular vehicle for independent contractors, and as a ‘family sedan’ with the general public at large.
Rog
Makita, if you’re readings this: PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THEM ALL TEAL. Black with SUBTLE teal accents would be much more attractive. Please and thank you.
Thom
Black is boring… Packout sells well in its Milwaukee red livery, Makita will sell just as well in teal.
Michael F
It sells because there is no other option in the US. Packout does come in black with red logo for the international market. I’m never going to stop protesting that tool boxes should have color options.
Rog
Packout sells well because of the name attached to it, not because of the color.
PETE
Black…. in my location will result in the boxes being about 150 degrees.
Even the clear top boxes organizers- all my heat shrink will heat shrink by itself.
Grokew
The best color is pink. No one would dare steal your toolbox (except maybe a 5yr old girl).
Chris
Funny thought on the pink; I was on some warrants one time and all this group of locals had were pink cuffs, leg irons, belly chains, etc. and I asked about it and they said the prisoners hate them and no other department takes them/mistakenly keeps them
Michael F
A couple thoughts. For one, I really don’t like the cleats being on top of the box. It’s a nitpick, I know, but it really just looks and feels like LEGO. I can’t help but think that’s one of the reasons (along with the garish color) that the RYOBI Link system failed to gain traction.
Two, it’s obvious to me that TTI is destroying Makita USA right now. If I had to propose one single reason: TTI seems to own Home Depot. The Home Depot locations around me barely even have Makita in stock. DeWalt fares a bit better. Most of their display and stock seems to be Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi. In the US it’s simply a fact that most contractors will head to either HD or Lowes to purchase that tool they need because, well, they need it for the job today and not tomorrow so shipping isn’t usually an option. With Lowe’s expansion into Flex they probably wouldn’t pick up Makita. Where does that leave Makita?
With all that said, I just visited a Lowes today and I wanted to check out the Flex Stack Pack. I couldn’t find a single box. They did have the Klein Mod Box on display as well as a disparate collection of Craftsman and DeWalt organizers.
I’m in the process of selling every Milwaukee Packout box I own without replacing them just yet. I’m waiting to see what’s going to shake out. If I had to choose a replacement today it would be Flex Stack Pack.
Stuart
For the sake of this discussion, Ridgid and Ryobi can be considered Home Depot-exclusive house brands. If Home Depot sells you on the platform, there’s a good chance you’ll come back for more tools from the same brands. For that reason, they will always emphasize their house brands.
Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Makita are exclusive to Home Depot, but only in how the same products cannot be sold at Lowe’s. These brands’ products can also be purchased at independent retailers and other home centers.
Home Depot is the customer, and Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Makita their suppliers.
I’m guessing that sales figures play a part in how Home Depot determines which brands to give more promotional floor space to, but I’m sure it’s more complicated than that.
What you say here sounds more like an excuse than a reason:
A few years ago, Waterloo complained about unfair competition from imported tool storage products at subsidized pricing, and the FTC published transcripts with commentary and arguments about the issue. Competing storage product makers argued that subsidized imports weren’t the problem, and that Waterloo had itself to blame for losing sales and market share, for failing to innovate.
Michael F
I think my comment maybe wasn’t as clear as it could have been. I don’t think there is one single reason that TTI is “winning” in the market over Makita USA. Obviously pricing, Milwaukee’s focus on trade specific tools, and some serious marketing and product missteps by Makita USA are all also serious factors. My opinion is just that the single largest factor of their loss in market share is and will continue to be that the average buyer (the ones not even on tool blogs) will buy tools in person at the two big box stores and Makita has very little presence.
Did Home Depot give Makita less space because they weren’t selling? Possibly. However, as I’m actually very familiar with the “relationship” between TTI and Home Depot, I suspect it was simply a strategic decision based on a number of factors of which current sales was probably only one. Home Depot has found themselves in a position where they need to satisfy TTI and not the other way around.
Stuart
TTI: “For the year ended December 31, 2022… (i) the Group’s largest customer and five largest customers accounted for approximately 47.8% and 58.3% respectively of the Group’s total revenue”
The largest customer – presumably Home Depot – contributes 47.8% of TTI’s total revenue.
The next four largest customers contribute a combined 10.5% of the total revenue.
TTI had $13.3 Billion in revenue in 2022. 47.8% of that is $6.34 Billion in revenue from their biggest customer.
Home Depot had revenue of $157 billion in 2022. How many sales of TTI-made products could Home Depot have sold in 2022?
If we say everything was sold with a 100% markup with no remaining inventory leftover, that would be what, a hypothetical $12.7 billion in sales from TTI-made products? This is a gross overestimate for the sake of discussion.
