Milwaukee Tool is coming out with a new M18 Fuel dual battery blower, model 2824-20, which delivers up to 600 CFM of air volume and 145 mph max air speed.
As with the new Milwaukee M18 cordless mower, reviewed here, this new blower is dual battery-powered.
Milwaukee press materials mention the growing number of bans against gas engine leaf blowers, and how landscape maintenance companies have started to adopt battery-powered solutions.
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The new M18 Fuel dual battery cordless blower is designed to completely replace current handheld gas blowers, delivering on the power and performance professionals demand to get the job done.
The new M18 blower is quieter than typical gas engine blowers, with a noise rating of 64 dB(A), which should help users stay compliant with local noise level restrictions.
Other typical benefits of cordless outdoor power tools over gas engine tools include: no gas headaches, no pull start, no engine maintenance, no emissions, less vibration.
Milwaukee says this about the new dual battery power requirements:
To meet performance expectations in certain high-demand applications while maintaining system compatibility, this blower requires the simultaneous use of two M18 REDLITHIUM batteries.
They also add that:
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The blower is optimized for the use of M18 REDLITHIUM HIGH OUTPUT XC and HD batteries.
Following the pattern of prior M18 demanding tool releases, I would expect that users can use any M18 battery with the blower, but that maximum performance, runtime, and demanding use endurance requires adherence to the High Output battery recommendations.
In other words, the tool is optimize for use with M18 High Output batteries with 6.0Ah or greater capacity.
The new cordless blower looks to have been designed for landscaping professionals, but it can also be used in other environments, such as for jobsite cleanup.
It comes with two nozzle attachments – a flat/spreader nozzle, and a tapered/focusing nozzle.
Key Features & Specs
- M18 dual battery power
- Brushless motor
- 600 CFM max air volume
- 145 mph max air speed
- 17.7 Newtons blowing force
- 64 dB(A) noise rating
- Variable speed trigger
- Variable speed sliding lock-on lever
- Includes tapered nozzle and flat nozzle attachments
- Full throttle in less than one second
- 34.09″ L x 10.5″ H x 7.06″ W
- Weighs 6.01 lbs
Press materials also describe how the tool has an optimized tool balance which allows the blower nozzle to naturally point towards the ground, providing for reduced fatigue and the best clearing control.
They also say that, unlike other models, the blower delivers an output of 17.7 Newtons [of blowing force] and maintains that power level throughout the full discharge of the battery without drop-off. It also achieves full throttle in less than one second.
Price: $299 (tool-only)
ETA: August 2022
Discussion
This is now Milwaukee Tool’s second M18 dual battery cordless outdoor power tool solution, with this first being their recent lawn mower.
Do you think the M18 dual battery cordless OPE trend will continue?
Milwaukee Tool’s group president also recently teased about a new cordless snowblower that’s currently in development. I would bet that we’ll see an M18 Fuel dual battery solution, at the least.
Unpacking the press materials, there are quite a few power and performance benefits that seem tied to the dual battery requirement.
Retail listings include a chart that shows how the blower maintains its blowing force steadily throughout the batteries’ discharge cycle.
The battery power allows for consistent performance, short throttle delay, 145 mph max speed, and 600 CFM max volume.
The Gen 2 M18 Fuel blower delivers 120 mph max air speed, 450 CFM max volume, and is also said to reach full throttle in under 1 second.
The M18 Fuel dual battery blower is slightly larger than the Gen 2 single-battery tool, and a little more than a pound heavier (6.01 lbs vs. 4.9 lbs).
Looking at Milwaukee’s live product page, they add that:
Our blower provides the Highest Constant Power by delivering a power output higher than all handheld gas blowers.
So in addition to all of the typical cordless vs. gas engine benefits, the new M18 Fuel dual battery blower delivers more power than “all” handheld gas blowers? Dual battery power has its merits.
This blower isn’t perfectly suited for all users or applications, but I’m sure it will make a lot of heavier blower users quite happy.
Landscaping professionals around here still use gas engine blowers exclusively, but the increasing number of ordinances and restrictions around the country might change that soon. It will be interesting to see if Milwaukee will launch more M18 dual battery tools with such users in mind.
Jared
Interesting. I do see this as confirmation that Milwaukee’s approach to OPE power requirements exceeding the bounds of 18v batteries will be to use two of them. It’s not a bad compromise – though I personally don’t think the Metabo HPT / Dewalt Flexvolt approach isn’t near as much of an issue as non-users seem to think.
The specs for the size of the blower certainly seems impressive.
Jared
Just out of curiosity, do you have to use balanced batteries with dual-battery tools? E.g. could you power up the tool with a 2.0ah compact battery and a 9.0ah HO?
I assume in that case it would drain the 2.0ah first and then stop, but not damage anything (keeping it foolproof).
Stuart
I assume that it’s the same as with the M18 power station – you can mix and match batteries, but the runtime will be limited based on the lowest charge status of connected batteries.
So if powered by one 8Ah and one 12Ah battery (both fully charged), the tool will shut off when that 8Ah battery runs out of juice.
When pairing a compact 2Ah and 9Ah HD battery, you might be limited by the thermal endurance of the compact battery, in addition to max charge capacity.
