Makita has announced on social media that they will be coming out with a new XGT 8.0Ah battery, model BL4080F.
As Makita XGT is a 36V/40V Max battery system in an 18V form factor, this means that each 8.0Ah battery will pack a whopping 288/320 watt-hours of energy.
To put things into perspective, an 18V/20V Max 12.0A packs 216/240 watt-hours of rechargeable electrochemical energy.
The 8.0Ah battery is equivalent to an 18V/20V Max 16.0Ah battery.
This will be Makita’s largest cordless battery to date, in terms of charge capacity and physical size. XGT X2 80V Max tools would be expected to be powered by two of these batteries.
According to Australian preorders, the price will be $399 AUD, which would be around $298 USD.
Key Features & Specs
- 8Ah charge capacity
- 288 watt-hours nominal
- 76 minutes charging time
- weighs 1.9 kg (4.2 lbs)
Last year, Makita USA product managers made a big deal in showing off how other brands’ higher power battery solutions were ridiculously sized for handheld tools such as cordless impact drivers. They praised their XGT system for being different.
In spite of the biggest selling points Makita USA managers emphasized about the XGT system, here’s a battery that users are not going to comfortably pair with a compact drill or impact driver.
Weighing 4.2 lbs individually, or 8.4 lbs when used for XGT X2 tools, this new Makita XGT 8.0Ah battery is not the type of battery you’re going to attach to most handheld tools.
It’s nice to see Makita push boundaries, although it seems they’re simply using a massive number of cylindrical Li-ion cells. Meaning, this isn’t as innovative as Dewalt or Flex moving to higher performing pouch-style battery cells.
The question is, will there be any new Makita XGT tools that can fully utilize the charge capacity of this battery – if or when it launches in the USA?
Makita’s XGT collection is still very limited, compared to competing cordless platforms and also compared to their international releases.
For instance, where’s the Makita cordless table saw? And what about the improved XGT brad nailer that launched overseas one year ago – why hasn’t that been released to USA retailers yet?
Higher capacity in an oversized battery can be useful, I suppose, but personally I’d rather Makita increase their XGT tool selection, both overall and in the USA.
Here are some of the new Maktia XGT and 18V tools that launched overseas but not here:
- New Makita Cordless Lantern Radio
- New Makita XGT Cordless Router – 35% Faster than 18V
- New Makita XGT Cordless Air Duster Looks Very Multi-Functional
- New Makita 18V Cordless Heat Gun
- New Makita 18V Cooler and Warmer
- New Makita 18V X2 Cordless Kettle
- Makita 18V Cordless TV & Radio
- New Makita 40V Max XGT Cordless Brad Nailer
At this time, we don’t know if the 8.0Ah battery will be joining this list of Makita tools that aren’t available in North America.
If or when it is released here, are you in for one (or two)?
IndianaJonesy (Matt J.)
I would hope that this is a precursor to tools that would make sense with that kind of power (table saw, 12” sliding miter, etc.). Makita’s marketing always feels a bit scatterbrained, so who knows for sure, but feels like this needs a reason to exist beyond “because we can.” Maybe we’ll see that reason sometime soon, because I can’t imagine strapping this behemoth to anything handheld, let alone 2x.
Can’t have the tools without the batteries, so let’s hope so. XGT, if it’s here to stay, needs to start showing us something to make it worthwhile.
Power cutter and their disappointing dual battery dust extractors that don’t run at 72v.
Must be 20 cells, same as MX Fuel, arranged in a different shape.
MX Fuel runs at 72v (80v). I know the compact MX has 20 cells, but looks significantly larger than this 8ah 36v battery. If they designed it to be used with hand held power tools (not MX’s geared area), the Makita has to be smaller than the MX.
This is likely 2000mAh 18650 cell based, with 20 cells. If it used 4000mAh 21700 cells it would be much more compact.
