We recently posted about the new Milwaukee CP 3.0 and XC 8.0 cordless power tool battery packs. Milwaukee has also announced today a brand new charger that is specially designed for their High Output and high capacity M18 battery packs.
The new Milwaukee Super Charger, 48-59-1811, can recharge all of their M12 and M18 Li-ion battery packs. However, as mentioned, there is a special advantage when recharging a High Output battery. Take a look at the following charging times chart to see what I mean.
Advertisement
Milwaukee’s M18 HD 12.0Ah battery pack, their highest capacity battery, recharges in 241 minutes on their standard charger, or 130 minutes on their RapidCharger. The new Super Charger can fully recharge it in just 60 minutes.
That’s right, 60 minutes and your HD12.0 battery is fully charged and ready to go.
However, the super fast charging times are only for the M18 High Output batteries. For Milwaukee’s other M18 batteries, charging times match the charging times you’d get with the Rapid Charger.
Here’s a sample list of Milwaukee M18 battery charging times when the Super Charger is used:
- M12 CP2.0: 30 minutes
- M12 XC3.0: 46 minutes
- M18 CP 2.0: 25 minutes
- M18 XC 5.0: 60 minutes
- M18 HD 9.0: 103 minutes
- M18 CP 3.0 High Output: 35 minutes
- M18 XC 6.0 High Output: 35 minutes
- M18 XC 8.0 High Output: 45 minutes
- M18 HD 12.0 High Output: 60 minutes
It takes 45 minutes to charge an XC 8.0 High Output battery, but 60 minutes for a popular XC 5.0? Remember, the High Output battery packs are built with larger form factor Li-ion cells. As such, they run cooler, and it seems they can endure a faster charging rate.
Advertisement
Long story short, there’s now a new faster charging option for users who have a growing collection of M18 High Output battery packs.
Or, another way of seeing things – if you want faster charging times, that’s a big incentive to upgrade some of your aging packs to High Output batteries instead of the standard variety.
Price: $159
ETA: July 2019
First Thoughts
Because some people will always scoff at the price and say something like “Milwaukee wants to charge HOW MUCH for a cordless power tool battery charger?!”, remember – this is an optional upgrade; you don’t have to buy one.
The way I see it, it’s good to have a faster charging option and not feel compelled to buy one, than to really want something that doesn’t exist.
Potentially, the charging times are so quick that they might save some users from having to buy another battery or two. When you’re talking about $199-$249 a pop for an HD 12.0 battery, the new Super Charger might pay for itself.
Since there’s no charging advantage for the standard M12 or M18 batteries, I think the Super Charger will have a limited audience – for now.
I would anticipate that, as High Output batteries start appearing in more and more pro’s tool bags, and in greater numbers, we might see some special bundles or promos, similar to how the Rapid Charger is featured in certain kits or “special buys.”
That all said, who’s in for one?
PETE
Who is this aimed at? A pro
Do pros only have one battery? No
Why didn’t they skip this and make a SUPER Banked charger(4-6 batteries)?
Stuart
Testing the waters?
Matt
There is seemingly no need to test the water… I have 15 HC packs and growing that constantly need juice. Do I want to spend $160 on a charger now that charges 1 pack and then $300 when the multi bay hits the market because the single bay sold like hot cakes? No, I don’t. And frankly itd piss me off. Release these options together. That’s what I would do
Rob
What pisses me off is that I believe the 12.0 has not even been out a year yet. All the money spent on tools with the 12.0 batteries before they started offering the 2nd 12.0 battery for free. Why did this come out now and not be included with the 12.0 that came out last year? They had to be developing it already. I would have paid more for the kit with the super charger. I agree about a multi battery charger as well. I can see some people wanting maybe one or two super chargers but plenty of pros wanting a multi battery super charger that also charges them all at the same time.
Stuart
The kits that are equipped with Rapid Chargers won’t be automatically updated with Super Chargers. Given the difference in retail price, I think it’s fair to assume that the Super Charger will be an optional upgrade or separate purchase. It’s possible it will be bundled in later kits, but given the information presently available, I wouldn’t bet on it.
