I attended Milwaukee’s new product event last week, and loved seeing all of the updates and features that were engineered into their new 2nd-generation M18 Fuel drills and 2nd-gen M18 Fuel impact driver and compact impact wrenches. There are a lot of finer details in my coverage of those products that you are unlikely to find anywhere else, so check out those links!
Another exciting part of the event was seeing that there are 2 new higher capacity battery packs coming out – a new M18 6.0Ah Li-ion battery pack that shares the same M18 XC form factor as previous high capacity batteries, and a new High Demand 9.0Ah Li-ion battery pack.
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In the tour of Milwaukee’s headquarters, we stopped by “the battery lab.” It was an impressive sight, and I really wanted to wander away from the group to take a closer look at the test stations. Later, I was asked by a Milwaukee manager if I saw the “battery explosion” room, and I cried inside a little.
What I did notice at the battery test lab was that Milwaukee takes their battery testing very seriously. They were testing banks of their own batteries, and also banks of competitors’ batteries, with chargers, batteries, and connected load simulators (I’m assuming they had these) set to create as realistic battery cycling as you can get on a test bench.
Check out more of our New Milwaukee NPS 2015 Tool Coverage!
With their latest Li-ion battery packs, Milwaukee doesn’t care about being first, they care about being the best.
The new 6.0Ah battery pack is the same form factor as other M18 XC Li-ion battery packs, but with higher capacity.
And then there’s their new monster of a 9.0Ah battery pack. The new High Demand battery pack is engineered to fuel heavy duty tools for longer.
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In a talk with a Milwaukee product director, it was made clear that the 9.0Ah battery pack could very well deliver more than 2X the runtime of a 5.0Ah battery pack. How is that possible, if the numbers say that a 9.0Ah battery pack should only provide 80% more runtime than a 5.0Ah battery pack?
Well, in one test, involving two M18 Fuel Super Hawgs, the 9.0Ah outlasted the 5.0Ah battery by quite a bit. At one point, the 5.0Ah battery wasn’t out of juice, it had overheated, activating an auto-shutoff protection circuit.
Compact battery packs have a total of 5 cells (5 x 3.6V = 18V). XC battery packs have double channels, meaning 5 series of 2 batteries in parallel, for the same 18V voltage but double the capacity. These new High Demand battery packs have 6 series of 3 batteries in parallel, and so you get 3x the capacity, if the same battery cells are used for all 3 form factors.
If this is starting to get confusing, all you really need to know is that the 9.0Ah is bigger and longer-lasting.
Here’s how it compares to compact and XC battery packs.
The 9.0Ah battery pack is taller than the XC 6.0Ah battery pack, but not by as much as I had assumed it would. I believe the cells are staggered, making the battery pack a little longer. But that’s the tradeoff – it’s taller, but not a lot taller, and longer to make up for it. It’s the same width as all other M18 battery packs.
When the 9.0Ah battery is connected to a tool, you could hardly tell the difference.
It sticks out and down a little further, but I think most users will simply get used to it.
Some of the new M18 cordless tools and accessories that are coming out are being designed with the full range of battery form factors in mind. This image of the battery section of the LED tripod worklight, for instance, is sized to fit compact, XC, and High Demand battery packs.
Back to the 6.0Ah form factor.
You should see 100% more runtime compared to a 3.0Ah battery, 50% more runtime compared to a 4.0Ah battery, and 20% more runtime compared to a 5.0Ah battery pack.
It doesn’t make much sense to upgrade from 5.0Ah to 6.0Ah packs, but if you have some 3.0Ah battery packs that are showing their age, which typically means reduced battery capacity, then these would be make for great replacements.
It remains to be seen how the 6.0Ah batteries will compare to the other XC battery packs that came before it.
As of right now, it looks like Milwaukee will continue selling all 4 XC battery pack sizes: 3.0Ah, 4.0Ah, 5.0Ah, and 6.0Ah. There will also be the 9.0Ah High Demand battery size mentioned above, as well as 2.0Ah compact battery size. I forgot to check, but they will probably continue selling compact 1.5Ah battery packs as well.
Higher capacity battery packs aren’t without their tradeoffs – the higher capacity, the longer the charging times.
If you recall, Milwaukee came out with a rapid charging battery station. Not only that, but a single-bay rapid charger is also on the way. I was off talking about the technical aspects of the battery pack designs, and so I missed the part where the new rapid multi-voltage charger was discussed.
