There are tons of tool references in movies and TV shows. Sometimes they’re recognizable, other times they’re somewhat generic. In science fiction, some tools might be repurposes and used as futuristic props.
In The Mitchells vs the Machines, now on Netflix, they specifically reference Robertson (square) head screwdrivers, specifically a #3 size. This is quite possibly the oddest tool reference I’ve come across yet.
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Everyone’s got a Robertson number 3 non-slip screwdriver! The dad has one…
And the mom’s got one too. Does that look like a PB Swiss Swissgrip handle pattern to you?
The daughter got one as a sweet 16 gift.
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The son’s screwdriver was left under his pillow by the tooth fairy.
I figure that a good 80% (at least) of the people watching this are thinking “Robertson what?” What am I thinking? Why are they using a number 3 – wouldn’t a number 2 be more common?
The screwdrivers makes additional appearances later in the movie. I’m sorry if this is a spoiler it was just too amusing not to share.
You know, this is probably why John Connor had such a hard time in the Terminator universe – he only carried a Phillips screwdriver.
If I need a new Robertson number 2 (or 3) screwdriver, I’d go with these brands:
Channellock #2 via Amazon
Wera #2 via Amazon – I own this one, it’s decent
Klein #2 via Amazon
I was probably more amused by this than I should have been, but that’s okay. You can catch The Mitchells vs the Machines on Netflix (at least in the USA).
Norm Huizenga
“I The Mitchells vs the Machines, not on Netflix, they specifically reference Robertson (square) head screwdrivers, specifically a #3 size. ”
Shouldn’t this read:
In The Mitchells vs the Machines, now on Netflix, they specifically reference Robertson (square) head screwdrivers, specifically a #3 size.
IN and NOW not I and NOT
Stuart
Thanks! *fixed*
Jared
So is it on Netflix?
The article still says “not on Netflix”. Just FYI, because I was confused after this comment.
Stuart
Thanks! *fixed*
*facepalm*
It hit Netflix a few days ago.
Bruce
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a #3 in the wild. I’m going to have to watch this.
Jim Felt
No one south of the Great White North border has. #2 and occasionally #1. But in the decades I’ve used these drivers I don’t believe I recall ever using my Wera, Klein or even Craftsmen number 3s. Ever.
Anyone?
John Palka
I use them often and I’m from Chicago. I’m a commercial furniture installer and a lot of that product is made in Canada and they use #3 Robertson a lot
Colton Bauman
Electrician in southern ontario. Certain EMT fittings have #3 Robertson heads, and our pipe clamps we use for bonding do as well. Other than that, don’t see them anywhere. Even more unique is the #0 Robertson. I have one, and I’ve only ever used it once.
Jerry
Did hog barn construction/remodel where we used a lot of them on larger screws. Thinking like on #12×2″ and bigger if memory serves me right.
Pastor Dan
Have you ever looked for a hex bit in Robertson #3? Seems like hog barn work would be a great place for a Milwaukee Fuel M18 Surge 1/4″ Hex Impact Driver #2760, wouldn’t you agree?
John
I just had to use one of my #3’s last week. First time ever.
Pastor Dan
Wow. Share a photo?
Aaron
I’d bet dollars for doughnuts that it is an inside joke among the animators. These things slip into these animated movies all the time and there are many articles dedicated to highlighting them.
Robin
Google PIXAR and “A113” it’s in every movie.
itsgalf
I quite enjoyed the movie with my wife and 3 daughters. The movie started off really slow but became good once it really got into the heart of the movie. Of course the main subject of the movie is father-daughter relationships, so I could relate. My wife laughed because I got her a cordless screwdriver gun for Christmas. Maybe time to buy my daughter’s a Robertson screwdriver.
Mike (the other one)
I don’t have a standalone #3 Robertson non-slip screwdriver, but I do have a few #3 Robertson non-slip insert bits. 😉
I rarely encounter #3 Robertson screws in the wild, except on some A/V and data cabinets.
Mike (the other one)
Addendum:
Robertson #1 and #2 are common in the electrical trades. I’ve also encountered them in appliances, such as stoves.
Hon Cho
Considering how many Robertson bits I have accumulated over the years you’d think Robertson head fasteners are more common in the USA than I believe they are. In the last 20 years I can only recall two or three instances of needing to use a Robertson driver.
Aaron
Kreg screws use them so it’s a pretty critical part of cabinet work. My assumption had been that they are more expensive to produce than phillips screws but less so than star drive so they are a good everyday screw for high end work.
Gordon
Kreg uses square, not Robertson. They’re similar but unique. Just like Phillips and Pozi. They feel interchangeable but there is a distinct advantage to using the correct bit with the correct fastener.
