The US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) still has not issued a final ruling that could hugely affect the portable table saw market.
Basically, they have been working to determine whether every table saw must feature SawStop-like safety tech – active injury mitigation involving flesh detection and blade brake tech.
While the US CPSC has not yet issued a final rule on the matter, they also haven’t abandoned it; the rulemaking has been in the “final rule stage” for the past 4 years.
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The CPSC has provided few updates over the past few years, with the most recent one stating that their staff intends to submit a final rule briefing package to the Commission by the end of September 2023.
What most people don’t realize is that the potential for table saws to require SawStop-like safety tech never went away.
20 years ago (2003), SawStop’s founders, including Steve Gass, petitioned the US CPSC, requesting that the agency “issue performance standards for a system to reduce or prevent injuries from contact with the blade of a table saw”.
The issue was open for public input two notable times since then, around 2011 and again in 2017.
At the end of all of that, there was a notice of proposed rulemaking that would “establish a performance standard requiring table saws to limit the depth of cut to 3.5mm when a test probe, acting as a surrogate for a human body/finger, contacts the table saw’s spinning blade.”
In 2019, it was put up to a vote as to whether the CPSC would follow staff recommendations to:
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conduct concurrently, a follow-up NEISS special study and table saw exposure survey, to collect additional information on whether the voluntary standard effectively reduces blade-contact injuries on table saws.
The CPSC voted against this, and to instead:
Direct staff to prepare a Final Rule on a Safety Standard Addressing Blade-Contact Injuries on Table Saws
I believe that the rulemaking has simply been on hold because of significant concerns as to whether SawStop and their new parent company will be fair in licensing patented active injury mitigation tech to other tool companies.
Tooltechnic Systems, Festool’s parent company, acquired SawStop in 2017.
In a US CPSC 2019 report that preceded the vote:
TTS has stated that it is open to the possibility of licensing the AIM technology should the Commission issue a mandatory rule requiring AIM technology on all table saws sold in the U.S.9
However, in a subsequent communication with Fabian Klopfer, CEO of TTS, on June 1, 2019, TTS indicated that “given the breadth of intellectual property that has been developed by SawStop, it is no longer a simple matter to say what such a license would or should include and what structure it would be.”
And, with emphasis my own:
The uncertainty surrounding the status of SawStop’s (TTS) patents, the lack of information on parties’ willingness to enter into licensing arrangements, or on the acceptable terms under which parties would enter into such agreements largely remain unchanged since the NPR. As discussed above, the existence of the patents would affect manufacturers’ ability and costs to meet the proposed table saw standard.
In 2017, US courts ruled in favor of SawStop in their infringement suit against Bosch, resulting in the Bosch Reaxx being barred from the market. The patents that Bosch was found to be in violation of have since expired.
Additional SawStop patents have recently expired, with more expiring soon.
SawStop’s patent on a “replaceable brake mechanism for power equipment” (US7610836B2) looks to expire next month (October 2023), and “logic control for fast-acting safety system” (US7600455B2) expires in mid-2024.
Some of SawStop’s major patents started expiring a few years ago, such as “table saw with improved safety system” (US7350444B2), which expired in late 2021.
I have been checking documents published by the US Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs for the past few years. Every year, there would be no update, only a note saying that “staff is working on a final rule briefing package,” with a placeholder ETA of September for that year.
Things changed with the most recent updates. 4 years after the CPSC directed its staff to prepare a final rule, it now says:
Staff intends to submit a final rule briefing package to the Commission in fiscal year 2023.
(The US government fiscal year 2023 ends on 9/30/23.)
I have been following up on the US CPSC proposed rulemaking activities for years. They haven’t decided against mandating SawStop-style safety tech – I believe they’ve just been deferring the decision or implementation until a time when it wouldn’t require power tool companies to pay potentially exorbitant licensing fees to SawStop.
Once the staff sends a final rule briefing to the Commission, it might still take longer for a final rule to be decided upon and published.
There’s also the possibility that the fiscal year 2023 (9/30/23) ETA is missed and simply replaced with “fiscal year 2024” with the next update. They’ve done that before.