Big Richard
Correct. And just for clarification, the 9.0Ah is NOT an HO battery. the HO batteries come in 3.0Ah, 6.0Ah, 8.0Ah, and 12.0Ah.
Louie Orama
Glad you put that up Big Richard. I have an HD 9.0, and I thought that mean HO as well.
Lance
Milwaukee is finally admitting they were wrong about 18v being everything to everyone forever, without actually admitting it, and resorting to the exact same solution Makita implemented 10 years ago.
Milwaukee are a proud bunch… good thing their marketing wank is so thick it’s difficult for many to see through, lol!
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Stuart
Makita was not first to use two battery packs in a single tool, Black & Decker had them beat by many years.
Dual battery tools are one approach to higher power, but not the only approach. Makita’s 18V X2 wasn’t without its limits, or they wouldn’t have had to create an entirely new and more modern 18V form factor 36V cordless system.
I don’t see this as Milwaukee backtracking or admitting they were wrong about anything. This was always an option available to them, and now there are reasons to expand down this path.
4 years ago I asked a Milwaukee VP about whether they were considering dual battery power for cordless solutions, and I was essentially told there weren’t immediate plans, but they had not ruled this out if need-be down the road.
Maybe we’ll see even more dual battery tools over the next few months or years. Or perhaps not.
Milwaukee Tool has a knack and preference for product branding, a la M18 Fuel, SURGE, Sawzall, Hackzall, Carry-on, Radius, and so forth. There’s no M18 X2 or M18 DualFuel or etc. branding yet, which I would assume would coincide with a broad push towards an extensive dual-branded lineup.
Lance
B&D? Ok, you got me, lol! I was thinking more along the lines of professional tools.
Milwaukee thrives on marketing. The silence around the release of 36v tools into their M18 lineup should tell you everything you need to know about their hypocrisy.
This the biggest thing to happen to M18 since it launched, and the marketing giant that is Milwaukee didn’t say a thing about 36v, and still hasn’t. It’s just M18, business as usual!
Stuart
What makes this hypocrisy? M18x2 doesn’t contradict anything that Milwaukee has ever said, publicly or off the record.
Brands are inspired by each other’s innovations all the time, and they also have their unique approaches.
Dual battery tools have always been a way for Milwaukee to instantly raise their power and performance ceiling if or when needed.
Dewalt can do the same with FlexVolt again.
What can Makita do anymore with 18V?
Bosch can go to 18Vx2, and Metabo HPT can go MultiVolt 36Vx2.
Makita XGTx2 has inherent advantages, but their having to reassure existing 18V users severely limits XGT potential.
Nothing comes close yet to Milwaukee MX Fuel.
Jared
I don’t know that I would go as far as you, but I think you might say Milwaukee avoided doubling-up batteries a little longer than they should…
Milwaukee did like to stress voltage wasn’t everything (https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-high-output-cordless-power-tool-tech/) and their impressive cooling and battery pack design pushed the limits of 18v very high.
It doesn’t seem like Milwaukee ever closed the door entirely on 18v x 2 though. They just argued they could achieve results similar to higher voltage tools without departing from the 18v platform. But… the ceiling has come. Users are complaining the biggest and baddest m18 batteries in high-draw tools are still overheating and falling short of higher voltage tools.
Compatibility does seem important to Milwaukee, thus M18 x2 is an obvious answer.
While Makita might have gone there first – they needed to. LXT’s ceiling came first.
Randy
Historical background: In 2012 Makita released the first cordless tool powered by two lithium-ion batteries. And earlier, in 2005 Makita created their 18V LXT Lithium-ion platform. These same batteries are compatible today, in 2022. 17 years, Same batteries, platform still supported with new tools being introduced.
I am curious if any other cordless tool manufacturer has a more stable platform in terms of years or battery compatibility.
Big Richard
Sometimes innovation requires disrupting that stability. If there was a big brand that was still pumping out old NiCad powered tools for the past 30 years, would you praise them for their stability? Or rather constructively criticize them for not updating to better technology to better compete with other brands?
Not disagreeing with what you are saying or knocking Makita in any way (they make fantastic tools), just offering a different viewpoint one may have of sticking with the same old technology.
Kent_Skinner
If there was a big brand pumping out tools that still works with 25 year old NiCads they’d be called Ryobi.
I tend to buy tools in a higher price range than Ryobi, but I bet a lot of people appreciate being able to use new batteries with old tools.
Lance
Makita is using lithium ion batteries like everyone else, just that they’ve been going it longer than anyone and have held onto their battery platform without having to replace it.
The only thing left for Makita to do is release 21700 based 18v LXT batteries. I’m sure the reason is 100% marketing, not wanting to compromise the adoption of the new XGT platform.
Jared
If that’s an argument in favor of Makita being the best choice because of consistency, I think the counterpoint is that LXT’s lifecycle seems to be coming to an end. Not this year or the next, but it’s on the horizon now.
The problem is that LXT x2 isn’t reaching the highest-highs of Milwaukee and Dewalt anymore. Makita has launched a new, incompatible line of tools and batteries to solve that problem.
That doesn’t make LXT obsolete – Makita has such a broad catalogue of LXT tools that there’s no reason to think it will suddenly stop production. But there are places Dewalt and Milwaukee can go that Makita’s LXT can’t follow.
XRH07
Makita isn’t pricing XGT in any way to indicate LXT is on the way out.
