The other day, I posted about the new Craftsman 20V Max drill and impact driver kit that appeared at Sears.com.
Thanks to some footwork by Tom (thank you again!), we have some more details about the new Sears Craftsman tools.
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The 300 in-lbs drill has a 2-speed gearbox with 0-350 and 0-1300 RPM ranges. The impact driver delivers up to 1100 in-lbs of torque. Both have an “electric brake” to “quickly stop bit rotation.”
Those specs are on the low-end of what I would expect to see from an 18V or 20V Max-class drill/driver.
Tom spoke with the associate at his local Sears store, and this is what was said:
I was actually driving past one of the last Sears in my area and decided to stop in. They had the new drill in stock. They wouldn’t take it out of the package for me.
The worker told me—very excitedly—that Black and Decker is coming out with 1500 new tools and these are the first they have received. He said that the batteries were compatible with Dewalt since all Craftsman power tools is just rebranded Dewalt.
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No, no, no.
I was told that the new SBD Craftsman tools will NOT be available at Sears. This isn’t one of the new Craftsman V20 offerings.
Could it even be made by Stanley Black & Decker? That’s highly unlikely. To be thorough, let’s for a moment pretend that we’re unsure of this, and take a closer look. The new “DieHard” 20V Max slide-style battery does not look to match the geometries of any current Stanley Black & Decker brand battery pack.
As an aside, after testing the new Craftsman entry-level and premium cordless drills at their recent media event, I can tell you for certain that they’re not “just rebranded Dewalt.” Maybe the brushless drill evolved from Dewalt designs or specs, but not the entry-level one.
Looking at an image of the new Sears Craftsman drill and Sears Craftsman Bolt-On drill with Black & Decker-compatible 20V Max battery pack, it’s obvious that they’re distinct and non-compatible shapes.
If Stanley Black & Decker was in any way related to the new Sears Craftsman 20V Max products, they could (or should) have made them compatible with the Bolt-On 20V Max tools and battery packs, which were made by Stanley Black & Decker for Sears.
Here’s a look at the Black & Decker SmartTech drill, for another example. No match.
There are some resemblances to Dewalt’s 20V Max battery pack form factor, but even if the geometries were a closer match, I can all but guarantee that Stanley Black & Decker is not building Craftsman tools and DieHard battery packs for Sears.
What the Sears associate said to Tom seems concerning. Did they mean what they said as fact, or was it their presumption? Hearsay?
The worker told me—very excitedly—that Black and Decker is coming out with 1500 new tools and these are the first they have received. He said that the batteries were compatible with Dewalt since all Craftsman power tools is just rebranded Dewalt.
Where did the associate get this information from?
I am waiting for Craftsman (SBD, not Sears) to get back to me about this, but in the meantime, I am 99.9% certain that what the Sears associate told Tom is completely inaccurate, and that there is zero cross-brand tool and battery compatibility.
This is exactly one of the concerns I have, both about Craftsman tools being pushed hard at Lowes stores, and Sears launching new Craftsman tools of their own. Interpretation and misinterpretation of facts and policies is going to be a problem if not carefully handled. I regularly hear about Kobalt and Husky warranty or replacement issues, and I used to hear about Craftsman warranty problems too, back when more people bought tools at Sears.
When there’s an issue, and tools are covered by warranties or satisfaction guarantees, most consumers will head to their local store for immediate resolution. Sometimes that’s the best or only option. What will happen when a customer takes a Lowes-bought Craftsman tool to Sears? A Sears-bought Craftsman tool to Lowes?
At Stanley Black & Decker’s 2018 Craftsman brand relaunching media event, I asked about the warranty, and how replacements would be handled, since that type of service would be expected from customers used to Sears’ Craftsman warranty policies.
I was told that users could eventually potentially replace pre-SBD Craftsman tools with “2018 versions” at Lowes. It’s possible that I didn’t quite interpret things correctly, but I took that to mean that a broken non-SBD Craftsman tool could be exchanged at Lowes. This sounds very reasonable to me, and it’s something that could potentially convince now-former Craftsman tool fans to give the “new” Craftsman brand a chance.
The biggest test might come in December and January, when tool users seek to replace, exchange, or return Craftsman-branded tools that were purchased or gifted to them during the holiday shopping season.
By then, Sears associates and Lowes customer service associates will have to get things right. If not, it’ll be even harder for Craftsman to appeal to customers who are either confused or let-down by the retailers’ handling of things.
Wait, there’s more. Following are significant excerpts from Tom’s online chat with Sears customer service. He shared the transcript with me when he first tipped me off about the new Sears Craftsman cordless power tools. The online chat preceded the dialog – discussed above – that he had with a local Sears retail store associate.
Tom (17:11:16 GMT) : I am looking at: Item # 00921417000
Tom (17:11:55 GMT) : I have a question about this drill. I haven’t ever noticed this on the site before and the batteries don’t appear compatible with any other Craftsman tools. Is this a new line of power tools that Sears is offering?
Sears Rep (17:12:47 GMT) : I will check the details for you.
Sears Rep (17:21:17 GMT) : 20V Drill and Impact Driver Combo Kit is a brand new item introduced by Craftsman.
Tom (17:23:28 GMT) : Can you tell me whether there are going to be new products offered under this battery platform?
Sears Rep (17:24:58 GMT) : Yes, there will be new products offered under this battery platform.
Tom (17:25:11 GMT) : Is there any information on this? A brochure or a website?
Sears Rep (17:26:39 GMT) : I will help you with the link for Craftsman website.
Sears Rep (17:29:48 GMT) : https://www.craftsman.com/
The conversation continues.
Tom (17:37:04 GMT) : Do you have any information about other products offered under this battery platform?
Sears Rep (17:38:07 GMT) : https://www.sears.com/dewalt-tools-dewalt-dck285l2-20v-max-lithium-ion/p-00901656000P
Sears Rep (17:38:13 GMT) : Please check.