Still, it seemed important to remind everyone that the rulemaking has not yet been defeated yet.
Up until around 2017, the rulemaking was in the “proposed rule stage.” It went to “long-term actions” in 2018. Since 2019, it’s been in the “final rule stage.”
In my opinion, once enough SawStop patents expire, to where competing brands can launch table saws with their own safety tech without having to pay license fees, that’s when we’ll see the CPSC issue a final ruling.
Related Public Documents:
Index for Rule 3041-AC31 (Actions, Dates, Supporting Documents)
Semiannual Regulatory Agenda 7/27/23 (Final Rule Stage Announcement on Regulatory Options for Table Saws [3041–AC31])
NEISS Table Saw Special Study Briefing Package 2017 (PDF)
Christian Reed (REEKON)
It would be great to see more innovation in this space as perhaps one of the most prominent and impactful safety advances in stationary tools. I am also excited to see more of this on battery powered saws which seem to be problematic without the earth ground that the plug in models have.
Bob
The last time Bosch tried with the Reaxx (completely different safety method from SawStop) they got litigated out of the US market by SawStop.
SawStop and Steve Gass can go screw themselves. I will never buy a single product from them as long they push for this crap.
You know what Volvo did when they invented the 3-point seatbelt? They opened up the patent so everyone can use it. You know what they could have done but didn’t do? Keep the patent to themselves, push for legislation to ban all other sealtbelt mechanisms, and then try to license the tech out to every other automobile company. Oh and when a different company comes up with a different method to achieve the same results, litigate them out of the country.
Reflector
Sawstop knows exactly what they’re doing in regards to bullying the table saw market while lobbying the USG. For this reason I refuse to buy a Sawstop and commit myself to safe usage practices as there’s no excuse for making dangerous cuts on a table saw with my own life and limb. Bosch’s method was clever with how it avoids destroying the blade on retraction and seemed to be a different enough mechanism from Sawstop but that didn’t stop them from suing Bosch into submission while continuing the aggressive marketing push.
JORGE
I agree with you. I will NEVER buy a saw stop product.
ToolGuyDan
Late-stage capitalism is a helluva drug, ain’t it? Fun fact: if Volvo had made this decision as a modern US corporation, its leadership could’ve been sued by the shareholders for not pursuing maximum corporate value above all else.
Our political and economic philosophies, and the laws we’ve written—or not written—to support them, have inevitably produced an outcome where we’re literally trading fingers for money. I am baffled as to why everyone thinks this is a good thing, but that Gass is a bad guy for doing what he’s literally required to do by putting profits over people[-‘s limbs].
PTBRULES
There is no such thing as “late-stage” capitalism.
BigTimeTommy
Lol you’re living in it.
Ishan
How about this circular argument: the denial of acknowledging late stage capitalism is itself the belief people living in it have.
Also, patents make sense for high r&d cost goods (think drugs). However, SawStop going after others even after patent expiration is just greedy behavior.
Josh
its funny you think that having govt involved in corporations is capitalism. Im not sure when the US was unfettered capitalism but it hasn’t been since I have been alive (43 years) real capitalism doesn’t get bailed out by tax payers, doesnt have govt crush competition. I could go on and on but you get the point. dont trash capitalism, trash the US government.
BigTimeTommy
Full agreement. Never giving money to sawstop or Steve Gass.
Tool Junkie
Sawstop owns the tech, however Gaus sold it in 2017 to TTL, AKA parent company of Festool. They sued Bosch, to keep what they had bought.
Tool Junkie
Sawstop owns the tech, however Gass sold it in 2017 to TTL, AKA parent company of Festool. They sued Bosch, to keep what they had bought.
Lance
It’s all under TTS, so no to Festool for me too.
fred
Hard to definitively know what rulemaking will come – but accident statistics are probably still on the side of rulemaking requiring an active safety system. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen any local contractors (usually cutting out on lawns) using saws with blade guards in place. I suppose the same may happen with active safety systems if they can be disabled – and you may want to disable to allow for cutting wet wood or other material that might trigger a false response. Once most of the patents expire – I think that rules will follow. But as Christian points out – what to do with cordless saws will require some innovation.