Jared
I’m not claiming LXT is dying. I specifically said “That doesn’t make LXT obsolete”.
LXT has reached a limit other brands have surpassed though. In fact, so has Makita itself – with XGT. However, XGT is an entirely separate platform (minus the one-way battery charger compatibility).
This thread chain started with a comment about LXT’s long lasting stability. Knowing there are tools LXT can never make because of the power requirements seems relevant – isn’t that how nearly all battery platforms die?
I think LXTs power limits hint that it is likely to be the next major cordless battery platform to die. If that is ten years away because it is plenty good enough for 90% of the tools in Makita’s catalogue? Still more likely to end than Milwaukee M18, Dewalt 20v Max – even Bosch with it’s “profactor” “core” “biturbo” high output batteries.
aaron s
Ryobi One+ came out in 1996 and is still going
Collin
How much does stability matter though? It’s not as if DeWalt became a second-tier tool brand even after their:
a) 40-volt OPE debacle
b) FlexVolt tools that don’t work with 20-volt tool batteries
c) Transition from 18v NiCad to 20v lithium form factors
It seems to me that the only two brands emphasizing complete, 100% compatibility are:
1) Ryobi
2) Milwaukee
Every other brand, including all the “performance” brands, has no qualms about releasing tools and batteries that aren’t 100% backwards compatible.
Phil
Happy to see Milwaukee doing more 2 x 18v.
Not impressed with Milwaukee HO tools on one battery. To much heat damaging batteries. Okay for small jobs… it’s a lot of battery and charger management. For HO work… 60v is king.
Munklepunk
Ryobi has needed to change their platform for a long time, they could easily swap to slide on batteries. Just do what DeWalt does and sell an adapter kit. 18v batteries that side into the handle have been phased out by nearly every brand for a reason.
Bob
Why does Ryobi “need” to change their platform? The current battery style works just fine, unless you have tiny hands. Do you have tiny hands? If so, stick with DeWalt.
MM
At some point the electrical current rating (amps) of the contacts between the battery and the tool will become a bottleneck that will limit the performance of the tools.
That interface was designed many years ago when Ni-Cd batteries were the norm. No doubt Ryobi’s engineers called for a spec that took into account future needs to a certain degree but at some point that’s going to become a problem.
XRH07
if you ignore all of Milwaukee’s failings. Sure.
V18, V28 and M28 not being mentioned while you peg Dewalt for the 18V to 20V form factor change just reeks of intellectual dishonesty.
MM
The 40V OPE certainly was a debacle but I don’t think the other two were.
Flexvolt tools may not work with 20V batteries, but the fact that Flexvolt batteries still work on 20V tools places makes the Flexvolt line more attractive and more flexible. It’s not a disadvantage for Dewalt that you can’t run a Flexvolt tool with a 20V Batt–that’s standard for all cordless platforms, none of them allow a higher voltage tool to run on a lower voltage battery. However it IS a disadvantage for Milwaukee that I can’t run an M18 tool on an MX battery. It’s a disadvantage for Makita that I can’t run an LXT tool on an XGT pack. And so on.
As for Dewalt’s handling of the old 18V platform, I think they did a great job on that. They offered 18V NiCd batts LONG after other most others brands stopped supporting their old NiCd platforms. And they still offer a reasonably priced adapter to use 20V max batts on the 18V tools. That’s much better than could be said about the old 18V Ni-Cd Milwaukee platform.
Really it’s only Ryobi offering that kind of support; Milwaukee has a number of old cordless platforms it is not supporting anymore.
Stuart
I wouldn’t call Dewalt 40V Max a debacle. In my opinion, it was a good idea, in theory. Maybe the timing wasn’t right, maybe they couldn’t or wouldn’t give it the retail visibility it needed, or maybe it simply wasn’t adopted fast enough.
As for Milwaukee MX Fuel, they made it clear it wasn’t just about bigger batteries, but that the M18 interface, while robust, was simply not designed for such equipment.
How many other cordless power tool brands’ 18V-sized batteries can power a jackhammer?
In a vacuum, Makita XGT makes a lot of sense. But it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it exists in a world of many 18V system users. XGT is a 36V battery with 18V form factor. Why wouldn’t they release an adapter?! Metabo HPT launched a new 36V MultiVolt battery with an 18V form factor, and it fits their 18V tools. Dewalt has 60V Max FlexVolt batteries that switch to 20V Max operation to fit and power 20V Max tools.
The way I see it, Makita has 3 options. Replace 18V with XGT. Try to develop and maintain two separate 18V-sized battery platforms, neither offering complete solutions on their own – this is what they seem to be doing now. Or, split the systems down the middle with 18V filling needs XGT cannot, such as with lower price point and value-focused SKUs we see every holiday season and occasionally in between.
Ryobi maintains long-term compatibility because they know DIYers keep their tools for a very long time. They cannot modernize their interface or batteries without angering their loyal customer base.
No brand has a universally-superior cordless battery system right now; each has its own limitations.
Stuart
No, Makita was NOT the first power tool brand to do this.
Black & Decker had dual-battery cordless power tools many years earlier.