Tom (17:39:41 GMT) : Hi, that’s a Dewalt drill
Tom (17:39:47 GMT) : Not craftsman
Sears Rep (17:40:19 GMT) : Sorry.
Sears Rep (17:40:22 GMT) : https://www.sears.com/craftsman-c3-19.2-volt-drill-impact-combo-kit/p-00955233000P
Sears Rep (17:40:28 GMT) : Check the above link.
The Sears customer service agent is trying to help Tom, but is obviously ill-informed. First they direct them to the new Craftsman website to see more tools under the Sears Craftsman 20V Max power tool lineup, but customers visiting Craftsman’s website will currently see the new SBD Craftsman V20 offerings. Then the chat agent links to a Dewalt 20V Max tool combo, and then a Craftsman C3 19.2V kit when asked about other products on the same platform.
That’s 0 for 3. All 3 of their referrals would have led a less tool-savvy customer to an incompatible cordless tool battery platform.
In Andrew’s post about the new Craftsman brand, he showed a screenshot of Craftsman brand advertising behind the home plate at a Brewers-Cubs baseball game. Will SBD’s marketing efforts inadvertently drive some customers to Sears, thinking they’ll find the new tools there, even thought they’ll only be at Lowes?
This is a messy situation, and it’s not any better that Sears’ new Craftsman 20V Max cordless power tools have the same color scheme as SBD’s new Craftsman V20 cordless power tools, not to mention the same brand name.
News articles, discussing the potential confusion about there being two separate Craftsman brands, quote spokespersons from Stanley Black & Decker and Sears who don’t appear to be concerned about potential customer confusion.
According to a Chicago Tribune report about the potential confusion surrounding the Craftsman brand the way things are now, a Sears spokesman said that both companies have agreed to a set of brand standards and guidelines, in the context of avoiding customer confusion.
It’s been a while since I’ve chatted with Sears about tools, which was when I tested their Sears Blue Tool Crew “tool expert” a while ago.
Here’s how my weekend chat with Sears went:
Stuey (01:45:29 GMT) : Hello. Is the Craftsman 20V drill and impact driver combo kit compatible with the Craftsman V20 drill kit shown at craftsman.com?
Stuey (01:45:31 GMT) : https://www.sears.com/20v-drill-and-impact-driver-combo-kit/p-A027414469
Stuey (01:45:39 GMT) : https://www.craftsman.com/products/20v-max-drill-driver-kit
Sears Rep (01:46:08 GMT) : Let me check on that and help you .
Sears Rep (01:47:28 GMT) : I have checked on that and see that the Craftsman 20V drill and impact driver combo kit will be compatible with the Craftsman V20 drill kit.
Stuey (01:47:46 GMT) : Okay, thank you!
Sears Rep (01:48:06 GMT) : Satisfying customers by offering them a good value is what we are all about!
I basically asked if these two cordless tools platforms were compatible with each other, and Sears’ customer service chat said yes. If Sears sales associates and customer service representatives are confused, you can certainly bet that customers will be confused.
I think that there could be more confusion than anyone might have anticipated.
Sco Deac
Both of those on-line chat sessions look like AI fails. I seriously doubt there is a real live person on the other end of the chat, which makes this even more egregious. I would understand Sears saying it takes time to train their reps and that a few misinformed employees are still out there. It should be much faster to correct to algorithm.
Stuart
That’s certainly possible, but difficult to test for.
Lenny
There probably was a person on the other end of the chat, but unfortunately, as has been the case over the last decade or so, the That person is either in India or the Philippines, and has no clue what Sears or Craftsman is all about. Never mind the wonderful nostalgia most of us have about the Iconic Brand that Eddie Lampert (I’m the smartest guy in the room) destroyed. Lampert will do very well because of the underlying real estate he will retain, but obviously he never walked through the Tool & Hardware section of Sears as a kid.
They are reading from a Script. A sadder ending to an already Sad story.
J. HOPPER
Well for those who don’ t know : Black &Decker /Dewalt /MACtools /Stanley are all owned by Stanley Tool Company look it up 🙂
Tanner
Hints the company name, Stanley Black & Decker…not Stanley Tool Company. They also own Irwin, Porter Cable, Proto, Lenox, Vidmar, Bostitch, and Mac Tools, as well an numerous other is numerous categories. In which all of the info can be found throughout ToolGuyd.com
Mitchell Smith
I could see this holiday season being a shit-show that really knee-caps the Craftsman brand.
You’ve got SBD running around trying to put the word out about their new offerings, and their focus on US manufacturing, while Sears is rolling out more low-quality chinesium garbage with the Craftsman name on it. To make it worse, most people don’t know that SBD owns Craftsman now, and have no idea there is any difference. They probably just think Lowes contracted with Sears to sell Craftsman tools. Training or no training, can you imagine the average Lowes associate trying to explain that there are 2 Craftsmans? How about a Sears associate? Those people can’t differentiate between their asshole and their elbow.
I forsee a bunch of people seeing the advertising from SBD about the new Craftsman, running out to buy Craftsman tools from Sears either in store or online, and then deciding “Well, this is the same old cheap garbage Craftsman has been putting out for a decade now. I guess this whole new Craftsman thing is just marketing B.S.” and turning even further away from the brand.
Jim Felt
Your elbow and a hole thought reminded me of a conversation I had last winter with a Sears tool department employee. Who assured me (and I suppose himself as well) that “his” store was performing well and that they were there for good.
I didn’t feel like telling him that the mall developer had a week or two earlier publically stated Sears was leaving in the (following) first quarter.
And, of course, they did indeed shutter this last in (my) city main store within a few months.
Poor wistful thinking schmuck…
And poor us for the failings of both the old Sears and the newest Eddie the Liqiudator management. RIP.
