Over at Amazon, I came across a listing for a “renewed” Bosch masonry drill bit set. Renewed? I’ve been seeing that label a lot on Amazon lately. What does it mean?
This is what Amazon says about “renewed” tools and other products:
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This Amazon Renewed product is professionally inspected and tested by an Amazon qualified supplier. Box and accessories may be generic.
In this instance, the Bosch drill bit set is sold as an Amazon Warehouse item. So… is it a return? Maybe the case was damaged in shipping? Refurbished in some way?
Many other tools, such as this Dewalt cordless drill, are also given “renewed” labeling.
Thinking more about the Bosch set, how does one “renew” something like drill bits? I can’t imagine being convinced to buy that set, when you can get a brand new set for just 40 cents more.
Personally, I don’t like refurbished or reconditioned tools or equipment, but that’s just me. If they were as “good as new,” they would carry similar warranties as new products, right?
Saving 2% on the Bosch accessory set isn’t worth the unknown, at least in my opinion. A 50% discount, now that would be a different story.
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If you’ve bought any of Amazon’s “renewed” tools or products, what has your experiences been like?
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Hilton
Can’t say I’ve noticed the exact wording but I have bought some stuff from Amazon Warehouse before and so far so good.
PW
I haven’t bought “renewed” tools, but have bought a couple electronic items with that designation. I would classify them as “used but cosmetically good”. They were clearly NOT “refurbished” or “renewed” or anything other than just plain used.
I was happy enough because the reviews on those particular items were informative about condition and set my expectations. In addition the price was right.
Given that experience, I would be leery of “renewed” tools. If I want a used tool I want a used price, if I pay new tool money I want a new tool.
I’m unclear how that relates to Amazon Warehouse Deals, though? I have had overall positive experiences with those for everything from tools to house fixtures. I order a LOT of those items. With AWD, about 80% of the time what I get is as good as new for my purposes. About 10% it’s cosmetically damaged or missing something, and 10% it’s flat out broken. Much of the time it’s seems like a return item. I think the broken items are usually due to a person unfamiliar with the item hastily repackaging it. In my experience I either see the problem with the item on it’s first use or I never have an issue.
Subjectively the AWD prices have gotten worse lately. They used to be pretty decent discounts, say 20-30%, but it seems enough people like me started buying them and now I often see just a few percent off.
Anyways, like you I am confused by this apparent crossover between “renewed” (which I have not had positive experiences with) and Amazon Warehouse Deals, which I generally like.
Eric
Going by Amazons response to Stuart it may just be that the used items were inspected by someone who actually knows what’s supposed to be in the packaging than by some random Amazon employee that doesn’t really know what they’re looking at. I’ve seen plenty of posts of people buying tools from AWD and getting a different tool, or one that’s obviously broken. Maybe this is just going to prevent some of that.
I have also noticed that the discounts don’t seem to be as high on a lot of items. A lot of stuff seems to start at just a couple percent cheaper than a new product. Then as time goes by the price will slowly drop until it hits the point that someone buys it.
I use a browser extension called Keepa that works like camelcamelcamel and it inserts itself into Amazons webpage so anything I look at on their site the pricing history charts automatically shows up below the item pictures. It also keeps track of the AWD prices so you can see how often one pops up, and what price, and if that price has dropped, and sometimes they even go up in price.
Stuart
To clarify, that wasn’t Amazon’s response to me, that was in the product description.
Wayne R.
I avoid “refurbished” or used hard drives completely. Other than that, quality stuff should survive a lot so if the savings are any sort of significant, I embrace refurb’ed stuff. eBay/flea markets/pawn shops are a great places to get good stuff too, with just a little care.
A different kind of thrill than a good tool store – which I haven’t found yet in Denver.
Craig
I read slightly deeper and found this from Amazon:
Amazon Renewed is your trusted destination for pre-owned and refurbished products that are inspected and tested to work and look like new. A Renewed supplier who is Amazon-qualified and performance managed, performs a full diagnostic test, replaces any defective parts, and thoroughly cleans the product. The products will have minimal to no signs of wear and no visible cosmetic imperfections when held 12 inches away. Products with batteries have at least 80% capacity relative to new and may arrive in a brown or white box with relevant accessories that may be generic.
