Milwaukee MX Fuel is unlike any other cordless platform today, featuring tools and light construction equipment that Milwaukee says are the first battery-powered solutions of their kind.
Get the idea out of your head that these are cordless power tools, because they’re not.
You and I might still think cordless power tools out of habit, but in reality this is a cordless machinery and equipment system. Milwaukee uses the term “light equipment,” which we will have to grow accustomed to. Cordless light construction equipment.
From a quick Google search, we see this as brand new terminology. Battery-powered light equipment is a class of tools and machinery that did not yet exist before MX Fuel.
Let’s put it this way. If you consider Milwaukee’s M12 cordless platform to be analogous to 2-door coupes and compact sedans, the M18 cordless system might be analogous to SUVs. MX Fuel would then be a Super Duty truck. You’re not going to call that truck a car, are you?
Get used to these words – cordless light equipment – as MX Fuel isn’t anything like the cordless power tools you’re used to seeing from Milwaukee.
Table of Contents
Milwaukee MX Fuel Batteries and Charger
Portable Power Supply
Rocket Tower Light
Sewer Drum Machine
Milwaukee MX Fuel Intro
Milwaukee will be launching their new MX Fuel cordless light equipment system with 6 products. Each specific product is said to represent applications that have historically been challenging experiences for users due to stagnant equipment innovation.
Here are the six tools that will be included in the first wave of Milwaukee MX Fuel cordless lineup:
- MX Fuel Breaker
- Lightest weight, can break up to 2 tons per charge
- MX Fuel Carry-On 3600W/1800W Power Supply
- Compact, portable, efficient power
- MX Fuel Rocket Tower Light/Charger
- 27,000 lumens, “withstands the storm”, new way to light the site
- MX Fuel 14″ Cut-off Saw
- Full 14″ cut capacity, faster cuts from start to finish
- MX Fuel Handheld Core Drill
- Power to core 6″ holes in reinforced concrete
- MX Fuel Sewer Drum Machine with PowerTredz
- Power to clear roots at 200′, one-person transportation
Milwaukee Tool says that the new MX Fuel equipment system will be the platform that provides the technology and capability for Milwaukee to take a giant leap into the equipment space.
WHY? What’s the purpose of MX Fuel? Why now? How will this benefit users?
Milwaukee says that the light equipment industry has been stagnant when it comes to innovation. There has been an increasing emphasis on users’ exposure to emissions, vibration, and noise, with efforts taken to reduce the effects of these and other factors on users’ health.
Why might users be interested in this new battery-powered light equipment?
Milwaukee MX Fuel eliminates emissions.
Milwaukee MX Fuel reduces overall noise.
Milwaukee MX Fuel reduces vibration.
Milwaukee MX Fuel eliminates the need for gas engine maintenance and other frustrations.
Compared to AC-powered tools, MX Fuel eliminates trip hazards, voltage drops, and the need to walk over to electrical panels to reset tripped breakers.
Milwaukee has designed MX Fuel from the ground up, with new Li-ion batteries, new motors, and new electronics.
Milwaukee M12, M18, MX Fuel Coexistence
MX Fuel will be the cordless system that “provides best-in-class light equipment solutions.”
Milwaukee M18 will continue to “deliver power tool solutions that don’t compromise on power and performance.”
Milwaukee M12 will continue to see a focus on “portable power and transforming inefficient manual tools into advanced workhorses powered by cordless technology.”
In press materials, Milwaukee adds:
Milwaukee Tool will remain unwavering in their commitment to delivering disruptive innovation by working alongside trade professionals to identify challenges and provide solutions that are unparalleled in enhancing jobsite safety and productivity. The future of the jobsite is cordless.
Milwaukee says that MX Fuel will “fundamentally change jobsites everywhere.”
These are some very big claims. Let’s take a look at the new MX Fuel battery-powered light equipment solutions, and please let us know in comments what you think about Milwaukee’s newest cordless platform.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Batteries and Charger
We had the opportunity to attend Milwaukee’s NPS19 media event where they showcased their new MX Fuel tools and technologies.
One thing was very clear – MX Fuel is not an 18V-class battery pack. It’s not a 10-cell hold-in-your-hand 36V battery. Forget about how far cordless power tool or outdoor power equipment batteries have come. MX Fuel delivers next-level power and capabilities.
We actually weren’t told about its operating voltage. Why? Because it doesn’t matter. If I told you that this was a 36V battery or a 60V Max battery, or even a 240V Max battery, would that make a difference? At this time, the number isn’t important.
There will be a compact MX Fuel battery pack, and a high capacity one. Milwaukee’s “everything fits” philosophy will apply – every MX Fuel battery will fit every MX Fuel tool.
- MX Fuel CP203 Battery
- Compact with (20) Li-ion cells
- Charges in 45 minutes
- 10.6″ long x 3.9″ wide x 4.1″ tall
- Weighs 5.9 lbs
- MX Fuel XC406 Battery
- Extended capacity with (40) Li-ion cells
- Charges in 90 minutes
- 10.6″ long x 7.1″ wide x 4.1″ tall
- Weighs 10.6 lbs
Both batteries have an integrated carry handle, battery fuel gauge, and are said to have 5X more protective rubber overmold for greater impact absorption and durability.
The charger, MXFC, features cell voltage monitoring, an on-board carry handle, and internal cooling fan.
It won’t be long before we know how many watt-hours these new Milwaukee MX Fuel Li-ion batteries are rated at. What really matters is that Milwaukee MX Fuel batteries were designed specifically for the new and future MX Fuel solutions and equipment.
From the renders, it looks like the CP (compact) battery has 20 cells, and the XC (extended capacity) battery 40 cells. This is unconfirmed.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Power Supply (MXF002-1XC)
I was particularly interested in the new Milwaukee MX Fuel Carry-On power supply, as that’s probably the only one of the new cordless products that I could see myself using.
The Carry-On power supply is described as compact, quiet, and portable.
3600/1800 means that the MX Fuel Carry-On power supply can deliver up to 1800W of continuous power, which translates to 15A of current to 120V devices, and it can sustain peaks of 3600W.
There are some products that you can just lift and get an immediate sense of its quality, and this is one such product. It makes competing products, at least those on the US market that we’ve had exposure to, feel like toys.
I found it very fitting that you could mount an M12/M18 multi-voltage charger on the side of the unit.
The Milwaukee MX Fuel Carry-On power supply can also fit one or two batteries. There are two outlets and battery fuel gauges for each battery.
Milwaukee One-Key provides for tracking and management.
Milwaukee says that the Carry-On can power a 55″ LCD television for more than 7 hours. I expect that we’ll get more runtime specs as we learn more about the Milwaukee MX Fuel system and the first wave of tools.
Oh, and it outputs a pure sinewave, and not a “modified sinewave.” This is important for some equipment, but not for others. Basically, a pure sinewave provides a more perfect AC voltage.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Breaker (MXF368-1XC)
Perhaps the most iconic new Milwaukee MX Fuel solution will be the breaker. A cordless breaker?! For concrete demolition? Yep.
Milwaukee says that the new MX Fuel breaker delivers a faster, safer, and easier concrete demolition experience, and that it is the most productive breaker, providing the lowest vibration, lightest weight, and it can break over 2 tons of concrete per charger.
Here you can see the size of the MX Fuel battery. You can’t power something this with a Li-ion cordless power tool battery.
You’ll still need dust collection or containment equipment, but there are no AC power cords or gas engine needs on the tool itself.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Breaker Specs
- 1-1/8″ hex chuck size
- Soft start
- Vibration: 4.9 m/s²
- Impact Energy: 50 ft lbs
- 1300 BPM
- 32.2″ length, 25.1″ width, 11.6″ height
- Weighs 63.9 lbs
- LED lights
- Front handle for easier transportation
- One-Key compatible
Milwaukee MX Fuel Breaker Runtime with (1) XC Battery
- 40′ x 12″ wide trench x 6″ deep
- 2x sidewalk slabs 5′ x 4′ x 6″ deep
Milwaukee MX Fuel Rocket Tower Light (MXF041-1XC)
The new MX Fuel Rocket tower light was big. When deployed, it was too tall for me to get a good photo. The MX Fuel Rocket light literally towers over the other MX Fuel tools in a display.
But, it does collapse into a very portable package.
This isn’t a “light up a dim attic” tool, it’s a “light up the entire jobsite” kind of area light. It’s the kind of light you see hooked up to generators at worksites, but this one is battery-powered.
Milwaukee describes the new MX Fuel Rocket Tower light as being the most portable 10-foot light for both indoor and outdoor use, and that it provides up to 27,000 lumens of task and area lighting. They also say that the new light can withstand the harshest jobsite environments.
The MX Fuel Rocket tower light deploys fast and each unit is self-contained, powered by an MX Fuel battery. No gas engine power generators required.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Rocket Light Specs
- 27,000 max lumens
- High/med/low outputs
- Four adjustable light heads
- 44″ tall x 20.75″ wide x 24.75″ long
- 10′ extended height
- Weighs 108 lbs
- Motorized mast – sets up in seconds
- 8″ all-terrain wheels
- Sealed battery box
- One-Key compatible
Milwaukee MX Fuel Cut-Off Saw (MXF314-1XC)
I don’t use large cut-off saws, but even I recognize this new MX Fuel saw to be a beauty. It’s a 14″ saw that Milwaukee says provides “true 14″ cutting capacity.” They boast it provides the fastest cuts from start to finish. It provides “the best 14″ cut-off saw experience” thanks to less vibration, no emissions, quiet operation, and no gas headaches.
