Milwaukee Tool introduced a new M18 Fuel rear handle 7-1/4″ circular saw at NPS19, model 2830, adding to their lineup of M18 carpentry and remodeling tools.
The newest Milwaukee brushless cordless circular saw is designed for heavy duty cutting applications. Milwaukee says that it “generates 15A corded power,” and that it can even perform “faster than a corded saw.”
There are two major types of circular saws: those with direct motor drives (also known as sidewinder saws), and rear-handle worm drive saws.
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Worm drive-style circular saws have the blade on the left, and are usually more powerful, but run at lower RPMs due to the worm drive gearing. The motor, and therefore the weight of the saw, is behind the blade rather than next to it. One style isn’t necessarily better than another, it can be a matter of personal preference, but generally worm drive and worm drive-style circular saws are favored for heavy duty cutting.
The new Milwaukee M18 Fuel rear-handle circular saw is targeted at blade-left, worm drive saw users. While technically a direct-drive saw without worm drive gearing, the new M18 Fuel saw maintains the narrow profile and ergonomics of worm drive saws, not to mention the expectation of heavy duty cutting power.
The new Milwaukee cordless rear handle circular saw accepts 7-1/4″ blades with a diamond arbor. It spins the blade at 5800 RPM and an electronic blade brake stops the blade within moments of releasing trigger.
The saw has a cut capacity of 2-1/2″ at 90° and 1-7/8″ at 45°. Milwaukee claims the saw can make 570 2×4 cuts with a HD12.0 battery.
The base can be adjusted to a bevel angle from 0 to 53°.
The new cordless saw is meant to be used with a M18 HD12.0 High Output battery, but Milwaukee claims it’ll work with any M18 battery. Built with cast magnesium and plastic construction, the saw weighs 13.4 lbs with an HD12.0 battery, and the bare tool weighs 10 lbs without a battery.
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Other features include a zero-maintenance gearbox, LED worklight that illuminates the work surface and cut-line, and a large multi-size rafter hook on the right side.
The kit (2830-21HD) comes with the saw, an M18 HD12.0 battery, rapid charger, general purpose framing blade, and contractor bag. The press kit photos show what looks to be a dust port vacuum adapter. A bare tool is also available (2830-20).
ETA: July 2019
Price: $269 bare tool, $449 kit
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Below I’ve linked to a presentation of the M18 Fuel rear handle circular saw. We included two short action demos showing how the saw performs under two different cutting situations – cutting through an LVL, and cutting full depth into a stack of OSB sheets. (You can skip to 1:07 if you just want to see the cutting demos.)
Discussion
A close look at the saw shows a single screw holding a cover plate over the dust port. In the kit photo above you can see a vacuum adapter that appears to fit into the same spot as the cover plate. It’s great that Milwaukee added a way to hook this saw up to dust collection, but how much use will this port get on a saw designed primarily for framing?
This saw was designed to be used with the HD12.0 battery and is probably best paired with one of their High Output battery backs, but it will still supposedly run on a CP 2.0Ah pack. If our experience with the table saw and chainsaw hold true, you’re probably not going to cut into a stack of OSB with one, but maybe it’ll let you finish a few 2×4 cuts while your bigger batteries are charging.
We shot some video of the saws cutting performance, but Joe Canning (@canadiancarpenter) took this to a whole other level in the following video on Instagram where he is purposely trying to stall the saw by cutting a circle.
It takes him a while, but he eventually stalls the saw. This was the only time I saw the saw stall. People were cutting an LVL lengthwise and running it full depth in a stack of OSB, pushing it hard, and the saw handled it all without issue.
What does this mean for jobsite performance? What does it mean to cut faster than a corded saw? This really isn’t my area of expertise, but as I’ve gone to more of these shows, I try to listen to what the guys who work with these tools everyday have to say. Well, they seemed pretty impressed, but they were reserving judgement until they could use it under real world conditions.
Another point the product manager mentioned was that this wasn’t the first version of the saw. They had an earlier version that they let carpenters field-test, and the universal sentiment was that it sucked. I have to give Milwaukee credit – rather than releasing that tool to get a rear handle saw on the market quicker, they waited and worked on the design until they were satisfied it could compete with the other tools in its class.
Tim
Without the actual worm drive, aren’t these saws just kind of a gimmick?
Bolt
If it works good and it’s in the form factor people like and are used too it doesn’t matter.
Bill
My first thought as well. Without the worm drive gearing don’t you lose the torque advantage inherent in this design?
Artificial flowers can look nice from a distance, and they don’t require any maintenance, but my wife still doesn’t want them.