The new 48-59-1808 multi-voltage rapid charger can charge batteries up to 40% faster, and works with M12 and M18 Li-ion battery packs. We’re still waiting for some numbers regarding charging times, but were previously told that the rapid charging station can recharge an XC battery pack in 37 minutes.
So that makes sense – if a XC battery pack takes 60 mins to charge on a regular charger, it might take around 37 minutes on this one.
Higher capacity battery packs will take longer to charge.
According to the manual, which I downloaded from Milwaukee, the charging circuit outputs 6.0A for 18V battery packs, and 4.0A for 12V battery packs. That’s A for amps, not Ah for amp-hours. The standard charger works
There are energy losses, and so charging time isn’t just battery capacity divided by charging rate. And so the 37-minute charging time probably corresponds to the 3.0Ah XC battery pack. Based on this info, I would guess that a 4.0Ah battery pack would recharge in maybe 48 minutes, and a 5.0Ah in 60 minutes, and a 6.0Ah in 72-75 minutes. A 9.0Ah battery might take 1 hour and 50 minutes to charge. These are just guesses, but based on Milwaukee’s claims and standard charging rates.
ETA: Sept 2015 for the Rapid Charger, Later in 2016 for the 6.0Ah and 9.0Ah batteries
First Impressions
It’s nice to see a 6.0Ah option, for users that want the highest battery capacity in an XC form factor, and a 9.0Ah High Demand option for those who want or need the most runtime, period.
No, you’re not going to need to slap a 9.0Ah battery onto any of the new compact M18 Fuel impact tools, or one of the new 2nd-Gen M18 Fuel drills either. But a Super Hawg? A magnetic drill? LED tripod worklight? Super Max rotary hammer? Why not?
Potentially, Milwaukee might focus new extreme-duty tools around the new 9.0Ah High Demand battery pack. Their new miter saw that’s been teased about? It’s clear that Milwaukee isn’t bringing over the cordless miter saw that they released in Europe, but if they do, or design something else for the USA market, I’m sure it’ll be with the 9.0Ah battery in mind.
When you pair certain tools with an XC battery pack, such as cordless drills, you can draw more power than you can from a compact battery pack. It stands to reason that you could potentially draw more current from a 9.0Ah High Demand battery pack than you can from an XC battery pack. And even when you’re not drawing more current, you’re tapping less current potential from each battery cell, and so they run cooler and longer. That’s why the Super Hawg was going and going on an 9.0Ah battery pack than on an XC battery pack.
These are exciting new developments from Milwaukee, and I am even more excited to see how their competitors respond. With the new rapid charging technology, they are challenging one of Makita’s most significant 18V LXT selling points. And now that they’re bundling some of their premium M18 Fuel kits with 5.0Ah battery packs, they’re neutralizing Dewalt’s advantage of being the only brand to bundle certain kits with 5.0Ah batteries.
Exciting times ahead.
Kent
Mate, Metabo are releasing 6.2 high density lithium and i guarantee you these run longer than this so callec 9ah
Brian
AmpHours is an absolute term.
assuming equal consumption devices and assuming true labeling, 9Ah will exceed 6.2Ah.
As for “high density” perhaps the metabo will be smaller by volume or weight than the 6.0 milwaukee. For whatever thats worth.
Pablo
You’d think that, but you’d be wrong, Ah is not absolute, the chemistry dictates how efficiently it discharges under varying load.
i.e.
http://i.imgur.com/1dXllP4.png
And check out the website in the corner of the image, he tests just about every battery he gets his hands on.
Stuart
Yes, which means that Ah numbers can be fudged.
Consider the curve of the Samsung INR18650-25R, which I believe some of these brands use in their cordless battery packs, as it’s capable of high current deliver.
http://www.powerstream.com/p/INR18650-25R-datasheet.pdf
The spread isn’t really too far away from 2.5Ah. So the numbers can be fudged, but probably not by very much.
Friedhelm
Stuart, concerning run-time Brian is absolutely correct. (Unless the discharge capacity numbers are fake,) The higher capacity runs longer.
Ah is absolute, because it is a measured value.