The issue with Robertson is that he never licensed it out. It was acknowledged as being superior, and companies wanted to buy them. But without licensing it, he couldn’t meet demand. So companies turned elsewhere.
Now, it’s usefulness has been surpassed by Torx. For common screws, the Spax Unidrive seems to be a winner too. It’s a Pozi/Square drive but can be used with Robertson and Phillips drivers too.
Aaron S
nice, I guess I’d just assumed! is robertson when it tapers outwards a little bit?
Kevin
Robertson drivers have an insert at the tip. The insert fits inside the shaft of the driver or bit using a tapered fit. The tip, that fits into the screw head, does have a taper. If a screw has been painted the driver often still fits but will not go in quite as far.
John
I’ve heard this a lot but I can’t find any concrete evidence of it.
Robertson is a trademarked term so the only drivers you’ll see named that are the ‘genuine robertson’ brand. But all the square drive drivers I’ve used have the same identical shape. The only difference I can tell is that the robertson ones use the two piece swaged design.
mike
Blame Henry Ford.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/9901/bit-history-the-robertson
TLDR: Candian man create robertson screws for cheaper than slotted screws, but refused to sell the patent to Ford, Henry got pissed and signed with Phillips.
Jared
Ah Robertson. It blew my mind a couple of years ago when I realized these weren’t as ubiquitous south of the border as they are in Canada. It surprised me enough that I went searching on the USA Home Depot and Lowes website to see what the heck the Americans were using if not Robertson. There are wood screws with Torx heads? Weird. 😋
Here in the great white north, other than the flat blade of electrical switch covers or the phillips head on a drywall screw, Robertson is the standard for construction fasteners.
By the way – other than the covers, are their Robertson/flat blade combo heads on your electrical hardware fasteners?
I would also like to quibble with those animated screwdrivers being #3 Robertson. They are clearly too small in proportion to the characters and the screwdrivers to be #3s.
Jim Felt
No kidding. Barely kinda #2s. And in the kids hands…
Jeremiah Ducate
Yes, most new electrical outlets and switches have combo ph2, flat, sq1 heads. Lots of fasteners in us have combo heads that work better with a square driver.
Jared
Thanks!
John
Electrical work in the US uses square driver fasteners (or more accurately they use multi fit heads, but electricians generally will use a square drive with them) for outlets, breakers, bus bars, etc. It’s the only trade that commonly uses it.
Phil
Now torx is everywhere too.
Joe H
I wish we would convert to Torx or Robertson as more common/standard here in the US. I avoid buying Phillips screws when a Torx/Robertson version is an option but sometimes I have to make a local run to a hardware store for something that day and the project can’t wait for online orders. There just isn’t much point in Phillips anymore aside from the fact that it is more common and most people have a Phillips screwdrivers already.
RI Guy
US located. We only use torx framing or whatever (when frame gun not worth setup time etc). Use square when it is a finish detail. Been a while since bought Philips for anything except auto feed floor driver or random Sheetrock.
frobo
I don’t know anything about The Mitchells vs. the Machines, but is it possible the show originates in Canada? As Jared observed, Robertson is much more common in Canada than the US. I think it’s because P.L. Robertson was a Canadian (he’s kind of the Henry Phillips of Canada according to this story:
https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwdriver-history/
Personally, I’ve always favored Robertson screws over Phillips whenever I’ve been able to find them, although both have been overshadowed by Torx which I think is superior to either.
Jim Felt
I’ve always acquired mine at an industrial “threaded” vendor starting in the late 1980’s in Portlandia.
Black oxide to 316 SS. Never looked back.
Stuart
I tried to check before this post – one of the co-writers/directors is American, and there isn’t any bio on the other.
Jeremiah Ducate
The show being Made in canada or maybe with some of the crew canadian was my thought too.
JoeM
I actually do have several #3’s… I kind of pout when I buy supplies from an American chain, and they’re the smaller #2 and #1 size.
Though, it should be noted… I think the fact that the Dad says “Nonslip” so many times, is because that is the entire purpose of a Robertson… it doesn’t have any slippage or torque-out. You can, and will, strip the hell out of your screw head if you have the torque too high, or your hand slips to one side at all.
But yes… The mention that they are Robertson, not Square Drive, makes me insanely happy to be Canadian. There are, in fact, some minor differences between a true Robertson, and a Square Drive. 90% to do with the profile of the taper on the square.
And, yes… Like using Metric for measuring things… I do prefer Robertson sizes to the rest. Slotted just make me angry at this point. The rest are just kinda… Meh… But Robertson are forever with me.
Chris Barr
They are all the wrong colour handle! A true Robertson #3 should have a black handle.
