Milwaukee tool will be updating their tape measure marketing over the next few months, adopting the “reach” spec that Stanley Black & Decker quietly introduced at the start of the 2019 holiday shopping season.
I can understand why SBD adopted the new metric for Stanley and Dewalt tape measures, or at least why they say they created the new marketing term, but what it comes down to is that a key marketing spec was instantly increased for all of their tape measures. 7 feet of standout became 10 feet of reach. Tapes with 11 feet of standout were now being advertised as having 14 feet of reach.
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Stanley Black & Decker didn’t waste any time updating their packaging or in-store displays.
Whether you trust in SBD’s explanation for how all Stanley, FatMax, and Dewalt tape measures will now be advertised, the change is permanent and impactful.
At Home Depot, this Stanley FatMax 30′ tape measure ($25) is advertised as having 14 feet of reach.
This Dewalt 30′ tape measure ($20) is advertised as having 13 feet of reach.
Finally, this Milwaukee 30′ tape measure is advertised as having 12 feet of standout.
13 feet and 14 feet of reach are NOT bigger and better than 12 feet of standout, but will shoppers understand what these terms mean?
Even today, I’ve seen and continue to hear from people that are still confused about 20V Max. It has been years, and not everyone is informed about 20V Max and 18V being the same voltages when it comes with Li-ion battery packs.
How long might it be before Reach vs. Standout are widely understood and interpreted as two different tape measure specs?
“Reach” does make sense, and Milwaukee’s graphic for highlighting it makes things clear. Standout is the point where a tape measure blade will buckle under its weight at maximum extension, and reach is the added 3 feet of average pro user arm length to reflect the distance between point of max standout and the front of the tape measure. Or, something like that – the graphic really says it all.
Milwaukee commented about the matter:
In the next few months, you might start to notice that our tape measures no longer claim “standout.” While there will be no physical changes to the tapes themselves, we are updating our tape measure messaging to now claim “reach,” similar to competitors in the category, so that users can have a more “apples to apples” shopping experience.
It makes perfect sense for Milwaukee to adapt the new marketing spec/terminology.
Seeing the rows and rows of Stanley and Dewalt tape measures with “Reach” advertising at the local Home Depot, and rows of Milwaukee tape measures with “Standout,” made Milwaukee’s switch-over an inevitability.
This isn’t really a big deal at all, for Milwaukee shifting from standout to reach, or at least it’s far less impactful than Stanley Black & Decker quietly changing over to the new 3-feet-higher metric just a few of months ago. It’s a number on a package, product page, or shelf at the store, and it’s a way to restore fair competition.
I am not a law professional, but it seemed to me that there were no grounds for a legal challenge (such as with an anti-competitive complaint), and so the only way to “even the playing field” would be to adopt “reach” as the de facto standard over “standout.” If the competition puts on stilts to make themselves appear 3 feet taller, you do the same.
Personally, I can never quite achieve max standout on any tape measure, but maybe that’s me. To avoid user confusion or disappointment, brands that advertise “reach” are going to have to do a good job of illustrating what that means, but I’m sure their graphic artists can come up with a clear diagram to add to product packaging or websites.
Some of you expressed indifference towards both standout and reach specs, saying that it doesn’t factor into your tape measure shopping or comparison efforts. But do you think that Stanley Black & Decker would have introduced the new metric, and Milwaukee adapting to that change, if it wouldn’t potentially impact sales?
Literally every single Stanley, FatMax, and Dewalt tape measure I found at Home Depot was sporting newly updated packaging. The same seemed to be true with Stanley and Craftsman tapes at Lowe’s. How much money did that cost Stanley Black & Decker?
With Milwaukee adopting the new unofficial standard, the only question now is whether other brands, such as Lufkin, will follow the trend.
Tator
Oh no, now Milwaukee will adopt uwo!!!
Thom
If they didbis a a secondary data point It would be great… IE 500 inch lbs/600 UWO
andy
I do wish they’d adopt UWO . Also, Thom, torque can’t be converted to UWO.
Thom
Not a conversion… As a secondary data point
Jim Felt
“Personally, I can never quite achieve max standout on any tape measure, but maybe that’s me. “
My experience as well. Hmmm.