Peter Fox
I would bet the reason that it is not using an actual worm drive is efficiency.
Worm gear boxes are great at getting high gear reductions in a small space however they are not very efficient.
On a corded saw it is a non issue, on a cordless saw it would significantly impact the amount of cutting that could be done on a battery. Packaging/form factor, power, and run time are more important than the exact type of gear box in this case.
Doug
Why would you want to introduce more mechanical loss into a system when its not needed. A worm drive gearbox is doesn’t magically create more torque. It works the same way every other type of gearbox works, by proportionally trading speed for torque. If the motor is designed to provide it’s maximum torque at the speed the blade needs to spin at then there is no need for a gearbox of any kind. Removing the gearbox makes the tool more efficient.
andy
Worm drive is not a feature, it is a compromise. A slower turning AC motor that put the same power to the blade would be heavy and make a poorly balanced saw.
hangovna
Exactly. Worm drive was created to solve the packaging problem of the motor. It’s turned 90 degrees to allow the width of the saw to remain as small as possible. With todays brushless motors, they can sit axially from the blade and still have a fairly small form factor.
Skye A Cohen
There’s more to that form factor than just the worm gear. When you’re used to it ir feels easier to use and easier on your wrists
Dominic S
I don’t care what they call it, the blade belongs on the left for right-handed users. Now they have a left-blade 7-1/4″ FUEL saw. The fact that it’s rear handle makes it even better.
Bob
I sort of agree with Tim. Not a true hypoid (worm drive gear box) saw BUT if the cutting performance, ergonomics and weight balance is the same I would be inclined to let it slide. Maybe they should call it a worm drive STYLE saw? Tesm Red and Team Yellow both have direct drive on these types of saws. One advantage is you don’t have the maintenance of the gear box though I’ve never seen a skill mag 77 wear out even when abused so maybe its a moot point.
I am guessing due to packaging constraints (got to fit that big battery someplace) they went with a direct drive transmission. I wonder if a true hypoid would cut better but be physically larger to fit the battery?
I think the true test of these saws, of any brand, is to attach one of those chainsaw attachments (prazi makes them ??) for when you do timber framing. If it will handle one of those in an oak beam without overheating I am sold.
Koko The Talking Ape
I think you are spot on. One quibble: “Not a true hypoid (worm drive gear box)” Hypoid gears are technically different than worm gears and drives.
https://www.heraldsroute.com/hypoid-vs-worm-drive-circular-saw/
Koko The Talking Ape
Oops, can’t edit.
In a worm drive, the worm (the high speed, small-diameter gear) touches the worm gear (big and slow, looks like an ordinary spur gear) at its edge. In a hypoid drive, the smaller gear (I don’t know the right term for it) touches the bigger gear on its face, not its edge.
IIRC, hypoids typicaly offer less gear reduction than worm drives.
Jon Brown
I think this saw is awesome. I understand why they didn’t base this off of a worm gearbox. The advantages derived from using a worm gear to power a sawblade come at a significant electrical cost when looking from an efficiency standpoint. when electricity is not limited by battery capacity it makes sense to have a gearbox to get the extra oomph. But, when you have a finite number of “dancing pixies” you want all of them pushing the blade, not spinning gears.
fred
Interesting discussion.
I think Makita’s XSR01PT (2 x 18V) saw may have been the first to market – it uses what they say is helical (not worm) gearing – with a rear handled design.
Dewalt calls their DCS577B – Flexvolt 60V saw “Worm Drive Style”.
Now there is this Milwaukee – I guess a sidewinder with a rear handle.
It would be interesting to compare them.
Iron-Iceberg
For me the real benefit of a saw with a rear handle is one hand control. With the handle on the top of the saw it wants to rotate around in a circle and you have to have a good grip on both handles. Try that on a rafter tail on a ladder, or even in the center of a sheet of plywood.
With the handle in the back you have leverage to easily make a straight cut with one hand. A kickback is way more controlled as the saw doesn’t want to spin out of your hand.
Also the worm drive gave a saw torque for cuts. With a cordless saw you get the torque from DC motor so you don’t really need the worm drive, just the torque to make deep cuts.
I’m all in on this and have been waiting for it like a lot of my carpenter friends.
Willy
I fully agree with having an easier time making a straight cut with the handle on the rear of the saw. I have no doubt there are guys out there who are able to make straight and accurate cuts with sidewinders, but for me I just prefer the feel and handling of a rear handle saw. I’m in for a preorder.
Andrew
Makita, Dewalt, Milwaukee all have similar saws now. Not having used any of them just watching reviews it appears Makita beats Dewalt. Just getting peoples initial opinion at a launch event this one seems pretty awesome. All well, as always any of the big 3 produce great tools cannot go wrong with either. Pick the features you like best as all 3 will be more than enough saw for the job.