John Patel
I agree here, I’d pay the price premium for a multi charger
Brian M
Surely it is coming.
What doesn’t really make sense is why this is M12/M18. There isn’t a M12 that really needs more than the Rapid Charger. It should have been two M18s on this. Then the 4-8 battery charger next year or something.
Brian A
The M12 6.0 only takes maybe 45 min to charge on the rapid, but someday soon there could be larger M12s.
Stuart
It’s a convenience so that M12 and M18 users don’t have to fuss with two separate chargers.
Plus, I presume that it only has one charging circuit, just like the rapid and standard chargers.
They make a 4-port M12 charger and a 6-port M18 charger, and a 3+3 simultaneous Rapid charger. They could very well make a multi-port M18 Super Charger, but if I were Milwaukee I’d wait to see how well this version sells before coming out with an even pricier multi-port version.
Rob
The chart shows that the M12 does not charge any faster on the super charger than it does on the rapid charger. Matter of fact, most of the batteries don’t charge any faster on this new super charger than the rapid charger.
Stuart
Right. So if you use High Output batteries and also non-High Output M18, or M12, you can still use just one charger instead of having to work with two.
PHILIP JOHN
They do it to add to kits in the future.
The bank charger I am sure it’s on the way… but it has much more research and development…. it has a lot to live up too… when you consider what dewalt has.
They have done pretty good with HO… especially when you can tell it was not planned until dewalt came out with flexvolt… Milwaukee first gen mag drill is proof… it would only fit a 9 amph battery.
PHILIP JOHN
9 amp hr hd battery is now almost pointless to purchase.
andy
I believe the 103 minutes for the 9.0 could have been improved on. They just want to push the new batteries.
Stuart
It’s the size of the cells, not the capacity of the pack.
andy
The other packs with 18650 cells charge faster. Granted, they don’t have any other packs with 3.0 18650 cells, and there are 3 of them stacked. Still, I know the properties of those cells. I’m sure they could charge faster.
No matter what cell, fast charging does wear it out faster. As does fully charging. But providing options to charge slowly and/or hold at 80% would just confuse people, add cost, and sell fewer new batteries.
Chris P.
That’s what she said
PHILIP JOHN
Put 2 bats with 18650 cells. … side by side on the rapid charger… and you will feel the hottest charger going. I don’t think they can improve on a 9 charge time.
Adam
I suggested on GJ that at NPS they would come out with a new rapid M12/M18/USB batteries, that also has standard & type C USB ports.
It seems a super charger would be more useful having two 18v ports if the 12v doesn’t take advantage of it.
My only use for the 12ah is when I’m using the chainsaw, but I also have a couple 6ah’s I’d rather use. Nothing two rapid chargers won’t handle for me.
andy
Ultimately, charging speed has never been an issue. 3 of us use the same m18 tools on site. The charger doesn’t come out every day with typical use. For heavier framing or demo a battery will be charging at all times, and on a rare day we run two rapid chargers to keep up.
Maurice Childs
Love Milwaukee’s tools
Chuck c
I personally will stick to slow chargers as additional speed equals additional heat and shorter battery life . I have enough batteries to outlast most jobs i do including my demo hammer. I’ve given my rapid chargers to my brother
Albert
I’m old school and have always thought that rapid charging reduced the life of the batteries. I don’t have any proof though.
Jared
I’m not into the Milwaukee battery ecosystem, but I can recognize this is a cool and useful addition.
60 mins to charge a 12.0 HD Pack is the same Dewalt’s rapid charger for a 6ah Flexvolt pack. Like you said Stuart, a fast charger can reduce the number of packs required (or even their size for that matter). I’d be interested if it came in yellow.
Joe framer
Badass !!!!!!
daniel
Great for the new HO batteries, but I’m disappointed it doesn’t decrease the charge time for all the older batteries at least a little bit. I only have a couple 12’s that I basically rotate thru my table saw. Its rare that one is not ready by the time the other dies. I’ll be sticking with the current rapid charger. I’m guessing these will show up in kits that have an HO battery eventually, so maybe I’ll get one then.