Paul
Yeah are those high wind stand out numbers ? How bout if the tape is wetter and heavier – still work ? NO
How about 2 large Starbucks with the caffeine jitters ?
John
To me its simple. Milwaukee had a longer stand out with their new tape, Stanley reacted by changing the term to reach so they could meet or beat them. Milwaukee said “oh no you didn’t” and changed to reach to be back on top
Thoughts?
Tom
All I know is my Milwaukee Wide Blade didn’t retract half the time I used it. You can have all the standout in the world, but if the tape doesn’t retract it’s wasting my time and making me LESS productive. Back to Fatmax for me.
Finn
Try empire tapes seem to last a long time for me better than milwaukee and luftkin
Dan
Exact same problem with my Milwaukee tape too! I like the readability of the Milwaukee but hate having to use both hands to get tape to retract
Robert Moses Grubb
I had that problem with FatMax several years ago. they quit retracting. I love Milwaukee tapes now. I only ever need 16′ I have 3 different types. They all lock and retract nicely
Koko The Talking Ape
Maybe next they’ll adopt a new measure, “standup,” or how far up you can reach with your hand held above your head. So a tape with 12′ standout will have a 20′ “standup.” Impressive!
Tim E.
If you balance it nicely I bet I can get more than 12’ of “standout” going straight up… 25’ tape measure means 25’ of vertical standout, so 33’ of standup by your measure lol.
ca
Then the next company will have “standup MAX” … how far you can reach with the tape when standing on a 10 foot ladder
KEVIN KLINGNER
Are you suggesting there are very big giants out there that need this stuff? sic! Tongue in cheek to my knowledge l have never seen this rubbish description used here in australia. 9′ or 30′ or whatever that is all we ever see on them and anything else is just needless hogwash and BS.!!!!!! That some brain retarded smarty in marketing and design comes up with from time to time thinking everyone else are dumbies and hicks from the boon docks and bush who are inbred and have no education or central intelligence. Lol
Champs
As useless/misleading as any of these metrics are, at least it’s apples-to-apples again.
As far as 20V Max goes, I was not into building when it came about but have always understood it in the sense of “this one goes to eleven” and avoiding confusion with old NiCd systems.
Jeremiah McKenna
Maybe Milwaukee should beat them at their own game and put BOTH standout and reach measurements on their packaging.
But again, none of those numbers have EVER gone into my decision to buy a tape measure. What does? The readout numbers, readability, as well as price. Normally I buy the less expensive tape, because they get destroyed one way or another, and need to be replaced more often than most other motion tools, or all tools for that matter. If one brand would come up with an engineers scale with a trap door to allow dirt to be removed, that would be nice as well, since that is one if the main reasons the engineers tape (heck all of them) get thrown away.
Jeff Epstein
We had a different problem at my sites. We were all trying different tapes and yelling measurements to be cut and having 1/16″ problems. We settled on fatmax and left it at that.
Ryan
I install floors and I used to go through tapes like mad now this is not to say I like the STANLEY BRAND but I’ve been using the same STANLEY FAT MAX 25ft tape for just over a year and other then the hold button is a little hard to slide down its still a one other then beat to crap.
So take it for what it’s worth cheers.
S.Kelly
Metrics are only “useless” to americans who refuse (or are too dumb) to use them. Like your stupid Fahrenheit scale and “useless” phillips screws. Noticed your money is still metric.
Stuart
I hate to tell you, but he said metrics not metric system.
Metrics: a method of measuring something, or the results obtained from this.
Fahrenheit actually offers superior resolution for measuring or setting environmental temperatures. “Money” is NOT metric in any way, shape, or form, neither are any currencies.
Thom
3 words for you.. British Standard Whitworth.
Thom
Beside the fact that inches /feet/miles and good old Fahrenheit was good enough to put men on the moon and rovers on Mars bail Europe out of 2 world wars and win the most Olympic gold medals…it seems to be working fime for us.
B0R1K
nope, NASA and Military use metric system … And Olympics competitions are all in the Metric system as well…
Bonson
Standout: passively ignored
Reach: actively ignored
Jeremiah McKenna
My thoughts exactly.