Josh Walters
Depends, the Makita runs on their 18v platform, no reinvesting in HO or Flexvolt batteries which imo is pretty huge, also SOME users have reported the Makita tracks straighter and has a smoother Ramp up. Both those last 2 are hard to quantify, but I’ve had multiple people say it.
The Flexvolt just seems to have sheer unadulterated power. Like seriously it just shreds through. We can talk all day long about dust collection or weight etc 90% of the time if its usable and dosent actively suck a Carpenter is grabbing the Flexvolt. Also the dewalt has more tools than the Makita, but it will be interesting to see how Milwaukee challenges. Imo they’re too late to the market on this generation of tools. Being what 2 years behind the Dewalt many of the Carpenters who would actually use the saw already got in the Dewalt ecosystem for the Nailer and the Flexvolt blade left circular saw. Just what I’ve seen on Jobs.
Nathan
I’d like to see a 3 way test but I think dewalt proved with the right engineering in the motor – there isn’t as much need for the gearing. I suspect a large number of contractors agree too.
I admit I like the form factor – but I have no real need for a worm drive style saw – I do like the rear handle form factor.
I wonder if milwaukee’s bigger issue had to do with having the current output allowance of the new battery. How does this saw work on a 5ah or such.
Adam
On their Gen2 Fuel circular saw 2732-20, using less than an HO battery resulted in 5,000 max rpms, as opposed to 5,800. I have to imagine similar for this saw as well.
Corey Moore
I bet it overheats. You can warm up the 36 and 60v versions with enough abuse, so they’ve got to be ramping up that current draw to compete with an 18v motor.
Stuart
Not if the new saw is anything like the other 2018 and 2019 releases of Milwaukee M18 tools designed around High Output batteries.
Corey Moore
That high output is what is generating that heat though. The amperage they’re squeezing out of the batteries is considerably higher than the higher voltage options. Unless they’ve revolutionized heat syncs, they’re going to have a higher and faster build up of heat under similar loads. I’m not saying it’s going to be a POS lol just that I strongly anticipate hearing about heat issues with this saw. Interested to see how long they stay dug in on 18v while the higher voltage options begin to move into the same current potential on top of their larger motors.
andy
I own both the DeWalt and Milwaukee chainsaw. Under heavy abuse, the Milwaukee fares batter. The fact is that pulling 200 amps under peak loads is actually not that big of a deal.
Corey Moore
Pulling 200 amps is a big deal lol
Doug
The individual cells in the new m18 batteries put out the same amperage as the flexvolts. The only difference is the amperage from the battery pack to the motor. As long as Milwaukee beefs up the copper connections, which they have, there shouldn’t be any overheating.
There is no hidden potential for the flexvolt batteries to put out more wattage at present (high current like Milwaukee but at 54 volts instead of 18). They’re all using the same cells.
Corey Moore
I’m not interested in starting the millionth arm chair electrical engineering argument on toolguyd, but to think that there’s no more potential with higher voltage motors is laughable.
Stuart
The thing is, Milwaukee is engineering these tools and batteries from the ground up, and even working with chip makers on custom ICs and circuit components.
It is certainly harder to work with higher current at 18V than lower currents at higher voltages, but Milwaukee has been working on that.
NPS19 impressions seemed to be quite positive, but we’ll see how the saw really performs after production models start shipping.
Claiming it’ll overheat, even without seeing it in person yet, seems unfair.
JoeM
Well, not disagreeing with you here, but someone looking at a bigger, more powerful electric tool can state the obvious “I bet it heats up a lot” without it being unfair to say. Plus, include that video of the saw stalling, and anyone who has picked up any circular saw in the past 30 years can probably say “Yeah, overheating. I can understand that.”
It’s not like anyone is saying the saw is garbage for it. Just that… Yeah, we could see overheating at a problem, especially under load. Gotta expect that at this point in the tool market.
DeWALT made claims about re-engineering batteries for better cooling, and that was their sales line for that battery at the time. I think it might have been the 4Ah or 6Ah XR batteries they remade with better cooling. All heat issues in the current Lithium Ion era start with the batteries, and do the most damage at the point where they connect to the Motors, and it is nothing to do with the quality of the company or the tool.