I am curious about battery life, because I’ve heard that rapid charging lithium batteries decreases their life span.
Jim
I’d like to see Milwaukee offer more options on their chargers.
1) charge speed options standard/medium/fast: rate of charge can lower the number of cycles a battery can provide due to heating when charging faster. If I can let a battery charge overnight, why not just charge slower?
2) charge level options: storage/full: leaving batteries sit for prolonged periods of time at a high state of charge is another way to damage them (along with discharging to lower states of charge). Ideally, I’d like to keep them at about 80% of full charge and just top them off right before I need them.
For a quick overview, see:
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Mike S
The information on this site is not scientific, and has been disputed and/or debunked numerous times…
aj
The manufacturer spec sheets agree on most of the info though. So, there’s that.
Lance
Charging faster generates more heat. Heat kills batteries. Milwaukee has not implemented fans into their chargers to cool batteries like Makita has done since 2005, so their charge times are still slower and likely with higher temperatures.
Ben
I’ve used full Makita loadout and full milwaukee loadout for about the same amount of time and have to say I wasted many Makita batteries and haven’t even had a single milwaukee battery go duff yet. In short the milwaukee battery system is superior.
MichaelHammer
Ditto Ben’s response. It’s insane how many batteries I bought before switching from Makita to Milwaukee.
Corey H.
The New SUPER CHARGERS have fans both for the M12 and the M18 charge cycles… I just bought one as it was a great deal with the 8.0 HO battery…
Jim
@Mike S Really? What are your sources that disagree with that information? Battery University is by Cadex Electronics who specialize in batteries. “Cadex technology and products, including custom battery packs, smart chargers and advanced battery analyzers, optimize battery use in all phases of battery life cycle management, increase up-time and availability of critical equipment, and decrease operating costs.”
https://www.cadex.com/en/about-cadex
To show this information agrees with the actual battery manufacturers, from Panasonic:
“4. StoringtheBatteries
The batteries should be stored at room temperature, charged to about 30 to 50% of capacity. We recommend that batteries be charged about once per year to prevent overdischarge.”
https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf/ACA4000/ACA4000PE1.pdf
@Ben My experience is similar to yours. I’ve had a very positive experience with Milwaukee and their batteries since the early 9.6V ones. Luckily, I skipped the v28.
I wish Milwaukee or any other tool manufacturer would have a honest and straight forward battery technology page that goes into some detail to educate consumers about the technical side of batteries without made up non-standard terms. There is too much garbage marketing out there with red, yellow and blue lines on unitless graphs trying to show how one company is better than their competitors. Trades people may not be scientists, but they’re not dumb.
Mike S
@Jim – How about the way the manufacturers treat the batteries themselves for one? I’ve acquired at least 10 new tool batteries in the last few months – the site says that for best long term storage – batteries should be maintained at 50% or more; when they package up the batteries – they have no idea how long the batteries will be in that package, so they have to treat them in a manner that would be best for long term storage. Every single one of the batteries showed up at my door dead as a doornail – unusable until it had been fully charged by me.
Also – where’s their scientifically published studies and results which have been peer reviewed and replicated numerous times?
I’m not saying that most of these firms aren’t spouting off the same information, they often are. However, that doesn’t make it scientific and neither does it make it accurate.
Stuart
I’ve had that with some brands’ batteries too.
I think that, long-term, some brands’ battery fuel gauges might do that (I just opened a 2-pack of dead batteries), or attachments to tools can create a vampiric drain that does it.
Some say 40%, others aim for 30%.
Mike
People rapid are good if you need your batteries as soon as they can be charged up again, but if you don’t use the slowest charger, better for the battery, fast chargers destroy your batteries faster
Wayne R.
Well, Stuart, apparently there’s a case here for some explanatory entry about the trade-off between recharging speed & battery longevity. I was comfortable with the topic but the menagerie of today’s chemistries has left me confused too.
Then again, just “an authority” confirming that there really is a trade-off might do the job.
Stuart
It’s a tough discussion.
Will a faster charger shorten the life of a Li-ion battery? Possibly. In a noticeable manner? That’s the hard part that I can’t get answers to.
