Brandon asked a great question regarding something he first noticed about his Craftsman C3 cordless power tools.
The question boils down to this: is there a difference between tools when one company makes two different brands of tools?
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Here’s his full question:
Background: I live in a small town (8500-ish + college kids) and our local SEARS closed.
I had a C3 cordless trimmer I needed a replacement auto-feeder for… it turned out to be a trip down an unexpected rabbit hole.
When I googled the replacement part number found in the manual, 3110382AG, it led me to spools made by Ryobi, even on Sears’ site.
A light-googling let me to ToolGuyd (and the TTI site). You are now bookmarked as a favorite, because it’s been a pretty awesome discovery for me.
The question:
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You seem like a reason resource to tackle the problem that led me here.
What’s the true mechanical difference between two items owned by the same company (like Hoover and Dirt Devil)?
Is it analog to car companies with a luxury-line? Like Toyota’s Lexus relationship? In which I’m assuming a lot of inventory sharing, but their own engineers? Sometimes sharing a factory, but not always?
… come to think of it, I’m not even positive that’s how those work. I’ve got a handful of logical assumptions, but I’ve never confirmed them and am not sure how to even start, especially in the power tools arena.
And ultimately it all boils down to a single point: Am I getting $ value for a premium-priced product when many of the parts could be associated with a less-reliable product?
First off, thanks for your kind words about ToolGuyd – it’s much appreciated! And I’m glad you find our content to be useful!
As for Craftsman replacement parts leading to Ryobi components, TTI, which owns Ryobi’s power tool operations in North America and most other regions outside of Japan, manufactures some tools for Craftsman, most notably some of their higher performing C3 cordless power tools.
Craftsman has some other manufacturing partners as well, such as Chervon, which makes Kobalt’s cordless power tools, and Stanley Black & Decker, which makes the 20V Max Bolt-On modular power tool lineup.
I don’t think I have ever seen duplicate products in Craftsman and Ryobi cordless lineups, but there are similarities at times.
To the best of my knowledge, manufacturers customize the design and build of power tools according to the specs and requirements of the brands they produce tools for.
One of the few examples of similarities is between Craftsman’s Bolt-On lineup and Black & Decker’s Matrix tools.
Different brands, even those under the same corporate umbrella, might spec similar-looking tools differently. Take Dewalt and Porter Cable, for example. Dewalt’s trim router has variable speed motor, Porter Cable’s has a single speed motor for $10 less. There have been a few cases of Dewalt and Stanley FatMax tools being different only in color and branding, but that’s not really the case anymore. When it is true, regional brand preferences are the reason, such as with a FatMax tool in Europe being Dewalt branded in the USA.
Kerhaw and Zero Tolerance knife brands are owned by the same company, with there being a substantial difference in features and quality.
Bosch and Skil are both under the same corporate umbrella, but aside for some premium Skil tools, such as their worm drive saws (note: that giveaway has ended) and their new worm drive table saw, there are few resemblances.
So now to the second question – is it worth buying a premium brand tool?
YES.
Some tools might share common parts, but it’s impossible to know.
Maybe Black & Decker and Dewalt drills share similar gear shafts. I don’t know, I’m guessing, because how difference can motor shafts be? But the motors, chucks, and probably everything else from trigger switch to the battery cells are going to be different.
There are times when differences are blurred, such as with very specific Dewalt and Porter Cable tools. But, much of the time, there are tangible differences between different brands’ product tiers.
A few years ago, there were identical Ridgid and Ryobi air compressors. The Ridgid ones sold quickly, and then the Ryobi ones were bundled with nailers and promoted during a holiday shopping season.
But times like that, when you have identical products in premium and less premium brands’ product lines, are extremely rare.
This changes on a case by case basis, but as a general rule, private label brands have products designed and built to their unique specifications.
Keter is another notable example. They make products for Husky, Craftsman, and Ridgid, at the least, and sometimes offer the same tool organizers and cases under their own branding.