Could you cut large diameter pipes with smaller cordless cut-off saws? Maybe, but it’ll take a while, with smaller tools likely starved for power.
It can be used to cut block.
Or guide it through a long cut into concrete slab. Milwaukee says it delivers the power to cut through 5″ thick concrete. The cut-off saw cart will be available separately.
MX Fuel Cut-off Saw Specs
- 14″ blade diameter
- 5350 RPM
- Universal quick connect hose for water connection
- Wheels on the front aid with straight cuts
- Push-button activation starts with 97% less effort
- 31.73″ length, 13.83″ height
- Weighs 32 lbs
- 5″ depth of cut
- 1″/20 mm blade arbor size
- One-Key compatible
MX Fuel Cut-off Saw Runtime with (2) XC Batteries:
- 5″ concrete depth of cut: 14′
- 8″ ductile iron pipe: 8 cuts
- 8″ PVC pipe: 52 cuts
- Corrugated metal deck: 106′
- 8″ cinder block: 22 cuts
- 8″ cast iron pipe: 10 cuts
The kit comes with (1) XC406 battery.
Milwaukee MX Fuel Core Drill (MXF301)
The new MX Fuel core drill gives users control and enhanced safety with AutoStop technology.
AutoStop technology means that the core drill will shut down if it binds or jams, helping to protect users from kickback and counter-rotation forces.
It comes with a versatile support system and can bore holes of up to 6″ diameter in reinforced concrete.
You can mount the carrier system to a wall, or use it to drill into the floor.
The MX Fuel core drill can also be used separate from the guiding rail accessory.
The core drill will be available in a kit (MXF301-1CP), and in a kit with the stand (MXF301-2CXS).
MX Fuel Core Drill Specs
- 6″ max core bit capacity
- Spindle sizes: 1-1/4″-7 and 5/8″-11 adapter
- Speed: 790/1550 low/high RPM
- 21.58″ long x 4.80″ wide x 9.29″ high
- Weighs 21.58 lbs
- Clutch and AutoStop technology prevents over-rotation
- Pressure gauge and LED level
- Push-button activation
- On-board water connection
- Can be used for wet or dry drilling
- One-Key compatible
MX Fuel Core Drill Runtime
- (9) 3″ diameter holes in block with CP (compact) battery
- (5) 3″ holes in 6″ concrete with CP battery
- (18) 3″ holes in block with XC battery
Milwaukee MX Fuel Sewer Drum Machine (MXF501-1CP)
At NPS19, Milwaukee described how the new MX Fuel sewer drum machine with PowerTredz lift assist can simplify service calls by only requiring one person to transport it from a service van to where it’s needed, even if that’s up or down stairs.
It can clear roots out to 200 feet, and also has an enclosed drum to help contain a cleared mess. The last thing you want is to slosh any debris into the client’s space as you walk the machine back to a service van or truck.
The MX Fuel drum machine can power-climb up and down stairs!
There are other hand trucks on the market with “stair climbing” belts, but powered ones?
The tracks on the MX Fuel sewer drum machine look leaps and bounds more effective than what was showed off as the competing model, which looks to me like a Ridgid K-7500.
The demonstration of the new MX Fuel drum machine was impressive, making it look almost effortless to transport up and down stairs.
MX Fuel Drum Machine Specs
- 200′ drain line capacity
- Drum capacity: 100 ft of 5/8″ or 3/4″ cable
- Recommended for use on 3″ to 6″ pipes
- 8″ max pipe size
- Manual or automatic feed
- 200 RPM cable spin speed
- 22″ wide x 32/5″ long x 47″ tall
- Weighs 125 lbs
- Powers through multiple jobs on a single charge
- One-Key compatible
Did Milwaukee really need to come out with a new cordless platform? Yes.
Benjamen also attended NPS19, and so I let myself separate from some of the MX Fuel rotations to chat with Paul Fry, Milwaukee’s VP of Cordless Product Management.
Almost immediately, there were two main questions I had to ask. Why not use M18 cordless power tool batteries for tools and equipment like this? Does the emergence of a new cordless battery system alter Milwaukee’s “M18 – everything fits!” philosophy?
The fact of the matter, Fry argued, is that cordless power tool batteries were simply not designed for the demands of heavier tools and equipment of this nature.
To effectively provide new solutions that eases users’ frustration and meets their needs, a new system was necessary.
To truly replace gas engine equipment or heavier AC tools, a new system needed to be designed and engineered from the ground up.
Milwaukee press materials describe how the MX Fuel cordless system has three main components, similar to their most advanced M18 cordless power tools – Powerstate brushless motors, RedLink Plus intelligence, and RedLithium battery technology.
There will be detractors I’m sure. But to do what Milwaukee is doing, for there to be cordless tools and equipment of this nature, would you rather have a distinct and separate system designed specifically for light construction equipment and related applications and demands, or compromises and sacrifices?
No, these tools could never be powered by M18 Li-ion battery packs.
The demands for these tools called for an all-new battery system. It’s not just the electrical power requirements, but the punishment the tools will be put through, and the environments in which they’ll be used.
The MX FUEL System was designed to withstand the size and mass of these products, as well as future equipment categories, and to power not only this application but the capability for us to continue driving forward into larger pieces of Light Construction Equipment.
I’m curious to learn more about the voltage, charge capacity, and power potential of the new Milwaukee MX Fuel battery packs. But, at least for the time being, there’s no competition. There doesn’t seem to be any battery-powered tools or equipment like this on the market, and there probably won’t be any others for quite a while.
Milwaukee designed the MX Fuel battery packs to power their new 14″ cut-off saw, concrete demo hammer breaker, drum machine, 10 ft tower light, robust portable power supply, 6″ max core drill, and likely a slew of additional MX Fuel products on their R&D roadmap.
How are Milwaukee’s closest cordless power tool competitors going to respond? Are we going to see multi-battery breakers, core drills, and 14″ cut-off saws? Or has Milwaukee just started a new cordless power equipment tech race?
It looks to me that Milwaukee Tool has changed the game, or rather they just created an entirely new one.
Milwaukee has broken into a new market for them, and it’s going to put competitors and other light equipment makers on notice. Are gas engine and AC tool and equipment makers prepared to develop the cordless technologies necessary to stave off this new competition from Milwaukee? Are cordless tool competitors working on their own light equipment systems? Even if the answer is “yes” to both, Milwaukee looks to have a lengthy head start.
With this new MX Fuel cordless tool and equipment system, there is almost no limit as to what we might see next. Such is often the case with breakthrough technologies.
Yes, there is still room for Milwaukee’s M18 cordless power tool system to extend further into higher-powered equipment. But with MX Fuel, the floor is much higher than M18’s ceiling. Heck, judging from the nature of these tools, MX Fuel looks to be capable of significantly higher power than anything Milwaukee’s cordless competitors have on the market.
This is just the launch of Milwaukee’s MX Fuel line, and we don’t have full specs and details for the individual tools yet, but I am very excited to see what comes next.
What are your thoughts on the new Milwaukee MX Fuel system and new tools?
I just got this email and thought, “Why have I never heard of this?!” And ran over to you Stuart. I was not disappointed! This looks pretty amazing. It definitely won’t be for the average contractor, but wow, this looks like a real game changer for higher powered equipment.
Why have we never heard of it, if it was featured at NPS? I did not see it in any NPS coverage. Did they make you sign a NDA or just kindly ask you to keep it quiet?
Either way, why have a media event if the media is not allowed to report what they saw?
I follow some people on Instagram that talked about Milwaukee requiring everyone to sign an NDA and that could talk about it around November. I had actually forgotten about it until I loaded Tool Guyd today. Such a fun read! Thanks Stuart!!
It was protected by strict NDA and media embargo, which really isn’t a big deal at all.
No, it is not a big deal at all. It just kinda takes away the excitement of following the events if they are hiding the good stuff for a few months. It’s like opening Christmas presents in March.
There were plenty of non-embargoed tools and new releases to be excited over.
If not for some of the live-streamers making a big deal out of having to stop filming, nobody would have had a clue there were any secrets.
Let’s say I buy a LEGO set for my son, gift wrap it, show it to him, and tell him he can’t even peek at the box for two months. That’s pretty harsh. But if I hide it from him, I’m better prepared ahead of time, and he never suspects a thing.
Would you rather there was no embargo or information of any kind, and that we all learned about this at the same time?
And… I’ve been internally speculating about MX Fuel and the Carry-On power supply for months before NPS19, after finding related trademark applications. Realizing it was BIG news, I asked some questions and was asked to keep a lid on things.
Now, just imagine what other new tools and tech we know about but can’t share or talk about… =)
I remember a few years back, Stanley FatMax did a presentation on their new magnetic tape measures, and the information was under media embargo. Then, at a soon-following NPS event, Milwaukee announced their first magnetic tape measures, and I was able to post about those earlier than the FatMax tapes.
Media embargoes and NDAs are a part of the industry, like any other. The thing, is you’re never really supposed to hear about them, and so there shouldn’t be any loss of excitement or anything like that.
What logic. You should have your very own tool guide related blog! No really.
I completely agree with Milwaukee’s NDAs requirement and your well prepared new platform intro.
And what a Great Leap Forward indeed.
I wouldn’t blame some of the live streamers for being upset about the way this was done. Many of them were veteran NPS attenders, and I think were kinda shocked at the way Milwaukee did this.