20-2000mAh cells would be only 4ah at 36/40 volts. Would take 40 of them to make the capacity as listed. Much more likely to be 20-4000mAh 21700 cells, same as MX Fuel, but in a 2s2p arrangement instead of all 20 cells in series.
3.6V nominal per cell
If 2.0Ah/cell, that would mean 40 cells.
If 4.0Ah/cell, that would mean 20 cells.
Makita XGT 2.5Ah: 18V 5Ah size/form factor
Makita XGT 4.0Ah: larger size/form factor
Makita XGT 5.0Ah: even larger size
Makita XGT 8.0Ah: largest size
The 2.5Ah has (10) 18650 2.5Ah cells.
The 4.0Ah likely has (10) 21700 4.0Ah cells.
It looks like the 5.0Ah, as it’s considerably larger than the 4.0Ah battery, has (20) 18650 cells.
This 8Ah battery appears to be quite a bit taller than the 5Ah.
If I had to guess, I’d say they’re using (40) 18650 2.0Ah batteries, but that seems like a lot. That’s the equivalent of (4) 18V 4.0Ah batteries, rather than (2) 18V 8.0Ah batteries.
2,5 and 5 Ah uses 1865
4 and 8 Ah uses 2170
Not sure by the 2 Ah, but my guess is 2170
Makes sense 👍
Can you please explain your rationale?
40 batteries seems like an awful lot when having to deal with thermal management. Lots of places for heat to build up between cells without some active cooling like a fan.
If you look at the sides of the batteries – all XGT batteries – there are what look to be vents built into the sides.
In theory, (2) leading 18650 2.0Ah cells in parallel can deliver higher current than (1) leading 21700 4.0Ah cell. It’s possible that the 18650 cells could also exhibit better thermal performance.
It’s a moot point unless or until someone does a teardown, but based on apparent and comparative geometries, it does look like the battery is built with 18650 cells rather than 21700.
As to Aaron SD’s point about heat buildup in a 4-row pack:
Yes, that’s correct. That’s why there’s basically no 4-row pack. Even DeWalt with its massive 15Ah FlexVolt battery went to literal lengths to limit the pack to just 3 rows of cells. Even in battery OPE, 3 rows of cells is basically the ceiling, despite greater battery pack surface area and therefore more convective heat shedding.
What I am disappointed in is the utter lack of most major tool manufacturers exploring ways to optimize cell cooling. Most tool manufacturers seem to be content with sticking batteries into a rectangular plastic box and calling it a day.
There are many levers engineers can pull to manipulate cell temperatures without resorting to active measures such as forced air cooling, such as:
1) Battery casing geometry — Ego uses a unique shaped battery to ensure that every cell has at least partial contact with the battery casing
2) Internal battery layout
3) Battery heatsinks — better that batteries be wrapped in plastic than left to dissipate heat to air, which has a lower thermal conductivity
4) Optimizing the battery casing-air convection interface — like Bosch with their CoolPack, which uses “fins” and special plastics that are more thermally conductive than typical plastics
5) Optimizing the battery-outer casing convection interface — Bosch, again
6) Phase change materials — Chervon products — but the issue here is that once the phase change material is heated up, it can actually act as an insulator.
The 2amp and 2.5amp have 10 18650 cells the 4 amp had 10 21700 cells the 5 amp had 20 18650 cells and the 8 amp had 20 21700 cells.
Is this for their coffee pot?
Oooo. Maybe they need the power for a Nespresso machine.
Would love to have this for my blower.
For their upcoming 40v concrete saw?
Yeah – that and their 28lb. demo hammer that they showed off at the World of Concrete
Pretty sure this will have 20x 4Ah 21700 cells (Samsung 40T). 10S2P…
works with any type of Makita tool or there a Specific Model
I would assume it will work with any XGT tool.
Makita USA called me up screaming the last time I asked about tool-battery compatibility, and they refuse to answer media questions about XGT, and so I cannot confirm it.
Tell us more about this call, please and thank you. 🙂
I don’t have much more to say on that part, but I talked to a rep and he promised me they’re working on a jigsaw and oscillating tool for the 40v platform, so that’s some other news.