And, all Makita 18V batteries were NOT compatible with all Makita 18V tools. A bunch of their tools weren’t compatible starting with their 4Ah batteries (2013), and I will always remember this because, rather than clarifying things, a Makita USA manager screamed at me over the phone for having the nerve to ask questions. At the time, Makita announced that tools with a yellow battery connection plate or star symbol were compatible, but Makita USA wouldn’t explicitly specify which tools were not compatible, or if there was a production year cut-off.
If I remember correctly, you could only use Makita’s older compact batteries with a very limited selection of white-color-scheme compact tools. Everything else required 10-cell batteries 3Ah and up.
Makita also completely discontinued and replaced their 12V Max system a few years ago for an entirely new and incompatible form factor.
And, Makita hit a power/performance ceiling with 18V, and are unable/unwilling to launch high output-style batteries to raise that ceiling, leading them to launch an entirely separate 18V form-factor 36V system, XGT.
Makita has some good ideas, but their cordless systems are far from being describable as the epitome of “stable form factor.”
All modern brands have their battery system nuances.
Randy
“ In 2012 Makita released the first cordless tool powered by two lithium-ion batteries.”
“ No, Makita was NOT the first power tool brand to do this.”
Earlier Black and Decker dual-battery cordless tools did not use Lithium-ion batteries.
Randy
A couple additional thoughts.
The 4 3Amp Makita batteries that were included in my kit in 2006 are compatible with every LXT tool made from 2005 to present. Of my initial 4 batteries, 3 are still in service. Each, when put on the Makita battery analyzer at a local repair center, currently register between 1500-1700 charge cycles and are still functioning Any current Makita 3Amp or lower battery will work on all LXT tools since 2005.
On early tools, before the Star Protection, only batteries up to 3a can slide into the tool without tool modification. This is because the tool did not regulate peak input amperage. As you are probable aware, a simple and common modification to the slide interconnect could be made to accept higher amperage batteries. For many products, like a radio or light there is no motor and zero risk of overdraw. For other, I have modified early drills, impacts, circ saws and recip saws without any adverse effect. The tools still perform flawlessly. Makita engineers were being overly cautious.
I am not a fan of higher amperage batteries. The higher the amperage, the longer it takes to charge and the less you can have for the same dollar investment. I would rather have 2 5amp batteries and 2 spares, then only 2 9amp batteries. I can keep a 18v x2 tool running. Or have 4 tools with batteries in them. Regardless of platform, higher amperage batteries have a reputation of overheating. A tool with a single high amperage battery will have a higher probability to overheat the battery and shut down sooner than either a dual battery tool or a tool swapping 2, 5a batteries (because the 2nd battery is fresh and cool)
I find it humorous to see people with 9a and 12a batteries in a $40 flashlight or $30 USB charger.
Phil
Well. Makita had to take a hit of a fine to pay Milwaukee on using lithium ion battery tool tec. Patent infringed.
Makita also first gen lithium was literally not stable. If the trigger of a tool was accidentally kept on… like in a tool bag on a truck… it burned the truck to ground. From no hi limit shut off.
Stuart
It wasn’t just their first-gen tools; Makita’s first brushless hammer drill (2012) also didn’t have thermal shut-off.
https://toolguyd.com/makita-brushless-hammer-drill-is-smokin-hot-literally/
A lot of earlier Li-ion cordless tools could be pushed to overload/overtemp conditions.
Collin
Did you ever figure out if that TIA sample was a dud or was this a widespread issue? I’m not sure what to conclude based on that article and the comments.
Stuart
I asked Makita about this at the time, and all they would say is something like “real pros wouldn’t use their tools like that.”
I think it was inherent to the design, as opposed to being a random defect. That wouldn’t fly today, but wasn’t out of the ordinary back then.
Clayton
Would have rather seen this in a backpack blower form.
Doresoom
They actually filed a patent for an M18 X2 backpack blower in 2020: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020264290A1/en
I was surprised to see the handheld version press release this morning.
TomD
I’m wondering if we’ll see a backpack that takes a MX Fuel battery and has a cord/connector to attach to various dual M18 OPE tools. Could work (maybe).
Bill
Is it safe to assume that the blower motor is running at 18 volts and not 36?
Chris
It’s 36V. You wouldn’t be able to pull this much power from a single battery.
Also, the tool cannot work without both batteries. If they were in parallel, it would be possible, but not when they are in series.
Bill
The two batteries in series gives you 36 volts, in parallel you get 18.
Bill
Oops, I meant to say that I assume the blower motor runs at 36v and not 18v. The same as their lawn mower does.
Chris
Any pictures or news of attachments?
It looks like this has attachment rails/clips on the nose of the tool.
Big Richard
You can see them here: https://www.toolnut.com/milwaukee-2824-20-m18-fuel-18v-dual-battery-blower-tool-only.html
Chris
Sweet, looks like bigger versions of the M12 model.
Thanks.
Stuart
Added them to the post.
TomD
I wonder if the old one will be updated with the new pipe and tips or left to rot.
Sean
The way the batteries mount is interesting, it looks like it was just clobbered together as an afterthought. I wonder if this was originally meant to be an MX tool, or single M18 battery.
Rog
I wondered the same thing, that battery area looks really funky.
Jared
I bet it has as much to do with tool balance as anything else.
However, there might actually be an advantage with this design in that it would keep things from blocking the intake port. E.g. if I’m wearing a loose jacket or something I’ve definitely sucked it into the intake before on my Dewalt.