Mitchell Smith
My local Sears not only hired someone…but apparently “over-hired” people. I laughed and said I was surprised Sears was in a position to hire anyone. Feel sorry for the new employees that will be out of a job soon when the store closes though.
Tanner
As somebody who works brand (not tool, but footwear company) this is absolutely, to your point, a shit-show. I cannot wrap my brain around why SBD allowed this in the purchase agreement. There’s too much reparation that needs to take place, and with a full remodel of the brand, the last thing you need is brand confusion.
I really think confusion is exactly what Sears wants. They only stand to benefit from confusion. If they market knows there’s superior or offered by someone other than sears, where do you think they’ll go? Surely not to sears where who the heck knows if you’ll be able to be taken care of in the event of return given all of the closures and potential closure of the entire retailer. We still have a Sears near us, at least remnants of it, but I personally do not know of anyone that still goes to Sears for anything (Southern US).
I wouldn’t have gone for this deal due to the lack of control of your brand and investment. You have to be able to control your brand and that’s impossible with the current setup. I would have passed entirely or would think you’d have wanted to pay whatever premium Sears wanted to outright give up Sears. I’m sure they wanted to continue selling the brand while they are still around, and I’d guarantee you SBD didn’t want to sell them out of fear of repayment. It’s no secret Sears has had a hard time keeping up with payment of their invoices across all categories and there’s too many manufacturers vendors trying desperately to get away as the time is coming where they won’t be able to pay for shipped product.
My only rational thought is, and purely personal speculation, is that what if SBD placed a bet that they won’t make it beyond a few years. That would have possibly kept them from having to pay Sears valuations as far as lost sales from having product on th shelves while also keeping SBD from worrying about extending debt/lines of credit to the struggling retailer out of fear of lack of repayment. They could have also bet on the vast majority of tool customers no longer go to sears or visit the website. Again, these are just my thoughts trying o rationalize a very odd and frankly stupid agreement.
This all could very well and more than likely will happen this way whether intended or not, but in the meantime it will be a full-fledged circus style mess as far as brand presentation goes.
dstblj 52
It certainly looks like SBD’s bet may be successful
Steve
At least there’s fewer and fewer Sears stores for people to find the confusing tools at as time goes on. Soon this won’t be a problem because there simply won’t be a Sears anymore. However it’s a problem as of now though so the best rule of thumb is “if it says DieHard on the battery, stay away”. We’ll see how Lowes and SBD handle the customer service aspect of this as we know there is no hope for the Sears customer service, it’s part of why they are in the poor shape they are.
satch
My thoughts about the batteries as well. I said it in the other post. Just make sure you tell your friends and family if they buy anything Craftsman in the future, make sure it comes from Lowes. I would have loved to add Amazon to the list but since they will evidently be selling both Romulus and Remus Craftsman tools, it will make it worse til the waters are cleared. If ever.
Steve
Nice Romulus and Remus reference.
Gary
1) The employees and online chatters do not have a clue what is going on … last year, shortly after the acquisition closed, an associate explained that all of the “Pro Series” tools were Stanley additions to the Craftsman lineup.
2) Insofar as most of these tools will be sold in stores, there just aren’t that many stores left anymore. In Houston, they’re closing what was their biggest remaining store in late October.
Will there be confusion? Yes, but probably not nearly as much as would’ve been the case in years past. If this ends up being sold in Amazon, that could be a problem.
Ben
How would Sears have managed to design, contract and manufacturer intentionally fake power tools AND shipped them to their stores in less than 4 weeks? Sears may be hoping for some upside from SBD investment in Craftsman (and as licensees, why would they not be entitled to that), but it’s pretty disingenuous to accuse them of intentionally misleading customers. Their store associates likely do not have complete information and I wouldn’t trust anything they say; just like the random Walmart shelf stocker isn’t gonna to tell me when Hypertough launches their new .
Sears should just brand their stuff as “Sears craftsman” to avoid confusion.
Jim Felt
Perhaps fast Eddie’s minions are sneakier then we realize? Or at least some of us want to admit?
Bonuses might at stake and who actually is left at Sears (and ever at K Mart) that actually has any fond feelings towards the old Craftsman ethic? Zero? Less then zero?
And I’m totally speaking just as a nostalgic Craftsman too customer and a (fortunately!) former stock holder.
Stuart
I’m not saying that they’re intentionally misleading any customers; my point is that confusion is in their benefit, as SBD’s Craftsman marketing efforts might benefit Sears too.
Sears is in the position where clearing up any confusion might hurt them. They won’t say “sorry, those aren’t the Craftsman tools you’re looking for?” Instead, it looks like they’re prepared to say “look at OUR new Craftsman tools, here.”
Tool department associates should be in-the-know. Online customer service representatives should at least be aware that Sears Craftsman is no longer aligned with Craftsman or Craftsman.com.
Mike
Sears has been deceiving customers with overpriced Chinese crap for years. Why would they stop now?
Keni
Precisely, I wouldn’t put this past any of upper management to lie or use ventricular to perplex the average American. Either Sears and Stanley Black and Decker are colluding with each other, rather the CEO’s have a backdoor deal or this is a matter of impotence.
Some that visit sites such as Toolguyd and other tool forums are more educated than the average Joe when this comes to tool related information. Sears is likely counting on this, despite the fact this won’t make Lampert that much money in the future. Within a year or two, hopefully more, I don’t see Sears existing in the near future.
Wouldn’t trust any information any Sears “employee” would tell me, as either they are merely telling you anything to get out of the conversation and or are misinformed. This confusion was done intentionally as someone is benefiting from this.
If I were Stanley Black and Decker, I’d find a well spoken, corporate loyalist to clarify this on televised media and on social media as well. To the atypical consumer that would buy tools, all they have to do is simply explain the differences.