A different point are characteristics like especially power (influenced by internal resistance and current capability of the cell, both interrelated). Here your thinking is partly correct, it cannot be concluded from 6Ah or 9Ah which is stronger. BUT 9Ah has the advantage of 3 cells in parallel (this means battery internal resistance is 1/3 compared to cell internal resistance/single layer), this means a different chemistry/different internal resistance/different current capability must be very strong (all added up >50%) to give the 2 cell in parallel design of a 6Ah battery any chance to be stronger than a battery based on 3 cells in parallel. Such situation is not realistic, because the manufacturer of the 3 cell in parallel battery will target to use the best/strongest cell available, because the target market of 3 cells in parallel is strongest power (and as a side-effect this is associated with longest run-time -desired- in contrast to highest weight/largest volume -not desired, but may be acceptable seeing the longer run-time-)
Stuart
Things are more complicated to discuss now, due the advent of 21700-sized cordless power tool batteries, but we’ll ignore all that for a moment.
Amp-hours are measurable, but are not constant, as charge capacity can vary with current output and operating temperature. Thermal shutdown can also be a problem.
https://toolguyd.com/revisiting-what-amp-hour-means-cordless-power-tool-batteries/
There is a limit as to the “best/stongest” 18650-sized Li-ion battery cells you could buy. Milwaukee’s 9.0Ah battery has a lot of thought and engineering towards cooling. But why do you think that 18650-sized 6.0Ah batteries aren’t widely available? Under demanding use, I’ve heard that 18650-sized 6.0Ah battery packs might not provide as much runtime as 18650-sized 5.0Ah batteries. Given the characteristics of the best 2.5Ah and 3.0Ah cells available, thermal shutdown the higher capacity cells could reach thermal shutdown conditions faster.
Currently, Milwaukee’s new High Output batteries are advertised as providing a step-up of power compared to their size, meaning their 10-cell battery is said to provide the same power potential as their 15-cell 9.0Ah HD battery.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-cordless-power-tool-battery-sizes-explained/
Brian
internal impedance determines the efficiency at which it can supply a given charge (and what its threshold is for safety)
You can get cells with lower internal resistance, or you can get a cell with a higher capacity, or you can run series in parallel to distribute the load.
So all else equal, the 9ah will have 50% more discharge rate capacity vs the 6ah.
Even if all else isnt equal, and metabo splurges for the 40c discharge batteries and milwakee uses cheap 10C batteries… I dont think this will be significant, because all of the tools are designed to minimally run on a 3amphour battery. yeah, they might go into the red a smidge sooner at the end of the battery…
All this aside, a 6.2Ah battery is still a 6.2Ah battery. Amps*volts = Watts, Watts do work.
Maybe the metabo is more efficient with power delivery? wastes less to heat? perhaps, but thats chump change in the grand scheme of things.
Stuart
Nobody makes 40C 18640 cells. I’ve looked all around, and 2.0Ah and 2.5Ah cells top off at 20A continuous, which I guess would be 10C. The Samsung INR cell I linked to above can hit 100A pulses for less than 1 second, which means they can hardly be considered 40C cells.
Milwaukee says they use the best cells, as shown and selected by their in-house testing, and my disassembly of 4.0Ah battery packs confirm this.
Milwaukee product managers must have said that they use low impedance cells 100 times. Most brands use low impedance cells, but apparently one brand raced to market and released 4.0Ah battery packs in Europe, using whatever cells they could find, resulting in lower runtime than 3.0Ah packs.
philip
This is also why the watt hours are printed on the battery too. It’s in the small print.
Luke Cool
Amp hours is storage capacity, Amps is discharge rate. Amp Hours, if correctly measured, is an absolute term. Discharge rate is measured in continuous and peak. Amps, if correctly measured, is also an absolute term. “Amps x Volts = Watts” and “Amp hours x Volts = Watt hours”. All are by definition “absolute”.
Luke Cool
I will also add that I do agree that discharge rate is determined by the chemistry size and quality of the cells, but not much information is given on the packs. Milwaukee states very little past Ah, volt, cell configuration, and their pack are quality and hold their voltage well. As for the C rating, you should trust their recommendations and not use the single layered packs on the power hungry tools.
James
Truth
Stuart
I’d love for you to provide some proof to back your claims.
Milwaukee engineers did point out how some brands use lower quality high impedance cells in their lower capacity packs to where a 3Ah pack from one brand might be vastly superior to a 3Ah pack from another. They were very convincing about the superiority of the cells they use and of M18 battery packs.
From what I saw, and what I know about battery tech, I find it wildly unlikely that Metabo’s 6.2Ah battery pack, however good it might or might not be, can be declared a superior battery, just like that.