We’re all squeezing a huge amount of work out of these hugely powerful tools, in environments that are getting exceedingly warm as the years go on. There’s nothing unfair about stating the obvious results of all this. Hell, I can pick up my 6-1/2″ DCS390, first generation 20 Volt saw, and see it heat up more now than when I bought it, all due to the same reasons. In the Lithium Ion era of tools, heat is the big side effect of us being able to run tools for longer periods, in warmer weather due to global warming, and with tools that can go through materials the NiCD and NiMH era tools thought were impossible, yet the Lithium Ion versions chew up like paper.
It may not be fair if we FAULT Milwaukee for this overheating, but it’s completely fair to EXPECT overheating. It’s rather natural considering the tools we’re all using.
Corey Moore
I said specifically that I’m not assuming it’s a POS, simply that I expect to hear about heat with this, super high-power tool, on a platform that’s drawing super high-power, above industry standard, and has had reports of heat recently in tools and battery packs. It’s presumably a killer saw. Then there was some unscientific assumptions about wattage, voltage, and amperage, how batteries and motors interact regarding those factors, which I declined to get snooty about, and here we are. There have been some eyebrow raising, easily ruffled feathers here today.
Corey Moore
Upon browsing back through this, early morning next day, I should have chosen my words better regarding addressing heat concerns/expectations. I see that I most certainly had a hand in ruffling of feathers, as I called it earlier.
Mo
Like the m18 chainsaw that can’t burn through a whole charge bucking firewood without overheating?
This was my first thought too, though one would really have to be pushing this circ saw for a long time to generate that kind of heat.
nick
M18 6 1/2″ blade guard (left blade) has a few issues that i hope this new saw addresses. 1. Cutting through 2x material one encounters that making any trim cut (less than 1/2″) the guard will jam until you assist its ascension. 2. Guard gets stuck at beginning of cut through 2x material forcing one to tilt the saw forward, manually lift the guard or even worse, shimming the guard open. Skilsaw and Makita both have very simple guard designs and work as expected. I dont know whats up with this silly front nose design on Milwaukee’s blade guards. Anyone else encounter this on the left blade saws?
Mo
Uggh, yeah I hate the blade guard on both the current fuel saws
EspeciallyAfter reading and watching so many reviews of people praising how smooth and awesome it was and it’s just a clunky p o s……
if you don’t have the depth of cut just perfect the stupid thing binds up and catches on everything, especially if you’re doing any miter cuts.
definitely room for improvement
andy
Most impressive thing to me is that even with the massive battery, it’s only .2 pounds heavier than a Skill Mag77 lt (not sure if that includes the cord)
I wonder how long it last. No gears or brushes. The new Skill saws only last my real framers a year or two.
JoeM
I really hope I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings when I say this saw is kinda “Meh” for me. Not because of anything important, or technical, it’s just… It’s a Milwaukee, and when DeWALT released theirs in the FlexVOLT and the baby brother 20V XR lines… I think feature for feature, difference for difference, this is EXACTLY what I expected Milwaukee’s answer to DeWALT would be. Nothing is surprising here. It’s a Milwaukee Worm Drive 7-1/4″ 18V Lithium Ion Brushless Saw. It has every single one of the expected specs from that, it ticks off every box on the list that make it Milwaukee and not DeWALT, and everything from the materials to the included features, like the dust port, are exactly what you’d expect Milwaukee to do.
So… Honestly, this isn’t a surprise, or even so much as semi-shocking, in any way. We had to know this EXACT setup was coming from Team Red by now. Will it kick ass? Does Milwaukee Kick Ass for you? If so, then Yes this will. If not, then it won’t. Are you DEDICATED to Team Red? Go ahead, this is typical Team Red, so go buy it if you need it.
I’m still not all that fond of the charger. It’s not about the tech specs, it’s the strangely not-Milwaukee look to the layout. I know that sounds weird as hell, but somehow, despite it having the right FUNCTIONALITY, the DESIGN seems to be so oddly different than all the tools it serves… I don’t know what it is… maybe it should have a rounded base or something? Maybe the readout panel sticking out seems blocky somehow? I don’t know. It bugs me that it doesn’t aesthetically match the tools somehow. But it’s a minor nit-pick for me. A bit of OCD I suppose. Like seeing a crooked picture and being driven to straighten it, no matter how inconsequential it might be.
I know there’s a video there of the saw stalling… I’m just going to ignore it. Let Team Red fix it, or have the user base figure out what’s really going on so they CAN fix it. It’s a Milwaukee. Expect Milwaukee performance from it, in all the best ways there. I’m a DeWALT user, and I respect those who are choosing Milwaukee for their go-to brand here. I just don’t want any fights breaking out over this. We’re not enemies here. It’s a saw, and any issues will get worked out. I have my doubts that Milwaukee would just drop support for this thing, instead of trying to get it up to snuff. So, one way or another… It’s the arrival of the 7-1/4″Brushless Worm Drive Saw, as expected.