Munklepunk
Sawstop has a switch that turns the safety off for wet wood.
TomD
I wonder how many sawstops are run with that always on.
Butt
Probably zero, as you have to enable it each time you turn on the saw and it’s faster not to.
kent_skinner
That’s not an option.
Kent h
It’s a hassle to disable it and not worth it to do it every time you start the saw to make a cut.
Frank D
I think the majority of people would like more safety features and prefer to have a table saw with a reasonable cost safety upgrade; but have absolutely been soured by the whole sawstop patent and appeal to have it made mandatory and litigation against other solutions thing. Plus the promises of a low cost jobsite never really materialized … or for $1000. So great!
If it was really about safety; they could have promoted and licensed the technology, brought the cost down, and we’d all have been looking for a saw with sawstop, maybe, or it would be next to standard … just like at one point we wanted ABS breaking, airbags, SRS systems, traction control, backup cameras, …
ToolGuyDan
Almost all of the examples you named were mandated by the government over the HOWLS of the car industry, because they’d been selling those things as options or intentionally leaving them out of low-end cars to lure buyers upmarket.
SRS in particular was delayed for years because an influential “pro-business” Senator claimed he was convinced it was a cash-grab by the makers of SRS systems. If you can believe such an inexplicable coincidence, that Senator both received generous campaign donations from the Big Three, and suddenly and markedly changed his tune when an internal Detroit study concluded that integrating SRS in every car would drive up marketable margins due to efficiencies of scale and increased perception of safety by buyers.
Doresoom
Cars are much more expensive than a table saw, and have more room to absorb expensive features in their overall price.
Add a $100 safety feature to a $20,000 car? Not a huge deal, a 0.5% increase.
But add a $100 safety feature to a $200 table saw and now you’ve got a 50% increase.
Franco Calcagni
Like ToolGuyDan states, these were turned into laws by the government. When this happens, you are creating an industry because every new car has to have them.
I remember when airbags came out. They were only on high end cars. At one point there was a big market for stolen airbags. They cost, at the time, $2000, breaking into a car for the airbag was a thing as they could easily get $200 to $500 for them. Once they were law, MFRing of them went through the roof and the price quickly came down. Nobody stole airbags anymore as the are just over a $100 new, no market for stolen ones.
Take as an example, the automatic parallel park system, or another which has come, and gone, and now come back, the 4 wheel steering system. These 2 examples and probably hundreds of others which don’t come to mind, do not have the “saves lives” features of the ones you mention, so governments are not going to mandate a parallel parking system.
I know many people that would gladly take the parking feature over some of the mandated safety features. So safety is good, but not everyone gives a darn about safety features
Munklepunk
Too many construction workers are generally stupid. The amount of time I have seen them take safety features off and throw them away, riving knives, blade guards on circular saws, safeties on nail guns, anything else that could possibly get in their way. They don’t even think about it they just do it without testing or trying. I know people who pull airbags out of cars and unplug ABS brakes because sometime someplace they heard a rumor that somebody was killed by them. I’ve had to kick guys off jobs because they’re absolutely refused to wear safety glasses and guards while cutting rebar with grinders, safety squints aren’t a thing. I wasn’t even the boss.
Jim Felt
“Safety squints”?! That’s a great name for all kinds of dozy or worse conduct.
Champs
Until then, I will just have to keep thinking about each cut and never rushing it. My peace of mind is worth something, but it can wait for a more attainable price with the DeWalt fence.
Now if only we had the SawStop of ladders. I’d buy that in a heartbeat.
TomD
The sawstop of ladders is scaffolding.
Alex
The US government should force them to open the patent completely then mandate the safety tech.
William Adams
This would be a non-issue if all tablesaw related injuries were evaluated by a jury of shop teachers.
Some of the best advice I ever got — before throwing the on switch of a power tool count to 10 quietly to yourself on all your fingers as you consider the entire sequence of operations and all the forces involved and all the ways in which things could go wrong, remembering that you want to be able to repeat that counting in the same way after you turn the power off.