As for those that are more informed, chances neither Sears or SBD will ever provide the inner workings on this deal. At least in the case of why there isn’t distinct differences. Chances are both corporations know actual professionals quality matters and they don’t have time for junk.
Jim Felt
Now on a separate note I went through my Craftsman mechanic’s tools and found some missing upgrades. And last night on eBay I found both the polished Professional and the weirder still Industrial Craftsman Tools I was missing.
And scored them.
So there is some value to Eddie Lampert screwing up* the corpse of Sears. At least for some of us. ;-)~
*Kindly note how I carefully avoided using the more appropriate descriptor.
charles
sbd better get their act together asap. which includes slapping “Sears” somehow. I was in a Lowes this weekend and there was an endcap full of “Craftsman” battery powered tools, didn’t even pause to look at it. I’m still pondering my first DeWalt 20v Max purchase, after buying $1000s of the 18V with all li-ion batteries over the last 10 years. at this rate Craftsman won’t be rehabilitated for me before I die.
Diamond Dave
The Craftsman SAGA continues! Heck I purchased a set of “Diehard Branded” Work Boots from Sears online because they had a great sale on them + cashback points were dollar for dollar. The boots did not fit and rather than speeding $10-$12 Shipping them back, I took them to our last Sears store
In town. (They just closed the other 2 near me a couple of months ago) Sears could NOT refund me because these boots were invoiced and shipped to me by Kmart! I told them “Diehard” is a Sears name! In summary I am stuck with these Sears branded “Diehard” boots, purchased online at Sears because there are no open Kmarts in my city anymore!
Jalopy_J
Yeah, people will be confused, but V20 20v max, Sears 20v max, and the moribund C3 line are woefully uncompetitive even compared to other cheaper power tool lines like Ryobi or Kobalt. So it’s a bad deal anyways. Most readers of this website know that, but it might be worth mentioning to unsuspecting friends or family to basically stay away from any Craftsman power tools, especially with the holidays just a couple months away.
Framer joe
Is SBD so clever that we can’t see what they’re doing or are they complete morons?
Pros won’t he buying either craftsman brand but I do feel bad for home owners.
As some of said above, after someone buys this Sears craftsman junk ,they certainly won’t be buying SBD craftsman either , probably not any SBD product..
Why would you risk your reputation by having this mass confusing? SBD should never have agreed to let Sears make any craftsman tool ever again…but what do I know ,I’m not worth hundreds of billions of dollars…
MT_Noob
How does ACE hardware fit into all of this?
I’ve seen “Craftsman” stuff there for a while now. Is the ACE stuff “SBD Craftsman” or the “flailing legacy Craftsman”?
The ACE website shows some of the C3 items, but I don’t know of those are carried in store or just on line. (Not that I’d ever buy Craftsman battery powered anything)
Stuart
I think that the initial rollout will be at Lowes, but Ace has been mentioned as a Craftsman dealer before.
Carl
Ace has been selling Craftsman tools for several years now. So I’m confused with your initial roll out comment.
MT_Noob
I think the confusion just proves the overall point that having this split brand thing going on is just going to confuse the general public. Hopefully the original Sears will soon fadeaway and the SBD reboot can move forward without the confusion of old sears still making Craftsman tools.
Stuart
Initial rollout of Stanley Black & Decker’s 1200+ new and completely different Craftsman tools.
Jeff Deutsch
Instead of analyizing Sears tools, take a moment to read the business news. Sears is months away from being gone. The stock price is $1.20 today. Lambert is stripping the bones and actually making money. 3/4 of Sears stores have closed and more are on the way. K Mart numbers are even worse. The delayed second quarter earnings statement just came out and they lost even more millions than last quarter. They haven’t made a profit in 10 years. There is nothing left. They have not kept up the stores and now have no money to do it. The shelves are empty. Suppliers have cut them off. Best guess is before the end of 2019. The confusion over the two Craftsman lines will soon be over.
Robin
I believe the confusion will be more so on Lowe’s end than Sears.
There are more Lowe’s stores than Sears and Kmart that once tool returns start after the holidays, Lowe’s may have to deal with more Sears Craftsman returns than Sears would with SBD Craftsman returns.
Good Customer Service would dictate that Lowe’s just go ahead and process the Sears Craftsman Refunds and Vice-Versa. However, that will remain to be seen.
satch
I thought the same thing. It may just be that SBDC is holding their nose and going along with the charade so to speak. Maybe they know something about the impending(hopefully and it is something I never believed I would ever think) demise of Sears and are willing to eat the proverbial crap sandwich on some of the returns.
Honestly, other than initial confusion over the power tools, most people associate returns, warranty and similar to the hand tools. The power tools never carried the good warranties and most people who buy the bargain depot type stuff from current Sears stores use the drills about twice a year. By the time the batteries go bad or the drills malfunction they will be getting told their warranties are expired.
Maybe SBDC will come up with some bone to throw them like if they upgrade and turn in their Sears models they get a voucher for some amount or percentage off the price of new models from their manufacture.
See Jeff’s post just above yours. The stock outlook is great for Sears(from our viewpoint anyway LOL) not so much for stockholders. I hope this fiasco ends soon.
Charles
Exactly. Offer some killer instant rebate on a new sbd/craftsman or a slightly lower rebate on dewalt or black and decker equivalent power tool. Dead or alive, full kit only. That would sweep a lot of the noise away and would probably be both cheaper than a nationwide ad campaign and more effective at getting sbd products into the hands of consumers. It would also clean out the pawnshops of all the old craftsman junk. Which is a good thing.
Gordon
Not only good CS, but just simple economics. Could you imagine trying to train Lowe’s employees to know the difference between an SBD Craftsman and a Sears Craftsman? It would be impossible, and you would still have employees making mistakes. The only feasible option for SBD is to just accept that they will warranty items they didn’t make. Otherwise they are going to be pissing off people that don’t know better, perpetuate the stigma with Craftsman, and send Lowe’s on the same path as Sears.