This product comes with a minimum 90-day supplier-backed warranty
An Amazon qualified supplier will provide a replacement or refund within 90 days of your receipt if the product does not work as expected. The warranty is in addition to Amazon’s standard return policy.
Craig
Needles to say that $0.40 savings on those bits isn’t enough to get me to bite.
Craig
However, I’m seeing a renewed Dewalt 18 ga finish stapler for $69.97 and the new one at HD is listed at $124. That savings is quite a bit more intriguing, for me at least.
Altan
Here in the UK refurbished tools from DeWALT have 6 months warranty I think, not three years, so the price difference with fully new tool does not attract me to go for refurbished tool, I would not trust renewed tool accessories if the accessory itself is some sort of renewed but if it is about the case I would not mind as I don’t keep the case of any other brand except DeWALT cases. From the photo it is easily noticeable they are Bosch SDS+ drill bits.
Jerry
I was needing a large adjustable wrench and Amazon had a renewed ChannelLock for about 1/3 less than a new one and it shipped free, putting it on par price wise of some of the no name brands. I ordered it today and will report back if it shows up in anything less than like new condition. Oh, it was under $40 for a 15 inch ChannelLock which I consider quite a deal
Gordon
I don’t care too much about the savings if I can’t see actual photos of the product I’m buying.
Vards Uzvards
Then Ebay.com is probably more appropriate than Amazon.com. But it comes with a set of its own challenges, of course.
Jared
I’ve bought some Warehouse items from Amazon before. Sometimes items appear to have just damaged packaging -i.e. they had original-looking seals on the boxes, items in the box still inside wrappers, but crinkled corners on the cardboard box etc. I would have guess that maybe the item was actually new but maybe damaged in the warehouse, or maybe sent out and rejected by someone scared of the damaged box.
I’ve also bought “used acceptable” rated stuff that looked like it was repackaged, but otherwise as-good-as-new condition. One was a plastic truck wheel-well toolbox that looked totally new but came in an unmarked box and all the hardware was loose inside (but still all there).
On the other hand, I tried buying a double-din GPS/CD/backup camera head unit – rated “used-good” which was clearly a return (wires had been cut).
After installing it, I was very annoyed to discover the screen remained blank and white. That wasted hours! I had carefully soldered and heat-shrunk all the connections, wrapped all the wires in plastic sheathing, probed my factory harness to find the right hookups (so it would auto-dim, auto-switch to backup camera, know when I was parked etc.), run all the wires along my frame, the GPS cable out the firewall… ugh. I’m still annoyed thinking about it.
My experience with warehouse deals is they will slowly drop in price until someone buys it. However, I think the starting price is based on the regular price – meaning some items will at times actually be priced cheaper as “new” if they’re on sale. However, I’ve seen some very low prices too – mostly on unusual or very specific stuff. I bought some taillights for my truck for example for $15 that were regularly ~$87.
My tips would be:
1. Check the new price first – including a 3x camel search to see if it’s something where the price dips periodically.
2. Consider whether receiving a defective item (even if returnable) will ruin your day.
3. Inspect and test the used item immediately when you receive it. Amazon’s return policy removes most of the risk, but if you buy some item and don’t go to use it for a month…
Flotsam
i have seen refurbished tools especially nailers (DeWalt & Bostitch) offered on Amazon. Seemed like they wanted too much for those.
Nathan
I buy the occasionally refurbished tool from places that are know outlets – like CPO for example. And when I do that I only buy a top tier brand name. Dewalt, milwaukee, bosch etc.
They do provide a warranty and many times the items ship in OEM packaging. So far – so good.
I often do this for items I won’t use alot. Like my large sawzall is the big milwaukee – I don’t use it often but I was going to need one. Bought it CPO. My battery cordless one is a dewalt new in box – bare tool.
If the price difference isn’t more than 25% I don’t even consider it
Frank D
AWD can be hit or miss, have had to return several of those items as visually damaged and unacceptable (no hiding the flaw or dent) or actually non operational broken.