OldDominionDIYer
It should remain an option period. I dislike a “nanny” state where our safety is dictated rather than allowing each individual to decide for one’s self. There have been craftsman operating table saws safely without this Tech for decades.
James
Agree. The tech is great for those who want it. Do we have to ban chainsaws and everything else that may be dangerous? Take the time to learn the tool, and take the time to use the tool safely.
I do remember in grade 6, a guy in my class got a dozen beer for his 12th birthday (parents wanted to show off their math skills??). After drinking a few (I wasn’t invited to the party), he went out to the shed and turned on the table saw, promptly removing 3 fingers…
Munklepunk
Do you remove the seatbelt from you car or use it because you understand that accidents do happen no matter how much preparation you do.
ToolGuyDan
It’s worse than that with folks who break out phrases like “nanny state”, though. Because the moment an accident does happen, you can bet your last dollar that they’ll be on the line to the gubmint for their “disability money”, to say nothing of their (subsidized) ride to the (subsidized) hospital, the years of (subsidized) training of their surgeon, the government-initiated study that led to the surgery being recognized as having the best outcomes, and the inspectors making sure that their IV drugs don’t contain corn starch and that their nurses’ shoes aren’t going to slip when they’re handing the surgeon the scalpel. And then if they lose their job they’ll just pay for it all with Medicaid, or they’ll have the hospital write it off so that everyone else’s bill goes up by a few bucks that year to make the books balance.
Meanwhile, us poor schlubs who wear seatbelts on the road and don’t set off fireworks while holding them in our teeth get no choice but to pay, for many, many years, for this one person’s “freedom”. So here’s what I say; you’re welcome to your freedom. But only if activating your table saw requires you to scan the barcode on your $1 million insurance policy to pay for all of that stuff, not a penny of which goes to you individually. Let’s see how long everyone still want the ability to make bad choices when one actually has to step up to the counter for all the externalities of those choices.
Bob
The answer to government overreach is not more government overreach. You can’t fix stupid or legislate against it. I lament the disintegration of personal responsibility. The rugged individual mindset was a quintessential American archetype. We need more of that.
Also subsidize surgeons? really is that a thing? who’s getting free med school? Quick anecdote, I asked a friend of mine (spine surgeon). As far as he knew that wasn’t a thing. Unless you were in the military and that sure is not free either.
OldDominionDIYer
Agree, one of the hallmarks of our country is the individual right to make our own decisions good or bad! Helps weed out some too!
David Z
Actually, the government pays for a large portion of residencies and also has some control over the number of them. You can google and read up on how Congress and Medicaid are involved.
OldDominionDIYer
Some of us learned from a very young age about personal responsibility. I definitely don’t need knuckleheads telling ME what I can and cannot do, but of course you enjoy making decisions for others. I earned and pay my own medical insurance, car insurance, home insurance and work darn hard for a living so I don’t appreciate anyone infringing on my right to make up my own mind. Just because you’re scared, doesn’t mean I have to live in fear!
Munklepunk
Having safety features and living in fear are two completely separate issues. Take a moment or twenty and look at all of the safety equipment you use every day and don’t notice. Traffic lights, abs brakes, brakes in general, blade guards on saws, seat belts, steel toed boots, the gaps under all doors for proper ventilation, standards in building codes, city water filtration, distillation in sanitary liquids, that giant red shut off button for tools, that tiny hole on passage locks, tinted welding glasses.
But you can’t be told what to do.
OldDominionDIYer
@Munklepunk: I am not against safety, of course you would make that ridiculous assumption, how childish. I’m against being FORCED to adopt something that is NOT necessary. You do you and leave me OUT of it. God Bless America where we can have our own opinions and not have to worry about what others want. You want it then pay for it, I got no problem with that. That company is not deserving of my money, and I won’t lose sleep over it.
David Z
@OldDominion many of the things he mentions were considered unnecessary when they were introduced. What one day seems unnecessary or intrusive later can seem obvious and natural.