Davidfunk
Who shops at Sears anymore? Abandon ship it’s going down. Sbd saved the only thing worth saving.
Gordon
Sears still owns Kemore, for the time being. I think it’s inevitable that Maytag buys them just for the name. Just like SBD. DieHard will probably go to a company like Walmart.
MonkeyG
Whirpool owns the Maytag brand. Not sure what the Kenmore name does for them.
Carl
Actually pretty easy to stem the confusion at the return desk; “please show us the Lowes reciept that you purchased this tool from us.” Sears would absolutely want the reciept before processing a return or exchange so why shouldn’t Lowes.
Stuart
Sears never asked me for a receipt. They were always able to see the model number or find an approximate match.
A lot of customers will be expecting the same hassle-free policy from Lowes.
carl
I doubt that. Anytime I’ve returned something to Lowes, they need the receipt.
Robin
I would think about a non-savvy tool purchaser who is buying this as a gift for someone. No receipt. I believe many of us wouldn’t be rude to someone and ask for a receipt so they can return a gift.
Just thought of something. If Sears employees (brick and mortar and online) are telling people that their tools are manufactured by SBD, what’s to stop them from telling customers that they can be returned anywhere?
Last thing. If you study the boxes the tools come in (I know it’s a little overboard). The SBD box state that “Craftsman is a trademark of Stanley Black and Decker” where Sears boxes say they are distributed by “Sears Brand Management Corporation” so if someone is confused as to where the tools were purchased, look for those differences.
carl
Ever heard of a Gift Receipt ? Shows what was bought and where but no price.
Robin
Well aware of what a Gift Receipt is.
I just don’t think that it’s going to be the magic pill to solve all of Lowe’s and Sears’ return issues.
Jason L.
The 20V Die Hard battery (the left drill in the pictures) looks very similar to my 20V Dewalt batteries. Whether it is compatible or not, I don’t know. The way it attaches and the form factor is definitely very close though.
Taras
They won’t be the same. SBD has 20v batteries that look similar across their lines but are incompatible. These new ones will likely also be “proprietary”.
Erik
Stuart, take a look at the LAWNMASTER 24v Max lawn tool batteries (this comapny makes the 24v Max Craftsman Lawn equipment. The shape and designs of the sides of this battery look identical to these Sears Craftsman 20v batteries on these new tools.
Sean
Anyone know if Lowe’s is ever planning on selling individual Craftsman ratchets? I have a set from the mid 90’s (USA made) that I absolutely love.. I just don’t want to go all in on an entire set if they are not up to snuff. I’ve branched out to Kobalt, Teng Tool and Tekton to tide me over until I get more information on the new offerings.
Taras
Stick with Tekton. They are great tools with a fantastic customer service.
Coach James
Sears has been a confusing mess or a long time. For years, they had the simple to understand Craftsman Club. Then they created the Shop your Way points. Some Sears employees told me the C-man club was gone, replaced by SYW and others told me it was still existant. Sears management never gave me a straight answer. As a result, I paid no more attention to either one.
Sears power tools used to be simple to understand then they began introducing multiple platforms that I couldn’t keep straight. Making it worse, they stopped supporting some platforms seemingly as soon as they introduced them. That was when I began putting my money into other power tool brands.
This latest escapade is just another example of a company that can’t get out of its own way.
Mike
If I wasn’t confused before reading this article, I sure as hell am now! Good thing there are plenty of alternatives, and too bad that the death knell seems to be sounding for Craftsman…
Matt
No way would SBD be making that for Sears. Sears would have to pay for it, why would SBD just not give them the new V20 stock instead if that were the case? This only serves to hurt SBD… Sears is just trying to make a buck off of marketing confusion for one more holiday season IMO. This stuff better not get to Amazon.. The sooner Sears is gone, the better. Lowe’s is my new Sears. Never in a million years did I think I would say that. Though I’m still waiting for the V20 USA brushless stuff to get in stock at our store. That and the new 3000 series toolboxes. We still don’t have either.
satch
Matt, I hear you with the Lowes vs Sears thing. I never thought I would say it either but I do. The FASTER this ends the better. I just hope the little Napoleon running Sears into the ground doesn’t get his way by being the de facto owner of Kenmore and/or what’s left of the licensee Sears/Craftsman stuff after the ship runs aground.
Stealth13
Take a look at harbor freight. Four things going on here: first, they abandoned traditional sears model numbers telling you the manufacturer. But iirc they did that with Bolton too, and both model #s started with c, so I can’t completely rule out sbd involvement here. Second: i want to see someone take a harbor freight drill in to sears to compare, I bet it’s the same. Sure looks the same. Third: this is dishonest and a clear attempt by sears to make some quick cash from unsuspecting customers. It is bad for the new craftsman. Fourth: this had to be thrown together quickly by sears to steal some sbd sales, so it has to be an existing design that’s brand engineered by a Chinese manufacturer and easy to purchase. Unless it really is sbd. But that would be illogical for them to make if it isn’t compatible. And it sure doesn’t look compatible.
Sad to say, but let’s hope people just don’t bother with sears. I want craftsman to come back. They had a product that, imo, is missing from the market now
Steve
As I’ve read the article and comments I had an aha moment. I don’t care. I pretty much quit shopping at Sears a long decade or so ago and don’t need them anymore. There are too many better places to shop. It is sort of a shame that an iconic store is going down but I don’t miss Western Auto, Montgomery Wards, or GI Joe’s either. (well Joe’s a little still) I still use some old Craftsman hand tools but their battery operated power tools have always been bad. My local Lowe’s is getting about as bad as Sears but there is a good Home Depot just another 10 miles down the road. None of them have done anything to “earn” my customer loyalty so I shop where I please and my online buying has increased dramatically. Amazon Prime and Taylor Tool are getting most of my business that doesn’t need a tool in my hand today.