The companies seem to have a mutually beneficial partnership. I couldn’t say if you’re right or not, but without clear examples or indicators, I’d find it hard to believe Home Depot would seek to satisfy TTI more than TTI would seek to satisfy Home Depot.
Michael F
Stuart, I get what you’re saying and I even agree that your point is a good one. This is, by far, my favorite blog overall that I frequent and miles ahead my favorite tool blog. However, I really feel like you’re missing the forest for the trees here.
I’ve had connections with many entry-level TTI reps as well as TTI mid/upper level management and have some small insight into their relationship with Home Depot. The relationship is not well described as one of supplier and consumer. Consider:
– TTI reps regularly have a store presence in Home Depot
– TTI reps setup, groom, and organize the Home Depot displays for Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi
– TTI reps ensure the batteries on display tools are charged
– TTI reps regularly groom the return backlog at local Home Depot (I’ve been the recipient of many such returned tools as gifts)
– TTI reps regularly put on DIY workshops at Home Depot where they display only TTI brand tools
As I understood it at the time, Home Depot even had quite a bit of influence over the product development and roadmap of the 3 major TTI brands sold in their stores. While it makes complete sense for HD to have input into the product development of their in-house brands, obviously that bleeds over into Milwaukee as well.
Understanding just how “close” the relationship between the two companies has gotten helps one to see that TTI is better understood as something like a power tool contractor for Home Depot. It’s common for large companies to contract things like engineering and software development out to other more capable firms with experience in those areas. When you view the relationship through that lens it starts to make sense that even the huge power house of Stanley Black & Decker is losing display space in Home Depot to TTI brands.
On the other hand, even if you want to discuss revenue figures, can you really say that Home Depot doesn’t make secondary and tertiary sales from customers who are shopping at Home Depot in the first place because they are already invested in one of the big 3 TTI brands? I would find that difficult to believe. I think the success of Milwaukee, Ryobi, and Ridgid is directly tied to the strategic interests of Home Depot in ways that the revenue figures can’t completely show.
Stuart
Perhaps, but that’s still very different from:
Can you provide any examples or observations where Home Depot might have been acting to satisfy Milwaukee Tool or TTI North America (Ryobi/Ridgid)?
Makita USA launched a line of work gloves less than a year and a half ago. Search for “Makita Work Gloves” on Home Depot’s website, and you’ll find it says: Sorry, there are no products available online or in your local store.” Why? HD carries a wide range of work gloves, well beyond just Milwaukee’s. Why are there no Makita work gloves in Home Depot’s online store? Is TTI to blame for that too?
You’re saying that Home Depot and Milwaukee have a special retail partnership. This is true. But Makita and Home Depot had a special partnership too. The three companies were collectively sued because of this 10 years ago.
What I’m saying is that Makita’s lower visibility at Home Depot shouldn’t be blamed on Milwaukee.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Let’s say you start visiting a different channel more frequently. Is it because:
A) The other channel offers a lot of content more suited to your ongoing needs and interests?
or
B) ToolGuyd content is less suited to your ongoing needs and interests?
These are not mutually exclusive. A) might lead to your visiting and reading the other site/channel more. B) might lead to your visiting and reading my site/channel less.
I have zero control over A). Regarding B), while I don’t have full control over your needs and interests, I have full control over my content and can adjust a little to better satisfy your needs and interests.
My argument isn’t that Home Depot doesn’t have a special relationship with Milwaukee Tool, Ryobi, and Ridgid, but that Makita is responsible for their own visibility and appeal.
Maybe there were external factors, such as pandemic-related supply shortages leading to lost promotional space that they never regained.
Makita can do little about Home Depot’s relationship with TTI brands. What I’m saying is that I don’t believe this could be the sole reason Makita is given less promotional space and visibility during the holiday seasons and throughout the year.
Eliot Truelove
I don’t think it’s deliberate, but the pictures Stu chose are towards the end of the Patent and those are the prototype experimented designs they aren’t not going to use but included anyways so that they are not used by any other company.
The actual design is quite different and it clicks in from front AND back, and the internal dividers have holes and slats for various MOLLE webbing attachments, as well as external corner rail attachments for levels and other things similar to the ones designed by the Packout modding community and imitated now by Flex and Klein. There is 168 Images to the patent and the 2 Stu chose aren’t even the actual design, but the offcasts.
I’d encourage you to just scroll through the pictures yourself.
Stuart
As mentioned in the other comment, I believe what you’re seeing are small accessory cases. The images above are of full-sized tool boxes with carrying handles.
Brands’ patent applications don’t always show products in their true and final form, but “prototype experimental designs that aren’t going to be used” seems highly uncharacteristic for such artwork.
Where are you getting this information from, or are you making assumptions?
Do you have any proof the images I select are “offcasts?” How is anyone supposed to know this from a patent application with 168 images described by nearly 36,000 words?