Kent E Hanson
Yup! #1 green, #2 red, #3 black, #0 yellow
ca
#00 orange, #4 brown
Mike McFalls
This article is great and these comments priceless. Had no idea they color coded the sizes- frankly didn’t know there was anything other than 1 size.
JoeM
*Note* Correct on a standard kit… But in the movie the Dad obviously had each handle painted special for each member of the family.
Notice: His is Forest Camo handled, his Wife’s matches the same shade as her shirt, same as the Son’s, and the Daughter’s is the one with the rounded bottom, indicating it’s one of the Techie ones meant to be spun at the end. Also… Matching her outfit… In fact, all of them match their outfits.
We may have to concede that it’s an animation, and be okay with “Artistic License” on our national treasure tool… I’m not happy about the idea… but we may have to… At least WE have the real ones, right?
Kinda wish “Oh Canada” was playing in the background right now, with our glorious red and white maple leaf banner was waving in the distance… Proud… PROUD moment for our nation… We made it into a CG Animated Movie without being mocked or wrongly accented… Yes… As Screwdrivers… But it’s progress! …*Sniffle*… I’m not crying, you’re crying…
DavidG
Buy a RV or travel trailer here in the US and you will get all the Robertson screws you want. They are used almost exclusively in every camper I’ve seen.
Ken
I have a #2 roberts in my truck tool kit for the camper, never seen any of the other sizes though. I suspect Canadians are at play here.
Julian ( Toronto )
In my former stage tech days – the Robertson screw was a very good “security” device for sending props and scenery crates to our pals south of the border.
We would often gaffer tape a Robertson bit or screwdriver to the underside of the lid so that once they had drilled or crowbar’ed off the top they would have the correct screwdriver for another day. Bad behaviour but fun…..
Mickey
I went out to a sale in a rural area quite a distance. The only thing I found that I wanted was a Snap On wall cabinet. We agreed on a price and I went to take it down and it was mounted to the wall with Robertson head screws. I had just about every bit and screwdriver with me but no Robertson’s, I did not get the cabinet. I shouldn’t of left home that day without a Robertson that day.
dave b
Kreg makes a Kreg Jig HD coated 2 1/2″ screw that uses a larger drill diameter and comes in handy for outdoor projects joining 1 1/2″ material. They have a coated finish and require a #3 square head driver. I misplaced my bit and had a heck of a time finding one at the big box stores.
JoeM
Ah! A fun one here… I’m sorry if this is me being too “Canadian” but… Square and Robertson are actually different. Only the square shape at the bottom are the same. Robertson curves from the point of the square, to the shaft, as well as slightly rounds the surface of a square bit. So it doesn’t grip the very bottom of the fastener at the corners, it distributes it all the way up, preventing it from slipping out, and helping to guide the end back in to vertical when using it manually.
They both have merits, and one shouldn’t shy away from using them interchangeably… Just… make sure you know the difference, because you’re going to see… just… tons of Robertson in Canada. Wood Screws bought in Canadian retailers are Robertson, not Square-Drive. Home Depot and Lowes still sell the Square Drive fasteners and bits from the US, but Canadian tire, Home Hardware, and Mom-and-Pop Hardware stores have Robertson as well. Even #3’s!
*Note To Stuart… This Topic just makes me giddy… Robertson is one those Canadian things that I’m very proud of… Some people like our Music (Which I’m ashamed of their particular choices from our wide selection.) but I’m totally nuts about our Tools and Inventions! Feel free to erase this part of the note after Moderation has ended… Just… I get overly giddy about Canadiana.
Mfsergiob
I watched this movie yesterday, with my wife and daughter.
In that scene, other character says something about who is going to be so crazy to carry a screwdriver all the time…while I was carring a leatherman surge with double bit kit,( and a self made pouch of course), sitting on the couch on Monday night.
Great movie..
After reading the coments I checked : the Leatherman kit includes R1 and R2, but not R3, so maybe i’m not that crazy ?
JoeM
I did the same! I look on the Leatherman site, and it seems to have “Replacement Canadian Bits” available. I wonder if any of Them are an R3?
Surprisingly, due to the flattened surfaces, I think one of the Hex bits may fit an R3 from corner to corner… Bad for a Robertson, but… In a pinch, maybe? Don’t have any R3 screws to test it on right now… but… Maybe?
Jared
Tangential note: SOG apparently has Robertson bits as a special request item. Or they did anyway.
SOG’s multitools aren’t as good overall as Leatherman’s in my opinion. However, their claim to fame is:
#1 the compound leverage pliers heads (which are really nicely made – all the teeth interlock and the head comes down to a very precise tip and the compound leverage gives them extra power), and
#2 that they are AOK with you modifying the tool yourself.