Have been seeing a fair bit of renewed as well. Just bought an electronics item that way, only obvious thing was packaging had been opened ( torn wall wart power supply box inside of resealed package ) … if the savings are 25% or more, depending on the item, as in something without a battery or moving parts, and thus hard to be abused or sticking me with a $$$ battery replacement sooner rather than later; I will buy it
Trocar
I dont know about the renewed statement but I have purchased several items from the Amazon warehouse including a Brand new Dewalt all thread cutter that was only missing its original packaging. Got it for about half the price of a new one and it still had the instruction manual. I also bought a Gas grill that arrived missing a caster and when I contacted the seller they sent a replacement at no cost. There are good deals to be had with varying descriptions if you don’t mind taking a chance or taking the time to hunt for them.
ktash
I’ve gotten a lot of small things from AWD. The price has to be good or I’ll just buy the new product. On the product page it will give you a link that says “new and used from $. . .) If that used price is much better than the new one, I’ll get that one. Mostly these have been damaged packaging or repackaged and mostly just as good as the new ones. A few duds or mispackaged items, but they go right back for a refund.
I’ve gotten a few electric or battery tools that way, too, but never had a problem and some have been in service for a long time. When I had less money for tools it was either buy a good brand that was used or a cheapie brand, so I opted for the better brand.
But the price has to be significantly lower, or I’ll opt for the new one.
ktash
Oh, and I’ve seen AWD products that are actually more than the new price. So always check the new price before clicking the buy button.
Raoul
I avoid refurbs like the plague. I tried them in the past but was burned too many times.
OhioHead
Metabo refurbished has been my jam, bought via supply house and 15 years later still running strong!
Depends on who does the re-work would be my question, manufacture = yes, 3rd party = no.
Would not purchase reworked accessories……..
OhioHead
We have to remember Big Box retailers allow for power tool rental for weekend warriors…….TTI owns there own Outlet store (tools direct (?)), you can inspect before you buy.
Albert
Those Bosch drill bits, brand new, are 40 cents more at Home Depot. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy “renewed” consumables if they were cheaper. I bought a refurbished cell phone once and won’t do that again. I’ve had varying success with refurbished power tools, from like-new to partially defective to well-used.
Corey Moore
I elect to avoid as many thought processes (processi?) as I safely can. Like that one lol Anyway, if you need it: get new. Need it, but not reasonably affordable new: due-diligence the hell out of it and hedge your bet as much as possible on an expectedly lesser option. Don’t need it: chill out, enjoy a win or brush off a loss-you didn’t need it.
Paul C
OK, this comment comes directly from my machine shop instructor from many moons ago. Not sure if he’s even alive still since that was over 25 years ago and at least 1000 miles from where I live now. I grew up buying bits just like my dad on the farm and guess what? They all stank. TiN, cobalt, HSS, all the same. Then I took a machine shop class and I was introduced to the meanest, fastest, best drill bits I ever saw. I mean you could do things with these bits that would take an entire box of the other ones. I could cut holes in minutes. My machinist instructor was kind of like learning from a nun though. You’d get your hands slapped if you did the wrong thing! If you were squealing (running too fast) or chattering (too slow) and he heard it in the room, you’d be in the back sharpening bits for the whole class for your grade. Drills was the first thing we learned and the most important. I think we all took turns sharpening drills and we all learned very quickly that we either did it right every time or we suffered the consequences. After first quarter we were allowed to use the DD but before that, we had to sharpen them all by hand with a file. I got some practice but I was determined if possible not to spend my whole class in the back sharpening bits.