Fast chargers diminish the life of cellphone batteries. This is something I am sure a lot of readers have experienced. But so do charge/recharge cycles naturally. Would you rather get an extra month of optimal charge capacity, or months if not years of faster charging?
With active cooling, and newer battery cell technologies, modern cordless power tool packs can handle a lot.
What is more impactful to battery wear, high output use and elevated temperatures, or fast charging?
This is something that I actually CAN test for – I have the equipment (at least to do one battery at a time) and 80% of the know-how. But it would take considerable time, and even then it would be for only one brand and one pair of batteries. I would need to look at several batteries and several brands before generalizations or conclusions can be made. How many cycles are needed before a difference appears? 50? 100? 200? 500? Unfortunately, I lack the resources to do something like this, and it’s not something we’re likely to find a sponsor for either.
Lance
Heat kills battery cells. No need to test for that unless you’re trying to quantify the effect. For pros who wear out batteries already, they will do so faster with faster charging. Some might be ok with the trade off, but many will be shortening the life of their batteries without knowing it.
MichaelHammer
The point is to quantify it so we know what the trade off is. If it shortens the life of the battery from 48 months to 47 months, I’m going to rapid charge every day. You see, without quantifying the damage, it’s pointless to say it shortens the life of the battery.
Lance
Smoking causes cancer. Is it useless to say that simply because I can’t give you an accurate timeframe?
Stuart
Frankly, you’re both right.
However, in the absence of quantitative data, conclusions based on generalizations must be conservative.
It’s hot outside, and you’re going for a drive. Running the air conditioner in your car will lower the gas mileage. Opening the windows will have less effect on your gas mileage, up to a certain speed. So, to maximize your gas mileage, at what speed should you turn on the air conditioner vs. opening the windows? But if your priority is comfort, then just turn on the air conditioner. For some people, knowing the quantitative data might influence their actions. For others, it won’t.
There’s no wrong approach.
Milwaukee says “This charger does not have a negative impact on battery life.”
We have no choice but to trust them on this. We could collect quantitative data to confirm or challenge it, but it wouldn’t be feasible.
Smoking has been shown to cause lung cancer. There are studies regarding probabilities and all that.
In this instance, we’re talking about a new charger, and there is the potential for some users to explore in practice as to whether or not the fast charging impacts battery life. But, it’ll be months if not years before anything becomes apparent, and even then, there will be questions about the controls.
In other words, unless there is a glaring problem, we should not expect to see that the charger accelerates the wear of compatible battery packs in any significant manner.
Doug
I love Milwaukee tools but I too am concerned about such a high current charger which apparently lacks a cooling fan. I guess they didn’t want to pay royalties to Makita?
According to this data sheet for the Samsung 40T cell (which I believe is used in most of these new high output batteries), the “rated charge” is 6 amps. This super charger is double that rate.
http://www.vapcelltech.com/uploads/file1/20180614/5b223d66be21d.pdf
Stuart
I just heard back that “This charger does not have a negative impact on battery life.” The High Output batteries can be recharged with no concern of accelerated degradation.
Doug
Thank you for following up on that.
Lance
Of course they will tell you that! It’s part of their marketing! Look at the science and look at the cell data sheets from suppliers. They will be in stark contrast to Milwaukee’s claims.
The question shouldn’t be if, the question should be how much.
Jim
@Lance I agree with you. “‘no negative impact” is very unlikely to be strictly true. Ok, I’ll say it, it’s complete bs. What they could be taking into account is that the impact from using these batteries in high demand tools, and the heat generated inside the cells may have a much higher impact on battery life as compared to the degradation caused by fast charging. So under whatever they consider “typical useage” in high demand tools, fast charging will not have a statistically significant impact on battery life. And, if they’re used in low demand tools, the battery pack will last long enough that it will accumulate degradation from other sources that the impact of the fast charging is not statistically significant. Whatever the case, I wish they would publish white papers to back up their claims.
Corey H
The new super chargers have fans in them and they are strong..