Benjamen
You’ve mentioned a video of the saw stalling twice now, can you link to it? I would like to see it.
I don’t think you mean the one I included, where Joe screwed up the blade. There were people who used the saw after Joe made his videos and noted the blade was toast. I’d just like to verify that they were using a good blade in the video where the saw stalled and I’d like to see the situation.
JoeM
Sorry. Case of foot in mouth disease. Only skimmed over the video, didn’t play it. (Old hardware on my PC, doesn’t like to play video.)
I was referring to the video posted by Canadiancarpenter. It caught my eye, since Canadian content here at Toolguyd is rare.
Though, I stand by my opinion that this saw is exactly what we’d expect from Milwaukee. We can remove all that crap my brain spewed about them handling or fixing a problem. Obviously there isn’t one, and I made an oops.
Sorry Ben.
Joe
I am heavily invested in the m18 platform and am very Interested in this saw. I don’t like my current gen1 7 1/4 but with the 9ah battery it can do a good amount of work. I have used most brands offerings and been less than impressed. Flexvolt was very interesting and I was close to buying in. Most users seem happy with the flexvolt. I am glad Milwaukee looks to have some competitive products coming. I bought hitachi nailers because I felt the Milwaukee offerings were subpar and expensive. Now I wish I waited.
The What?
Being that this cordless saw is supposedly made for heavy duty cutting applications I think it’s only fair that Milwaukee provides some proof that this saw can handle cross cutting some #2 treated 6×6, 8×8 or 10×10 beams and notching them out along with the cordless recip saw and then cut the lvl ledgers, rims/bands, and joists or pt 2×12 & 2×10 ledgers, bands, and joists. All of which are fine examples of heavy duty cutting applications. I wonder how many batteries it would take using this saw to cut the lumber I mentioned continuously for 8 hours while only stopping for measuring and layout marking. Everything I mentioned is what I’ve been working on for the last few months which is your typical everyday residential framing and building that involves quite a bit of heavy duty cutting applications. So I’d like to ask Milwaukee to provide some evidence that this saw can own up to the claims that it can hang with a corded saw and how many batteries it takes to do so along with the price comparison of this saw and batteries vs the corded saw. I’d also like to see how much faster it is. My corded saw hasn’t died or malfunctioned or shown signs of doing so in the 8 years of hell I’ve put it through. I would like to see what this wannabe worm drive Milwaukee saw can really do and whether or not the same can be said about it along with all other cordless saws that were supposedly designed for the same purpose.
Oleg k
5800 rpm for a worm drive? If Milwaukee is realistic about these figures this is going to be one hell of a saw!
A question comes to mind though: why did Dewalt ever bother with their 54v system to begin with? Im sure they could have achieved the same success with their 18v platform that Milwaukee achieved with theirs and if the benefits are speed and power then where are they? So far, there are only downsides, such as short runtime, incompatibility with the old chargers, batteries and so on. I think that Dewalt’s Flexvolt lineup will (should be) eventually be phased out, unless they find a way to utilize all the available voltage and current and develop 6, 8 and 12ah flexvolt batteries that don’t weight a ton.
Doug
There are many advantages to higher voltage motors as others have stated. My point was simply that the flexvolt battery can’t supply high amperage and high voltage; it’s one or the other.
The main answer to your question, however, is this:
According Milwaukee, it holds three patents (7,554,290; 7,944,173; 7,999,510) that give it the exclusive right to make “multi-cell Li-Ion packs that can produce an average discharge current greater than or equal to approximately 20 amps”.
Sources:
https://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power-tools/cordless-tools/milwaukee-claims-exclusive-right-to-make-lithium-ion-tools_o
https://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power-tools/readers-comment-heres-what-you-missed-in-covering-milwaukees-lithium-ion-lawsuits_o
Corey Moore
That’s a pretty ridiculous, and fringe opinion lol and your “downsides” are ill-informed at best. Flexvolt is doing very well as a platform.
The What?
I overlooked a very important statement that speaks volumes about how blatant and completely full of sh_t Milwaukee really is. “It generates 15 amps of corded power”. That statement alone explains it all to why they are the used snake oil salesman of the industry. It’s almost like they’re shameless about it. 570 2×4 cross cuts in bone dry white pine is not what I would consider heavy duty cutting applications. How many cuts would it do if I had to rip 16′ pressure treated 2×4’s in half to make spindles for porch or deck railings and stairs that are cut to length and spaced to code? Do you think this $450 saw would still generate the corded power that they’re claiming? I certainly don’t think it would.