HandyDan
The difference between the standout/reach situation and the 18v/20v situation is Stanley Black & Decker didn’t put a patent on the term ‘reach’ and then charge everybody to use it like Milwaukee did with the 18v battery system.
Benjamen
Last time I checked you couldn’t patent a name. Trademark would be more appropriate.
HandyDan
You must be a blast at parties….
Steve
It has nothing to do with patents, plenty of other brands still use 18V. DeWalt had 18V tools previously. They launched the 20V MAX line in… 2012? Mainly as a marketing gimmick. It is 20V fresh off the charger but as soon as it is used it drops to 18V. Hence 20V “max”
They call it 18V in Europe still because laws there force them to use the operating voltage, I believe.
Benjamen
So now we are back to square zero, but we have an even more obfuscated standard. Good job Dewalt, I hope your one time 2019 holiday profits from confusing consumers was worth it.
At least standout was something that could be measured somewhat objectively. Reach adds another imprecise human variable. A person with a shorter arm span will get different results than a person with a longer arm span.
I’m disappointed that Milwaukee adopted this, but I can understand their motives: they care more about selling tools than being a standard bearer. You may not think this is a big deal, but small steps like this all add together and we are all worse off because of it.
I wonder if this change is worldwide. Is it happening in countries with actual consumer protections like Australia?
Tom
I don’t think there has ever been an objective industry-wide standard for standout. Milwaukee’s magnetic tape measure doesn’t get 12′ of standout (the most I ever got was 10′). Their new Stud tape breaks at 11′, not 14′. But some of their other standout claims like the Wide Blade and Compact Wide Blade are dead on.
I’ve never gotten Lufkin’s Shockforce to go out more than 12′ and change, not the 14′ they claim. However, their other tapes seem to be marked accurately.
The original Fatmax was dead on at 11′, but the new round one doesn’t get anywhere near 13′.
My point is that most manufacturers can’t even seem to use a consistent standard across their own product lines. So if they can’t even use the same standard across all of their own products it seems unlikely that any kind of consistent industry standard exists.
Zack
For standout (or now “reach”), is it supposed to be a horizontal span? The more vertical you hold the tape, the further you can reach before it buckles.
Corey Moore
100% positive it was worth it for them (SBD more likely made that call) lol And the closest thing I’ve been aware of as a standard for tape standout claims, is that they’re all bs. 90% of professional use of max standout is guys screwing around, talking crap, and measuring the air with different colors of severely arching tapes. It was a marketing shtick to bump sales, and it’s been met with more marketing that’s leveled it back out. The world needs less marketing.
Nathan Corson
I have tried the Milwaukee tape measures and can’t get more than 8ft stand out from mine. I will stick with the tried and true Fat Max
Brent
I am a total milwaukee tool guy, the only thing missing from my shop on wheels is the Milwaukee sticker.
That said, fat max is the leading tape measure in my trailer.
I have a few backup Milwaukee tapes but they are damn near new.
Jeremiah McKenna
Maybe they need a national standard, like truck manufacturers have to adhere to now with their towing and hauling claims, the SAE J2809. Unless metrology already has one.
Frank D
Standout I took as easily duplicated horizontal unsupported reach at about hip height before the tape collapsed.
Reach ?!
Seriously
… horizontal? vertical? supported how?
Just like the ladders now … Made that mistake when that trend started. Listed as 14 ft ladder, big bold lettering 14 ft on the sticker but read the fine print … I needed an extra ladder to dedicate to getting on top of a particular flat roof. Ordered online. Too short to get up and on a 10ft roof safely !?!?!
Ramone
I’ve never really thought much about standout, but I would also take it to mean horizontal reach. A quick google search showed a few videos from the tool companies and other ratings sites, and they all used an angle — the review site used 15 degree and the manufacturer video looked like 45 degrees. I’m guessing they’ll reach longer the closer you get to vertical, so I guess if they really want to exaggerate they could just fully extend at completely vertical. Look — ours goes to 25 feet! (unless it’s windy)
Jeremiah McKenna
By a show if hands… I mean replies, how many of us actually care about standout? How many if us will get as close to point A and then walk towards point B and measure, or get a helper for a second or two to make long measurements?