Adam
I’m a carpenter in England, England is health and safety nanny state, it’s just ridiculous a lot of jobs don’t even allow table saws, because their considered to dangerous , because people take the guards off etc, I’ve lived in America and it’s much less regulated.
Chris D
Thanks for the deep dive into this topic. I appreciate this style of article.
Stuart
Thanks, I appreciate it!
This topic was tough, as the CPSC activity is buried under multiple layers.
The decision on the 2019 vote, for instance, was impossible to find until a very helpful CPSC communications/PR person pointed me in the right direction.
I’ve been following things for years and only recently saw the first signs of activity by the CPSC in a very long time. It’s impossible to know what it means, but at the least I thought it’s still interesting that the rulemaking process hasn’t been defeated and remains a looming possibility.
JohnF
For all of those clamoring for the government to require saw stops, remember that Europeans can’t buy table saws that accept a dado stack.
It’s easy to agree with the government forcing other people to do things as long as it doesn’t impact you ..
JD
It’s easier to break out the router for dados anyway.
Jim Felt
The pesky European regulators also forced the highest market cap company in history to drop their silly Lightning cord and default to the universal USB C protocol.
It ain’t all bad.
Bonnie
That’s a manufacturer issue. The EU law is that a blade must stop within a certain amount of time, and manufacturers would rather leave out dado compatibility than include stronger braking in the motor. Customers don’t press the issue because there are plenty of other ways to cut a dado.
BigTimeTommy
Like someone else mentioned its because manufacturers are too cheap/greedy to make saws safe for dados.
European legislation goes overboard sometimes (lol @ knife laws in the UK) but it’s better than the American style of “Corporations get to do whatever they want because greed is good”
OldDominionDIYer
Move to Europe if you love it so much, I’ll take my freedom to choose anyday! See ya!
BigTimeTommy
I’d love to but European countries don’t want blue collar workers moving there from America. The US has the most lax immigration policies of all the wealthy western countries. All part of the scam to keep wages down.
David Z
If that approach is valid, perhaps moving to a region with no labor or safety laws would fit you best. Parts of Africa and Asia force none of that on you. See Ya!
(Sorry, Stuart. I’m letting him get to me.)
Adam
I’m English, I lived in America Massachusetts, I would much rather work in the carpentry trade in America than England, it’s much better and less regulated, I love America, England is just too regulated.
OldDominionDIYer
Bingo! Seems like some like to speak about things they are not really familiar with I have spent time in Europe, including England/Scotland and Italy, though they are nice and have benefits they’re not America! For all our faults I’m perfectly happy right here without any foolish mandated safety tech adding costs to already expensive tools!
Adam
American carpenters have more freedom, we have so many ridiculous stupid health and safety regulations, I miss America 🇺🇸
Ct451
Doctors are pretty good at reattaching fingers now because of all the accidents.
Jared
It sounds like a curious move by Tooltechnic Systems not to clarify the structure of it’s proposed licensing scheme. E.g. if that’s the reason the Commission is reluctant to make the technology mandatory AND the patents are approaching their expiration dates, then Tooltechnic might run out of time to capitalize on the SawStop IP entirely.
I suppose they could be balancing the competitive advantage of being the only company able to integrate the tech into their products (for now) versus the profit from a licensing scheme. Hard to evaluate that from the outside.
Bob
Sounds like Bosch should be able to re-introduce the reaxes tech as the patents that caused all the legal drama have expired.
I like the Bosch portable tablesaw’s. Their rolling base are sweet. However, I’m holding out for a Dewalt 2 x 60V, 10 inch portable saw that’ll take a small dado stack.
I don’t think anyone has a 10 inch battery saw yet?
OldDominionDIYer
I have the M18 Milwaukee table saw and it takes 6.5 in dado’s
CoBlue
Metabo HPT / Hikoki has a 10″ 36v cordless table saw. I’ve no experience with their table saws, although I’ve heard good things about the corded version.
Bob
Thinking more about this on my coffee break I think this government entity was stalling for time waiting for the saw stop patent(s) to expire and then they’re gonna mandate it. Government moves slow so could be a few years out.