In previous years they were always upfront about embargoed areas in the beginning of the show, or they didn’t have any. At this show they had a 1.5 or 2 hour keynote time slot (I don’t remember exactly), and then a few minutes into the keynote they drop the NDA on us.
Going to a show is really fun, but it can be really stressful too. Having a plan, and then radically changing it in the middle of the event is a good way to make people upset.
Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t looking forward to a super long keynote, but I was going to relax and look through all my photos to see what I still needed to get, while keeping an ear open.
They couldn’t announce this at the same time as trying to convince people to pay big bucks for their 12.0 HO powered tools… that joke was just to convince people that 18V could compete with anything. Now they’re quietly admitting that it can’t, while trying to convince people how “innovative” a higher voltage platform is.
I knew as soon as I saw that thick marketing campaign about the “next big thing” (according to them) that something big would come from Milwaukee soon. This is not “innovation”, this is them trying to convince people they need to buy into an entirely new battery platform in order to have HO tools. So far it seems to be working, as all the Milwaukee sheep seem to be eating this up.
Well at least Lance gets it ?
It’s cool for sure, I bet the prices are going to be next level as well. That said, I think a MIG/TIG welder would be a great addition. Also, while its geared towards job sites, I could see this working for OPE. A mower is missing in their lineup.
Some websites have preorder up. Kit prices range from $2000 to $3500. The batteries are $350 and $600. A spare charger is $200.
The tower light price is a bit surprising, $3000. Which seems high to me but as I’m not in this market might actually be cheaper than gas powered options.
I think Dewalt will answer the threat by producing more x2 Flexvolt tools like the 12′ miter saw. Since these are big stationary tools, I don’t think using two batteries will pose a problem from an ergonomic point of view.
Basically, it’s Milwaukee admitting you need higher voltage batteries for some applications. It seems like a great system though but it is a different voltage battery however they spin it… I have no problem with it as I think a higher voltage battery is a better solution but just be honest 🙂
Hahahahahahaha really! Do you really think 2x flexvolt would really power a cordless concrete breaker! Be serious now. It would suck the juice in just the first 5 min! Milwaukee will always be king in innovation. While dewalt plays catch up. Like Stuart said, wanting to know the voltage at this point is silly. flex volt vs MX. is like comparing a Colorado vs a 3500 Silverado. Be real now!
King in innovation, how about Flexvolt?
Flexvolt lol really, dewalt has always played the volt game. For the un educated 20v max seems more that 18v in any given math. Once any tool trigger that markets 20v max the volt drops to 18v. Flex volt is just the same! Yea it says 60v max. But 60v on a 12amp 20v battery the 60v amp draw is only 4amp hours. Meaning Milwaukee’s 18v 12am HO battery and compete with a 60v battery’s Milwaukee just simplifies there marketing instead of trying to deceive people. Milwaukee’s battery’s are all compatible. Dewalts are not.
No matter how you slice it and dice it; you will always have higher resistance with smaller voltage = loss of efficiency! You can cheat basic physics. Only uneducated folks don’t have a clue about resistance. 54v @4amp will always outperform 18v @ 12amp given the same scenario. EU has 54v Flexvolt. I think 20V is marketing thing so folks won’t get confused with old-style 18v. I knew that Milwaukee wasn’t going to stay in 18v forever; just like Makita, Hitachi/Metabo, Hilti, Bosch, and few others. I’m still loving M12 line, it just 18v-22v can’t compete with 60v.
Based on MX amp rating my guess is that Milwaukee jumped over Dewalt’s 60V with their 72V or 80V. I think it was about time and hope they come out with some more tools.
If 20 cell MX Fuel can power concrete breaker then don’t be silly if you think that Flexvolt 15cell X 2=30 cells won’t!
Just because 18V Fuel batteries are all compatible doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Try running 2.0 amp battery in a table saw; you are just going to cook that battery to death; there is a reason why you will never see 2.0 amp battery in a kit.
I’m a proud polygamist = not married to one platform/brand!
@Pietro, i think you might need refresher course in Physics…
resistance = voltage / current
The concrete breaker, you’ll probably need four. 2 will be enough to power the concrete saw. They’ll just need different adapter plates. Will see. Maybe they’ll come up with a new battery as it won’t be doable. I’m just guessing what their strategy would be,
But I still think it’s silly the way Milwaukee try to spin it that the voltage does not matter now but when flexvolt was introduced they were promoting how they had just ONE battery to power everything. Just admit it instead of trying to distort the fact. You need more than one battery platform and that’s totally fine. They are becoming the Apple of the tools world really.
Btw, I like Milwaukee. I have tools from both brands but their marketing is just too much sometimes…
Well, I think it is possible. Just speculation, but….
The compact battery is 20 cells, my guess is all connected in series (72v) for a 3.0Ah rating and 216 watt hours of power. The larger 40 cell would be two sets of 20, in parallel for the 6.0Ah rating and 432 watt-hours of power. The x2 Flexvolt setup gives you 112v and up to 4.0Ah, totaling 448 watt-hours of power. Pictured, they are using the larger 40 cell battery on the breaker. So in theory, it would be possible to power the breaker using 2 Flexvolt batteries.
Now that is assuming they are using “standard” 21700 3.6v 3000 mAh cells, we don’t know. I may (probably) be wayyy off.
You beat me to it Big Richard, but great minds and all that lol.
On ProTools they state that the MX batteries use 3.6V 21700 cells, so I’d think your calcs are correct.
Using FlexVolt 20V Max/60V Max math, let’s say each Li-ion cell has max voltage of 4.0V per cell. 3.6V is nominal and more correct, but for the sake of consistency, we’ll use Dewalt calculation conventions.
FlexVolt 9.0Ah battery: 15x 3.0Ah cells x 4.0V = 180 watt-hours
FlexVolt 12.0Ah battery: 15 x 4.0Ah cells x 4.0V = 240 watt-hours
MX Fuel CP battery: 20 x 3.0Ah x 4.0V = 240 watt-hours
MX Fuel XC battery: 40 x 3.0Ah x 4.0V = 480 watt-hours
So, the MX Fuel compact battery holds as much watt-hour power potential as the largest Dewalt FlexVolt battery. The MX Fuel XC battery doubles that.
Now, Milwaukee is using 3.0Ah cells in these MX Fuel batteries. They can very well use 4.0Ah cells, and maybe that’s something we’ll see next year with the second wave of MX Fuel tool and equipment releases.
MX Fuel starts where FlexVolt hits their ceiling.
You could argue that Flexvolt 120V Max, with two batteries can compete here.
How many FlexVole 120V Max tools are there today? Why hasn’t Dewalt come out with more tools that fit two batteries?
It’s not productive to look at numbers like these without context.
Wouldn’t this mean that two 12.0ah FlexVolt batteries be equivalent to the new Milwaukee MX XC battery? If so, what would the size and weight comparison be of the two FlexVolt to the MX XC? If two FlexVolt batteries are equivalent, wouldn’t the DeWalt system be a lot more modular? Use the same batteries in a 20v tool, 60v, and 120v? Thanks.
Kizzle – On paper, yes two FlexVolt 12.0 batteries would be equal in power potential to one MX XC battery. Unfortunately specs on paper are not always the whole story. Makita could also achieve 480 watt-hours max with 3 of their new 4.0 40v XGT batteries.
As for size, one MX XC battery would have 40 21700 cells, where as two FlexVolt 12.0s would have only 30 cells of the same size, so roughly 25% less weight/size.
IF DeWalt, and Makita for that matter, choose to come out with their own light equipment utilizing 2x, 3x, or 4x battery setups it would be more “modular” but its also a lot of batteries to deal with. Each has its advantages/disadvantages, imo.
Also the pack construction consideration can be a huge proponent of how it performs on these larger, power-hungry tools they’re designed for. A Flexvolt battery was engineered to be as small and light as possible using whatever cells could be physically packed inside so it can still be used on a smaller hand tool. With Milwaukees ground up pack design, they could engineer it in a way to keep the cells the coolest possible by spacing them apart if needed, have the thickest copper connecting each cell, etc etc. That way they can perform potentially much better than a 2X battery tool since no compromises were taken. Use a flexvolt battery in a high amp draw tool (i.e. lawnmower, SDS MAX, etc) in the middle of summer heat, drain it fully, then plug it into the charger. It will take a ton of time to cool off (I’ve seen upwards of an hour) before it can begin re-charging. That time is potentially shorter on Milwaukees new pack. We won’t know for sure until people begin testing, but that’s my hunch. Could be a game changer for the professional.
Wasn’t Milwaukee the king of “it’s all about watt hours, not voltage” when FlexVolt came out?
The CP MX packs are 20 cell, likely 3000 mah. 3.6×20 = 72v, x3.0 = 216 watt hours. The larger packs are 40 cells, 432 watt hours I’d imagine.
A Flexvolt 4.0 is 54×4= 216 watt hours.
If anything these packs look to much more robust for protection against weather, dust and contaminants.
That’s the thing, the numbers show that Dewalt FlexVolt’s upper ceiling is around where Milwaukee placed MX Fuel’s starting floor.
But that ignores the logic of using multiple batteries which both DeWalt and Makita, and now Milwaukee with their powerstation have shown the ability to do. Multiple batteries is far more modular and has its place, just like a purpose-built battery like MX does. The Venn diagram of potential tools for MX and FlexVolt has a lot of overlap imo.
Dewalt has not yet reached the potential of what they can do with FlexVolt. I think there can definitely be some overlap.