These new Milwaukee M18 batteries won’t be out for another 6 months, and you are already guaranteeing that an also-unreleased Metabo battery is better? You’re either a Metabo rep, a dedicated and short-sighted fanboy, or simply uninformed. I’d love to be wrong; if you know something that I don’t, I’m all ears.
Pablo
Milwaukee seems like they’re locked out (perhaps by patents?) from using battery-saving technologies like Metabo/Makita with aircooled packs, and Bosch (with heat dissipating coolpacks). Even DeWalt had open packs at one point, though I’m not sure why they stopped (failure to renew a licensing fee or something?).
Thus the 9Ah is the logical step for Milwaukee to extract performance out their closed box.
Metabo’s large backplane on the Li-HD packs should help w/ cell balancing and overall amperage output, which should help it perform better than a similar 6Ah battery, but as for closing the gap to three banks of parallel cells, I doubt it can achieve that. They do make some pretty big percent gains though, which makes me wonder if they switched chemistries.
J Marsh
I’m pretty sure that they are using 20700 or 21700 cells now instead of 18650. That’s how and why we are seeing big capacity jumps with the high current that isn’t available in 18650 cells with a low internal impedance.
Dominic van Lievenoogen
We won’t know anything untill any real life test will be done.
The 9 Amp battery is nothing impressive from an engineering feat. Lets be serious: All they did is slap on another row on cells.
It get’s the job done ! No discussion about that but it’s the easiest and quickest solution without actually improving anything inside your battery.
Not saying I believe the extensive Metabo Marketing about their LIHD batteries before i see some testing but Milwaukee’s Marketing has also proved completely over done many time.
If Metabo’s marketing claim will appear to be true they could possible have developed a much better battery pack then any other brand, including the milwaukee 9.0ah solution.
They do claim a vastly improved battery with alot less internal resistance and thus alot less power losses. Their 6.2 Amp LIHD battery should give us alot longer runtime then 6.2 h would appear to give.
Only time will tell when these are out and widely available 🙂
Hugh
What are the watt hours on those batteries? Oh wait, I’ll answer my own question, there isn’t a number. Metabo is doing the same thing Dewalt did years ago when they changed from the torque numbers to Unit watts out . When there is less than one way to compare apples to apples, 9.0 still is greater than 6.2.
Friedhelm
Hugh, you can caluculate the energy contents of a battery in Wh by yourself!
Simply take the capacity in Ah and multiply it by the nominal voltage (for Power Tools in general 3.6V per cell in series).
Ronald Dolfay
I contacted Milwaukee’s customer service department and was told that the prospective release date for the 6AH and 9AH batteries was at the end of April.
I hope this is a good estimate, I’m looking forward to using the 9AH battery on my Sawsall and circular saw.
Nathan
9ah. interesting.
was there any mention or discussion of their 28V offerings. just curious.
Stuart
Yes. Milwaukee will be focusing on M12 and M18 Li-ion platforms. M28 will continue to be supported, but there’s nothing new coming. The brand president said that there’s nothing on the M28 roadmap for at least the next 24 months.
M28 isn’t dead in the water, and Milwaukee will support it for as long as there’s demand (it’s still popular in Europe or Australia, I forget), but I think it was made clear that the M28 platform’s days are numbered.
Nathan
figures, thought it was a stop gap measure. I figure they will rig some M36 thing in the future for their major power tools – just like I think Dewalt will use that same 40V back for theirs.
like the biggest of the SDS devices, or the larger bandsaw etc.
OH and the battery thing is cracking me up above. you know with the better batteries they might not be getting as hot as they used to – thus the newer – safer, closed in pack designs. but whatever.
Stuart
I don’t know if or when Milwaukee might ever launch a 36V/40V Max platform. Their new SDS Max rotary hammer is designed for the M18 platform, and it seems they designed it with the 9.0Ah battery in mind.
They really don’t seem interested in competing in the outdoor power tool space.
Jake s
Any details on the super hawg you mentioned?
Stuart
Yes, but I’m still working on that post. It’s bigger than the M18 Fuel Hole Hawg (https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-fuel-hole-hawg/), of course, and is designed for larger diameter drilling for plumbing applications.
fred
It will certainly be interesting to try out. Drilling with big selfeeds (e.g. 4-1/8 and 4-5/8) – especially through old sappy lumber – sometimes sistered – is always a challenge.
