Is it a conspiracy? Are power tool brands trying to squeeze us for maximum profits? Are they just plain evil?
I could probably ask some of them about why every brand has their own proprietary battery format, and I’m sure I’d get some official and reasonable-sounding answers. But let’s brainstorm about this a little bit.
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Some brands design their tools differently. One brand’s protection circuitry might be in the battery pack, another’s might be in the tool. Basic battery protection, to my knowledge, will always be in the battery pack.
Why would any brand change their entire design structure over, so that you could use another brand’s tools or batteries with theirs? They wouldn’t.
But let’s say you could. What would happen if you combined a Milwaukee battery pack with a Dewalt power tool? Or a Makita battery with a Metabo power tool? Or a Ryobi battery pack with a Bosch power tool, pretending that a stem pack could fit a slide-style tool interface?
You won’t see cross-brand compatibility because brands like to ensure predictable performance. If you could use one brand of battery and another brand of power tool, who would you complain to if the tool performance wasn’t what you expected?
You’ll see proprietary battery packs all over the place. I have Panasonic cameras that take different battery packs. My old Canon Rebel dSLR camera takes one type of battery pack, my newer cameras take another.
I can’t even access the batteries in my tablet, laptop, or cell phone.
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It’s not reasonable to expect things to be different with power tools.
In fact, if the power tool industry was like the electronics industry, there should be many different battery form factors to choose from.
Okay, what about Stanley Black & Decker and all of their brands?
Again, it’s about predictable performance. The technology and cells that go into a Black & Decker battery pack are going to be much different than those that go into a Dewalt battery pack.
While a Dewalt 20V Max battery pack should be perfectly capable of powering Black & Decker and Porter Cable 20V Max tools, barring any special electronics-related or handshake reasons, can a Black & Decker battery pack power a Dewalt power tool?
Maybe, but it probably won’t deliver the same level of power, or perform under the same conditions, or endure the same types of shock and handling abuse that a lot of professional tools see on a daily basis.
If you could buy non-Dewalt battery packs for your Dewalt tools at half the price, or less, wouldn’t you? And that’s why Stanley Black & Decker probably won’t ever make their various brands of tools work well together.
Dewalt and Mac Tools’ compatibility is an exception to this, and they were designed that way.
I don’t care about defending tool brands, I merely try to understand them.
In a recent comment to the post about how Porter Cable 20V Max tools and batteries aren’t compatible with their 18V ones, Daniel says:
The only thing proprietary batteries do is make life frustrating for us the customer.
I respectfully disagree. Yes, replacement and additional battery packs are expensive. Having to maintain multiple brands and form factors of battery packs is a hassle.
But consider this – what reasons do brands have to standardize their battery packs?
The additional bare tool purchases would be offset by lower battery pack sales. Returns would be higher, customer support requests would be higher, and users might be unhappy and blame the tool brand if they experience poor performance due to a battery-tool mismatch of capabilities and needs.
I still think that Bosch’s wireless charger is our best bet as a universal power tool battery charging system. Yes, you would still multiple brands of battery packs for your multiple brands of tools, but at least then you would be able to use fewer chargers.
Am I wrong about this? Please think about the question and share your theories!
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fred
Stuart
To use a tool-related phrase – I think you hit the nail(s) on the head.
I agree that there is little or no incentive for any name brand manufacturer of offer cross compatible batteries with another brand and there are many disincentives beyond just profit motive. The battery platform marketplace is also probably not stable or mature enough for third parties to jump in either. If at some future date – we arrive at the unlikely point where battery/charging technology has ceased to change/improve every few years – and we’re stuck with one standardized battery technology – then we might see third parties jump in with adapters to make their non-OEM battery work across various platforms.
Andy
Over on the Toolguyd blog, there is some info about this.
https://discuss.toolguyd.com/t/battery-cross-compatibility/27
Leyton
Don’t really agree, I think consumers are generally smart enough to know you get what you pay for. If you buy AA batteries in a 12 pack for a few dollars you don’t expect them to perform or last as long as a lithium energizer battery. You generally don’t blame the product, you try a better battery.
If I paid half price for a dewalt knock off battery I would not expect the same level of performance.
The manufacturers do it so someone else doesn’t undercut their prices by a few dollars and take market share.
Leyton
I probably should have summed it up by saying:
“Why do manufacturers do anything?”
“To make money”
fred
I’m not sure the issue is just price – although that is certainly one component.
There are plenty of third party vendors offering tool batteries. Most of what I’ve seen are marketed as refurbished – and fill a niche as replacements – especially when the OEM battery is no longer available and you don’t wish to scrap the tool just yet. So you can get some supposedly cheaper alternatives – but whether their quality and longevity will be any good may be another matter.
What cheaper third party batteries don’t allow any better than OEM batteries is cross-compatibility so that you can pick and choose which OEM tool you like for what job – ending up with a mix of manufacturers all using the same or adapted batteries. If this were the emerging electric power business – and there had been no country-wide standards for outlet/plug configuration and voltage/frequency specifications – we’d have been in a real pickle. But this is a bit different, and the principles of free trade have perhaps foisted a bit of inconvenience on the consumers. But incompatible batteries while inconvenient for consumer choice, has created an opportunity (or so they may think) for manufacturers to build brand-loyalty. Battery platform difference are an incentive for tool users to stick with their brand taking advantage of being able to buy “bare tools” and use previously purchased batteries and chargers, .