Steve
That would be Tyler Tool for the non-dyslexic.
CT
There are now THREE 20vMax Craftsman Battery designs
Craftsman Bolt-On (B&D clone)
2018 Sears Craftsman (new crappy combo kit)
2018 Lowe’s Craftsman (new SBD design)
Just stay away from anything that says DieHard on it and you’ll be fine.
ken
Forget Sears/Craftsman entirely. Go get a Porter Cable instead.Well made and a good price. Craftsman has been nothing but junk for years. More thanks to the
venture capitalists who buy up good companies just for the name and then
destroy them. Why so few good paying blue collar jobs left in the US? Simple,
Wall Street!
Stuart
Many of the new Craftsman tools look to be adapted from Porter Cable designs. You might not realize it, but Porter Cable and new Craftsman power tools are both made by Stanley Black & Decker.
MT_Noob
Porter Cable will never get another nickel from me. After buying into their 18v lithium line and getting a few devices, they suddenly switched to 20v and abandoned me. Not cool. PC is dead to me.
MT_Noob
Oops, just realized my PC rant is a bit unfair. Other people might have a better experience than I did. So please don’t take offense if you are a PC fan. There are enough brands to go around for everyone.
Justin
I totally agree with you, I bought into the whole 18v line and now I cannot buy batteries anymore 🙁 How do they still sell brand new NiCad batteries for 18v but not 18v Lithium???
CT
Cost/profit numbers just don’t add up to keep supporting Lithium batteries when sales numbers decrease year by year.
CT
A lot of people felt that the 18v line was a downgrade from the 19.2 series. SBD still wanted PC to be a pro-grade brand so the 20v line was created and the 18v line was retired. You can’t really blame PC for listening and making changes based on customer feedback.
wittle
Seems like a really stupid plan to stage your big comeback with a mediocre 20V line in an already overcrowded space. Every budget is well covered by pretty damn good tools.
Lowes is not going to save them either, where I often feel like i have stepped into an episode of the walking dead in the aftermath of a hurricane.
What there is a demand for… affordable USA-Made quality hand tools.
ya know, *what craftsman was known for*.
at least when I was growing up in the 80s it was… I was in wisconsin, and we all used craftsman on our bikes, rc cars, and old beaters. they weren’t the best, but they held their own.
Not that its an easily solvable niche in our global economy, but if they did, reviewers and bloggers would latch onto it and the word would spread.
As it is they will never cut into ryobi and ridgid. from youtube to homedepot, there just isn’t any space. I feel like their marketeers have no clue about the tool market.
Tanner
This is exactly what I thought the other day when looking at what already has launched at Lowe’s. Good point.
Toolfreak
I’d guess SBD is just doing this initial stuff to get SOMEthing out there in retail before the goliday season and make some money back on their investment, hence the sticking Craftsman on Porter+Cable tactic and doing the same with lots of other Stanley/Irwin/etc. products.
Most people don’t know any better, something red with the Craftsman name on it is a Craftsman product.
Hopefully the next few years reveal a 100% USA-made hand tool lineup with the Craftsman name on them, plus who knows what else, but we shall see.
Raoul
Slightly off topic, anyone know why there appears to be 3 parts to the housing of the new SBD Craftsman batteries? I believe all SBD batteries have 2 parts to the battery shell but these Craftsman ones have a 3rd part bolted on. You can see in the pictures there is a red bottom, black top, and then a 3rd gray piece bolted on top of that.
Toolfreak
It’s a black bottom, red top, then a little gray piece behind the lock/release switch, but I’d guess the gray piece is just cosmetic, probably a filler piece of plastic to fill in a space in the plastic drill housing.
If it’s functional at all, it’s likely a way to keep SBD/Porter+Cable batteries from just sliding into the Craftsman tools and/or vise versa. This is actually common in electronics as a stupidly simple and low-cost way to make essentially the same product but make the replaceable part (in this case, the battery) physically impossible to use in anything other than the same branded tool, at least without modification, which is way beyond your average consumer.
Toolfreak
I had to call Apex Tools directly today, to get some missing parts for a tool set I just bought. Their standard intro message when you call now says what products they make branded as Craftsman, and to call the Craftsman 1-800 number (SBD’s 1-800 number for Craftsman, that is) for anything/everything else, but doesn’t call attention to the fact SBD owns the brand.
Like I mentioned before, this is going to get REALLY ugly when SBD is making and selling the same hand tools that Apex is for Sears.
You can be sure that lots of customers are going to try to exchange SBD Craftsman at Sears and Apex Craftsman at Lowe’s.
As far as I can tell, Sears has no plan in place to handle this, and doesn’t even have a policy of not replacing SBD-made Craftsman stuff yet. Lowe’s has a formal policy of replacing anything they have in stock under the Craftsman warranty, but everything else gets the customer redirected to call the 1-800 Craftsman number.
Pretty sure a lot of customers are going to be unhappy to be directed to call a number to deal with replacing a tool, especially if they expected a replacement on the spot like at Sears.
I think this is the serious threat to the brand now – losing a lot of customers with expectations of the brand based on how Sears did business in the past, without having the depth and breadth of the full Craftsman lineup from SBD. Stanley/Gearwrench and even truck brand customers will know enough about getting a replacement by calling a number, but your average I-can-just-take-it-to-sears-and-get-a-new-one customer isn’t going to handle that as well.