Thinking more about Craftsman, there are times when Sears will sell certain Craftsman tools for less. I bought a Knipex-made 2-piece pliers set a few years ago for less than the price of one Knipex pliers.
Irwin and their NWS-made pliers are another example. The Irwin pliers have differently designed handles, and there are also a few exclusive pliers styles. The Irwin pliers can be found for less than the NWS ones, presumably because they can negotiate lower price and higher volume deals with retailers.
I suppose the car analogy is a good on. Even when a chassis, engine, or major components are shared between two models, one more premium or higher tiered than the other, there are usually substantial enough differences. Whether those differences are important to you is the big thing. With cars, it might me more luxury or lower pricing. Wth tools, it might be greater longevity, or durable construction, more power, or a difference performance qualifier.
R Dogg
here’s a perfect example…
I purchased a floor-model Craftsman 15″ drill press – missing some parts of course. Sears parts (through Searspartsdirect of third-party) were ridiculously expensive.
For example I needed the yellow safety key for the power switch. sears would only sell the entire switch for $20-something, where that same switch was $6 at a third-party site.
Even better, I found the key sold by itself for under $1. I had to do some image comparisons and took a leap of faith, but it was well worth it.
Same thing for the chuck key $23 vs. $4
…and the crank handle $32 vs. $8 (a ridgid one was the same as the craftsman btw)
BigDan
Ridgid’s table saw at HD right now is a clone of the craftsman one. I think they only repainted it, maybe a couple other tweaks.
Nathan
There are quite a few cases where you are going to market 2 devices (or more) and need to have some parts commonality.
Take your toyota lexus example – specifically the toyota camary and the lexus ES whatever – they are the same platform, but not the same car.
most of the unibody chassis will be the same stampings – things like the suspension arms, and other major components will be the same. The engines might actually be the same with different cover pieces. But inside past the firewall the dash, fllor pan, seats, etc will all be different. minor differences but still different. The body panels the other pieces outside of the structure that lend more to the touch and feel of the car – are made more upscale. in the end there is maybe some 60-80% parts commonality – but you end up with 2 different feeling cars.
Now on the tool side the same thing applies. trade out the handles – the rest of the support frame – use better motors, or maybe even just a rubber mount for the motor, stronger switches or whathave you – but in the end the 2 pieces have to have some of the same parts. Like your trimmer head – why not use the pieces that are known to work. The cost of making a new head would have significantly raised the cost of the over all trimmer.
But in your specific case craftsman is just a rebranded whatever- sears goes out to bid with make a _________ that has these features. Whoever comes back with the lowest bid is the makers – so there will be similar pieces with whomever that is. In your case Ryobi.
jtr165
I completely agree, just to add a little:
The car example, is similar to the tool example, in that it’s really a case by case situation. Some ‘high end’ brand cars (particular from Japanese makes) share some structural and powertrain components between the mid range and higher end equivalents (Lexus, as a brand, does this more often than not) just as you said…but some are literally the exact same car, and only have a badge change for marketing purposes.
In the 90’s, the original Honda NSX sports car was just that in Japan…but for most of the rest of the world, it was the Acura NSX. Exact same car, only rebadged for different markets. The same company did the same thing with the Integra; in Japan it was the Honda Integra, for the US and most of Europe it was the Acura Integra…eventually that car was turned into the RSX in the US, but kept the Honda Integra badging in Japan. Nissan had similar things with the Skyline series; in Japan it was the Nissan skyline after a certain model year, but was an Infinity G35 in the US. The higher performance GTR, though, dropped back to be a ‘nissan’ everywhere, though.
Not sure if any tools specifically fit into the latter, but as far as cars there definitely are occasions where a ‘higher end’ car is in no way different than what it originates from…the only difference is certain markets having a different perspective of the specific brands…
Toolfreak
The early Lexus models were pretty much higher end Toyotas rebadged as a Lexus for the US market, but more recent Lexus models have lots of unique model-specific parts. Same goes for other new vehicles as well.