Frank D
Flex tool storage finally showed up over the summer at our Lowes. 1 stack. Heavily zip tied together, so you can’t even check it out …
Noah
My Lowe’s is the same. One of their salesmen tried to get me to buy the one flex stack they had in stock, but I was shocked by how heavy it was. As a side note, in my area anyways, Lowe’s is like a cheap imitation of Home Depot. It’s hard to find products, lots of them are priced incorrectly on the shelves, and their selection of 2x4x8’s are all terrible. Like they should only be used for firewood. 90% of them had bark and very rounded corners. All of them were badly twisted and warped. Also covered in knots and cracking. I have two Lowe’s within 50 miles and they are both awful. I have 3 Home Depots and they are all much nicer, with a great selection of lumber and 2x4s.
Jim Felt
Sounds like several Lowe’s in my area. I just don’t understand what their regional or national managers are even thinking…
TdotW
That’s crazy to hear. I find it the exact opposite here(Buffalo -suburbs). My HD’s(#1234) are a complete sh!t show, nothing is in correct box\location on shelves(ESPECIALLY PLUMBING), the wood is round, curved & trash, garbage everywhere in the store. Help us difficult to find, if at all.
But on the other hand, Lowes(#1883) is neat, clean, & organized. The lumber is all much better, nice, straight, non-cupped 2x’s. Help is always available without searching all over. Guess it all comes down to the individual store manager to steer their store in one way or another. 👍🤷♂️🛠️
Noah
At this point Makita has nothing to lose by cashing in on the stacking toolbox craze. I for one would welcome the competition. They have the opportunity to upend packout if they do it right. But from the looks of those plans, I’m seeing clips on the side, which many of us don’t like. I’m also seeing a bottom-wheeled box which can’t be accessed when anything’s on top of it. To me that’s mind-boggling. Having an inaccessible bottom box is the biggest avoidable pain in the ass.
Stuart
I get the feeling that these aren’t the same as the newer MakPac products, which are teal-colored Festool/Tanos products with Makita labels.
Converting from Yen using today’s rates, for the year ending 3/31/2023, Makita’s North America segment had $816 million in sales revenue and a net loss of $6.11 million.
For the 3 months ending 6/30/2023, Makita’s North America segment had $171 million in sales revenue and a net loss of $21.9 million.
How much will it cost Makita USA to sell their first $5, $10, or $50 million in modular tool boxes?
For their quarter ending 6/30/23, Makita North America was their only segment to report a net loss.
I can’t knock them for being risk-adverse right now. More than 200 Makita USA associates lost their jobs in June.
Stanley Black & Decker closed their new Craftsman plant before the first products appeared in stores. Malco shuttered their Eagle Grip locking pliers operations.
Not every product launch is profitable or sustainable. How long would Makita be able to endure losses on a new line of tool storage, and how might that affect their other operations?
Robert
Understand the drawings are from a patent application, but that top illustration has me scratching my head. Seems to have mostly half “containers”. The wheels seem small for that much bulk, especially for the large box furtherest out on the bottom level. Is there a trade for which this configuration is optimized?
Jim Felt
Middle school?
Eliot Truelove
Hey Stu, its a bit disingenuous the pictures you have chosen to show and what you base your writeup on. While they are in the patent toward the end, they are experimental designs that are not going to be used but included anyways because of the research involved.
If you wrote up Milwaukee Packout in the same way and showed the pictures of the experimental designs Milwaukee had toward the end of their own patent then it would look wildly different from what Packout actually looks like and the Packout patent actually comprises of.
The pictures you listed here, other than the beginning one, are all of the same variety: different designs Makita tried and didn’t end up going with but decided to throw in anyways so other companies don’t use it.
The Makita patent lists 168 images and 30 of them at the end are a variety of different designs, some with a Ryobi Link type pattern, an x pattern, a spiked studded pattern, and various others.
The other 130 images are actually more close to a 2 way Packout design that can slide in both backwards and forwards.
I know you have your feelings about Makita which do have a lot of valid basis, but in the interest of journalistic integrity you should at least present the correct images of what the majority of the Patent and it’s descriptions actually comprises of rather than the offcasts shown toward the end that, as I’ve already said, even Milwaukee included in their Packout patents with their own prototype designs.
If Makita actually used the images you described and showed in their final design then I WOULD be disappointed as it would just look like a Ryobi Link knockoff, but that is not what the Patent realistically shows.
If you could correct it that would be appreciated.
Stuart
Disingenuous? So you’re also accusing Makita of filing artwork that doesn’t accurately represent the products they are developing?
These are Makita’s artwork and shows what a stack of their modular tool boxes would look like.