ToolOfTheTrade
Here we go again with the same he said she said BS without hearing it from the horses mouth. You said it yourself. Hearsay & presumptions. Which is exactly what this is all about because none of us know the details of the deal & I highly doubt that their lawyers are going to tell you. Sbd are the ones to blame for this whole situation. They were the ones dumb enough to let sears continue manufacturing and selling craftsman tools for 15 more years. But here’s where the complete lack of compitent thought on the part of sbd really shines, if you just bought a brand from someone else, and that someone else nearly ruined the reputation of your purchase, wouldn’t you want to distance yourself as far away from them as possible & their damaged reputation? In other words, why did sbd decide to go with the same colors that were established & used by Sears? Or Milwaukee for that matter. Even more puzzling is why would sbd elect to use the same exact logo that was created by Sears? What an inept design department sbd has. They really put a lot of effort into unoriginality. Wtf are they thinking? I hope that this isn’t indicative of the effort that sbd is going to put into craftsman tools. But so far that’s what it’s looking like. Reminds me of porter cable and the effort they put into them. It would be one thing if Sears was out of business & on the way to being long forgotten, but that is not the case. Who’s craftsman are they selling and where ? Who cares.
Curtis
Exactly. I just can’t see the reasoning here. It’s a brand that now has negative connotations to consumers. Sure, we all grew up with it and know that 40 years ago the Craftsman name implied a decent level of quality, but that hasn’t been the case for over 20 years now. Too many of us have owned third rate Chinese tools with the Craftsman name on them in recent years.
It’s like trying to resurrect the Homelite brand. It’s simply been too long since they made a quality product and even back in their heyday they weren’t the best.
1ToolUser
I don’t know the details of Stanley Black & Decker’s arrangement with Lowe’s.
I do know, however, that the battery issue will frustrate some people.
Craftsman is a legendary brand but my personal opinion is SBD needs to communicate a plan for this to Lowe’s employees, soon.
Some FREE shirts with Craftsman’s logo on the sleeve would also be nice. 🙂
JoeM
If I’m being totally honest here… I’m not sure why Craftsman is even a topic anymore. Other than Nostalgia, there’s no shame in just moving on to a currently maintained brand, and accepting that the old Craftsman tools are just no longer supported.
Yeah, you invested huge amounts of money in the line years ago. But it’s not your fault the brand is dead, it’s the fault of deluded executives that have dive-bombed the brand into oblivion.
Let them die in peace already. They had a good run, long ago. This is just… painful to watch now.
Toolfreak
Craftsman is still THE most well known and trusted brand of tools, not just among people who have and use them, but among people who don’t even use tools that much.
Whether it’s Sears or SBD, the Craftsman brand is going to be around for a LONG time in one form or another, so it’s worth reporting on and learning about.
Jeff
Can confirm, this Sears drill/impact is not made by SBD. I know because I work for SBD.
Bob
To avoid this confusion, SBD should allow sears to sell their Craftsman tools instead of selling a different/incompatible versions. It looks like Sears sells some of the same USA made Craftsman tool boxes that Lowes carries.
Christopher
This was my thought when the whole V20 line was announced. That way there is a natural upgrade from the C3 line. But now…. not we have a cluster of confusion. Sears is gonna try to push this half baked attempt while SBD push a decent line. Problem is is that people still associate craftsman with sears. So they see that fancy new tool system on a commercial and where do they go to buy? Then sears sells them this garbage. I still believe the agreement should have been more sell your old stock, we manufacture all craftsman now, you can continue to sell craftsman in stores with additional royalties.
CT
I don’t think the problem is SBD letting Sears sell the new Craftsman. It probably has more to do with Sears not being able to afford the new products.
Robin
I read an article online somewhere that District Managers for Sears we’re having problems getting Kenmore appliances from traditional channels (i.e. Whirlpool) due to upper management making it difficult to acquire product.
So the district managers went to different sources themselves to get product for the stores. Apparently this is how LG started making more Kenmore appliances than they ever had in the past.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this would be the way that tool departments get their tools. Bypassing traditional purchasing and buying directly from another source. Which is where SBD may come into play.
Scott Foster
Disctrict Managers don’t have the power/authority to source products, that is done soley by the buying agents at Corporate…
At best they could pull inventory from other markets and send it to their stores to fill gaps.
Paul Sanchez
Sears is selling SBD Craftsman toolboxes. My local sears store just closed, and I scored 8 new boxes and a couple of workbenches for almost nothing. While assembling them, I noticed that they are stamped “Craftsman is a registered trademark of Stanley Black and Decker”
Raoul
Would that be due to sbd buying Waterloo who makes the boxes for Sears Craftsman?
Tim
I’ll stick with Milwaukee and avoid the confusion.
JoeM
Same for Me with DeWALT. All this continued drama over Craftsman is just tragic at this point.
CT
If you guys are buying Milwaukee and DeWalt, you really aren’t the target audience for Craftsman anyway.
Gordon Geco
If SBD made the new Lowe’s/Craftsman tools backwards compatible with Dewalt batteries, plus partner with other tool co’s like they did with Graco “powered by Dewalt”…. this would make The Dewalt battery the industry standard (Duracell).
Curtis
That’s really what we need: an industry standard battery.
They wouldn’t necessarily have to be identical, but batteries of the same voltage should be interchangeable.
Toolfreak
The problem with that is, everyone wants THEIR battery to be the standard.
You’re never going to get any tool company to agree to let some other manufacturers battery be the standard they have to manufacture to.
There could be some kind of action on that front with, say, a consumer agency that had some sort of power to force those sort of things to happen for the benefit of consumers, but that just brings in negative comments about governments and regulation and it all falls apart shortly after being thought of.
Stuart
https://toolguyd.com/why-wont-power-tool-brands-standardize-their-battery-packs/
Tools are designed to work with battery packs of measured capabilities. Pair a lower-spec’ed battery to the tool, and you’ll get subpar performance. Are people going to blame the cheap low-end battery they attached to a premium tool, or the premium tool?