Brian A
Will it charge both a M12 & M18 at the same time? Yeah price is too insane no matter how you look at it. I have the Rapid Station , easier to throw 3 M12s and 3 M18s in that thing versus having to manage them on the Super.
Stuart
That’s unlikely. If it could, press materials would have said so. The other M12/M18 chargers, except for the multi-port Rapid Charger, only have one charging circuit and operate on a “first in, first to charge” one at a time basis.
Brian A
The product page on Milwaukee’s site says its sequential…. booo
Steven
Consensus…..guys who have tools, have a bazillion batteries. Acquisition of batteries comes fast and becomes overwhelming to manage….at least a “one battery at a time” charger. I will say this again and again. Milwaukee’s multi sequential charger is the most practical bang for your buck battery wrangler and charger. If 6 batteries take too long for your work day, get another 6 and multi charger.
Guys have better things to do than babysit batteries one at a time.
Kudos for milwaukee remaking a charger…but, charge times have never been an issue with me.
Ben
Not sure I have a bazillion yet, but I must be close ??
Nathan
I have to assume they are implementing some form of battery recognition here and multiple rails of delivery to set of batteries. IE like how QC3 and QC4 work on smart phones etc. Aside from which batteries have which cells you have to also not cook the older batteries.
So it is RFID, or does the end of that connector have some extra pins. I don’t have any milwaukee tools and batteries so I don’t know what they look like on end.
It’s an interesting idea but to some other comments – where is the multi pack charger. seems a touch short sighted.
but I could see someone with a ton of batteries already has 2-3 chargers setup – and they use them for most top off duty – this is in the truck/van for that time you’re on the job and one of your 3 die and you need to run another tool too. IE it’s the emergency charger.
Failing all that I agree that the bulk of consumers are good with battery technology so having a charger that only gets to ____ % and hold over. with buttons for fast or slow – and a button for charge to 100 etc. would be nice but to be fair tool batteries are rather cheap these days.
Rob
$159 is not unreasonable for a 240W (output) power conversion circuit that charges li-ion safely. There’s substantial electronics in this charger. And hopefully it has a better cooling fan than the low quality junk that crippled the previous Rapid Charger (the dying fan is the source of the complaints about the Rapid Charger producing “a noise” when operating). One hour to full for the 12Ah battery is great…now introduce the M18 lawn mower Milwaukee.
mil wau kee
no usb?
Jim Felt
They’ve got a great USB charger “top” for any M12 battery.
(As long ago does Bosch in both 12v and 18v battery configurations).
day walt
dewalt makes a dual simultaneous 20v charger with dual usb ports…4 bay simultaneous fast charger…4 bay simultaneous fast charger and power station!!!
M Leslie
Kind of politically over the top on my part and irrelevant but… If I had known that Milwaukee Tools was a China owned company I might have held off and waited for a good deal on Bosch instead.
fred
TTI is not exactly a “China Owned Company”
It is a publicly traded company – founded by Horst Pudwill in Hong Kong – when Hong Kong was still a British Crown Colony. How much of its equity is now held by Chinese nationals is something one can contemplate – but that might also be thought about for USA-based companies as well. It is true however, that TTI’s tools are manufactured in China – along with some tools bearing the Bosch brand name.
Jim Felt
fred. The majority of my 12v and 18v Bosch tools themselves seem to be marked “Made in Malaysia” as are their batteries. While some of the more unique tool actually say “Made in Germany”.
Any oddly enough Bosch NA is only a few hundred miles away from Milwaukee’s US home. “Town”.
TonyT
12V jigsaw is made in China’s, IIRC my laser level is too
fred
Of My five most recently purchased Bosch tools one was made in Germany. Here’s the breakdown:
06032A2101 GLUE PEN MOLDOVA
PS70BN CORDLESS POWER SHEARS GERMANY
GHO12V-08N CORDLESS POWER PLANE HUNGARY
GKF12V-25N CORDLESS TRIM ROUTER HUNGARY
GSR12V-140FCB22 CORDLESS DRILL MALAYSIA
PETE
Picked me up a m18 FUEL hedge trimmer today for $45 on clearance at homedepot. LOVE IT.