There are many dozens of images intended to depict specific features, such as the placement of hole bosses.
These images are – as I understand them – are intended to represent what a stack of Makita’s tool boxes should look like.
There are no others that show a stacked combination of tool boxes.
Patent artwork tends to be rough, there’s no indication what the final product could look like.
Nowhere in the post do I share my thoughts on the design, as patent application artwork reflects the spirit of a design and it’s constituent features and functions for the purpose of legal protections.
Still, I would anticipate that these images should accurately reflect what a stack of tool boxes should look like, and how they latch together.
There are also dovetail designs and X’s that don’t look to latch together at all, or are scaled for accessory cases rather than power tool sized cases comparable to Packout, ToughSystem, and other systems’ primary cases.
The larger cleat system looks to be the primary mode of attachment for the standard-size tool boxes.
I’d be interested if you wish to translate the nearly 36,000 words in the features description, and pick a couple of the other images to analyze from an engineering point of view.
I have seen other brands working on MOLLE-compatible dividers boards. It’s neat, but discussion of such is moot until there’s a physical product to discuss.
The patent application is full of legalese, and the pictographic equivalent.
Images 86A and 86B have sliding dovetails, but those aren’t full-size tool boxes. For instance, there are no handles. To me, that suggests it’s not a tool box attachment method, but for small accessory cases.
Figures 78 to 80 show an X-lock pattern, but there’s no image of how standard-size tool boxes with such a pattern could stack together.
You also missed my point entirely.
I see nothing wrong with the images I selected. If Makita goes with that design for standard size tool box connections, what’s the problem?
My point is that all of this might not see the light of day, for the reasons given.
Let’s role play. If I were in charge of the purse strings at Makita Japan, would I back this product launch. Yes. What about if I were in charge of the purse strings at Makita USA? I’d like to say yes, but I don’t know if I see that happening given the state they’re in right now.
If my math is correct, for the quarter ending June 30th, Makita USA spent $1.13 for every $1 in sales revenue.
How much would it cost them to sell the first $5, $10, $50 million in tool boxes? Where will that money come from, if they’re already having difficult breaking even on their existing product offerings?
Eliot Truelove
What I’m getting at is the 2 pictures you show here aren’t the primary mode of attachment shown elsewhere throughout the paten. The pictures you show are Figure 82a and 82b.
The patent literature says:
FIGS. 78A through 84C and 88A through 92B illustrate different sizes and shapes of protuberances 440 on the top and bottom surfaces 14 a, 16 a of boxes for cooperating with complementary protuberances 440 on another box stacked relative thereto. FIGS. 78A through 84C and 88A through 92B also illustrate different arrangements of protuberances 440 and density or number of protuberances 440 in these arrangements, as well as different types of edges 446 and placement of edges 446 on protuberances.
This is legalese for different examples of many different types of attachment systems shown in the patent literature, but figures 1 through 78 show a singular attachment system shown in much more detail.
I have sent you a number of the actual method of attachment pictures and the link to the patent on Facebook if you could take a look.
Stuart
78A/B looks to be a small accessory case.
79 could be a compact case or an accessory case. There’s no top, side, or front handle.
81A/B are shown above. The cases are shown with standard tool box-sized features, such as a handles and wheels.
82A/B and 83A/B are similar.
84A/B/C also doesn’t look to feature standard-size tool boxes.
87A/B show a front-to-rear-oriented Packout-type retention system which I noticed but greatly dislike the look of.
88A/B/C looks like a passive locking system that I don’t see working well for anything.
Judging the design quality is moot.
Frankly, I didn’t anticipate anyone being disappointed with the the designs.
The Link-like tabs aren’t something to be critical about – yet. Personally, I think the Ryobi Link system has a sound design, it’s the form and execution that are terrible.
JJN
Impressive amount of details, some seemingly innovative, but still based on a rolling tub concept.
https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20230122425
Mark
Good questions raised all around. Makita does need a big box nationwide distribution partner to make the investment pay off. I love Makita, but suspect they’re in a tough spot in the US. I think there is a case to be made that Makita was perceived as a slightly higher quality brand for a while. But the lack of investment in the US must mean quite a loss of market share and loyalty being built for other brands. It feels like they’re falling behind mass market trends.
Would it be possible for Makita to rework their strategy? Could they reposition the brand as the step up between all the mass market big box brands and a Festool, for example? Could they be successful by spending more effort on exposure in smaller specialized material shops catering to specific trades? In southern CA, for a example, there is a Festool center with a trainer and classes built into one of our top hardwood and plywood supply houses. Could this type of strategy along with a lot of specialized training based marketing drive appeal and desire for a more “premium” brand?