They sell parts explicitly for this reason. E.g. different color covers, knive blade options, files, screwdrivers, scissors, strippers etc. that you can swap out on your tool. Neat concept.
I discovered the “hidden” Robertson option while lurking on a multitool forum. It’s not listed on the website. At the time, I was debating how to mod-out my Powerlock. Then I bought a Leatherman Skeletool and realized a multitool didn’t have to be so heavy as to incite fear my pants would fall down and lost interest in pursuing it further.
I still like my SOG, but it’s more of a glovebox tool now.
Nathan
I was about to ask if this was made in Canada. or connected somehow.
meanwhile it’s a good story. thanks for the note.
NoahG
The only thing I can immediately think of that uses R3 is some larger EMT conduit fittings.
JoeM
Canadian-Sourced Wood Screws as well. I don’t know why. Especially in 1980’s large-screw assembly furniture, you still find #3 Robertson screws… Huge ones that go straight through an angled leg, anchored firmly into the tabletop. Sometimes in really heavy chairs. Look into a recess where the back connects down to the legs, you’ll see a big 1CM round hemisphere. Tell-tale sign of a #3 Robertson screw or bolt being used.
Now that I think about it… After having watched the movie… I’m not sure where they got #3 screws… They had their screwdrivers… They had problems that could only be solved with the #3 Robertson… But, somehow they also had the screws… plenty of them… I… Just don’t know where those came from… and I don’t think I can spoil the movie by saying anything… frankly now I’m just caught in the thought of it… “Where did the screws come from?”
Now I’m gonna be haunted by this… I foresee a rewatch in my near future…
Kevin
Larger wood screws (#12) use a #3 driver. Machine screws as well but less common. Some circuit breakers (Cuttler Hammer I think) can use a #3. Door hinge screws for large commercial doors. I did some work on a children’s wagon that used #3 and #4 Robertson drivers. These were machine screws/bolts. I have a #00, orange driver but have never used it. Small wood screws use a #0, yellow driver. One application is the #4 screws I bought for a flooring transition strip.
BuildingMech
My adult daughter recommended The Mitchells vs the Machines to me. She said the movie dad reminded her of me. It may have had something to do with me giving her a Megapro ratcheting screwdriver as a birthday present. Oh and for teaching her how to drive a stickshift when she was a teenager.
SteveP
Canada trains a lot of animators so there may have been some staff input there. The Robertson socket sizes obviously pair with the overall fastener sizes, so you can find a #10 screw with either a #2 Roberston head or (more commonly) an R3 socket. But you can’t find a #6 screw with an R3 socket (not enough space) and a #10 screw with a R0 or R1 socket wouldn’t work either (too little contact area for torque applied). I have R0 to R4 in my toolkit but use #2 80% of the time (and #4 almost never)
I try and buy electrical fittings in Canada when possible (I have family close to the border) since the Robertson fastener heads are so much better to work with (IMO)
Robert Adkins
I’ve used a lot of square drive SS screws, and I don’t like them. They cam out like butter. Don’t know whether the screws and bits are square or true Robertson, and I don’t want to know. Never had a Torx or star drive cam out on me, so that’s all I use now.
Pastor Dan
I hafta go along with that. The only thing I can say in defense of that is that I burned through a whole lotta Phillips stainless deck screws before the square ones got popular. I will choose Torx every time for wood screws.
I am satisfied with Phillips on 110v switches and receptacles, because I find them easier to center. And as much as I love Milwaukee, I am not terribly pleased with the ECX screw head format, though I can work with it.
Maybe we need a tapered 5-lobe system, so they’ll center up easy yet handle some torque without rounding out when they tighten up. Oh, forget i suggested that. I didn’t mean it. Unless someone makes it profitable, of course! Then I want a small cut — but not too small.
G’night, boys ‘n’ girls.
John Divers
Two points…
1. An uncle of mine worked for an Industrial/Scientific laser manufacturer in Ontario in the early 80’s. They shipped one of their lasers to Texas and after a couple of months got the following correspondence… We love the laser, but we need to do some minor maintenance. Please send us a set of your special screwdrivers. After some head scratching, they went down to their local hardware store and bought a number 1 and number 2 Robertson screwdriver for $10 total. They sent them to their customer along with a $100 invoice for “custom tooling” which was promptly and cheerfully paid.
2. Off topic, but related…The difference between square drive and Robertson has been discussed at some length here. A similar comparison is Phillips vs PoziDriv. I love Ikea products, but for years, I cursed them for their “cheap fasteners” until someone told me that they use Pozi almost exclusively, not Phillips. Three Ikea kitchens later, I can attest to the fact that their fasteners are absolutely fine, as long as you use the right tool.