Jake S
Looking forward to reading that post! I just recently purchased a hole hawg and am debating returning it for the super hawg.
Dennis
At a certain point of increasing battery capacity, doesn’t the form factor just get too large? Eventually the size has to top out, and they’ll have to focus on yielding the most power from the available space.
Stuart
“Too large” depends on the tool. Too large for a cordless drill or impact driver? Yes, I think so. But for a floor or tripod-mounted LED worklight? Mag drill? Rotary hammer? Cordless saw? Super Hawg? The difference might not even be noticeable.
Milwaukee showed off the 9.0Ah with two-handed tools that you ordinarily wouldn’t consider lightweight one-handed tools anyways. It’s definitely NOT going to replace the XC battery pack for a lot of tools, users, and applications, but will be useful for others.
It’s good to have a 9.0Ah option for those who could benefit from it, than not. Right? That’s the way I see it.
As mentioned, the Super Hawg runtime test triggered an XC battery’s auto shutoff, while one paired with a High Demand 9.0Ah battery kept on going. And I’m sure that the new SDS Max rotary hammer is another tool where the greater capacity and current drain ceiling of the 9.0Ah battery pack will come in handy.
Milwaukee is very persistent in designing M18 cordless tools with corded-like performance, and I think that the 9.0Ah battery is a going to be a big part of that process.
RX9
Interestingly enough, although the M18 9.0AH pack is the first effort by an OEM to create a triple row (3 rows of five 18650 cells – 15 batteries total) battery pack, it is not the first example on the market.
There are some off-brand pack manufacturers (including brands such as Powerextra and AKPower), who have already had triple row packs available for Makita 18V tools for some time now. These packs use cheaper, older technology 1.5AH cells, which means that they only have a nominal capacity of 4.5AH.
Nathan
so odd thought now – do you think Milwaukee is considering moving to all cordless tools? IE doing away with corded devices in their line up.
I often figure one company will do it – might as well.
Stuart
Well, kind of. Their goal is to bridge the gap between cordless and corded by designing cordless tools with corded-like convenience.
I don’t think they’ll replace their corded tools, but they definitely seem intent on pushing the cordless boundaries as far as they can go.
When’s the last time Milwaukee updated a corded tool design?
Even so, there are still reasons to buy corded tools.
fred
I think there is much to make one believe that corded electric power tools will remain viable – perhaps remaining as the best choice for some (not all – as demanding tasks. The same can probably be said for pneumatic tools (e.g. even corded tools are still not the equivalent of heavy duty pneumatics for things like pavement breaking). For both classes of tool – I think that there will also remain a viable niche market for them – as battery powered tools continue to improve and gain market share.
There seems to be a progression to the evolution of tools – perhaps starting with early man. Some classes of tools become truly obsolete – but others continue on to fill niche markets. Horse-drawn plows are for the most part obsolete in our neck of the woods – but a niche market continues in Amish and some other communities. Mains-powered electric motors long ago replaced engines for almost all machine tools – but battery power is starting to appear in niche markets for relatively light-duty machine tools like miter saws. Engines may continue to dominate for tools like commercial lawnmowers, trimmers, chain saws and other farm/garden equipment – but corded tools have been filling a niche market – and better battery-powered tools seem to be poised to make market inroads.
When electric motor-power became practical for what had been the domain of hand tools (portable drilling, sawing, planning, routing etc.) because of the innovations of companies like Fein, Black & Decker, Porter Cable etc. – the market was changed – but hand tools did not go away. Many tools – like Yankee Screwdrivers, Disston hand saws, Millers-Falls or North Brothers bit braces – that once dominated the market – and were ubiquitous on jobsites – were at first replaced by corded electric power tools – and now mostly by cordless equivalents. Both the hand tools and their corded tool replacements – now have become the niche market – but from the number of companies still making hand saws, hand planes etc. – it would seem that the niche market is still viable. I can think of many examples of tools I’ve bought and used over the years that IMO have no battery-powered equivalent on the horizon. Batteries are getting better but corded electrics like our timber framing tools (e.g. big Makita and Mafell planers and saws), big drills in near-continuous use as mud mixers, drills used for horizontal boring, heavy-duty grinders and sanders and some others will probably continue to have a market. Whether is enough for some companies to want to produce these tools is another question. It may well be that one or more companies may decide to become exclusively cordless – but I’m guessing if they do – others will seize the opportunity to sell into the corded market.