Doug
While I understand the differences and motives, I think Milwaukee is getting carried away with their charger and battery options. As a pro, I would rather have fewer options that are the best they can be. I get frustrated with all the options and differences. It just makes purchasing and tracking tools that much more complicated.
Brian A
It wouldnt be so bad if they would discontinue some smaller batteries. The currently have 17 different batteries and 7 chargers, between M18 & M12
OldDominionDIYer
There are apparently a lot of “experts” making comments about a new Super charger that don’t have any clue what the heat threshold is for these new HO batteries. I will choose to trust in the folks that designed and built then tested both these specific batteries and the chargers. Every other opinion about how these new chargers will reduce battery life are pure unfounded speculation and have zero basis in fact. The great thing about these tools and accessories is you don’t have to buy into the system, you can always buy elsewhere. How does anyone know how Milwaukee designed their batteries and chargers, maybe a full charge as indicated by the charge indicator only charges their batteries to some level less than 100% thereby already providing the ideal charge cycle, I don’t know but based on the fantastic battery performance I have gotten out of all of my Milwaukee batteries I will take their word for it, for now.
I hope they design and build a multi-battery super charger as well but I recognize you can’t have everything immediately, I’ll be patient.
Jim Felt
Stuart.
As daniel, way above, asked: “I am curious about battery life, because I’ve heard that rapid charging lithium batteries decreases their life span.”
This too has been my long held belief regards Li-ion. Not regards specific brands but in general.
OldDominionDIYer is certainly logically correct but “Marketing” takes significant consideration over science in many companies. Just sayin’…
Have you seen any particular proof of the truth of quick charging v. slower on actual battery cycle life?
Thanks!
Stuart
I haven’t seen anecdotal evidence either way.
Concerns over fast-charging and cordless power tool battery longevity seems to be largely theoretical. Nobody has written in to complain about switching to fast chargers and having to replace batteries sooner.
I’ve seen Milwaukee’s battery testing department. Let’s just say that if Milwaukee says “don’t worry, it won’t hurt the High Output batteries,” I trust them. I’m fairly confident that they have the test data to back this claim.
aj
Consider that Tesla uses essentially the same batteries and they caution against using their similarly named superchargers too often.
Stuart
What’s the charging rate on Tesla batteries?
DRT
I don’t know what the per-cell rate is, but Tesla batteries are liquid cooled. That is way more effective than either air cooled with fan, or worse yet, air cooled with no fan.
They also 100% sort every battery that comes into the factory – only the best cells go into the cars. Not to mention only purchasing cells from the premier manufacturer.
No cordless tool manufacturer could possibly afford to do this, at the prices which we are willing to pay.
aj
The charging rate is similar. Around 1C. Faster in some cases. True, liquid cooled, but there are 7000 cells packed together. No other option. They may very well get hotter than M18 packs while charging.
DRT
Yeah, I see where you’re getting the 1C or higher number. Not sure about the max temp, though. With glycol cooling, the temperature is going to be limited to the boiling point of glycol, presumably about 230F if it’s a water/glycol mix. Air cooling offers much, much less effective heat transfer, and has no hard limit on upper temperature. Of course, the charging controller in either case should be using temperature feedback to avoid a fire. I think the difference is that Tesla expects their battery packs to be used every day and last the life of the car, whereas if a cordless tool battery lasts a couple of years of hard use, it can get replaced at a modest price. There’s a crazy thought – if you think it’s expensive to buy a new M18 battery pack every few years, imagine buying a battery pack for your car every few years. Crikey, that would make it a disposable car.
Robert
So when I got two 12.0 batteries with my chainsaw I noticed the temps on the batteries getting up to 150+ degrees Fahrenheit at the contacts when charging and about 120+ degrees through the bottom of the casing itself.
That concerned me so I called Milwaukee and was told: We invented lithium ion batteries for power tools so we know what we’re doing and all that other stuff is nonsense.
That is a paraphrase but not far off from what the tech said.
I was a little dumbfounded. If we only went off of the first manufacturer’s patents and technology we wouldn’t have 90% of the technology that exists today.