When it comes to drill bits there are basically 2 grades of drill bits. If you want a quality drill bit you need to buy what machinists buy. So go to your favorite industrial supply house (MSC, McMaster) catalog and look for “jobber length drill bit set”. The key part is “jobber length”. Today you can find them on Amazon too but back then they came from a catalog. Amazon didn’t even exist yet. That’s machinist lingo there for the same length you get in a set from the retail store but since you used machinist lingo, you get a machinist set. Jobber length is the most common. Shops buy them in bulk so it keeps prices super cheap. Times have changed but the words haven’t. That key search phrase knocks out 99% of the junk. After that, just buy HSS. You can buy all the fancy stuff but it usually doesn’t do much better unless you are in a shop production environment. And with your “generic” HSS and a cheap Drill Doctor, you can easily put a new point on it and sharpen it almost forever until it is down to so short that you have to throw it away if you know how to sharpen bits with a file or use a Drill Doctor to do it. I finally bought a Drill Doctor a couple years ago and it’s much faster than filing them down by hand. I don’t remember what grade I got but I passed the class with my knuckles intact.
A complete HSS index in 32nds will set you back around $60-100 on Amazon (not AWD) from a quality machine shop supplier. Like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Drill-America-29-Piece-High-Speed-Increments/dp/B00B0327QQ/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=jobber+drill+bit+set&qid=1556160842&s=gateway&sr=8-10
I really like the “coffee cup holders” over the traditional steel box. It keeps them dry when I’m out in the elements. I work all over so that’s important to me. If you work primarily in a garage or shop, go for the cheaper metal or plastic boxes.
So no I wouldn’t hesitate to use a refurbished drill bit. In fact a lot of mine get refurbished on a regular basis, by me. I don’t tend to preserve 135 degree points but I generally adjust the angles a little for increased performance…easy to do with a DD where 135 degree points are not too hard to do with a hand file but still time consuming. I tried it on the DD once then never again. All it really does it make them self-centering but since I usually use a center punch they don’t do much for me. About the only thing you can’t fix (or not easily) is breaking one.
OK, so we covered type 1. Now let’s talk about type 2 and why you should never buy them.
The second type of bit is to take a bunch of cheap low grade medium carbon rods shaped like drill bits. They would never, ever consider using high carbon steel (HSS) because it takes far longer to cut the drill bits out of that and wastes a lot more carbide or diamond for what is essentially a cheap consumer market. In the undipped form, this is what you see in the $5 box from HF. Now the fun begins. Dip coat them in TiN coating. Jack up the prices to machine shop range and pass them off as the real thing, like this Dewalt TiN coated 29 piece set similar to the above.
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW1969-Piece-Pilot-Assortment/dp/B0000683DM/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=dewalt+drill+bit+set&qid=1556160885&s=gateway&sr=8-18
It’s obviously junk. How can I tell? Several reasons. First off have you ever bent one? I have. Real HSS is so high carbon that it can only shatter. You can’t bend them. Try it in a vice with a hammer and you’ll find out right away. Sometimes they shatter but they bend, too. Second is color and price. If it was a real TiN bit it would run around $100 or more per bit. Those are gold which is the first give away and at 29 for around $60 that works out to around $2 each. Anyone ever seen the Dewalt name without a Dewalt premium price tag except at a flea market? Nope, me neither.
Now to be honest it is certainly possible that SBD used good quality HSS bits, dipped them in TiN coating to get the gold color, and somehow managed to keep the pricing the same as a quality shop bit. And I can prove this if I stick it in my DD and sharpen it, and incidentally removing the gold crap off it. What I will get might be able to drill one hole through say 14 gauge steel, MAYBE. And pigs fly too, believe me! I can tell because I used to have a few of these and once in a while I get them for Christmas or something. I do keep them around in the box because they work OK for drilling through wood and plastic but never on steel. Usually they rust up before I ever even get a chance to use them because it’s just as easy to pull out the HSS which is where I know to find it.
The problem is that with TiN coating on your bits, you can’t see what you are buying and you have no idea what kind of crap the underlying bit is. Instead of an actual drill bit that has say 2″ of meat on it that you can sharpen and use for years or at least to drill a dozen or more holes, you are paying for a couple thousandsth of cheap low grade coating supported by something labelled HSS that isn’t, and shouldn’t be.
But a walk down the aisle of pretty much any retail tool store reveals row upon row upon row of TiN coated drill bits. HD, Lowes, Northern, doesn’t matter. Junk, junk, junk.