I’ve heard and seen enough complaints about AA or AAA alkaline batteries not providing enough power or runtime to cameras, camera flashes, high output flashlights, and other such things. In those cases, rechargeable NiMH or lithium batteries are recommended, but those recommendations are often ignored in favor of spending less on alkaline batteries.
The same would happen to power tools.
You can’t use a Canon dSLR battery in a Nikon camera. You can’t play XBOX games on a Playstation. Back before brands shifted to custom shaped LiPo battery packs, you couldn’t use a Samsung phone battery in a Motorola phone.
Sometimes reasons don’t make sense or are disagreeable, but other times there are good reasons behind proprietary standards.
Patrick
This clusterf!@# is not just Sears problem, it’s Stanley’s. Probably Lowes as well. Stanley should have worked a deal which had Sears selling the same merchandise and fully compatible warranty terms between all Craftsman dealers. You should have been able to buy a set from Lowes, go add on to it at Sears, and potentially take it in for a warranty replacement somewhere else.
If the Craftsman brand is still worth anything for SBD to have purchased it, it seems silly to ignore the Sears sales channel which is the only thing that had kept it alive.
I don’t think it’s even a good move for Sears. I know they hope to source the tools cheaper than SBD, but if everything was the same product it might actually have driven some traffic to Sears. If I bought a Craftsman set from Lowes, I might actually stop at Sears and buy a replacement socket, additional tool, or something else.
Lowes has done a somewhat decent job of coming out with a solid Kobalt line of both power tools and hand tools. They also seem to be aggressively displaying Craftsman in the store, with Craftsman boxes taking over the main isles and Kobalt remaining in its section of the tool isle for the most part. Hopefully that will work out for them, but I think with the mess that has been created… it was probably a mistake to go “all in” with Craftsman when you built a brand from the ground up with decent tools and support, only lacking a bit of brand recognition.
Dave
And now they’re in litigation over it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sears-stanley-black/sears-is-sued-over-craftsman-brand-idUSKCN1QO031
Michael D Arnold
I’m not buying anything from Sears powertool related, nor am I buying Craftsman tools from Lowe’s. Stanley Black and Decker bought the Craftsman name. I’m still not buying it.
David Lynn
I just got back from Sears and Lowes. I had purchased a 20V drill and driver set from Sears for my dad for Father’s Day. For his birthday I bought a oscillating tool from Lowes. The batteries are NOT compatible. They look similar but will not work. The line at Lowes offers more tools than Sears as well. Took the drill back to Sears and bought both at Lowes.
Frank D
Thank you for sharing your experience and reminding me.
Craig
Hello, my name is Craig and I sell Craftsman tools for Sears. You are obviously correct in saying that Sears Craftsman 20V are not compatible with the Craftsman 20V you would find at Ace, Lowe’s, or Menards. However, I am looking at an official Sears merchandise flow bulletin, and the Sears Craftsman 20V are made by Stanley Black and Decker. If I could post a photo, I would. I will readily admit that Sears Craftsman has some catching up to do, but the new Sears 20V is certainly better than the 19.2V.
Feel free to ask me any questions, as I’m confident that I am more informed than the salesman mentioned in the article. Craftsman forever!
Stuart
Craftsman 20V Max Bolt-On was made by Stanley Black & Decker. SBD has said that they are NOT making the new Sears Craftsman 20V Max DieHard battery cordless power tools, which are not compatible with Sears’ Craftsman 20V Max Bolt-On tools, or Stanley Black & Decker Craftsman V20 cordless power tools.
I very highly doubt that SBD would design a brand new cordless power tool platform for Sears’ licensed Craftsman brand, especially given their need to develop and launch new Craftsman tools for themselves.
When SBD made Craftsman 20V Max Bolt-On tools for Sears, the tools were compatible with their Black & Decker Matrix line, and their batteries compatible with Black & Decker 20V Max. The new Sears Craftsman 20V Max line doesn’t look compatible with any of Stanley Black & Decker’s current brands.
I have seen zero indication that SBD is making these tools for Sears, not to mention SBD’s outright denial.
https://toolguyd.com/craftsman-v20-sears-craftsman-20v-compatibility/
Stanley Black & Decker is not supplying Sears with their CRAFTSMAN 20V tools and 20V Diehard batteries.
Craig
Please cite SBD’s “outright denial”.
Stuart
Full details are via the link in my previous comment, with that information coming from Jeff Doehne, General Manager for the Craftsman brand at Stanley Black & Decker, communicated to me via SBD PR.
Why would SBD Craftsman launch their all-new 20V line and then support a competing and incompatible line at Sears at the save time?
Craig
That is very odd. Obviously, the V20 and 20V lines are very different from each other and not interchangeable, but from everything I can find, the Sears 20V line isn’t made by Positec or any of the other usual suspects, but rather the Black & Decker division of SBD.
Scott Foster
I can attest that there are differences… I bought the drill/driver combo set from Sears website, then decided to order the 4.0a battery thinking I could use the same charger, etc…. No can do, the “throat” of the 4.0a battery is to wide to be inserted into the tools or the charger, so then I bought a charger just for the battery…
Recently having misplaced my driver, I decided to take advantage of a sale at Lowes and bought another set of the drill/driver w/2 batteries. When I got home, I realized that my 4.0a battery worked in these and the charger/batteries were interchangeable, just not with the set I had from Sears… The look of the drill/drivers are different too…
What a pain, I’ve bought Craftsman tools (19.2v) for years, the batteries were all interchangeable, even when the Lithium ion batteries came out I could still use the same tools, etc. Lesson learned, buy all your Craftsman cordless tools from the same store even if multiple retailers carry them… And if you buy them on eBay, be prepared for them not to fit your power tools…
dstblj 52
SBD craftsman the stuff that doesn’t say diehard is the better tool line with more long term support, and is not tied to a retailer whose survival chances are pretty minimal, so if your going to choose which line buy it anywhere but sears