It won’t be so easy for Dewalt to say “hey we can make those same tools,” and simply design them with a 2X FlexVolt battery interface.
Look at what Makita is doing. They have an 18V X2 system but is now launching their new XGT system of 18V-sized 36V batteries.
Dewalt recently discontinued their 40V Max Li-ion cordless OPE tool system.
Lots of changes are coming to the industry, with different brands taking their own approaches.
IF Dewalt was going to go the 2X battery route, we surely would have seen more activity by now. Right? I don’t think they’re going to try to compete with FlexVolt as-is.
Stuart, I agree with what you are saying. I do find it funny that Milwaukee almost petulantly won’t publish or discuss the voltage of the MX packs, because that would contradict their earlier arguments against Flexvolt.
Flexvolt batteries have one major advantage going for them: 2x 54V = 108V, near as dammit to 110V as you can get. I know DC voltage is not the same as AC voltage, but I’ve measured the AC voltage at plenty of DC powered brushless motors: the AC voltage across phases usually tops out at around the same as the battery voltage. It obviously makes for easier inversion.
Dewalt can pretty easily convert any corded 110VAC tool to a dual Flexvolt format: we’ve seen it with the 12” mitre saw, and we’ll see it more, I’m sure. And the AC adaptor option is a real bonus.
Makita recently announced their new XGT 36V system. Let’s say they have an XGT X2 system that takes two batteries. So that’ll be 72V with two 10-cell packs for 20 cells total.
If Milwaukee marketed their MX Fuel as a 72V lineup, some people might look at XGT X2 and MX Fuel and only see the 72V part, not realizing that with an XC pack the MX Fuel battery has larger cells and double the count for much greater power potential.
Additionally, Milwaukee is very particular about MX Fuel being described as a light equipment system. These are light construction equipment, and not quite akin to the cordless power tools the phrase might lead most tool users to envision. So, not mentioning the voltage potentially eliminates the comparative link.
Thinking of the MX Fuel line as “cordless power tools” rather than “light equipment” is inaccurate and very off-axis, and so my thoughts are that avoiding voltage discussions avoids the type of conscious or subconscious links that might lead to such comparisons or contexts.
Cordless power tool batteries and their interfaces are designed for some vibratory endurance and drop resistance. But with MX Fuel we’re talking about >50 lbs tools.
There really is no benefit to anyone for official marketing or language about the operating voltage, but plenty of potential downsides.
They are copying Dewalt, didn’t Milwaukee state that they weren’t gonna change battery platforms and look at the size of those tools the thing with battery operated tools you want compact and light, Milwaukee is looking like a fool and keep supporting Chinese owned companies
They aren’t changing platforms, but adding.
What M18 tool do you want powered by one of those bricks? Arguably, the only ones really could be large saws. Everything else is designed to be in your hand, and I don’t need that battery in my hand along with a tool 1/5 it’s size.
TTI is a Hong Kong-based company. And it’s not like they can forcefully break themselves away from whatever resources TTI currently has at their disposal.
Not a real wise thing to be saying either way. Lol
I had the same no new battery platform thought when I was this at the show, but after some exposure, I don’t think it is merited.
I understand that they wanted to utilize the press that they already had at NPS to help publicize the release, but I wonder if it wasn’t a bad idea because I’ve seen a lot of people think that these tools are targeted at the same market as the M18. MX Fuel is a completely different price range than M18, and I think people used to the M18 line are going to gasp at the prices they are going to charge.
This isn’t like Flexvolt vs 20V Max where they are the same tools, only a little bit more powerful, this is like comparing lawnmowers to farm tractors.
Yes there is some overlap, but I think maybe they would have been better served by having a different event with the more apropos industry media there.
yes, they have done a big thing versus DW for NOT having different platforms..
No MKE or DW fanboy here (own both) and enjoy using both tremendously……..MKE leadership is all ex DW leadership, IMO – MKE knows how to play the marketing game better then 15 years ago………very cool innovation by MKE.
Gang big picture here, what other tools (power/OPE/other) can support the battery form factor?
We need to brainstorm………
I think you and Milwaukee should get a room lol the bias is strong in you
I also believe Flexvolt has that potentail. Like larger cell 60v only batteries, 24 amp hour ect. Dewalt has been way to slow on making new Flexvolt equipment and if they do not get on it! They will be left behind. Hello Dewalt wake up!
That power supply system looks very interesting for a DIY / homeowner who sometimes uses a generator for projects at home and on the road. Did you get a sense of the approximate weight of a battery and the power supply unit with a battery? Most of the other equipment is pictured being transported with wheels. I’ve got an 80 pound generator and would be interested in something more easily carried.
It’s gonna be way to expensive for that
Yeah, I’ll bet you’re right
Have to agree, the Dewalt powerstation is priced in the vicinity of a pure sine Honda once you have batteries worth using on it, and that can at least be justified with other tools.
This is a specialized lineup so to buy the batteries and just the inverter will be a nonstarter I’d imagine. Pure sine isn’t cheap.
On the other hand the commercial photography market just got a big power source boost!
Pure sine at this level of battery output will lead to lots of new continuous and strobe light adaptations.
It felt manageable, but definitely robust and a little heavy.
I don’t remember the pricing, but it wasn’t exorbitantly high, especially compared to the pure sinewave battery packs sold for photography or video equipment use. I know a lot of creative types will love a blacked-out version for event use.
Interesting, thanks, Stuart and all. This looks like it might be more power than the power source batteries offered by Goal Zero and Jackery and others, and the modular design of the Milwaukee–to be able to swap out batteries (and ultimately replace batteries) makes this appealing. And, of course, being able to run the power source inside gives options that rival the benefits of a traditional generator or an inverter generator. I wonder, too, if there will be a solar recharging option in the Milwaukee system.
I feel like the power backup is also gonna make a mint in sales to military, EMS and rescue teams. With pure sine wave output, there’s a lot of sensitive equipment that can be run silently and without exhaust fumes. Moreover, although the prices seem a very high to regular consumers, they are positively peanuts to the medical/rescue/military customer groups.
I don’t know about that.
A few years ago when they showcased their M18 Tower lights I asked about whether they would make an IP-rated design and market it to military or government users, since I recognized Pelican as their grayed-out competitor. At that time they expressed that this wasn’t in their plans.
I agree that Milwaukee might be successful in marketing a variant for such applications and users, but this probably isn’t in their plans.
I just don’t get the whole FUEL name thing …
^This. For the love of god Milwaukee name it something else instead of using the word “fuel” for everything. So annoying when companies do this.
Milwaukee’s success is very much dependent on marketing.
“Fuel” was the designation for premium brushless, now it’s just name/brand recognition. Although, technically I’m sure that area light is brushless…
I understand what Milwaukee wants the FUEL designation to stand for, I just remain convinced that from the get-go it has been a poor naming choice based on the fact that “ fuel “ to me means “ fossil fuel “ gas/diesel (ignoring coal) … it is like a misnomer, even the opposite of battery tech. And fuel means fire.
Now add the MX prefix – I get that they want it to be for extra or something – but coincidentally it is international short form for Mexico.
In keeping with their own number and voltage convention, they could have gone with M72, M96 or whatever it is.
Rather than going with MX Fuel Light, Saw, …
M72 would have been rather simple.
Sounds like they want the user to be unaware of the platform voltage, like “its Milwaukee Fuel, it’s awesome and that’s all you need to know.”
Didnt even realize that until you posted. I suppose one might argue all those new tools will be brushless. The. Again, bone of their lights are brushless.
If Fuel was supposed to be the high-end brushless, they should try to only use it in that context.
I was hoping for a cultivator attachment on their Qik-Lok OPE (another term they have applied to different tools, hole hawg & trimmer, smh), but suppose they could put it on this new platform.
Stuart, any mention on a snowblower or yard type equipment on this platform? I see them not going this route, as the MX platform seems directed at a different segment, and keeping homeowners on M18.
There has not been any chatter about an MX Fuel snowblower or similar.
FUEL is the designation chosen for the combination of their Powerstate premium brushless motors, Red Link circuitry/software for maximizing efficiency and performance, and Red Lithium battery technology for maximizing capacity and output while minimizing heat and battery pack degredation.
These tools and batteries clearly fit that designation. Seems like an obvious choice of marketing tie-in.
So the power station has a Powerstate premium brushless motor? See our point now?
From what I’ve been seeing Milwaukee wants to state the output in horsepower now not volts lol It’s not about the voltage ?
Now that this is public can anyone confirm the voltage? Makes me wonder how this stacks up to DeWalt flexvolt. It is clearly a different form factor.
20 cells in the compact pack, 21700 sized, so… maybe 72V? 80V Max?
You don’t need to know, obviously! It’s Red so it’s the best, right? Rolls eyes….
One thing I noticed right away is how big they all are. That jackhammer looks twice the size of a normal plug in one. 3 times the size of a Compressed air jackhammer.
Same with the concrete saw looks huge.
Power station looks neat. Probably the only tool i would look at in residential applications.
Milwaukee lists the weight as 63.9lbs which I think includes the battery but I can’t be sure.
Keep in mind as a company needing these tools to complete a job what the other equipment you’d need with a corded one (generator) or compressed air (generator and compressor) on a jobsite. That’s a ton of extra cost for the system to complete a job, not to mention maintenance for that additional equipment and the extension cords, air hoses, etc.
Keep in mind the batteries you’ll need to stock and charge as well. A big company doing big jobs is going to need a big stash of batteries and chargers.