Ari
When you mentioned about commercial lawnmowers, actually battery ones are entering the market. They can run 1/2 day or all day on a charge and are every bit as much of a performer as their gas counterpart. If cars can do it, so can lots of other larger pieces of equipment.
Friedhelm
Now, 3, 4 years later I would say it in following words:
In the past available power was THE limiting factor on cordless tools.
With the introduction of new larger cells (21700 size) and also optimization of the internal cell design in direction of extremely low internal resistance and very high current capability {may be facilitated by the larger 21700 size} cordless is not any more limited by its power, but rather secondary points like:
– cost of the battery (even without use a battery is dead after 5 or 10 years -strongly depending on the condition of storage)
– availability of fuel, 110/230V and alternatively Solar
The cost point will be different for a US-person having 1st level infrastructure available compared to 2nd/3rd level countries, where also the relation of salary to cost of the battery is completely different.
And the availability of relatively cheap solar cells at any place where you have sun-shine must be compared to the effort to permanently transport fuel to some places where you may have neither roads nor 110/230V.
The strong increase in power has shifted the market share in favour of battery based tools, but there are strong reasons for the fuel based and 110/230V based tools to continue, but on a reduced market share. When roads are available it is still much cheaper to transport the fuel instead of investing and installing Solar (but environmental issues are putting pressure to reduce the exhaust of CO2 and Hitachi/Hitoki has recently responded to this by stopping fuel based tools to concentrate on battery based tools). And a 110/230V tool can be stored for many, many years and will work without any problem, while the battery is long dead even under best storage conditions.
KenZ
I find the 9Ah pack a very interesting move. Ideally, _I_ would prefer going the Makita route with an X2 approach and just going to 36V with 2x 18v large packs (thus a 36V, 6Ah equivalent vs an 18V 9Ah tool which should be able to do more work at only a slightly higher weight). I get the arguments for and against, but the advantages of a higher voltage (reduced resistive losses) seems compelling to me.
Still, it shows to me that Milwaukee is dead set on being as cutting edge as possible. ‘Disruptive’ is probably a stretch too far, but cutting edge, yes.
I’m still a Makita guy because of history and the tools I own (it was the right call in 2006), but if I were to buy in again today, it’d be Big Red.
Ari
I do not think you have to deal with resistive losses very much in a tool when wiring only spans a few inches. It is not liking you are wiring a neighborhood or a large vehicle. You can design a 18v motor with plenty of torque and rpm. Many times the larger voltage tools increase more in size than the difference in battery making them harder to deal with. Dewalt came out with a 24v system years ago and they were expensive, heavy and not even as powerful as my older porter cable 19.2 nicad brushed motor system which I still use today. They completely flopped.
Joe
All this talk about new M18 stuff, and that’s great. But what about the M12 line?
Stuart
New M12 right angle impact is coming, more on that soon!
BikerDad
When are they going to bump the compact 18v battery pack past 2.0 ah? It certainly seems like 2.5ah or even 3.0 ah should be in the cards….
Stuart
I’m guessing if/when the prices of 2.5Ah and 3.0Ah cells come down.
But also, when I last checked. 2.0Ah cells might have had very slightly better on-paper specs than 2.5Ah, and 3.0Ah had slightly worse specs than both. Keep in mind that not a lot of spec sheets for 3.0Ah 18650 cells are floating around the web just yet.
So, costs per pack might not be the main issue. Individual cell performance will be important regardless of battery pack size, but you don’t want users to see worse performance from 2.5Ah or 3.0Ah pack compared to 1.5Ah and 2.0Ah battery packs.
While I too would like to see higher capacity compact battery packs, I don’t want to see higher capacity but lower performing ones, or more expensive ones.
Ari
I do not know why anyone wants to bother with compact batteries anymore anyway. The 5.0 are not that expensive as batteries have always been at 70-80 dollars each and they are not any heavier than batteries have been in the past. They give you more output and eliminate as many battery changes. I am only buying 5.0 and maybe 9.0 eventually.
Stuart
Compact drills and drivers are often better balanced with compact battery packs, and they still run for a very long time. The same is true for certain other tools.
Benjamen
I prefer using the compact batteries. With the 4 and 5Ah batteries, the M18 drills and impact drivers I’ve used feel like I’m holding a dumbell. With the compact battery it does feel better balanced.