The jigsaw better not have a pair of buttons. I don’t get it, they seem to know where the slider switch goes on their grinders. 🤷♀️
Makita send to have a “this is how it’s always been done” mentality. Bigger batteries are always better, but in the 18v platform they packed themselves out of huge batteries because of the 36×2 platform. The LXT had been out for nearly 20 years and have built all their tools around the same size battery hole. I think if they get into pouched batteries that will give them a way around the size issue. And if they have any forethought they will with this out in the 40v before they get stuck. That being said, I still have no reason to get into the 40v system, although the track saw and miter saw are looking really good. Unless they update the 18v to match.
I know it’s coming to the states because they showed it here at an event with their 14″ demo saw. I believe they also showed off the brad nailer and air duster at the same event, so they should be here too. Last year during the end of April I think it was, they revealed they were bringing the 40v system to the states. So perhaps they’ll make an announcement around that time this year bringing the nailer and duster plus some other tools possibly to the states.
Product dump is tomorrow. They launched XGT on April 1st last year because they are tone deaf. They’ve been, I presume, holding out for another dump. It’s to force retailers to make a large purchase before the end of the fourth quarter.
Koko The Talking Ape
Wow. Four of these would make a decent scooter battery.
when will we see larger a.h batteries in 18v?
This is why they created the XGT system, because their 18V line seemingly reached the end of the road with respect to battery performance and capacity.
It would be great if they’d do pouch batteries for the LXT line
Exactly! They just need a slim 3.0
18V= 3.0 slim / 6.0 thick.
Keep the 2.0 and 4.0 for the promo kits only.
Dump 1.5, 3.0 + 5.0 thicks
XGT has a purpose for certain tools…. but most won’t need it.
“288/320 watt-hours of energy” is incorrect because 320 watt-hours will never be attainable no matter how the battery is used. This is because the peak voltage quickly drops, and averages to the nominal voltage only over the course of a very gentle slow discharge. At a higher draw, the voltage drops more so in normal use, the watt-hours delivered will be significantly less than even the nominal rating.
However, I include both calculations and figures because some brands use 4.0V Max/cell in their own watt-hour ratings.
With respect to cordless power tool batteries, watt-hours is almost entirely used for comparative purposes. It doesn’t matter whether you figure each cell is 3.6V or 4.0V Max, as long as you’re consistent.
If someone looks at the back of a 20V Max 12Ah battery and sees “240 watt-hours,” and sees this 40V Max 8Ah battery rated at 288 watt-hours, it’s not going to equate. So, I provide both numbers.
I figure that those in-the-know will understand why I do this, and those that don’t would quickly put it all together when they look to do watt-hour comparisons.
You can’t even use close to 288 watt-hours of energy from this battery. The battery will shut off before it goes anywhere NEAR 0 volts. It will shut off before it even goes under 3 volts. Technically, people should be integrating the area under the curve of the voltage-time graph with endpoints being the cut-off voltage and the starting voltage.
Let’s say the cut-off voltage is 3.0V. The nominal voltage will quickly decrease from “4.0V Max” until that cut-off is reached.
For argument’s sake, let’s consider the average voltage to be 3.6V, which is the basis for brands’ watt-hour ratings.
You can measure discharge capacity, or constant current discharge duration to produce amp-hour capacity measurements. Multiply that by the average voltage, and you get the watt-hours.
Or, measure everything – charge capacity and voltage for a battery set to be discharged at a constant rate. That will give you an exact watt-hour rating.
Basically, you’re going to get the charge capacity of a battery, from 0 to XaH, along with voltage from 4.0V Max/ cell (really 3.6V nominal), down to the cut-off (say 3.0V since we don’t know how what different power tool brand program their batteries to.
If we assume the voltage goes from 3.6V down to 3V linearly, we can consider the average voltage to be 3.3V.