I would think they have to set a deadline to allow companies to sell off available stock and then come out with a compliant model. We will probably all have a decent amount of warning before this becomes law. Plus there’s always eBay and the used market. If it does go through hopefully Bosch re-releases theirs. I would definitely buy one of theirs. I think it’s a superior tech and I’m not a big fan of the tactics of the former saw stop founder.
Jack S
I’m holding off buying a table saw with “instant stop” safety protection until mid-2024 to see how the SawStop patents end up. I expect that table saw will be inherited, so finger safety is paramount.
What I don’t understand is: 1) The vast amount of money SawStop would have made from licensing/sub-licensing its blade stop technolgy over the past years; 2) The global market control/dominance they would have gained by doing so; and, 3) Why the US CPSC would require the specific use of SawStop’s technology vs defining and enforcing mandatory safety standards to adequately protect the public (unless politics and $$ come into play – nah, never). It would be interesting to listen-in on those related conversations within Tooltechnic Systems and the US CPSC.
Bonnie
The saw makers (at least in the US) refused to license the tech. Ryobi and Gass were in final talks to license it for their saws, but they dropped out and PTI (industry trade group representing most saw makers) later basically blacklisted him and were opposed to any negotiations. In court they objected to the SawStop tech “adding $100 or more to the price of consumer models”.
Stuart
According to other documents, some tool brands later tried to license the tech but SawStop refused to, or wouldn’t offer reasonable terms.
It’s difficult to get a clear sense of exactly what happened, but at this point all of that is moot with respect to how it could affect the industry moving forward.
William
Why hasn’t TTS/ SawStop already licensed the technology? At one point, I thought that was the original idea. Then they actually made a pretty good table saw. Honestly, if a SawStop saw was total crap, this wouldn’t really be a discussion.
When the patent expires and new brands start using it, I wonder how quality, reliability, and price will be effected. What happens if Ryobi develops their own tech but it occasionally fails. Or it has other issues preventing the operator from using the saw? I wonder if brands would start to compete on “the safest saw”.
Stuart
According to other documents, PTI member brands launched a joint venture to design their own flesh-detection and blade brake tech, but they say SawStop’s founders found out and manipulated their patent applications to bar it.
In the quote below, paragraph breaks were added for easier readability.)
According to the Power Tool Institute industry group (Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Ryobi, and others):
Tool Junkie
So, this apparently does not cover Felder or Altendorf saws that retract…
Franco Calcagni
Gass was a patent lawyer. You can be pretty sure that he covered all the bases, and anything that might come up, he would have found a way to add it.
Bob+Hinden
The SawStop patents have or are about to expire, so other manufacturers would be able to develop their own solutions.
If SawStop (TTS) wanted to leverage this, they would make the technology available for very low cost to other table saw manufacturors and sell the break cartridge replacements.
I own a SawStop PCS, it’s my third table saw. It’s the only one that I consistently use the blade guard and riving knife. The safety features work well. So far, no activations, and I have all of my fingers. I will willing to pay a bit more to keep it that way.
Eliot Truelove
It’s easy to say “Steve Gass bad” when everything that happens appears to be a money grab, but unlike the Volvo example with seatbelts, Steve Gass wasn’t a massive corporation that could absorb the loss of profit by allowing competition.
That being said: if he was reasonable with licensing and Sawstop became an established standard he would have been hailed as a genius inventor, and maybe could have even come out with his own self named “Gass” tool brand similar to Robert “Bosch” in Germany, Martin and Eugen “Hilti” in Liechtenstein, and Mosaburo “Makita” in Japan.
I just think of established tool standards like T shank Jigsaw blades, Reciprocating Saw blades, SDS plus and SDS Max, X Lock, Starlock, and others. They exist for a reason and while some are newer standards they are often deemed vastly superior by those who use them and will become the standard once they become more readily adopted.
I can’t wait till Bosch isn’t limited by Sawstop anymore and can release and license the Reaxx tech to others. It being hamstrung by TTC really left a poor taste in many people’s mouths.