Someone ALWAYS improves on the original design and while fans might not reduce the temp enough to extend battery life more than a few months, we KNOW that batteries don’t like being outside of a *normal* temperature range.
Rory
No cooling fan – Milwaukee is playing with fire (literally)
At least the warranty guys will be in a job replacing all the cooked Milwaukee batteries….
The What?
There’s nothing super about a single port charger that doesn’t have a fan to cool off a battery that has been running hot. I can only assume that they’re too stupid to know that heat is what renders a battery useless. Otherwise they would have thought to build in a fan to cool a hot battery as its charging. And especially with the answer that they gave Robert in response to his concern about his $200 battery exceeding the normal temperature threshold. They really train their staff exceptionally well, don’t they. I guess they expect you to wait for it to cool off before you charge it. That could be a problem if it’s hot outside and you can’t get the temperature of the cells down so they can accept a charge.
Stuart
You sure have gall to say something like “I can only assume that they’re too stupid to…”
No brand is perfect, and there are sometimes problems with new product releases, in the power tool industry and elsewhere. But Milwaukee is not new to cordless tools or battery packs, and they have put a lot of time and effort to innovate, expand, and serve the needs of demanding cordless power tool users.
What do you think they do at their growing USA-based headquarters? I’ve seen different parts of their facilities over the years, and it is an R&D center. They’re not just throwing parts together, making stuff up about it, and hoping that it works out okay.
I’ve been in their battery testing lab, or at least as their former lab – I believe they have since moved it to a different wing or building. In a later year, in discussion (as opposed to public demonstration), they dropped hints about the new battery tech before the new packs were officially launched. https://toolguyd.com/milwaukees-next-generation-battery-tech-advanced-discussion/
1) They have the equipment to test whether their Super Charger could potentially damage their High Output batteries.
2) They have the intelligence to test whether their Super Charger could potentially damage their High Output batteries.
Do you really think that Milwaukee’s cordless power tool battery product managers and engineers can balance current output, thermal management, and longevity in their next-gen tools and battery packs, but are “too stupid to know that heat is what renders a battery useless?”
Having spoken to these people face to face, I’m offended for them. What’s your reasoning or motivation for such language and rudeness?
I don’t know what the tech support person told Robert. Also, I’d say maybe his tool was fast on the way to thermal shutoff, I don’t know. But I can say that many modern chargers won’t recharge a hot battery, even Ryobi. I had a half-capacity battery sitting on a vac outside for a few minutes in summer, and had to bring it in for a few minutes before it would start charging.
So yes, most brands DO expect for a battery to cool down before you charge it.
Unless users reports start coming in with complaints of shortened battery life, giving us reason to doubt Milwaukee’s claims, I have full confidence in their validity. Questioning is one thing. Question everything. But we questioned, and sources I trust said that no, the Super Charger won’t degrade the High Output batteries. Years of conversations and backed claims has led me to trust them, and as of this time I don’t see a reason to doubt them.
If you want to test their claims for yourself, I’d approximate it’ll take maybe $10000 in equipment and 4 months of time, or up to double the money and half the time for full automation, or 2-4 years of field use (at least).
Their M18 track record has been quite good so far. Plus, the Rapid Charger has been out for a while, and I have yet to hear any complaints about it, isolated or patterned. The High Output batteries can deliver greater current output, so it stands to reason that they can be charged faster too.
Questions, hesitations, or even doubt are fine, but there’s no need to be rude about it.
Joe framer
Stu.. “the what” is saying that in the construction world, we can’t wait around for a battery to sit on a charger until it cools down on it’s own.
… It would cool down much faster with a fan , no ?… Then it could start recharging .
… And ya , if milwaukee doesn’t understand that or doesn’t care if trades people have to wait , then that is ridiculous.
… Of course I don’t know… if the battery is placed on the charger “hot and drained” if it charges right then or only when it’s temp is lowered, then starts to charge.
Sometimes not being in the trades and only being “book smart” as opposed to “street smart” hampers your ability to understand real problems in the real world. Also you have a loyalty to your Sponsors and we dont.