If we have an 18V battery rated at 5Ah, that would result in a 90 watt-hour rating.
For a real-world estimate, taking some liberties to assume an average voltage of 3.3V per cell throughout the discharge cycle from 5Ah to 0Ah, that would be 82.5 watt-hours, which isn’t far off from 90 watt-hours.
Charge capacity can vary a bit, both with respect to specs and based on environmental factors, and so voltage x charge capacity is a fair method of calculating watt-hours.
Unless my logic or numbers are wrong, simplified watt-hour calculations that do and don’t take into account voltage drop during discharge should be within 10% of each other.
Since different brands might use different cells and have different cut-off voltages, it seems fine to use nominal (or max) voltage and charge capacity for comparative watt-hour calculations.
Koko The Talking Ape
I believe Collin was suggesting we measure amp-hours empirically, which is your “measure everything” approach. No averaging, no assumptions. We plot the curve of voltage over time under some standard load, from fully charged to cut-off voltage, then measure the area under the curve (“integration.”) (We can divide that area by time to get an actual average voltage, if we want.)
I’m not clear about why that would be a flawed approach. Can you explain?
Sorry, @Collin has the right idea, but I felt it necessary to expand upon it. I went back, read @andy’s claim, then @Collin’s again about “You can’t even use close to 288 watt-hours of energy from this battery,” and thought I’d start from scratch, making no assumptions about who thinks what.
Cell manufacturers calculate watt-hours correctly, based on 3.6v, or the average voltage over discharge when using a reasonable non-damaging cut off voltage. They do calculate it at .1C (10 hour discharge rate) though, so it’s not realistic, but it is achievable. So 4V per cell max is achievable, WH based on AH*3.6 per cell is achievable, but WH based on AH*4V per cell is false. Sure as Stuart said it’s only 10% difference, but still is false.
Watt-hours based on 4V is indeed absolutely false. But it is what it is.
Some brands describe mowers based on blade sizes, others on deck size.
Shop vacuum HP ratings are bogus.
It is what it is. We cannot change brands’ marketing standards, but we can discuss what’s necessary to understand them.
To their credit, Makita calculates watt-hours based on nominal voltage. But other brands don’t.
This will be great for when they come out with their new XGT microwave, blender, power wall, soda dispenser & george foreman grill. 😀
I think the coffee maker was a great idea (at first), and maybe with more progress on this kind of battery, a microwave would be another!
I had the 1st gen coffeemaker and loved it because it was capable of wall or battery power. After it quit working I didn’t buy the 2nd gen because it was only battery powered. If makita keeps going with these appliances, it would be great if they went back to giving us an option to plug it in, especially on a high draw device like a microwave
I wasn’t aware of the 1st gen model. I think that would be great to have the option. I only use cordless tools because it’s easier for some jobs, but others I would prefer the power (of some) corded tools (those that, Flexvolt for instance, aren’t yet more powerful in the cordless version). But rather than have both, I generally just go cordless. The Dewalt mitre saw in Flexvolt has the power cord option which I use, but it’s only for the dual battery tools and not all.
Like you say, the microwave would be great in “dual fuel” version.
I also just got a Metabo duplex nailer and it works from battery or wall power. We need more expansion of this type of power.
You’re asking the wrong questions. Let’s start with where’s all of the stuff XGT they already released but jut not in the USA? Why are new LXT tools not in XGT? Why are tea kettles more important than jigsaws? Why did Hilti release a full variety of products immediately on their new platform, while Makita released 500 grinders and two thousand circular saws and none of the tools to go with them?
They loaded new skus onto the website this weekend (new tools link will slow down and usually not load when they do it), and, as per last time, I suspect an XGT dump on April 1st (tomorrow). They can enforce MOQ and get a nice bump for the fourth quarter. Makita keeps roadmaps close to their chest, but they are also very predictable.
Well, they added a tea kettle and light and a sander for LXT today.
I guess I’m dumping my Makita stuff. Makita USA really played me for a fool with XGT.