MM
I don’t think Makita has any sort of quality problem when it comes to their reputation. Many tool users, including myself, remember the days when Makita’s 9.6V stick packs were the only serious game in town when it came to cordless tools. Makita tools have long been used by professionals and they have a solid reputation. Whenever I see Makita tools discussed here nobody seems to criticize their quality or performance, instead people’s comments are about how confusing the battery systems are, how it’s difficult to find specs or product comparisons, price of accessories, and availability–either on the shelf at retail stores or if the product is even available stateside.
I think Makita’s problems are not with the tools themselves, those are fine. Their problem is marketing.
Jared
The other complaint is pricing. They’re not just higher than their competition from Dewalt and Milwaukee, sometimes Makita isn’t even competitive.
There is probably a niche for power tools with a better build quality to sell at higher prices, even if they aren’t also competing with the highest “specs”. I hear Makita fans sometimes claim that this is what the brand is doing and why it’s worth spending more to get them. I’m not dismissing that.
However, Dewalt and Milwaukee aren’t building junky tools. In that context its not obvious that Makita is a step above them. Tests from sources like Torque Test Channel showing that Makita makes grinders that vibrate less than the competition helps – but I’ve yet to see any marketing from Makita emphasizing this angle (hence I kind of feel like it’s an ad hoc explanation for the price disparity, not an intentional choice reflecting Makita’s strategy).
Also, its probably easier to make a tool with less vibration if it’s also less powerful than the competition… not that I’m suggesting Makita is ALWAYS less powerful (they make a beautiful 3/4″ impact for example), but I keep that in mind with some of the test results.
I have heard some people claim that Makita’s plastic is better than Dewalt and Milwaukee. Maybe that’s true – but again, I’ve not experienced “problems” with the yellow or red plastic, so I’m not sure how much weight to give to those claims.
None of that is meant to disparage Makita’s tools. I think they ARE good quality. However, are they substantially better than Dewalt or Milwaukee?
Michael F
I think people are going to disagree heavily on whether Makita is worth the extra cost or not. It’s extremely subjective. Personally, I’m selling every Milwaukee tool and moving to Makita, which is not a very popular decision. For me, I enjoyed using my few Makita tools more than any of my Milwaukee tools. To me, the Makita tools feel like a premium tool (more like my Festool CXS 12) and Milwaukee feels like a cheap commodity tool. But to another person? They’re going to feel different. So it’s really difficult to build a market position based on “quality” unless you’ve been there for a while – like Festool.
GT
Marketing is by far and away the biggest problem has. As I understand it they’ve had the same marketing manager in place for over thirty years. There in lies the problem
Dave (not here)
Stuart, I’ve seen you going negative on Makita for a long time now. For a while, I figured there was maybe beef with not having access to insiders like a lot of other manufacturers seem to offer, but I’ve slowly come around to your way of thinking and now it’s hard to imagine why I originally theorized you had a personal grievance rather than just legitimately negative takes on a company that by all accounts seems to be trending down.
First, not providing insider access to possibly the most reputable tool blog out there (I’ve followed dozens over the years but I really only stick around here) is in itself a huge problem. While Milwaukee and others hold huge product release events for pro reviewers or provide access to back-of-office experts, it’s genuinely disconcerting for someone like you to not get that access – I’m just some internet yahoo, but you’re speaking to tens of thousands of us, so someone needs to be able to tell a coherent brand story.
Makita tools themselves seem to be all over the place – I still can’t tell you the complete difference between what I think are two non-compatible 18v lines and a 36v line that isn’t backwards-compatible with either of the former. Milwaukee’s “everything except the really hungry tools are 18v or 18vX2” and DeWalt’s “20v” or Flexvolt both make a lot more sense.
It’s frustrating to see a lot of useful product that’s never going to make it stateside. Even gimmick stuff (who is really shopping for a $1000 battery microwave?) is still frequently unobtainium here. And the “new” products that were just stale releases with different dye in the plastic turned me off.
Finally, this seems to be an aging brand, and not just in terms of product. I first found ToolGuyd maybe 10 years ago when I was doing furious research before buying into a new battery system and Makita was a serious consideration. I went with Milwaukee because of the variety of jobs a maintenance manager has, but I now have staff who love DeWalt and Ridgid too. Makita used to be all over the jobs I showed up to, but I have yet to meet someone in the trades for less than a decade who’s tied to their system today. And I’d have a hard time recommending the limited range to any of my laborers aspiring to become skilled laborers with tools of their own – there’s just so much more value and versatility with other brands these days.
So, uh, yeah – I don’t think coming to the modular box market 4 years late is going to save Makita USA…
Stuart
Over the course of 13 years, I have come to the conclusion that ToolGuyd and Makita USA have incompatible expectations about how media and PR relationships are supposed to work.
Frankness can be misconstrued as negativity, but I’d rather that than to bite my tongue too hard.