And getting back to Stu’s posting, my DD contains detailed instructions on sharpening concrete bits. It looks like it should be pretty easy. There’s not as much material to work with so much less reuse but if you’re not sharpening your own bits anyways, who cares. The only concrete bits I use are SDS for setting Redheads and similar concrete anchors on machinery with a Hilti and that thing goes through bits so fast it’s definitely not worth resharpening them. One or two out of a set is one thing but a handful after every job is quite another. Fortunately as Stu said the cost is so low it’s not even worth doing. The drill bits are cheaper than the anchors.
PW
Just wanted to say thanks for the detailed perspective. I’ve wondered whether the bit types you linked were worth it, I’ll have to try them out. I like the idea of buying good steel bits that can be resharpened.
bobad
Real TiN coating is now very cheap. I helped develop TiN coated drills. I field tested thousands of them for a Fortune 500 company many years ago. We took large lots of expensive drills, and sent half of them out for TiN coating. It got really technical, measurements going down to .0001. We calculated $ savings on large, small, shallow, and deep holes.
You can TiN coat “alloy” drill bits, and they are still junk. You can also TiN coat genuine HSS, cobalt, and high grade carbide bits, and they are still great.
TiN coating is a gimmick, except for very high precision production drilling. TiN coating will do you no good using a hand drill or cheap drill press. TiN coating does prolong the life of production drills drilling harder steels, by 15-20% on heavy duty precision drilling machines.
I recently bought a set of 29 TiN coated HSS drills from HF for 13 bucks. I drilled some hard material that alloy can’t handle, and they did great. I’m impressed, and believe they are real HSS. I will know when I break one. 🙂
Big Richard
The Dewalt bits in your link are not TiN HSS. They do not advertise them to be either. Not sure where you are getting that. They are their “Gold Ferrous”. Essentially your standard all purpose black oxide bit with some sort of “gold” plating. They are decent for wood, PVC, etc., but they are definitely not meant for hard steels.
Johnny M.
As a Milwaukee fan, it was encouraging to see nothing from Milwaukee on the AWD, fwiw.
Stuart
That could be because Amazon isn’t an authorized Milwaukee distributor.
Johnny M.
That’s curious, Amazon sells it, but Amazon is not an authorized dealer? Oh well.
Stuart
Yep.
https://toolguyd.com/where-are-amazon-and-walmart-getting-their-milwaukee-tool-inventory-from/
Even for the Milwaukee tools sold and shipped by Amazon, they’re not coming from Milwaukee Tool. I asked my PR contacts where the tools are sourced from, and they have no idea.
Amazon also had listings for Harbor Freight tools. https://toolguyd.com/harbor-freight-bauer-cordless-tools-available-at-amazon/
My guess is that they’re doing this to be able to compete for search traffic for those brands.
Johnny M.
Thanks for the info./links and history.
Jo B
I’ve bought many refurbished tools from DeWalt Factory Service Centre and never had a problem. They looked and smelled brand new, and I only paid 1/ to 2/3 the price. It was well worth it to me. I’d be hesitant to buy tools on Amazon that weren’t factory serviced first.
Jerry
Got my renewed ChannelLock adjustable wrench today. In New condition except for slight damage to the packaging. The wrench itself is in New condition.
And no, I don’t know why auto correct is capitalizing the word New.
Cannon
I picked up a life proof case for my new iPhone XS Max that was “renewed”. I can’t notice any difference between this and a brand new one. Was in original box with all accessories. Believe it had all the stickers and everything as it would new. 10/10 will do again.
bobad
About a year ago, I needed a 5ah DeWalt battery, and man it was expensive. I checked eBay, and found one marked “new but not in original packaging”. The battery was half price, so I gambled and won. The battery didn’t have even a micro scratch, and has been great. I think a lot of the “renewed” stuff is returns. Some dishonest people buy tools for 1 job, being careful not to scratch them, then return them. The tools are then sent to a 3rd party where they strip them and sell the (example) drill, battery, and charger separately for better profit.
Fred
Renewed is just their way of charging more money for used stuff.