I don’t know i its the dumbell effect, but the larger batteries really make it seem that the tool is significantly heavier even though the weight difference between the packs isn’t that large.
Ari
I have never understood how most drills could have an issue of not being balanced. The battery is at the bottom and the drill is over it as a t. So it may be heavier, but the balance should not change. I am a smaller guy 5’8 and 150 lbs, but I have never complained about most tools being that heavy. I have 19.2 nicad porter cable drills which I have used for years and I never complained about them. Seriously, when you use a drill or anything you build up strength and get used to it. It is not like the drills weight a ridiculous amount. We are just talking about a couple of pounds, right? Have people just become wimpy or want to complain about every thing. Understand, again, that a compact battery with only 1 set of cells does not provide the current output of a larger pack with 2 sets of cells and has to work harder. Therefore you are sacrificing torque and power under load and the packs will heat up more. Why buy more compact packs at a higher cost per ah and just by all 5ah packs. The compact packs if they heat up more, have a shorter life. Lithium batteries now are lighter than packs every used to be, so now you want to go even lighter and can not live with a 5 ah weight? Like I said, people seem to get wimpier every year. We all complain about the toys with sharp edges now which I had when I was a kid. Parents want to sue for everything. A women gets millions for hot coffee?? Seriously people.
Ari
It seems I can not edit this and correct missed words etc. Typed in a hurry.
Brian
whelp… It looks like I’ll need one of these to run my angle grinder. The 4.0 gives about 2 min of grinding out brick joints. Any ideas what the cost will be?
Pablo
If a grinder is a primary tool for you, you should probably just get the Metabo. Their brushed grinder is top of the heap even against brushless grinders, and with their own brushless version in the pipeline, it should stand to be even better.
Here’s a review site that tested the (brushed) Metabo along w/ the M18 Fuel, Bosch, Hilti, Hitachi, DeWalt, and Ridgid.
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/cordless-tools/18-volt-cordless-angle-grinders_o.aspx
Hugh
I think the 9.0 battery is the first of their High Demand line of batteries. Look at the way it engages the cordless rotary hammer, It looks small on the tool like something bigger is on the way.
Pete
I love this post! I love battery tech and options and their battery charger wall.
That 9.0 bat looks awesome, would love to see REAL run time test on a sawzall, grinder, and circ saw. It saw tool need to start AND stop fairly constantly to get an accurate idea of what the real run time will be. Almost never does someone run one tool without stopping ever for 175 cuts or whatever.
I would have loved to see a blower+hedge trimmer like ryobi’s 18v/110v option.
Pete
Although, i say a blower and hedge trimmer would be cool but I would rather own a outdoor equip platform that is all ecompassing. Blower, hedger, chain saw, tree trimmer, mower, maybe snow blower if i didnt live in vegas lol smart move for milwaukee IMO. But a good blower would be nice for jobsites
Richard G.
For job sites and even for regular home work, m18 blower is powerfull enough. Put it in third speed and it will blow away almost all leaves out of that stubborn grass )) First time I tried to use it, I didn’t see that it actually has a three speed, so I was frustrated and thought to return it, but after 5 minutes of torturing myself, I finally figured out that it can do different and it was a good blow after all. Try it.
jim
Given a choice between a 5ah battery and a 6ah battery ,I will take the 5ah
Since ,the 6ah battery is mostly using a samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mah 18650 which is rated at 15A continuous discharge ,where as the 5ah battery is using a samsung 2500mah battery rated at 20A ,continuous discharge(it can go as high as 30A for a few seconds).
Stuart
It’s not fair to make assumptions like that. Maybe there’s a INR18650-30R 3.0Ah pending wholesale release that can match 20-25A draw of similar 2.0Ah and 2.5Ah cells.
Milwaukee’s cordless director made it clear that they’d rather wait for the best cells of a given capacity than use whatever’s available in a race to be the first or second brand to reach an Ah milestone.
alan
Heat kills batteries right ?
Aside from what overheating protection it has built into Milwaukees batteries, how are the Rapid Charges acheived…Milwakee batteries are sealed. I presume faster charger means higher amps given. Amps=Heat. How doe heat dissipate out of a sealed battery…..just short of the small thermal loss from the plastic
BenB
So I got Makita’s rapid charger with the drill kit, it would be nice if Milwaukee includes their better charger with some kits.