…you realize milwaukee created a new ope blower about 8 months after the original ope blower came out? That’s a classic example of them saying how great the original is but quickly changed tunes .
… Milwaukees is famous for Stretching the truth and not comparing the same tools or ” not playing equal” in their demos , especially at nps17, 18…. Dewalt doesn’t spray paint the competition or drop blocks different or use different tool boxes to compare…. Dewalt puts the competition right there in plain site.
…. Also saying Milwaukee is expanding in the USA is again stretching it. Those are a few R and D jobs not thousands of avg Joe making tools and a good wage.
… Instead of Bashing the comments , try siding with the readers and question the Profit driven companies.
Stuart
To say “I can only assume that they’re too stupid to know that heat is what renders a battery useless” is a baseless complaint, regardless of the brand. It’s negativity for the sake of being negative.
Most chargers will NOT charge a hot battery. Active cooling in chargers is not to cool down hot batteries, but to ensure they remain cool during high-current charging.
If this charger can safely and properly fast-recharge HO batteries without requiring more parts and potential points of failure, then what’s the problem? Do either of you think that any pro cordless power tool brand would simply “guess” that it would work without testing it in various conditions? If it cannot, due to design failure, that’s a different story. Has Milwaukee’s M18 product history given indication that this could be a problem? No.
My duty is to readers, and ensuring they are presented with fair and accurate information, and that loyalty means having to respond to baseless negativity – or unjustified positivity. It’s infuriating that you continue to suggest otherwise.
What does spray-painting competing brands’ tools at media events have to do with anything? What’s your agenda? Please stay on topic.
Corey H
I agree with you Stuart! Given the fact that Milwaukee has been in the tool game long before any of use were born, I’d bet they put it through hell of trial and error before pushing out a half billion dollar flop. Also your take on them putting out less heat and better performance translates to them able to handle faster charging, without limiting cycles makes perfect sense to me… (Give more take more) ?
Altan
DeWALT should make a similar charger for 8V and 12V-60V batteries, one port for 8V batteries and two-three ports for 12V-60V batteries.
Stuart
If it’s something that only 1 in 100 Dewalt users make use of (or perhaps even fewer??), it’s not going to be worth the investment for all those other users to pay for.
The 8V lineup is in extremely low demand.
Altan
I completely agree with you, they have some tools in 8V platform, Their torch has a good design, gives you the feeling of old style hand held torches, their screwdrivers are good, they have some other tools similar to the screwdriver but not available in the UK, like conduit reamer, they are all useful tools and they can add a 8V Rotary tool to that platform also, something like Dremel Rotary tool. Milwaukee and Bosch have made that tool already. They can make some other tools also in that platform, like:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/karcher-wv5-premium-cordless-window-vacuum/2604f
It would be a very useful tool for decorators in damp climates like England.
Or a smaller version of this tool can be made in 8V platform
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-CP100DZ-10-8V-Multi-Cutter/dp/B075V7NRBB
It can be used for cutting Card board, Vinyl floor, Carpet and Corex sheet or even Rubber.
These are the tools I would like to see in 8V platform and if others have some ideas about other tools in this platform can share here, it is interesting to see what else can be made in 8V platform which actually can be useful not just a toy.
If the amount of tools in this platform goes higher, then it would be worth it to make a charger which can accept all DeWALT batteries from 8V to 60V.
plumberbob
Is their any disadvantage besides longer charge times to using the standard charger for batteries like the CP 3.0? If you charging at the end of the day or overnight charge time really isn’t an issue.
I did notice that the standard charger gets hot when charging the CP 3.0 and refused to charge the second CP 3.0 until it cooled down. When the second CP 3.0 went on it was blinking red and green. This may only be an issue when charging from almost empty since this was the first charge since they were purchased.
Stuart
I don’t think so? If you notice that you have to do that every time – charge, wait for cooldown, charge next battery, it might be worth a call or email to Milwaukee to see if that’s typical behavior. I typically use a Rapid Charger these days, unless I have a battery that’s over-depleted in which case the standard charger is needed to bring it back.