With the footrest cage on the bottom and the battery spaced back from the intake, loose clothing shouldn’t get sucked in.
Koko The Talking Ape
The batteries have to be in the back for balance, but can’t block the air intake. So there’s a gap between the batteries and the air intake, which looks weird. Is that what you mean?
Sean
I’m looking more at how the battery connection just looks like some kind of adapter slapped onto the tool. And how the rear of the tool is extra wide, seemingly to accommodate a bigger battery, but not quite wide enough to fit two batteries so they made a weird, slightly wider adapter thing to stick on the bottom of it.
It basically doesn’t give the impression that it’s a ground-up design made to fit those two batteries side-by-side.
Koko The Talking Ape
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I see what you mean! It looks like they meant for it to take one battery, then they realized they needed two, so they added a kind of adapter.
aaron s
I think another factor on that is the different sizes on the M18 batteries. I bet it looks a lot more natural when you put 2 12ah batteries in there. That’s how you get big beefy shoulders!
Collin
I’m not sure how this tool is supposed to appeal to professional landscapers, which is ostensibly Milwaukee’s target audience. That being said, Milwaukee is also very much a lifestyle and upper-crust homeowner tool brand now as well, and I could very well see homeowners buying this tool at Home Depot.
It seems to me that a professional would prefer a backpack battery type system or a backpack blower.
I can’t imagine that a professional’s wrists will be happy carrying around a blower with 2 chunky high-output batteries attached.
With 2 of the HO batteries, this thing is clocking in around the weight of other more powerful single-battery handheld blowers.
Also, why is this 40V max Milwaukee thing only 600 CFM/145 MPH? That’s just sad. The Ryobi 40V blower, the 2nd most powerful handheld blower in the industry, hits 730cfm/190mph.
You’d think that with 2 high-output batteries and up to 30 (!!) 21700 cells powering this tool, it’d blow the pants off the Ryobi 40V blower or at least match it. The Ryobi 40v blower comes with their 4.0 40v battery, which appears to be using 20 18650 cells.
Collin
I guess this would have been a missed opportunity for Milwaukee engineers to break the corporate firewall and consult with their Ryobi counterparts about engineering a blower for professionals that doesn’t land mid-pack in performance.
Jared
Milwaukee is claiming stable max performance though. E.g. compared to the “56v competitor”, the M18 x2 blower stays at the same airspeeds.
While the Ryobi might hit 730/190, maybe it starts falling below the new M18 x2 after 5 minutes?
Collin
I guess that’s one way they can spin the story to give themselves a W, sort of like when they say their tools are “the most powerful in its class” when they really mean “most powerful in its voltage class, and please don’t compare us to the DeWalt FlexVolt equivalent.”
That constant power graph is also lacking context. What batteries are used to get 15 minutes of constant blowing force? That graph almost certainly won’t hold true for regular batteries. Only for HO batteries, and more than likely HO batteries larger than the 3.0 HO.
It also appears that in the graph, they are testing the Milwaukee against the 765CFM/200MPH Ego in Turbo mode. The only way the Ego breaches 20 Newtons of blowing force is with Turbo activated–see the Pro Tool Reviews article where they test the 765 Ego with a Newton force gauge. I don’t think any Milwaukee blower has a Turbo button or similar. Of course holding down a separate button on a blower called “Turbo” is going to run down the batteries faster and make it extremely difficult for the blower to operate at a constant Newton force.
It would be interesting to see how the Ego does w/o Turbo mode and on its high setting–I suspect that the Ego would have a similarly flat line.
Collin
According to PTR, the Ego on high w/o turbo hits 15.9N of blowing force. W/ Turbo it hits 25-26N depending on the battery.
So, it’s impressive that Milwaukee manages to get to 17.7N, at least in Milwaukee’s lab. As the PTR article itself states–blowing force is influenced by “Temperature, humidity, pressure, and other environmental factors affect force, and we typically see somewhat higher numbers in warmer months.”
I highly suspect that the Ego 765, in Milwaukee’s lab, without the Turbo functionality being engaged, would be able to hold its blowing force constant. And if not, it’s not really that hard of a change to do so in the next generation of Ego blowers–just have the motor request a relatively narrow range of watts from the battery and shut down the whole circus if the battery fails to provide that narrow range of watts so the blowing force curve isn’t compromised.
Dave
Please don’t ever refer to a Milwaukee product again as 40V max (or 20V max). That is marketing bs reserved for Stanley Black & Decker.
Big Richard
What’s worse is when people call their 10.8V line “12 volt”. Can’t stand that.
Stuart
Fun fact – I learned that Milwaukee M12 used to have a 12V nominal voltage, as opposed to 10.8V. I spoke to a Milwaukee VP a few years ago, regarding how M12 seems to reflect “max” voltage naming, and M18 “nominal” voltage, and was told that they had originally developed the lineup with different battery technology that had a 12V operating voltage. I don’t recall if the tools were ever launched with that battery, but they now use 3.6V Li-ion cells for 10.8V nominal.
Regarding 10.8V vs 12V Max, Bosch went over to 12V in Europe. Not 12V Max, but just 12V.
Anyway, historically, brands shifted from 10.8V to 12V at different times.