Even before my earliest communications with Makita USA, I posted this: https://toolguyd.com/why-makita-may-lose-a-circular-saw-sale/
I had to put an inordinate amount of effort to figure out one of their cordless circular saws had a brake and the other did not.
I wrote:
Nothing has changed since then. But if posted the same today, it’d be criticized as negativity or bias.
Everyone seems to forget that I’m still an opinioned tool user.
Regarding tools being all over the place, if you’re every in for a challenge, try to make sense of all their impact drivers.
Robert
No, we haven’t forgotten.
James+C
Waiting for the Makout cordless coffee maker.
BS
I’m going to make an assumption here based on this post and one of your prior posts regarding an evolutionary new modular storage system. It must be Tough built brand that’s the new player. I am actually looking forward to it if true. Tough built in the last 2ish years has really been driving home some decent and innovative products. I could see them really nailing the “packout” style line of boxes at a reasonable price point.
Jronman
The best thing Makita can do is get rights to Packout so we can have teal Packout. Packout is tried and true, and is well known in the industry at this point. Maybe they could design a few unique offerings that are Packout compatible to entice users to pick up the teal versions. Otherwise using mostly existing Packout but colored would save a ton of cost.
S
“In my opinion, it’s Home Depot’s partnership with Milwaukee, and the resulting high visibility of Packout tool boxes, that helped drive the system’s success.”
While the home depot availability has definitely been a major positive point, I feel this oversimplifies the result.
Milwaukees sales and marketing team has done an amazing job showcasing, and putting product flyers, pipeline events, and hands-on demo’s directly in front of the end users.
There’s no other tool company that we as end users have been so well informed before the product hits shelves, and as soon as it’s on shelves, keep it up to date on tool offers.
DeWalt isn’t in plumbing or electrical specific stores like Leeps or city electric supply, and it shows in their sales. Heck, I only knew of the DeWalt lawn mower a few months before it was released, but it was all tool blog rumors that DeWalt wouldn’t verify.
Makita is very much falling into some of the same pitfalls.
Stuart
Yes, but I believe the visibility helped foster adoption at a faster rate.
There was limited availability the first holiday season, and people were learning about the line and seeking the products out. Being able to touch the tool boxes in-store convinced a lot of people about the quality and features.
The pricing was a bit high. I thought Packout was great but anticipated slow sales and growth.
Absolutely.
Good product + great marketing = success
That’s my point here. Let’s automatically assume Makita has designed a good system and can build it to high quality.
Does Makita USA have great marketing?
What will it take for Makita USA to fill in the following equation?
Good product + Great marketing + Huge launch costs = success
This would be a new product category for them, and very different execution than the dated Makpac system.
Let’s pretend that Makita hired Milwaukee’s entire Packout marketing team and they set out to launch a MakStack or whatever it will be called system in the same way.
Makita USA doesn’t appear to be doing well. Can they afford the level of marketing needed to successfully launch, sell, and expand a new tool box system? How long until it becomes a profitable venture?
In the other post, readers asked if I was talking about Makita’s storage system. I really don’t know if they can afford to launch one. They seem to have had too many failures and setbacks to take on anymore financial risks.
In my opinion, visibility at Home Depot is one factor that can help reduce the risks, and accelerate customer familiarity.
It’s not the only factor that helped to drive Packout’s success, but it was still an impactful one.
harrison
Well, based on the fact that Makita USA has signed onto this patent (which seems really detailed, and basically production ready) they’re clearly willing to give it a go. I can’t imagine why they would go to such lengths only to give up, that would be insanity. They need something for storage. Maybe it won’t be marketed as well as Milwaukee, but it’ll find its way out there. You can’t market gold product if you don’t bother to make it. This is clearly a North American centric product category.
Let’s not forget that no matter how incompetent Makita USA marketing may be, Makita is still a large, independent global corporation with some resources… If every two-bit store brand with a coupe of drill kits can commission their own Packout knockoff, Makita of all companies should be able to scrape something together.
Stuart
Not every product in every patent application is marketable.
A patent application is intended to protect a company’s interests as they pursue development of a new and unique product or idea.
Even if a product isn’t guaranteed to be brought to market, companies with the resources to apply for a patent should.
It’s better for a large company to apply for a patent and not need it, than to need it and apply too late.
Securing a patent or trademark can take a lot of time, and so companies cannot or rather should not wait until they’re sure a product will be marketable and profitable.
Yes, Makita is a large global corporation with some resources. But then why did Makita have to layoff anyone in June, citing their financial condition?
According to a US Government agency (PDF, pg VII-13), SPG International merged with the Geelong Sales Company in 2007.