Toyota in particular though, has a habit of saving money by using certain parts they have been using since the 60’s-70’s into the 80’s. Lots and lots of the small parts, bolts, brackets, etc. often share the same part number no matter if it’s on a $350,000+ Lexus or a $30,000 Camry. The thing is, you will pay more for that part at a Lexus dealership than if you buy it for say, a Toyota Corolla at a Toyota dealer.
Craftsman/Ryobi stuff can work the same way. You might pay $30 through Sears parts for something you can buy as a Ryobi part for $6-7, or the other way around.
fred
Sometimes (but not always) the giveaway to the OEM may be the UPC or EAN barcode. You can look up the “owner” at sites like this one:
http://www.gtin.info/gs1.php
Toolfreak
The beauty of Craftsman stuff is you can use the Sears Parts Direct site to get the actual part numbers for whatever you’re working on, and pasting those part numbers, whether the original or substituted aftermarket part, into a search engine will get you info and buying options galore.
Sometimes SPD has a good price and can be an easy way to get a hard-to-find part, but often I can find the OE part on ebay/amazon for a lot, lot less, and sometimes even an old-school USA made one.
Tom
It’s worth noting at both of those Ridgid and Ryobi compressors that you mentioned are on sale today:
http://www.homedepot.com/SpecialBuy/SpecialBuyOfTheDay
The Ridgid it actually $10 less.
Joe G
Bull. Unless you’ve taken apart Dewalt and Porter Cable tools and actually noted differences in the motor, any difference you note in those two lineups are in the overmold and the switch. You need to stop listening to tool company PR and marketing people so much.
For example, this:
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWP611PK-Torque-Variable-Compact/dp/B0049ZFUK2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467735863&sr=8-2&keywords=dewalt+611+router
And this:
https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-450PK-Compact-Router-Plunge/dp/B0046A8V6A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467735844&sr=8-1&keywords=porter+cable+compact+router
Those two are identical except for the bases and the overmold. The motors have exactly the same specs. I’d bet money they are made on the same production line to the same tolerances.
A couple of years ago Sears was selling a Craftsman 12V drill and impact driver. I got one on clearance. I then saw the exact same tool with a different logo sold at my local hardware store under the “Master Mechanic” brand. The exact same tool.
Anything TTI makes for Craftsman you can be sure they are using in some other tool as well. Just because the plastic looks different doesn’t mean the tool isn’t the same underneath. It’s not a Toyota/Lexus situation. It’s a Chevrolet/Opel situation. GM sells cars badged with the Chevy logo in the US, and the same car as an Opel in Europe.
BikerDad
Ya know Joe, seeing someone expose their ignorance in such a fashion as you’ve just done is one of the joys of the Internet. Stuart TOLD you what the difference is. You can SEE the difference IN the pictures YOU posted. And yet here you are saying the only difference is the overmold and switch.
No, the KEY difference is the Porter Cable is a fixed speed router, the DeWalt is a variable speed. That’s A BIG difference. Furthermore, the fixed bases are different. Oh, btw, the SWITCH is the same.
Joe G
Glad you’re entertained.
The two routers have the exact – I would bet down to the last screw – motor. The dewalt more than likely has a resistance type speed controller, which is like a forty cent part, added. I noted the differences in the fixed base. That’s done so that people like you will think they’re different machines.
Ben
Joe, I’m from the future, you’re the only person who got it right. Porter Cable is now a zombie brand and Craftsman is now owned by SB&D and is red Dewalt.
OhioHead
The DeWalt router was 1st to market w/ the base change kit……and it based on BD/DeWalt patents available from the Elu brand of routers that were only available in Europe (never the US to my knowledge) and said brand (Elu) has been owned by BD/DeWalt for years……..