Tool Junkie
I think he actually went to all the big saw manufacturers initially & offered to license the tech to them. They laughed at him and said no one would want to spend the extra money. When he could not get any companies to sign up, he went thru the expensive process of designing his own & commercial production.
The fact that his saw is well regarded, without considering the safety brake itself is a testament to their product.
Matt Rentz
First table, saws, then handheld power, tools, chainsaws, and finally kitchen scissors. Where does it all end?
David Z
I presume with larger ends on Q-tips, but the equivalent of a breathalyzer for keyboards would be good.
Ishan
By allowing an (expired) patent to still matter, we are further shifting the cost of healthcare onto society in general.
By actually letting patents get obsolete, we will be reducing the societal burden of table saw injuries.
The USPTO, and patent attorneys in general, are complicit in being part of the problem, and are perpetuating the ignorance of table saw injuries at the expense of everybody else.
Peter
Maybe I do not read it right but it sounded like the patent Bosch violated expired a few years back.
If so I wonder the Bosch version is not back.
Seemed to have the better approch.
Franco Calcagni
To me, all the delays, for the reasons you give, (SS licensing being possibly to high), is a definitive sign that the ruling will be in favor of mandating it on certain size, or maybe all saws.
I would suspect that the other MFR’s would keep it secret, but pretty sure they all have an idea that these laws will come at some point. They also know when the patents expire and are all probably working on their own systems, which will be straight copies, or somewhat similar to SS (or it would have already hit the market if it did not infringe on patents).
With more companies R&D working on it, maybe someone has, or will, figure out the grounding problem which make them a problem on cordless. (if someone figures it out, will they apply for a patent?!?!)
(I would make the patent so everyone gets it for free, except SS/Festool, they would have to pay a gazillion dollars!)
Zane
Seatbelts, etc save your life. Table saw tech saves your fingertips if you’re being careless. I’ve run tens of thousand of feet of lumber through table saws and my only accident was from feeding a piece that was narrower than the throat plate and having it get pulled down into the saw. I was young and it was idiotic, but my fingers still didn’t touch the blade. I use a zero clearance insert 95 percent of the time now. It’s hilarious how few people on job sites even know what that is. The saw stop technology is entirely unnecessary in my opinion. If you want to pay double for that feature, fine, but it in no universe should or ever be required.
Andy Creek
To Bob: 100% agree. Your comment on Volvo 3 point seat belts is spot on.
You had enough comments I would like to take your wise words and go a different direction from your post.
Laws/regulations/licenses that had the exact opposite of thier intent.
Remember those 3 point seat belts where the shoulder strap would always come up. Well that caused a lot of neck injuries, and higher than average decapitatation because, Well I’m strapped in the chest one, so the seat one is unnecessary. (just ignore Physics).
The smog in Mexico city is so bad, they passed legislation where people with odd number licence plates could drive 3 days a week people with even licence plates could drive the other 3. and on the 7th every one went to mass so that day was exempt. Except for people have to work 5 days a week so what do you do? go buy a second car, To get one car even one car odd. Except for when your forced buy a second car it’s the cheapest you can get and cheap cars pollut more. So it made the the problem way worse.
eddie sky
This is like the right to repair: the people pushing for it have THEIR OWN Agenda$. Its not about YOUR safety as much as its them licensing it to others for profit.
Either the patent licensing fee is nothing, or someone will have to build a better blade trap/mechanism. (think AI saw that protects you). A nanny cutter indeed.
There are still people that drive without seatbelts and never involved in an accident (they’ll say). Where as a minor dent and airbags break noses, burn hands/arms and even kill from shrapnel. (I would fight for right to disable airbags as an option).
So, yes, I would love a sub $2000 sawstop cabinet saw…which doesn’t exist. But this smells of profit over people (safety aka think of the insurance costs). And will it be like homeowners that have to have lead abatement over some painted trim? OR radon vents with electricity costs and permit fees? Or asbestos abatement?
But unless the patent holder is willing to be “reasonable” and allow use if other brands without adding $500-$1000 to the “hey, its safer and homeowners insurance will need inspection of your shop”… no thanks.