From a 2008 SPG catalog: “In 2007 SPG International merged with Geelong Sales Company which is a major manufacturer of tool storage products in China.”
From documentation when SPG closed down (PDF):
” Geelong Sales (Macao Commercial Offshore) Limited (“Geelong Sales”), the Debtor’s principal supplier, and a party related to the Debtor and to the Debtor’s shareholders, to whom the Debtor owed in excess of USD $4,069,566.00, demanded payment of its accounts payable prior to shipping any further parts or materials to the Debtor, and the Debtor was unable to make the payments owed to Geelong Sales;”
SPG became insolvent, and its parent company treated them as such. Rather than bailing them out, Geelong cut SPG loose and the brand shut down.
The new President at Makita USA seems to have a history of success leading Makita’s business in other regions, so maybe Corporate will be willing to incur greater expenses to get this new tool box system out the door.
You are Makita USA’s new President and CEO, and were sent there to turn things around. How inclined will you be to take big risks right out of the gate?
harrison
No, I don’t think I would be inclined to take risks, but is this really a risky product launch? These boxes are high margin items that increase your brands visibility- The customer pays YOU to wheel a mini billboard around with your brand plastered all over, then brag about it to their coworkers. It’s fantastic grass roots marketing.
I’d say the bigger risk is thinking you’d be able to market your way to profitability with shitty products, and as you say- MakPak ain’t it. LXT > XGT was a bigger risk in my opinion. I would say for better or worse, Makita needs this storage.
I think you are overestimating how much it takes to bring these boxes to market. There has got to be a reason every store brand has a modular storage system now, they are likely very profitable, even if you aren’t rivalling Packout. If this is the case, Makita would be leaving easy money on the table. It’s clear not all these storage systems will stick around forever, but Makita is still large enough to justify their own system.
I don’t know why Makita USA laid a bunch of people off. Corporations do all kinds of things in the name of profit, cutting costs being one of them.
Obviously they can’t just cut or market their way to profitability though- R&D and new products need to be a piece of the puzzle.
I keep hearing that Makita is a ‘global company that doesn’t care about the North American Market’. While they aren’t USA centric by any means, it’s ludicrous to think they would just throw in the towel on the largest and most potentially profitable market in the free world without a fight.
Yes, Makita Japan could leave Makita USA to rot on the vine, but that would also be ludicrous, they are way too large and visible of a brand. It would effect consumer confidence globally. Hiring a new CEO from successful markets is evidence they aren’t doing that yet.
You’ve highlighted for a long time that Makita USA has problems. We’re starting to see the potential pieces of a solution.
Felix
I wouldn’t call the Makita Makpac boxes outdated. Makita has blow mold inlays for nearly all their tools that fit in the Makpac boxes so the tools don’t rattle in your van. The competition doesn’t do that.
Makpac boxes are also really efficient, the competition brings in a lot of dead space inside. Makita also recently brought out more assortment boxes in the Makpac range.
The only thing Id like is sturdier hinges. But the boxes themselves are just fine. Adding strength adds more weight.
Stuart
The new assortment are good, because they’re just teal-colored Festool boxes.
I have Dewalt ToughSystem tool boxes, and they auto-latch together (1 operation) and can be separated via two latches (2 operations).
I have Milwaukee Packout tool boxes, and they require 1 operation to latch and auto-lock together, and can be separated via 1 operation.
I have MakPac Systainers. They require 4 latches to connect together, and lifting the same 4 latches to separate, for a total of 8 operations.
They’re clunky and outdated.
Bosch has/had inserts for many 12V and 18V tools, but there was low interest. Inserts seem to be more popular in Europe.
Being small doesn’t make MakPac efficient.
T-Loc is much more user-friendly in the Systainer/MakPac form factor.
Nathan
It is somewhat insane they didn’t at least try to stopgap with the T-Loc versions since they were made to be explictly backwards compatible with Gen I/MakPac containers.
In general Makita seems to be extremely wary of paying royalties for design access, possibly because of the M18 voltage issue, to the point of shooting themselves in the foot.
I can’t quite remember who had the new Makita packout patent that showed this (tools’n’stuff or voltechno), but there was a picture of sideways loading designs that was very interesting. It remains the sole untapped capability in all of these systems to load and unload individual boxes with lids via the side for quick access and replacement. Sure there are drawers, but the drawers don’t leave the stack and aside from the shopping basket design there are no containers made to fit inside there.
Stuart
Makita has to pay licensing fees to Festool’s parent company for MakPac products; if you look closely, it says on the 4-latch MakPac products that it’s licensed by TTS. The same was true for Sortimo and Bosch L-Boxx tool cases.
Maybe Makita didn’t want T-Loc tool cases due to the pricing or other reasons, or maybe the decision was made by TTS.