Dewalt started with 12V Max and then 20V Max for the new system was done by the same logic. They argued it was to avoid user confusion, but they went with 18V XR in Europe and elsewhere outside of North America.
Anyway, Stanley Black & Decker might have been the first to go with 20V Max, but other brands led the charge with “12V Max” nomenclature.
Bosch switched to 12V Max at least as of March, 2010. Their March, 2010 launches were 12V Max-branded.
Dewalt announced their new 12V Max system in June, 2010.
Makita announced new 12V Max tools and the naming switch in November, 2010.
Dewalt announced 20V Max in June, 2011.
So, if you want to point fingers, that’s fine, but I’d say that Stanley Black & Decker followed but didn’t start the “Max” voltage trend.
Dave
Uh oh. 😬
I guess M10.8 doesn’t have quite the same ring to it. Sounds more like a metric thread pitch.
Either way, I’m embarrassed that I didn’t know that. 🤦🏻♂️
TomD
Still kind of sad they went with MX FUEL instead of M80 – but perhaps a bit explosive 🧨 for their marketing department. 💥
XRH07
Then that VP was just making up straight BS. Lol. And Milwaukee still has no issue, like Dewalt, using incorrectly calculated Wh figures using 12V Max as a figure after all these years. A 4.0 Ah 12V battery is not 48 Wh. Even Makita with 12V/40V platforms provides the correct Wh figures using a nominal voltage. There is no other way to, correctly, calculate such a value.
V18 launched with a different type of cell and was later abandoned for M18 and 18650s. M12 came later yet and there’s never been any Li-Ion cell that could’ve fit the strict form factor and provided 4V nominal voltage. They never used anything but 18650s since the line was launched, so anything that may have “planned” prior is meaningless.
Milwaukee has never actually designed their own cells in conjunction with anyone else since Molicel/26700 with the V18 either. With M12/M18 they’ve just taken whatever LG, Samsung, Sony/Murata and Sanyosonic have had as an off the shelf type part. They weren’t the first to use 18650s, 20700s, 21700s or pouch cells.
Phil
20 v max was do differ it from the ni CAD 18v line. Not marketing.
If u read a tool label on a tool it will say nominal voltage and max voltage.
Max is higher when pressing switch
Stuart
Where did you hear that from?
“Max voltage” is typically the straight-off-the-charger voltage.
As soon as you apply a load, that “max” voltage drops close to the nominal voltage, and then gradually diminishes as the battery discharges.
At a certain low-cutoff voltage, the battery needs to be recharged.
Pressing the switch, or applying a load, often causes a voltage drop, not an increase, at least not to my knowledge that I have ever seen.
In physical terms, voltage is the electric potential energy per unit charge.
Let’s say you have your arms stretched out and someone gives you a 50 pound rock to hold. Does the potential energy increase or decrease? (Potential energy of a mass is related to its height and gravitational acceleration.) Your arms will drop a little, until you stabilize the load.
So when you press that trigger switch on a tool, the battery’s voltage might dip, although the reasons are different than with the weight.
The voltage of a battery dropping with load is why a low voltage shutoff might trigger when you’re using the tool, but then it will work again momentarily when you try again a minute later. Part of that could also be due to battery temperature under load.
12V Max, 20V Max, 40V Max, and so forth, has always been about marketing and user/shopper perception.
To the unfamiliar, 20V Max sounds better than 18V, 12V Max sounds better than 10.8V, 40V Max sounds better than 36V.
Phil
Yes. Sorry. I simply had it backwards. In short though… not really for marketing..more for 2 different tool lines… was orginal point
Josh
It frustrates me that it needs 2 batteries. Yes, I have those batteries, but when you are done using this tool, now you have 2 to charge. I can’t charge 2 at once, so now its going to take twice as long to charge. Plus all the extra time of me forgetting to swap the batteries in the charger.
I would rather buy a completely different brand that uses 1 battery that I have to remember to charge than 2.
Luke
Just buy their main model that takes 1 battery. If you’re going to get frustrated at every product that doesn’t cater to your very limited/specific needs… well that just sounds like an exhausting way to live. Some people want or need this. You don’t, and that’s okay.
TomD
I’m assuming this is aimed squarely at the lawn mower purchasers who now have a dual rapid charger (it charges both at once) 🔌
MM
In my opinion someone who is considering a dual-battery blower (as opposed to a single battery model) from a professionally oriented brand is probably not the average homeowner. Either they are a professional, they have an unusually large yard, or they are a serious enthusiast aka “prosumer”. Such a customer likely already has an investment in the M18 platform for other tools and/or OPE, and if that’s they case they are quite likely to have multiple M18 chargers. I do not use the M18 platform but I am on M12 and 20V Max Dewalt, and I have several extra chargers for both platforms simply as leftovers from tool purchases. I’m betting that many M18 customers are likely to have a spare charger or two lying around.
Nathan
So it’s the same relative specs as the ECHO 58V tool that TTI also made – but that ran at 58V with a 4AH battery that actuallyhad 14 cells in it. ( still have mine)
it was very strong. No way to get that sort of push without significant power draw. Dewalts big blower does it with 54V to a fan that pushes a strong impeller. Makita did it also with 36V.