So far I see a single bay charger, which is a fail if I’m a big company looking to go cordless.
It’s a little hard to see (and I’m admittedly not entirely awake.) but… Does each one of these monsters have its own Dolly/Cart/Mount Device? Don’t count the Light… it appears to be its own Dolly/Cart/Etc… but it looks like there is either an already-established convertable cart for them all, or a different cart all together for different uses.
This kinda screams “Awkward to Handle” to me, hence the carts to make that easier. This is not a complaint, it’s me recognizing some real thought going into an obvious necessity for this line.
That said… Uh… Do they expect to sell a great number of these? We’re talking 10 of these for every million+ sold of the M18 line, right? They’re still banking on the regular lines, just in case these don’t catch on with their respective industries? I can see these in City Works departments in the really wealthy cities of the world, where the normal noise complaints and such would be negated by these. I can certainly see these on Surveyor teams and Mining Company work details where carrying out that kind of power is just more efficient. I just can’t quite fathom something this new, this OBVIOUSLY Expensive, suddenly replacing the old equipment it’s supposed to replace.
Given 10 years for a rollover to this system, yeah… I can see more large construction companies going here. But I hope this system isn’t going to depend on the interest of the first quarter, half, or even first 5 years’ worth of sales to determine its success or failure.
And, frankly… I am willing to bet DeWALT will just ignore this. They’re moving out of this type of thing, and I don’t blame them. This would be a HUGE gamble that could easily tank a corporation with public shareholders, expecting dividends to roll in. I’m hoping Milwaukee hasn’t bet the farm on this new system. The modern economic markets won’t see the 10 year rollout as a good thing, but the innovators and industrial workers who use them would definitely be fine with the move this direction. But I am positive this will be a very slow burn type of release rate. We’ll see them released, but it will take a long time to adopt. I hope no one sees this as a failure for such a big change.
Honestly, I see 120v FlexVolt tools as a more attractive option, and that’s coming from a guy who owns TONS of cordless tools on many platforms and not one is DeWalt. I was very close to buying their 120v FV miter saw but stayed with Makita’s 36v model instead.
Dual battery versions of regular tools have piles and piles of power and great run time. Going with a newer large-format battery platform just doesn’t make much sense to me.
I can’t see the appeal in these MX tools for most people/contractors. Maybe larger companies or for remote jobs…
That IS the appeal for the MX tools. Larger Companies and Remote Jobs. It’s not FOR everyone. These are breaking into a level above the “Mass Market” tools we’re used to.
I see the benefit of the FlexVOLT system as well, but they’re not in the same class of industry that the MX Fuel series are. And I AM a DeWALT guy saying this. DeWALT doesn’t make a Bobcat mini dozer/forklift either, but it doesn’t mean I want them to. Tesla’s vehicle batteries are unique among all he electric vehicles out there, so I wouldn’t compare a Tesla to, say, a Dodge Ram 1500 with a Hemi engine, for example.
We’re not talking Red Versus Yellow anymore. We MIGHT be talking Stihl versus Milwaukee now. Perhaps CAT versus Milwaukee. Honda, John Deere, iRobot… The companies that make MUCH bigger systems of tools. This is NOT for the Homeowner, Contractor, or “Common” Tradesman. This is large scale operations stuff, or at least scratching the bottom edge of that level, for the first time. This is somewhat like when Chevy Volt went up against the Honda Prius, then Tesla spanked them like naughty children. It’s an all new competitor, in a new sector of, of an industry that has been using outdated technology for decades.
Milwaukee isn’t spanking DeWALT with the MX Fuel systems. They’re spanking CAT, Stihl, and several other large-equipment makers on their low-end tools.
I’m not trying to start a fight here, I’m just changing the analogy so we’re on the same page, okay Lance?
Understood Joe, but the skeptic in me sees Milwaukee stopping M18 HO tool development and using the MX battery platform instead. I doubt we’ll see a Gen 2 M18 Fuel table saw, for example.
For those invested in M18, that’s going to hurt. The only place left for Milwaukee to go with M18 is a dual battery setup, and they seem too proud to follow in the footsteps of others.
I understand. I’m a DeWALT guy after all. Look at all the lines DeWALT just kinda… gave up on. 54, 36, 28, 14.4, 8V Max… I hold out hope that they find some new applications for the 8V Max line some day, or at least continue supporting it. But, seeing them roll out FlexVOLT, then drop the 40V system tools from their existence, then start passing their stuff over to the Craftsman line? That hurts a bit.
But, I will also say that, seeing the form factor of the new MX Fuel batteries, and the tools that use them… it’s less like finding out they won’t run on M18 batteries, and more like suddenly discovering a company, that no one has heard of before, just released a fully-electric Car, while all the competition was talking about “Fuel Efficiency” of their vehicles. That’s what this MX Fuel line screams at me. I can’t even picture these as Tradesman Tools. These are Milwaukee putting on their Tesla Motors hat, and kicking Chevy and Honda to the curb, decades ahead of anything they’re doing.
Back in the Tool division of Milwaukee, I’m sure they’ll get around to multi-battery systems again. They’ll move forward on that front. But… Look at these MX tools! We’re talking major jobs, way too big for mass consumption here. Great, your Wife is expecting Twins… You get to the Emergency, she starts pushing… and despite all the Sonograms you went to, Out pops a THIRD… What in the hell happened, right?
Same with MX Fuel. Lots of Milwaukee users were expecting, by all accounts, that Team Red would follow suit with DeWALT and start going High Voltage, Multi-Battery, Cord Replacing Super Tools… Instead… We got a Triplet instead of Twins… Milwaukee is entering an avenue reserved for Mining Companies, and Farm Equipment. Holy Crap!
Just breathe. These aren’t for the likes of us, these are Milwaukee dropping into a totally new industry than before. They’ll be back in our neighbourhood soon.
Lots to contemplate here. When I got the email from Milwaukee – I thought: wow some of these may be game changers if the actually perform. The breaker is interesting – but how it compares in weight and impact force to a pneumatic will be even more interesting. The current crop of AC-powered breakers fill a niche – but are still not the equivalent of the best pneumatics for big jobs.
That cutoff saw will also fill a niche – and the walk-behind cart looks good. Maybe not up to what a big Vermeer can do – but good for smaller jobs. How about modifying it (Milwaukee??) for use as a wall saw.
Are you and Tool Box Buzz affiliated. You both always have the same content the same day or close to it. They have a MX article too
The embargo was lifted today, and many industry magazines and blogs receive the same press releases at the same time.
No compressor? Mower? Why not the most common stuff everybody needs, even if it’s high price point, there’s enough suckers (like me) to justify those than a core drill or a sewer snake I’d think. Granted, they don’t have to study very hard on where to set pricing on industrial equipment because contractors can write off the cost, first of all, justify the cost by passing it on to the client (maybe up charge it a tick too!) but there are opportunities for volume, getting the tech costs paid off by selling Mx fuel packs to the masses for mowers and compressors, no?
In due time?
Compressor would go against the cordless jobsite mentality.
They don’t want to move too fast. They need to give people enough time to adapt the idea of the MX lineup before admitting to their (devoted followers) customers that they’ve given up on the High Output end of the M18 lineup. Yes, in favour of a new battery platform.
This is them quietly waving the M18 white flag in the face of DeWalt’s more powerful FV lineup.
Well, well, well…Could this be the battery that powers their upcoming lawn mower??? Not sure as a DIYer I will be needing the tools they power but a lawn mower… that might tempt me. The jobsite light could be useful as well. Generally I love the idea that Milwaukee is pushing into cordless tools at the truly next level.
I wouldn’t want a mower powered by that battery, at least a walk behind style. Leave that to the M18 batteries (though make it 2x M18), and put a couple on a zero-turn.
Why not? The MX batteries are 5.9lbs (3.0Ah) or 10.6lbs (6.0Ah) depending on which one, the weight doesn’t seem prohibitive on a self propelled mower and remember the smallest MX battery starts where the biggest Flexvolt stops so I would think the smaller battery would be more than enough to lead the industry right out of the gates. I don’t know but it seems feasible.
The small MX battery is 25% less watt hours than where “FlexVolt stops”.
Milwaukee: 20 cells x 3.0Ah x 3.6V = 216 watt-hours
Dewalt: 15 cells x 4.0Ah x 3.6V = 216 watt-hours
The compact MX Fuel battery has 33% more cells.
The highest capacity Dewalt FlexVolt battery has cells with 33% higher charge capacity.
Just buy Ego gear. MX is completely incompatible with M18, so why stick with/wait for Milwaukee when you can walk out and get a fantastic battery mower TODAY.
Are you that blinded by brand loyalty?
Some quick Google digging shows 55″ LCD TVs are in the 50-70 watt range. I’m really interested in what they’ve got coming out, but the one number they give (55″ LCD TV for over 7 hours), being generous, assuming a 90% efficient inverter (there are better ones out there than that), would be around 550ish W/hr for the battery, or a little over double the current crop of big ones that are out there.
I’m really hoping they put some real R&D into this as it could really open up some possibilities, but looking at that one spec, and the size of the battery pack (and the 14″ cut-off saw gives a length for the battery of just under 12″), for all the world it looks like a 40 or 50 cell battery pack, with probably extra cushioning and cooling, but still, I would guess 21700’s in either a 10s4p or 8s5p for a 40 cell pack, both coming in around 590ish W/hr.
Otherwise, it’s a sturdier FlexVolt battery system? Still good, and I’m glad they’re innovating in this area, but if this is all they’ve done, it’s good but not great.