Eliot Truelove
The sideways designs are in the same patent Stu referenced, on the first 130 or so images of the 168 images within the patent.
This is the patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230122425A1/en
Nathan
It isn’t, or rather it isn’t in the US patent.
At 7:05 he has a screen shot of one of the Japanese patents
https://youtu.be/8_XR6-LJ_cg?si=Rr3mVlvK10Hx1r3v
Voltechno also goes into it in further detail and I remember someone else who covered this showing another one that had something looking like one of the half-size accessory boxes everyone else offers (like figure 20a in thge US patent), but could be mounted in drawer like fashion. I think they even showed variations on the theme.
Not that it matters, because I’m more certain ToughBuilt will actually exist in the next year; who knows with Makita. No announcement of even a timeline.
It’s another needlessly bad step as a company. Practically an unforced error. They could have just gone in 50/50 corporate intrest with ToughBuilt and launched effectively the same product for significantly less startup cost.
I’d like to imagine, (because I have no real numbers, and only a general understanding of what is involved) after leveraging both companies’ native logistical capabilities they’d have to pay maybe 20% of the cost to start and 40% to run afterwards.
The molds are expensive, but if you have someone willing to pay for them who also seems to be decently capable at rapid prototyping and general good design, you can make a tangible product line quickly and cheaply compared to previous processes.
They aren’t really in competing direct markets, brand positioning wise. Since ToughBuilt had a good reputation it would benefitted both in an era when Makita are being seen as too expensive and perhaps a bit too conservative. Soften the XGT shock or use it to cheaply bring people in (like Packout self packaging).
harrison
If Makpac would update to T Loc, sure. And maybe it will happen! But as it stands, MakPak is horrible.
I have one for our track saw as I figured it would integrate nicely with the rest of our Systainers from Festool, Mirka, Fien, etc… but it barely does at this point. It can only go on the bottom, and the latches hurt your finger tips if you aren’t careful.
As a space efficient box, it’s fine. As a system, its dead.
Nick
I wish they’d just get on the T-loc/Systainer 3 train. I appreciate that they integrate with my other systainers and that they offer inserts (though the inserts are near impossible to source in the US). I’m probably mostly on the systainer train because it feels the least brand-agnostic. If they go this route, I just hope they don’t pull a Metabo with their Metabox, which by all means is well built and has nice functionality, but doesn’t actually clip together with newer t-locs or even their older boxes with a metal catch presumably to avoid a patent issue.
ArmyofWon
as far as new president coming in and your conspiracy theories, the Japanese rotate the country presidents around the world to gain experience and then go back to Corporate in Japan for more career roles. This was a normal land planned departure.
Stuart
Me: “suggesting to me that the new Makita USA President and CEO was installed at the behest of Makita’s corporate office”
You: “conspiracy theories” “the Japanese rotate the country presidents around the world”
So… you’re saying the new President was not install by a corporate directive, but was… installed by a corporate directive?
You seem to be arguing that Makita Corporate brought in an experienced leader to take over the top jobs at Makita USA, so they can learn and “go back to corporate Japan for more career roles.”
Sure, that’s possible.
However, Makita USA is in pretty bad shape.
Were the recent layoffs also part of the “normal plan?”
Does a healthy company lay off workers across the board, from sales roles to factory service centers and marketing?
Makita North America has a 5-year history of slim profits and repeated losses, with the exception of the period immediately following the pandemic.
Makita’s retail presence has been shrinking, and probably market share with it.
Where can I find Makita XGT tools at a store near me? Certainly not Home Depot. What about “Outdoor Adventure.” How’s that going for the brand?
How’d Makita USA do with their huge mid-2022 work glove launch? When I checked earlier this month, Home Depot didn’t have a single SKU of Makita work gloves available for sale in-store or on their website.
So did Corporate really send over a new President and CEO to “gain experience” from the Makita USA team, or to impart experience that can help Makita USA turn things around?
That would just mean the “normal plan” came at a time when Makita USA seems desperate for a change in leadership.
I truly hope you’re not another Makita USA shill. That would be disappointing, not to mention utterly cowardly and pathetic.
Radu
I really hope Makita comes out with this storage system because their MakPac is… well, kinda stale. It’s ok for shop storage, but very cumbersome and inconvenient for on-site usage. They desperately need a better offering. As far as their retail presence, I think Makita should drop Home Depot and make a contract with Menards. HD is overinflated with brands, and a bunch of different modular storage systems now. Menards has a single modular tool box system, their in-house Masterforce, which seems to be a cheap imitation of Tstak, and effectively has no options outside the typical 3-box rolling stack. Makita would fare much better at Menards without competing brands on the same shelf, and with reasonable pricing, I think Menards’ 11% rebate would have people considering the Makita system over packout.