So no way milwaukee could do the same without have more voltage or significant current draw – no not a surprise to see this is X2
Cristian
Meanwhile my Ryobi is a much better blower…
OldDominionDIYer
730CFM 190MPH and only 57db. Ryobi has had a blower with these specs for nearly a year, this is the best Milwaukee can do? I can’t hide the fact I’m disappointed. Oh and it doesn’t fall off, it’s solid almost to the end. It was independently tested and verified so while it may sound like fluff it delivered.
neandrewthal
The Ryobi is 730CFM OR 190MPH. A bit of marketing changed that OR to AND. But it’s only 190MPH with the “speed tip” attached.
Big Richard
I have a feeling this Milwaukee is the same. The 145mph rating is probably with the concentrator nozzle on, and the 600CFM is with no nozzle.
Collin
Hopefully next year when the Milwaukee pouch lithium cells come out they can do away with these M18x2 tools and stick with using a single battery to output 2000+ watts.
It would have been a boon for Milwaukee to have released pouch cells sooner but since they didn’t, they’re pretty much stuck between a) being even more late to the market with higher-power tools that other platforms generally have and b) backpedaling on M18x2 releasing M18x2 tools.
I seriously wonder if this 3rd generation blower will have the same lifespan as the 1st gen M18 blower, which only lasted like 8 months before being replaced by the 2nd generation M18 blower, largely because the performance of the 1st gen M18 blower was very questionable, with one review saying that it had the “dubious honor” of being slightly more powerful than a Black&Decker.
Dave
There was a design flaw with the 1st gen M18 blower. They could catch on fire if snow was sucked into the intake.
My guess is THIS is why it was phased out so quickly.
Collin
Really? I have never heard of that. A Google search for “2728-20 fire” also yields no results. I’ve read pretty much every review of the M18 gen2 blower and none of them mention anything about fire. I recall that the gen1 was even on clearance after the gen2 was released. Seems to me that a fire risk would be returned to the vendor.
Dave
We had a few come back as returns for that reason, with physical evidence of such.
The specs between gen1 and gen2 are nearly identical…if I remember correctly, gen2 cfm was the same but gained 20 mph due to the increased taper on the nozzle.
Given those two bits of info, that is why I assumed the “update” to gen2.
XRH07
Pouch cells were never going to stop the move to 18V X2.
The 12.0 already pushes close to 2,000W. Samsung 40T = 3.6V x 35A x 15 cells =1890W. 18V @ ~100A is already pushing the envelope in terms of winding your motors along with the necessary electronics.
Sticking to 18V and pushing more and more Amps was never tenable. Milwaukee just never wanted to admit it. Now it’s all the people who spent years scoffing at Flexvolt and X2 that have a tough time realizing they were wrong all along.
You aint getting 2″ class SDS Max hammers like Dewalt and Makita have by sticking to 18V and just pumping more amps from a Pouch cell. There’s also a reason Ingersoll Rand’s 1″ impact wrench thrashed the Milwaukee equivalent while only having about 2/3 the potential power envelope AND while using 18650 cells.
The writing was always on the wall.
Collin
100% agree. Milwaukee just never wanted to admit that 18 volts would never be enough in the long run. Milwaukee just kept upping and upping the amps they pulled from battery packs, at the expense of battery health. Pulling an insane amount of amps to compete worked well enough to cover up the performance gap between M18 and FlexVolt for the average Milwaukee fanboy.
But now the performance ceiling has been demolished by every other platform. The gap is increasing and only going to increase. Makita XGT recip saw is crushing the M18 Super Sawzall. Metabo HPT recip saw is crushing the M18 Super Sawzall. FlexVolt grinders have been destroying M18 grinders for years. Rear handle saws–the only merit to the M18 is that at least it works with your current M18 batteries? There are plenty of more powerful circ saws from DeWalt, Flex, etc. SDS max hammers–M18 hasn’t even been in the conversation for years how. Like you said, if you want the highest performance SDS hammer, then DeWalt is the way to go. Even impact wrenches–Milwaukee’s traditional strength–are demonstrating that higher voltage is the way to go. M18 simply cannot keep up at 18 volts at the higher end of the impact wrench spectrum (3/4″ and especially 1″).
Milwaukee reminds me of Intel in 2003-2005. Intel was getting destroyed by AMD in terms of performance. Intel’s response was just to keep upping and upping the clock speeds on their processors to squeeze out pyrrhic victories over AMD’s offerings. Sure, an insanely high-clocked Intel chip could beat AMD chips in certain scenarios, but at the expense of running insanely hot.
Intel finally, in 2006, had to wipe the slate clean and release a completely new architecture that had basically nothing in common with its direct predecessor. Instead, Intel went back in time and released a new architecture that had more in common with some older processors.
Milwaukee is in the same shoes as Intel in 2005. Runs hot and runs worse than competitors. Still good enough to retain market share and mindshare, but that’s about it.
I like my Milwaukee M12 tools but I’ve sold my M18 stuff a while ago and have been generally avoiding M18 tools (other than their excellent line of jobsite lighting). I have nearly every M18 lighting solution. I saw the writing on the wall. M18 is a dead-end platform the way Milwaukee is treating it: still no pouch cells, still squeezing insane amperages out of poor abused battery cells, and now moving to clunky M18x2 tools. Milwaukee likes to pretend that it’s innovative but all they’re doing with M18 is propping up a legacy platform with bandaid solutions like abusing batteries and backtracking on their previous no x2 proclamations.