Hoping it’s not just a bunch of hype.
Look at the size of the connection interface – MX Fuel batteries look to have a far stronger battery-tool interface compared to any cordless power tool battery system.
Looks to me like 20 cells in serial for the CP pack and 40 in 20S2P for the XC pack.
You’ve had a better look at it than I, so I’m hoping it’s something that can move the industry forward and not just a marketing ploy.
Yeah, clearly a bigger connection interface and I’m hoping for that for the type of tool (machine) they’re looking to target, the thermal management and vibration resistance is significantly stepped up from what’s out already.
The only item I see myself using is the roll-on power supply. The Dewalt that takes 4 batteries has the same rating of 1800/3600 watts. With four 9AH 60v batteries, the dewalt is 720 watt hours (so 24 minutes runtime at rated 1800 watt output).
I can’t find a watt/hour rating on the mx flex batteries, so I can’t calculate runtime, or more importantly the runtime per dollar for the system.
The difference between sinewave and modified sinewave matters for some specific electronic equipment, such as those that get their timing from the sinewave.
By my calculation, two MX Fuel XC batteries would give the Carry-On power supply 80 cells. To compare against Dewalt 20V Max battery calculations, the Carry-On could potentially max out at 4V x 80 x 3.0Ah = 960 watt-hours. Using 3.6V in calculations, the watt-hour rating might be 864 watt-hours. This is all unconfirmed.
Did your Milwaukee sources mention anything about using these batteries for future outdoor power equipment?
Such as lawnmower, leaf blower, etc.
They did not discuss the future MX Fuel roadmap. But, I’d say that anything is possible.
Do you really think “Riding Mower” at this point? ‘Cause I was thinking something a little more advanced… like an Automated Mower-Bot/Drone. To utterly destroy the current generation of those. That battery is HUGE… that means it would allow for actual weight and traction for a drone to use to its advantage.
Then there’s the long-life potential, and the fact that the chasis for this battery system has to be big enough to fit the larger, of the two released, batteries. A Chasis that big means it could fit an onboard computer that could run GPS, instead of guide wires. One powerful enough on the processing side to actually fit in some remote access, and WiFi connectivity and progress tracking. We’re not talking an Arduino-Class micro computer, we’re talking a full suite Linux setup, with custom software type of thing. Something equivalent to Milwaukee putting a Chrome Book or Android Tablet on the inside guts of the mower, and allow a company to run the drones remotely.
Think of a Groundskeeper company for a major stadium. Same number of staff, now they’re holding a tablet with a mowing plan on it, and running out to switch batteries if the drone suddenly runs out. Now, expand that to Government Landmarks… Buying even ONE, remarkably expensive, drone to mow the lawn covertly, while the crowds just hear a vaguely silent cutting sound… HUGE energy and government spending saved there. Maybe a whole LINE of drones for this, mulching, seeding, watering… Or the same drone with different attachments… This battery platform, as proved by the power supply system, has a necessary solid frame IDEAL for modular operation, and utility swapping.
Hell, you wanna talk INDUSTRIAL? GPR. Ground Penetrating Radar drones. Surveyor Drones. HazMat Drones. Search and Rescue ATV Drones. (Or is it ATDs? I dunno. NO ONE MAKES ONE! Milwaukee COULD with this platform!)
Or… Am I just talking crazy here?
>A Chasis that big means it could fit an onboard computer that could run GPS, instead of guide wires. One powerful enough on the processing side to actually fit in some remote access, and WiFi connectivity and progress tracking. We’re not talking an Arduino-Class micro computer, we’re talking a full suite Linux setup, with custom software type of thing. Something equivalent to Milwaukee putting a Chrome Book or Android Tablet on the inside guts of the mower, and allow a company to run the drones remotely.
Computer technology has progressed a lot faster than power tool and battery technology. The kind of computer you’re talking about can be put on a single board smaller than a credit card (after all, it’s what’s in a smartphone, and most of the volume in a smartphone is screen and battery).
GPS with the kind of accuracy to be primary guidance for a lawnmower is a little more problematic. “Normal” GPS will give you a position accurate within 10 feet more than 95% of the time, but that’s not great.
Things like GPS-guided farm equipment have navigational systems that are accurate to a few inches, but they don’t operate solely via GPS. They are much more sophisticated systems that use GPS in combination with correction signals from ground stations. This is very expensive.
Over the last couple of years, GPS satellites have started broadcasting a new, higher frequency signal in addition to the previously available signal. New dual-frequency GPS receivers will supposedly have accuracy around 1 foot, but they are not widely available yet (GPS chips supporting dual frequency GPS are beginning to appear in Android phones, but from what I can tell, the Android operating system will support dual frequency GPS but doesn’t yet).
I’m not sure even 1 foot accuracy is good enough, by itself.
It was just an example. I totally agree with you, Jimmy, but yesterday I was having a rough day, and I couldn’t get the right words out. If you don’t mind, I’d like to just agree with you, and add “More Complex and Accurate Systems” as a replacement for what I’ve said myself. With the chasis that big, they could put more electronics into the devices than just a simple credit-card sized computer, they could have entire dedicated smart-devices to control entire sub-systems of the tool. There would be enough room there to have dedicated computers for movement, separate from control of the motor, the operating tool attachment, AND the systems diagnostics and wireless connections software.
I was trying to get the point out that a “Riding Lawnmower” may well be something we could skip over with the MX battery system, and go straight for a full line of silent-running drone systems. Who knows? Maybe it will use WiFI location tech? WiFi Mesh systems are remarkably accurate for locating things. And if the, for the sake of ease, “Drones” are at least 1.5 Feet wide, or long, then the work surface attached to them would be well within the 1 foot accuracy range as an option. I’m not correcting you here, I’m trying to express a kind of… I don’t know… Excited Potential? For where a system like this could be utterly dominant in the industry.
And.. Yeah… I’m totally a DeWALT guy. But, I’m not stupid. I see when something has the potential for more applications. This won’t make me switch over to Milwaukee, but I can isolate this new lineup of tools, and examine the future use, and impact, they could have.
On the MX Milwaukee website one animation shows the make-up of one of the new MX batteries and it renders 38 cells. Now if they’re 21700 cells that would be a lot of power. Depending on how it is configured series and parallel arrangement there is plenty of opportunity for providing a ton of power.
Good catch, I looked again and I would guess 20 cells in the small pack and 40 in the large pack. So that would be nominal 72 volts.
I could 20 cells in the CP battery and 40 in the XC.
I do see one other rendering showing 38 cells, but I think there’s a small mistake there.
For everyone asking…. it’s a 72v system.
The biggest benefit here that I can see is much higher power potential than 120V. When productivity counts these could be the solution.
Why is 72v better than 108v (120 marketing volts)?
I mean compared to plug in 120V, which maxes at 2400 sustained watts if you are on a 20A circuit. 2-3X peak for very short duration.
40 3.0 21700 cells can sustain over 4000 watts and peak at double that for several seconds.
I know the article said that the battery voltage does not matter, but it looks likely to be 72 volt the base battery will likely have around 400 watt/hours of capacity and the big battery will have around 900 watt/hours. Excited to see what it really ends up being. Those batteries will likely cost $500 and $900
Their 10 cell M18 6.0 HO uses the same 3000 mAh cells, and it is “only” $149. The CP is double that, so $300 might be possible. The XC could be as low as $550.
72×6= 432 wh for the XC. Half that for the CP. 576 for the XC when they move to 4000 mAh cells. Not sure where 900 comes from aside from using 2 XC packs.
Wow. If you have a big company and a need for lots of these… you could also have an electric van using the same batteries to get to the job site!
There’s an untapped opportunity to cross-brand. Folks have been using dewalt and other manufacturer battery packs on ebikes for a while, but not purpose-made from the manufacturer. ebikes also have gigantic battery packs that output incredible wattage. I have a few store-bought and custom made shark and dolphin battery packs that are 52v nominal in 14s4p layout. Dewalt flexvolt are 15s1p (55.5v nominal) . The exploded view of these milwalkee battery packs shows 20s1p or 20s2p (both 74v nominal).
Dewalt flexvolt and milwalkee MX are close to the 52v and 72v nominal ebike standards. shark and dolphin form factor ebike batteries can deliver 5000 watts sustained with the cases/mounts all over the place for cheap (5000 watts is almost 7 HP) The milwalkee batteries are also shaped as-is to fit on a pannier on a ebike. It would be sweet to be able to swap batteries from bike to tool.
Where’s my milwalkee ebike?
This is almost exactly what I was thinking. The mx system means a mass produced set of standardized power cells capable of pushing a 5kw motor. Milwaukee doesn’t need to make an ebike. All they need to do is sell the mx system well and the rest will take care of itself. Already on Amazon and ebay, there are cheap power tool battery adapters for 18 and 12 volt systems that allow you to retrofit toys and whatnot to use those powercells. An mx fuel battery adapter is all you need to start running those batteries on small electric vehicles.
I wish the generator had a packout pattern on the top and bottom.
That’s a great idea! Man they missed an opportunity there!
I think the generator might be a little beyond the weight capacity of the packout system. Perhaps on top would be fine, but it would need a separate dolly for the MX Fuel system, and only have the packout system on top. Otherwise… breakage may occur.
But, I see that as a nice idea!
Hmmm, ,maybe it would be too heavy. But make the power source the bottom cart of a packout stack ? That would be cool. Who wouldn’t want wheels on that anyways ?