If you think about it it is typically unsafe to be reaching way out on a high perch(rafter, top plate, edge of scaffold etc.) instead of doing it either with a helped or a laser measuring device.
Jeremiah McKenna
Show of hands, not if hands.
Tom D
The only times I ever use standout or reach is playing with the tape measures at Home Depot.
ca
I frequently extend tape measures to reach places, either because they are high or because it’s faster than walking there. I don’t, however, buy tape measures by their advertised standout or reach.
Stp
I field measure for a living.
I use a Fatmax. Have tried the Milwaukee and it works too. I am 6-6″ I have reached 18-20′ to measure hights of building and what not with a Fatmax. The stand out is 11-12 feet. The only problem with Milwaukee is the belt clip. It take two hands to get or on the belt. Or right next to the belt loop. Fatmax slides right on every time. The Milwaukee blade is easier to read but if I need two hand or 3 tries to put it on the belt, then it’s not for me. Anyone else have that problem?
DRT
Standout is very important to me. That is what led me to the Fatmax tapes in the first place.
Corey Moore
I know there’s folks who’ll need the most standout they can get, but it’s usefulness for the large group of the others, amounts to saving a step or three and/or some leaning. Nobody has ever been impressed or switched brands on account of the kid we’ve all seen struggle for a full minute to unsuccessfully fishing-pole 10′ of tape onto something 6′ away from him.
Paul J. Ste. Marie
What a ridiculous bit of marketing BS. What’s stopping someone from claiming a “super-reach” of 18′ for a 12′ stickout based on a full arms span if added distance, or an “ultra-reach” of 19′ based on an NBA player holding it?
This is just like the old BS “horsepower” numbers on compressors that were 2-3x the actual value. Those disappeared after a class-action lawsuit to force the manufacturers to pay up. Something similar should happen here.
Hayden Mason
I buy Milwaukee because of the measurements on both sides of the tape, being able to reach a screw on the ceiling 8 feet away and hook onto it with any side of the tape end.
Hayden Mason
These are the two most important features for me when doing a lighting layout
Alan
I honestly could care less about standout let alone reach. My Milwaukee tapes have the finger grab which I like way more then the auto lock. Also, I haven’t checked recently but everytime I’ve bought one they ate the only ones with scales on both sides.
Bud Light
Tape measure people unite! We are suffering because of these issues. I call for a three man woman march and ribbons and protest. I’ll set up a go fund me and web site and twipper page to stop this trajidestidee.
S.Kelly
I used to worship DeWalt tools, but when they started making them cheap, I stopped buying anything with a DeWalt name on it. Milwaukee still makes a better tool, and they can call it whatever they want.
Crystian
That is if the wind is not blowing hard like is on most of the kids sides. I personally like Milwaukee tapes case the magnetic on the tip!!!
Matt
I rarely ever use more than 8ft of “standout” so I dont care about any more than that.
I just wish they would stop making all the tape measures for lefties. Can you put the belt hook on the other side for once?
Frank D
Lefties?
Yet with all the numbering upside down if you use it left handed …
Darrin
Milwaukee tools are the best tools out there. I have bought every brand from the cheapest to the most expensive and Milwaukee is the only brand I have not had to take back. They are KING !!!
Chris pultz
how about a tape measure that puts the diamond mark on both sides of the tape measure.
Stevp
Am I the only one, or do others have a hard time with the wire belt clip of the Milwaukee hooking on to their belt. It takes 2 hands or placing right next to a belt loop. Fatmax sheet metal clips always slides on. Besides that they both have nice features. My first choice is the max due to the belt clip. Fyi I do field measuring every day. Stand out is very important. Reach is secondary.
Ed
If you are using it on the moon standout and reach will even be more.
Ray
I propose a new standard for measure tape. The “Lie down” length. Just put the tape on the ground and pull it all the way out until it starts to crawl back. That could be a determining factor on measuring tapes.
Mosh
I would like to see reach without buckling (arching) excellent for post sheetrock spots placement….