Instead, I prefer Makita LXT–they have a vast line of 18v tools just like Milwaukee and it’s continually expanding with interesting tools, such as their LXT cooler (which I ordered from Japan). I prefer Flex, for being the newcomer to the market and bringing some serious performance + innovation. Ego 56v for lawn tools as they’re seriously innovative as well and high-performance. Ryobi 18v for cheap beater tools like jobsite fans. Don’t need a fancy $99 M18 fan that is built-to-fail with oilite bushings instead of proper bearings and a 1-year warranty.
David
What I can’t figure out are the claims that milwaukee has overheating problems. I’ll make multiple full depth 8ft rips with the circular saw and the motor and electronics are stone cold. Even with pushing the chainsaw doesn’t seem to generate much heat. Maybe people actually work there tools harder idk.
neandrewthal
Given the choice, I honestly think I’d just hold one single battery blower in each hand. I’d feel more balanced and could really direct the flow where I wanted it. All for about the same price.
Wags
I love this! I suspect there will be a few used single battery models on the market soon for a good price. Might have to look into this option. You would also have more control over a larger area of debris.
Rx9
I wonder if they are going to make MX Fuel OPE. There are certainly big enough budgets to afford it at the pro landscaper level.
This is a good start, though. I think after years of seeing Makita work out the bugs of double battery tools, Milwaukee is ready to jump in for the applications where the clunky form factor makes sense.
Rx9
Slightly off topic, I wonder how many MX fuel batteries you’d need to power an Alta Redshift or Stark Varg. That would really put the MX in MX fuel, so to speak…
Collin
I think Milwaukee has been hesitant to release any MX Fuel OPE because it would create a pretty big bifurcation in their line of “professional” OPE tools.
Right now Milwaukee ostensibly thinks that professionals can get by with their 18×2 lawn mower, their Fuel string trimmer, their Fuel powerhead+edger, their Fuel powerhead+pole saw, and their Fuel 3/4″ hedge trimmer.
Throwing out an MX Fuel powered mower would just complicate people’s decision-making process. Do I get the M18 mower that uses the same batteries as every single other one of my OPE tools … or do I step into a completely different platform for just ONE tool? I think that throwing out an MX Fuel mower would be viewed as a vote of “no confidence” in the M18 platform to adequately power professionals’ landscaping needs, and therefore make professional landscapers wary of further investing into the M18 platform. Why buy M18 gear if Milwaukee is going to release higher-performance MX Fuel OPE gear in the next year or so? Should I wait for higher-performance Milwaukee MX Fuel OPE, or should I just get a different platform altogether, like Makita XGT, with its 1″ hedge trimmers, or Ego, with its 1″ hedge trimmers, industry-leading handheld blower, etc.?
Harrison
I think you’re onto something here. How many pro landscaping teams are really going to run hand-held OPE that isn’t orange, with a local dealer/repair network?
If your business is cutting grass, why would you care if your batteries can also be used with a drill or circular saw?
I suspect most buyers of ‘Power tool brand’ OPE are not pro landscapers at all… mostly trades/craftspeople, or DIYers who already have the batteries, using the OPE for their personal properties.
Moving to MX Fuel would totally abandon that easy sell, and move the products into a totally different price bracket.
‘Professional Grade’ or not, Milwaukee, Dewalt etc OPE are lifestyle products, and that will guide the marketing and engineering decisions.
Milwaukee! The plumber/electrician’s favourite lawnmower!
Stuart
Maybe, but there are risks there. Maybe a riding mower, snow blower, or multi-use cart would be nice.
I think that everyone is looking at Dewalt’s short-lived 40V Max cordless OPE system as a cautionary tale.
neandrewthal
MX Fuel XC batteries have the same Wh as 2 M18 12.0 batteries. They can maybe provide 50% more power (1/3 more cells and slightly higher power per cell) and will have slightly higher delivered Wh under high loads. but we don’t want OPE tools that draw that much power or we’re talking 6 minute run times.
Oleg K
I love Milwaukee, but, even I will admit the obvious: Dewalt achieved the same with a single battery, theirs also looks better than this monstrosity. I think they should have gone with a single 40v battery would have made infinitely more sense, be more compact and probably lighter.
Stuart
Consider what happened to Dewalt’s 40V Max system. A higher voltage and larger format battery system is not always a practical answer.
Phil
Milwaukee hi output tools are just okay compared to the competition. Good for small jobs.
I just finally figured out why my super charger was acting up. It’s well made… but cheaped out on the fan. The coupling on fan and motor broke on mine. No fan no battery charging.
Beans
I bought a 450cfm Milwaukee blower and was completely underwhelmed compared to a gas Stihl. I don’t think 1/3 more flow and 50% more weight is a real upgrade. We need something that compares to a top of the line EGO even if it means going to a different Milwaukee battery standard.
Charles
I’ll almost certainly buy it. To the people wondering why not a backpack, you clearly aren’t pros… I have 3 Stihl backpack blowers. They are a minor pain to use. For most of what we do the regular m18 blower is fine. An upgraded version of that would be awesome.
I have to make people use the Stihls so they don’t sit. There are still going to be use cases for them, but I’ll seriously check into selling them if the m18 is good enough.