Mike
Ridgid and Milwaukee jigsaw are identical
Matt J
I think a better way to look at it might be more along the lines of vehicles that are more the same platform than the luxury vs base. For example, a lot of SUVs share a majority of their suspension and whatnot with the same brand’s trucks. My Dakota is very similar to the same gen Durango, but that doesn’t mean it can do everything a Durango can or vis versa, you need one or the other for certain jobs. Granted all metaphors fall apart if you go too deep but I feel like this is decent enough. Your high end tools are built just different enough to appeal to heavier use and rough and tumble care, while your lower brands are going to be a bit more just along for the ride.
mizzourob
I wonder if Stuart knows what is going on with the Craftsman C3 line. They stopped selling the outdoor power equipment and switched to a 24v system that I suspect is Chervon made.
Jason
Wow that sucks 🙁 That was one of the really nice things about being on the C3 platform was compatibility with those kind of tools
glenn
To me it seems logical that a tool manufacturer would share some R&D or even filter down some tech for cost savings alone.
Just one example which is plainly obvious to me is AEG/Milwaukee similarities,in a number of their tools., some barely changed, some modified a little more. ie; handles etc.
Have a look at the 12v the 18v rotary hammers, the 18v jigsaw, 18v grinder, reciprocating saw and blower.
Even the handles, triggers, led’s etc on the 12v tools look the same as Milwaukee’s 12v tools.
https://aegpowertools.com.au/products/filter/power/18v
https://aegpowertools.com.au/products/filter/power/12v
Although we don’t get Ridgid cordless tools here, AEG’s nailer appears to be the same as Ridgid’s nailer. I recall reading somewhere that AEG and Ridgid batteries are interchangeable but I have no way of confirming this.
https://aegpowertools.com.au/products/nailers/18v-brushless-16ga-c-brad-nailer
I can think of a couple more examples of cordless tools from different brands that appear to share the same manufacturer but that will only be relevant if you live in Australia.
OhioHead
In the early 00’s MKE cordless was based on AEG’s “reverse pack’s” now I “can GUARNTEE” MKE is driving the innovation for AEG for cordless…….I would assume C3 cordless 19.2 (actually 18.0) is the same as Ryobi One System w/ some slight “tweeks” so the batteries don’t work and spec’s are slightly different or tools are “new” vs. the other system.
Cr8ondt
Hey my 2 cents and a dime, I was running Porter Cable 20v tools for awhile, and I can with out a doubt say (comparing apples to apples) the PC PCCK640 beats the snot out of its sister DeWalt DCF885 head to head, I highly doubt there is a single common part between the 2. Now I’ve moved up the food chain and tossed out the apples into DeWalt’s DCF887 and the difference is insane!! Now let’s look at PC and DeWalt’s CORDED OMTs aside from the differences in the on/off and speed controls they have the same drivetrains right down the the part numbers, but the cordless ones couldn’t be more different, DeWalt being brushless, far less vibration, yada yada only sharing the same blade pattern. I guess the morel to my story is yes there is a good reason to get the premium tools, if the tool IS premium, you just gotta do a little homework.
Jacob Edmond
I think the real answer is you should take a look at the top menu, under guides and you will find some solid options for drills and cordless tool lines to switch to. Craftsman is in a very unstable time right now anyways according to most rumors!
jaytkif
Craftsman is all over the map, they share manufacturers with other brands on a number of tools, both corded and cordless. I can think of a number of products that are basically palette swaps with minor tweaks. With Sears closing stores, and looking at options for the brand, I’m probably going to stay away, especially from any cordless tools. Oh, and their website is terrible too, so I wouldn’t bank on that for long term support either.
Interesting that Porter Cable is mentioned here in this thread, because from a consumer’s perspective, as a brand, their current position is just a mess. They seem to be competing with other offerings from their own parent company, and face heavy competition in every retailer. However, I suppose if I’m cynical, Porter Cable may in fact be a zombie brand (i.e. it was purchased for the purpose of eliminating a competitor). Stanley / B&D seems to be more than content to leverage their brands for short term gain, at the cost of confusing or devaluing them long term, except DeWalt.
As a business strategy, it’s a good one, for those buying anything from them, it’s good practice to visit this site to get the low down.
BigSexy
I remember an old timer once told me that a Mercury was the same as a Ford, but the Merc was built with lock washers. Just as funny now as it was then.