Most everyone is talking about the battery system and what’s next, but I’m looking at the design and innovation going into the tools and just thinking how much innovation is going into making the tools easier on the worker. I think that’s great! They look like Cadillacs to me compared to most rundown gas tools that I’ve used. So, I’m going to highlight some of the things I think are neat:
The water catch on the drum snake is a necessity and the motorized stair crawler back is awesome. That technology needs to move into a powered appliance dolly and other cart designs.
The ability for both the core driller and the cutoff saw to be attached securely to a cart/rail system is fantastic! That means they have designed tools that are strong enough to handle the additional leverage, that a typical cart/rail will add to the tool, without bogging it down. Fantastic!
I have the DeWalt Powerstation and I use my little FC-90 flux core welder to weld mild steel up to 3/16. It’s amazing to carry both of them in my hands to wherever I need them and do some simple welding. Their new battery generator will not only do that, but undoubtedly open up the door for them to make small/compact battery powered DC flux core welders!
I mainly have DeWalt with a few Milwaukee tools, but this is the biggest news since Flexvolt and it will be cool to see what they’re capable of!
Hey Stuart, can we all sign a petition to ask Milwaukee to send out some of the tools for you to test? Would it make a difference? You’re one of the best, so it’d be a shame for them to gloss over you just because you might be in a more “prosumer” category.
Again, thanks for the more in-depth coverage.
The only tool/equipment here that I’d be able to test and evaluate with complete competence is the power supply. I might be able to find local testers to work with me on the other tools, but given the value of these tools that would be too tall of a risk.
Simply put, this type of equipment is beyond my comfort zone and experience. Frankly, assuming I am invited and can make it, I’d be happy to some hands-on time at the next NPS event.
I am confident enough of my understanding, insights, and research to share details and information about the tools, but hands-on opinions? How can I review such equipment if I’ve never used the gas engine equivalents?
Yes, your comfort in giving an assessment of the tools is definitely relevant, however, there is something to be said for reviews from unskilled workers. They give a different point of view from the realm of a new employee and how easily it will be for them to use the tool and make use of the tool.
I wouldn’t write yourself off, but yes, maybe not test the drain snake or concrete corer. ?
I think your integrity and fairness would be important to Milwaukee as well.
The specs on the jackhammer are impressive compared to the widely used Bosch 120v versions. https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/breaker-hammers-23519-c/
All are about 63 lbs, but the MX has 50 ft lbs impact vs 43 (Bosch Turbo) vs 35 (Bosch Brute), and 1300 BPM vs 1000 (both Bosch models).
The two Bosch models sell for about $1500-1800, so if Milwaukee can stay under $2000 with a couple batteries, they’ll sell heaps of these.
That is impressive. We were using 60lb class pneumatics rated at 60 to 65 Joules for pavement breaking – so 50 ft. lbs = 67 joules should do the trick. It will not replace a 90lb class breaker (our Sullair put out something like 155 Joules) or a hoe ram (10,000 Joules) but it should sell well if it performs as advertised.
Now we know why dewalt bailed on 40v large packs.
They will do this mx thing too… my guess they will do 14 In saw and some other hand tools…but equipment wise they will do a ride on lawn mower snowblower .
May make sense for these huge batteries that will cost min 1000… to also have a USB and 120v outlet.
They would be more versatile for jobs and recreation.
A 120V outlet would require power conversion, meaning higher cost, complexity, and size, and so I don’t think it would be feasible.
A USB charging port? I don’t see that happening either. “Add more features for the sake of it” has ruined some other brands’ product designs in the past. If Milwaukee thinks this is something users want, they might come out with a slide-on adapter, but I’d be willing to bet that they won’t.
Adding holes into the battery would decrease it’s IP rating as well as add cost and bulk. Not to mention the companies that would be buying this don’t want their employees using their phones while working.
If this was a small time contractor tool line or prosumer line then a USB port would make sense.
You could absolutely make a little “hat” that slips onto the top of one of these batteries and gives you a dozen USB ports, maybe a built-in lamp, and some organizer slots so you can stand up your dozen phones and tablets while they charge.
It’s not like DC-DC converters are hard. I’d love one that also brings out a few dozen amps at 12V so I can use it to jumpstart cars.
This is incredible. That pace at which Milwaukee seems to be innovating is astounding. I’m very happy with how my Bosch tools have worked for me- but I wish I had bought into the M18 platform.
I forgot to mention that I’m very curious about pricing. This stuff seems like it must cost a fortune. I also imagine that the batteries are even pricier for them to power this equipment long enough to make it worth the investment.
I think tool guyed should investigate further Into the voltage. Because Milwaukee always claimed compatibility with m18 v and with M18 HO tools.
But it’s my experience that the HO line was a complete unplanned reaction to flexvolt. Milwaukee harped on that voltage does not matter… in my experience with HO tools… the grinders can not handle the heat when grinding and cutting… my 12 amph battery will begin to trip out while still having 2 bars left… both on my 9 In and 5 in or 4.5 grinder . My 60v flex out perfoms way better on 9 amph.
I believe this is also why this mx line is out now.
Yep, you nailed it. 18v can only go so far and Milwaukee is basically dumping further HO development in their 18v lineup. They won’t do the common tools like table saws and miter saws for a little while because their loyal fan base just “invested” in their current models and piles of 12.0 HO batteries.
Why is no one calling Milwaukee out on this? All the “reviews” of this MX line read pretty much the same; like a re-print of Milwaukee’s own marketing material. Sad.
You’re making some big assumptions.
I don’t think Milwaukee will have an MX Fuel miter saw. They have an M18 12″ model on the way. Why would they design an MX Fuel model that’s larger, heavier, and pricier?
Personally, I think that IF they do need more power for portable power tools, they’ll go with a 1 or 2 battery system. 1 battery for light/medium, tasks, 2 for optimal power and runtime. That will better enable something like a 10″ table saw, and I’d be willing to bet such a tool would gave an AC adapter as well for corded/plug-in use.
And now we wait for a welder…
That’s pretty badass
I’m a little surprised that the power supply is designed for only two batteries. The Ego version has been available for 6 months and already exceeds the watt hour capacity of this unreleased MX.
For $1700, the Ego gives you 4×5.0 amp hour batteries, for 1120 watt hours. With two XC batteries, this new Milwaukee version will supply about 960 watt hours. Both brands feature pure sine waves and similar running watts.
With the 10.0 amp hour batteries, the Ego will offer 2240 watt hours! I know that Milwaukee’s engineers are a helluva lot smarter than me, but this leaves me puzzled.
I’ll just say it… “At Launch”… Every battery system tool companies have ever launched have had only a couple battery sizes available at launch, and added more over time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a Quad is coming in a few years. Double the double-sized battery. Or an adapter to load on three of the single-sized batteries in the slot of one. Key words here “Wouldn’t surprise me”… The Single and Double seem to be the “At Launch” batteries, that’s all. The industry they’re breaking into may have some kickback at first, so it’s wise to not bet the ENTIRE farm over the new system, at least not at launch.
Fair point. But if nearly all the tools at launch use the xc battery, why even start with a 20 cell cp battery? Why not make the smallest pack 25 or 30 cells? My guess is that they want some of the batteries small enough to eventually supplement the higher power m18 tools, like the leaf blower, miter saws, table saw, etc. Probably holding off on those for now since profit margins are lower than the light industrial stuff, and they don’t want to admit that m18 has reached its limit.
Okay, I will admit right now that I’m a DeWALT guy, and I am ignorant of the Milwaukee model lines for the most part. I know the NAMES M12, M18, Fuel, and Red Lithium… but I don’t know the models of any of their tools. So, please forgive me if I don’t quite understand what you’ve said.
Why do people keep looking at the MX Fuel line as being, even remotely, related to M18? Look at the form factor, the sheer size of the tools, and the application. If Dodge made a Mo-Ped/E-Bike… Would you compare them to a Viper? A Ram 1500? Or would you look OUTSIDE that industry, to the Vespa, or even a Harley or Indian Motorcycle?
These MX Fuel tools and batteries are not even for the same industry as the rest of the Milwaukee tool lineup. I can definitely see where they’ve completely departed from Contractor/Tradesman tools here, and taken on the glass ceiling where those tools end, and Industrial Heavy Machinery begin. Hence “Light Industrial” designation.
I don’t see Milwaukee putting up a “Bankrupt” notice anywhere, so they are still doing just fine. What makes everyone stick so hard to holding the regular Power Tool lineup against this new class? I’m not sure I understand what would really STOP them, and I mean dead in their tracks, from continuing along the lines of their OWN FlexVOLT style innovation… More powerful, and multi-battery, tools that use compatible M18 or M12 systems as well as the new ones. I have a lot of trouble picturing the MX Fuel single side battery on a Milwaukee Miter Saw, Table Saw, or other heavy contract tool. Is that what everyone is seeing here? An extension of the M18 family, the way FlexVOLT extended the 20 Volt Family to a 60 Volt family?
I don’t understand where those connections would be equated. I’m seeing Coring Drills, Extreme Generators, and a fully-enclosed Jackhammer solution… I’m not seeing an SDS Drill, Power Bank, or Hammerdrill here… These are scaled up beyond the M18 line, and outside the Consumer level market. So… In essence… or Metaphorically anyways… This is Vespa coming out with a Chopper, instead of a Scooter. This is Dodge building a Cargo Container Ship. Chevy building the Military a Gunship or the Navy a Carrier. The products they sold in the past aren’t at risk because of these ones. They’re in a class of their own.