I’m drewling at looking into a Festool table saw (cordless) that has sliding table and ideal for small shop/garage/basement. And its less than a Sawstop contractor saw…yet Festool has riving knife, push stick, and blade turns off in 2 seconds.
David Z
Lead, radon, and asbestos. Definitely the three things I’d pick to support my argument.
“Lead paint is an invisible danger. Here are some facts about lead paint poisoning that everyone should know: A million kids are affected by lead paint poisoning with some level of irreversible damage, such as lower intelligence, learning disabilities and behavioral issues” EPA
“When lead is absorbed into the body, it can cause damage to the brain and other vital organs, like the kidneys, nerves, and blood. Lead may also cause behavioral problems, learning disabilities, seizures, and in extreme cases, death.” HUD
“The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that radon causes 21,000 lung cancer deaths each year. Radon is the leading environmental cause of any cancer. It is the second leading cause of lung cancer, after smoking. People who smoke and are exposed to radon have a 10 times greater risk of developing lung cancer from radon exposure compared with people who do not smoke and are exposed to the same radon levels.”
Asbestos abatement is typically only required if it is going to be disturbed and become airborne. That said, “Asbestos fibers are not harmful unless they are released into the air. When they are released, the fibers break down into tiny particles. The particles become airborne, and we inhale them. Then they collect in the lungs, causing scarring and inflammation. Several U.S. health organizations have classified asbestos as a carcinogen, a cancer-causing substance.
Exposure to asbestos can increase the risk of developing:
Lung cancer.
Asbestosis, which causes permanent lung damage.
Mesothelioma, a rare cancer of the chest and stomach lining.
Cancer of the gastrointestinal tract, kidney and throat (larynx or oropharynx).
Scarring of the lung lining.
Pleural effusions, when fluid collects around the lungs.” (Cleveland Clinic)
Franco Calcagni
I did not do a count, but it seems split between those for the safety features, and those either against it or just simply hate Gass, SS, or anything to do with their product.
I think that whichever side you are on, there is a very strong majority who are against having something rammed down their throat. Mandated, big brother or whatever else you want to call it, I am also one that is strongly against anything being mandated.
There are instances where putting a safety feature into law, does make sense, and despite our right to choose, mandating it, is for the greater good.
This SS tech is not one of them.
Jronman
Will the ruling allow for alternative safety systems then SawStop’s? A few that come to mind are Bosch Reaxx and Felder PCS. Each system saves your fingers but does so in different ways. The Bosch and Felder are objectively better than SawStop since either you save all components or some components when the safety system is triggered.
Stuart
I think that’s what’s holding things up – they could be waiting until brands don’t have to rely on a licensing agreement to meet any new safety standards.
Lawrence
So what about reciprocating saws, miter boxes, skill saws, eouters, ans every other tool that you need a brain to use? There are not that many injuries that we need big government stepping to to protect people from doing stupid things. When one of these mechanisms go off it is around 300 bucks to set it back up. If you want one buy one. Next they will say anyone with a table saw that does not have one, must get rid of it and buy new. This just goes to show that saw stop is just over priced.
Stuart
Many tools must adhere to different safety standards, which occasionally evolve over time.
And yes, there are very many injuries. Every now and then I take a look at OSHA incident reports; you’d be surprised as to how many workers slice into their legs with circular saws.
Trickman2
Happy to hear the Patent is dying finally. I hope Bosch brings back the Reaxx system. I almost bought that system over the Sawstop but because of the lawsuits. I went with Sawstop. It is about time and yes I think Bosch got screwed in that decision. Bosch’s design was smarter and doesn’t damage anything. Steve Gass is evil…he tried to force his tech on everyone by trying to get laws passed to make is a requirement. Nice little Monopoly scheme on his part. I don’t think we need the government making this a requirement….once the patent dies it will start showing up everywhere. Government just needs to make sure they don’t get around extending the patent. Then let competition do the work…Insurance companies will help push the requirements at jobsites, shop classes, etc.