Ari
The new m18 miter saw comes with a 9.0 battery and a rapid charger if you buy it that way rather than the bare tool. Mine is pre-ordered and I can expect it within the next two weeks. Thank you Dynamite Tool.com I can’t wait. I think the kits with the 9.0 come this way because of the charge times for the 9.0 If you really need rapid charging it just makes more sense to buy the rapid charging station separately, which I have. It can rapid charge 3 m12 or 3m18 or any combination of the two at the same time.
GVC
I sure appreciate Stuart’s knowledge; it seems unique among power tool review sites.
Very happy to see 5s3p batteries. Now without a separate system (36v or 2x18v), we have 3 categories of tools.
All this talk about Makita having better protection against heat… All my contractor colleagues who use Makita have batteries die. One has gone through 14 batteries. I have yet to hear of a red lithium battery dying, though I’m sure there are plenty of cases.
Ari
Well, like I have always said, Milwaukee is just doing it like nobody else. They actually R&D their batteries and packs and make their own. Many companies outsource their packs. (not just the cells which are always made by a battery company). Milwaukee also uses the best cells. Samsung or Panasonic. Many others use cheaper cells. Milwaukee deals with heat as well, they just do not need to make as much of an issue of it, they just make good packs. Just like how Dewalt calls their system a 20v max when it is really just a 18v system. The 20v max is because that is what the max voltage is after charging of an 18v system, but the operating voltage is still 18v. That is what so many other companies do as well. To try to sell themselves rather than just making a good product. Milwaukee puts in the protection which some others do not or do not do correctly. Much of Milwaukees heat dissipation could come from the larger metal contacts on the batteries rather than supposedly putting in vents etc. So these current carrying traces also serve as heat sinks. These contacts also carry current more efficiently providing more power and reduce heating up to start with. That is where they have actually gone and done research and testing. Maybe doing things others have not.
Jie
It’s not like matebo is making their own cells. I only know of two 3ah 18650 high output cells. The new Samsung 30a and lg hg2.
Codie Holland
Hi there,
Any idea on the weight of the 9.0Ah?
Marc Tani
Bonjour,
Poiuvez-vous me dire le prix d’une batterie milwaukee 9,0 ah ?
Merci,et cordialement.
Spencer
I have been wondering that myself. To date, the batteries have still not been released for sale – at least not in the US. I have been expecting them for some time now, but the 5.0ah batteries are the highest capacity for sale at this point.
megan
They were supposed to be releast january 2016. Its now april 2016 I I haven’t seen anything, whats going on?
Ari
Milwaukee will be releasing their 6.0 and 9.0 soon. I will have my first 9.0 in a couple of weeks with my m18 miter saw. It just took a little extra time to do it right. As far as selling them separately that may take a little longer, who knows.
jondwdwrkr
Does any one know when the 6.0 and 9.0 AH batteries being released?
Milwaukee tool Steve
I’m thinking more this summer I was talking to my rep. at my home depot and they were saying most likely this summer because it’s a little bigger than we thought.
Ari
I called milwaukee a few weeks ago and they told me that the 9.0 battery and the sds max hammer which were shown last summer are not being released until fall of 2016. I expressed my surprise since they were shown so long ago. One friend of an employee for milwaukee had a 9.0 battery on ebay for sale a few weeks ago slightly used in demos for 300.00 . This was clearly as a one of a kind thing pricing where he touted “be the first one the block to have one” The auction no longer appeared so I am not sure if it sold or he took it off. I should look for completed auctions. If it was 200 I would have bought it, but not for 300. That is silly in order to just not have to wait.
Stuart
I changed the ETA to “Later in 2016.”
I’ll check for the latest release date info.
Ari
I will be getting my first 9.0 with my m18 miter saw within 2 weeks from Dynamite tool.com
Drew
Sounds Great! So where can I buy one? Seems like a lot of talk but I cannot find one anywhere? Why is that?
Stuart
The 9Ah is coming out really soon, the 6Ah I’m not sure about.
Greensuperhero
In your tour of the battery department, or any other department did you happen to see whether or not Milwaukee leaves hand written bench test results near the battery terminals of each tool within the manufacturing process? I invested lots of money into these tools which have failed or malfunctioned within weeks of purchase (as new) and Milwaukee says they don’t write on their tools. I’m stumped and nobody has a good answer. Meanwhile, no working tools!