Yeah, Teams Red and Yellow do some pretty upsetting things with their product lines, and they hurt a lot of us loyal consumers when they do. But, and I honestly don’t mean to sound snarky, I am saying this as much for clarification and understanding as possible… Not everything these companies do are about OUR particular place in their demographics.
SBD makes Bostitch, Craftsman, and Proto… And they’re all for people that AREN’T me. Bostitch is for people working on nailing and stapling things for days on end, Craftsman is a known Home brand, and Proto is designed for Automotive and Heavy Machinery Maintenance… I’m a DIYer and Inventor… I’m NONE of those things, so how can a release from ANY of those brands threaten my DeWALT use? Same goes here… How does this Light Industrial set of tools threaten the Milwaukee lineup everyone they’ve sold to already uses? It doesn’t make sense to compare them. It’s not even Apples versus Oranges… it’s more like Apples versus Wildebeast.
The first thing I thought when I saw these tools was how perfect they would be for technical rescue (collapsed structures) and other disaster response. Stuart, if you wanted to arrange some tests of these, contact your local fire department’s tech rescue team and let them train on them. I’ve been at some tech rescue trainings where core drills, cut off saws, breakers etc. were used and abused. I’d be really interested to see how these stack up.
I’ve been waiting awhile for a lawnmower, I wonder if it will be on this platform? may now consider other brands if I have to switch to a new battery, heard good things about Ego but wanted to stay with one battery. I’m in need of a mower soon , my 7 year old Toro gasser is falling apart but I’ve been holding out for the Milwaukee.
I know everyone I’d caught up in the comparisons, but am I the only one thinking that 14′ of cutting capacity on a slab isnt worth it? I cant think of a single time that I’ve been on a commercial job and cut that small of an amount. You’d need multiple batteries, which means going back to a charger to swap them. At that point, just run a cord.
Its definitely something to thing about. I can see some wanting it in remote locations. Charge time is quick too.
I was thinking the same thing. Cutting concrete just takes a lot of watt-hours. The only thing beneficial is that this may be significantly more powerful than a 120V concrete saw, so faster cutting for places where you can’t use a gas saw.
Now for cutting pipe, this could be more like a day’s work.
As an enthusiast and DIYer I know these tools aren’t designed for me, but I would still give the power supply a look if the price wasn’t prohibitive ($2,000+). Mainly what I would like to see is a lawn mower and more powerful OPE like a backpack blower. I have a large city lot with tons of live oaks and it turns into a mess really quickly. If they support OPE in this “Light Equipment” line I’d be more than willing to upgrade from my aging Kobalt 80V system.
Prices are available via Toolnut.com as of today 11/1
The prices are about what I would expect. The batteries are expensive for their capacities compared to what is available (mostly in the OPE market, EGO ect). They get to pull the battery price up because they are going onto legitimately expensive tools.
The current pricing makes a pivot towards the OPE market a bit more difficult. They would likely need to aim for the pro market similar to the EGO tethered equipment. I do hope they go there, I want a mower with really good cut quality.
Dewalt can certainly compete in this space with a 2x flexvolt. I think they might need a toughened version of the battery with a stronger mount for something like the breaker. The MX looks to have a very nice mount. A lot of development went into this equipment, and some of it is a definitely outside the dewalt comfort zone.
You can see in the generator what they plan for future packs in terms of size. The initial batteries seem pretty conservative actually.
Meh… Not to be Debbie Downer, but this tool line doesn’t really excite me, at all. For one thing being, that I’m pretty sure that these tools will be out of my price range and the Utility that I work for, would rather buy gas powered equipment/corded, rather than buy into another battery platform (Management wants to stick with one battery brand/voltage platform).
I’m sure I’m not the only one whose been waiting on Milwaukee to come out with a M18, 4-Battery generator, similar to DeWalt’s, but in a Packout Tool box. Currently, I don’t see the value in this battery platform. I also wonder about this new battery platforms staying power. As battery technology advances, will the MX line suffer the same fate as Milwaukee’s 28 volt, DeWalt’s 36 or 40 volt platforms? Mind you, all those platforms appealed to professionals too. Time will tell
The more I’ve thought about it the more I agree with you. This line is analogous to DeWalt’s recent “failed” 40v OPE line in more than one way. It is aimed at a much more focused customer base, which primarily relies on proven gas technology. It also uses a new battery system that offers zero cross/backwards compatibility (which is ironic considering how fanboys hated on DeWalt’s 40v for that very reason), and the cost benefits are really unproven.
Most comments have been on the same two lines of thought. “What’s the competition going to do?” and “Will this line move into OPE?” I just want to know if its gonna last or flame out. While it is a better time for battery equipment, I just don’t know if the world is ready yet. As you said, time will tell.
Offtopic but I just got an email from Toolnut that has some of these listed for sale price wise. But what was interesting was when I clicked on the battery price in the email it went to a wrong link with something as interesting.
Milwaukee 2505-22 M12 FUEL Brushless Installation 4-In-1 Drill / Driver 2.0Ah Kit
Weren’t people wondering if these were ever going to be released in the US? Well apparently they are now.
The 14-inch cutoff saw will be a game changer for border-wall breachers. They’re already cutting through Trump’s new wall with $100 recips and Diablo blades: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/smugglers-are-sawing-through-new-sections-of-trumps-border-wall/2019/11/01/25bf8ce0-fa72-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html
The saw may somewhat compete with high frequency saws. Since I think MX will have much more power than 120V corded, your next option for fume-free fast cutting is something like a Husqvarna K6500 paired with a PP 65 on a 240V power source. This is a $9,000 combo and requires 240V power not always available on site, and works best with 480V 3-phase which is even harder to find.
This is a game-changer, in my opinion anyway. The only thing im worried about is theifetime expectancy of the power cells inside those immense battery packs. These tools are meant for heavy duty, industrial applications, there is a reason why others use either wall outlets or gas, batteries, although reliable when they’re new, get burned out relatively quickly when used constantly, especially under heavy loads… It will be tether interesting to see how Milwaukee is prepared to battle such issues. But, in any case, this isn’t something any other company had ever done and, for that alone, big KUDOS to Milwaukee!
Although I have been impressed with Milwaukee’s pushing of the 18v platform to its limits, I am both thrilled and relieved that they finally got a market sustainable high voltage system out. It looks to me like this is at the voltage/size/weight sweet spot for serious OPE and heavy man-portable equipment. If I were mtd or honda, i’d be in a rush to license this format for commercial grade ope sales.
These cells should find their way into lawn maintenance, ebikes/small vehicles, welding, trolling motor/ marine applications, SPL competition car audio, and anything else served by lead acid bank / motor combos and 30-200cc gas motors.
Impressive I don’t know that contstruction sites have been wanting some of those pieces of equipment but they look nice.
I already told a plumber friend about the drain sweep – I see him buying one of those.
That battery might not use Cell tech either. I could be prizmatic to increase power density and cooling capacity. I know it would be a departure of the norm but it would be interesting. With all the vibration and the like it might also be AUTO LIPO cell tech which is a different sort of cell. incased in gel – often squarish, etc. will be interesting.
I like their power unit too. would like to see SBD come to the table now but it might be 5 years. OH and rough order of magnitude since there are DOT requirements for shipping LIthium batteries I bet the voltage isn’t over 68 or so. Without looking it up on hand I believe the upper limit is 74VDc for normal shipping of a lithium battery pack Otherwise they have to be shipped in safing containers. Tesla and others do this with their batteries they live on a special pallet with seals and extra gel bath. I could see milwaukee wanting to stay away from those limits.
Just FYI for Canadians, MX Fuel stuff is now available for pre-order from KMS tools (and I assume BC tools and maybe IHL will also have it now or soon).
This stuff isn’t cheap, but I assume it’s not out of the question for large construction operations. Especially if prices are considered offset by reducing fatigue, maintenance or workplace injuries etc.
I was surprised that the core drill with stand kit is the most expensive option – and that the light is $4g’s. I expect these prices definitely put all of the MX Fuel stuff outside of any reasonable consumer’s budget even if there is a piece that could be useful in that setting (I’m assuming only the generator or light might have been of interest).
No price for the generator yet, but here’s what was listed:
Compact battery pack: $499.99
XC batter pack: $799.99
Cut-Off Saw Kit: $2,399.99
Saw Cart: $1,299.99
Core Drill kit: $3,299.99
Core drill kit with stand: $4,999.99
Breaker kit: $2,999.99
Rocket tower light: $3,999.99
Sewer Drum kit with powertreadz: $4,499.99
Sewer kit sans treadz: $3,799.99
Core Drill Stand: $1799.99
Stuart, did you ever learn more about the specs on the new Milwaukee MX Fuel system, such as the the operating voltage and cells used?
Scott W Widmann
Why have a DC battery running AC outlets converting back to my AC to DC M18 and M12 chargers?
And why do I have to use those plugs for my chargers, I want to charge my M18 and M12 batteries while something else is using those plugs.
Also – many comparable products have USB plugs as well as the ability to charge from solar. Why not include these features and make this a proper “Solar Generator” of which there are close to 100 options to choose from at a much lower price.
These options would cost less than $50 to implement and would make this generator so much more useful.
Love my Milwaukee tools, but I’m going to stick with another AC/DC alternator and battery supply option until some of these other features get wrapped in.
And why is this alternator so big? There are products with similar specs at 1/4 the size.
Scott W Widmann
The generator needs the features that are included in other solar generators.