Jerry
Going with your DeWalt/B&D example, why couldn’t they be compatible? The B&D batteries could be 2-3 AH, the PC 3 -4 AH, and the DW 4+. If this would have been done at the time of the slide pack introduction, I think it would have been better for them overall. Someone owning a B&D, and wanting to upgrade to a higher grade tool would grab a DW knowing his existing batteries would fit. Conversely, someone who owns DW tools and needs something for light use could get a B&D and use their existing batteries. As it is now, there is no reason to stop a B&D owner from going to Milwaukee or Ridgid. I think that is one reason Ryobi tools are popular around here. Ryobi owners I know (myself included) like that we can have comp!etc compatibility between tools, batteries, and chargers. The new chargers can even charge the old NiCad batteries. Higher performance tools require the lithium+ batteries for full performance, but they still work with the other style batteries if need be. To some, multiple batteries may be no big deal, but it gets tiring always needing to get a different battery or taking 2 different chargers to the job and realizing you still can’t charge the dead battery on the took you need next.
Look at cars. Its bad enough you have top or side posts, but imagine if you had a Ford interface, a Chevy interface, Toyota, Nissan, etc. would a change to that cause people to go on,about how each battery is optimized to each car, or would it just cause more confusion? If today’s cars, with all their computerized circuitry can be made battery cross compatible, why not tools, at least within a family line?
Stuart
Because the cells are different.
Dewalt tools are more power hungry, and so they require battery cells that can deliver greater power.
At the most fundamental level, B&D batteries are lesser than Dewalt ones. That’s find for the tools and applications they’re meant for.
Since you brought up car batteries, would you power a pickup truck with one sized for an entry level compact sedan?
Jerry
Actually, I have two pickup trucks, my wife’s car, a d two of our tractors, and one skid steer loader all have the exact same battery in them. There may be a board or shim in one thing or another, so the battery isn’t loose, but I have saved countless headaches being able to borrow a battery from one to use in another. Granted, the car doesn’t need 900 car king amps, but to me it was worth it to have the cross compatibility. That is all I ask, that it worm, not that every tool be optimal with every battery. I have some Ryobi tools, and mixed batteries. My 1/2 impact only has about 2/3 power using the NiCad batteries compared to the Lithium+, but I know that, and would rather have a tool usable even if at reduced performance, than not at all.
Derek
I’ve always assumed the higher the brand of tool from Stanley Black & Decker the higher quality the batteries. So grade A battery cells go in Dewalt, B in Porter Cable, C in Black and Decker.
Dan
Expanding on Stuart’s point that cells are different, they also have evolved over time. Not that long ago, 2 AH cells were “top of the line”; 5 AH are readily available now; 6-7-8 AH will be along shortly. So, saving high-capacity batteries for the better brand and low-capacity batteries for the cheaper brand doesn’t work and gets very confusing as newer, higher-capacity batteries are released.
Additionally, in lithium batteries cell discharge plays a very important part of the battery performance — how quickly can it dump its power into the tool? A battery that can dump faster can translate into more torque and speed. An easy way to give a tool a boost is to use a better battery, and an easy way to save some money is to give a tool a lesser battery. Of course, just like AH ratings, cell discharge rates are always improving.
Additionally, cell matching plays an important role in achieving the best battery performance. 18/20 volt lithium batteries use five 3.7 volt cells. Any five cells can be thrown together to make a battery that works, but putting together a pack with five cells that share the same characteristics makes a better-performing battery.
So, at the bottom end we could have low amp-hour ratings, low discharge rates, and unmatched cells. At the top end we could have high AH ratings, high discharge rates, and matched cells. But that doesn’t simplify things because of the steadily-advancing battery technologies. In other words, today’s low discharge, low AH, matched cell batteries are yesterdays high end offerings.
Put together a matrix of all of these offerings and you will be left with a dizzying array of options that yield different results and different price-points meant for different purposes.
I’ll even go so far as to say that manufacturers are doing us a favor by simplifying our choices to give us something that will work.
mizzourob
The Porter Cable battery switch was so frustrating for me. I’m invested in their 18 volt line but they switched designs of batteries for no good reason. I get DeWalt. switching from 18volt to 20Volt Max branding due to the switch from post/pod style batteries to slide packs, but Porter Cable went from slide pack to slide pack. If it were not for the change I would be excitd about their new nailers. I would love to see a tear down on the two pack styles. In this case I think it was greed that motivated the switch. Masterforce tools kept all of their 18volt tools (white) compatible with 20volt rebrands (green). Thus Porter Cable has left me orphaned and a free agent to decide which system to switch to. I originally choose Porter Cable for their near DeWalt quality at a lower cost but with slide style batteries to prevent the issues of a style swap like DeWalt was going through.
Jason
That was a really crappy move SBD did killing the PC 18v line and changing the battery platform.
Stuart
Yep. As someone who bought Porter Cable 18V tools, I was a bit annoyed as well.
At the time, they told me that it was because they needed to move away from the dual battery technology built-into the tools and chargers. The NiCd compatibility was hindering innovation, ergonomics, or something like that.
Their drill and impact driver came out first, and were a higher class of tools than the 18V tools. It left me optimistic. But then they went and basically expanded the 20V Max lineup with a bunch of tools seemingly no better than the 18V ones they effectively replaced.
I touched upon it a few years ago (https://toolguyd.com/porter-cable-brand-confusion-and-mixed-messages/), but Porter Cable has suffering from an identity crisis, and continues to do so.
I believe they see Ryobi as their primary competitor, maybe Craftsman as well.
What I think is that PC initially wanted the 20V Max lineup to be raised above their 18V lineup, but then things didn’t work out and they simply replaced their 18V lineup.
They were future-looking, wanting to ensure that they could come out with power-hungry tools beyond what their current 18V NiCd abd maybe Li-ion as well could deliver. I guess that simply coming out with the new form factor was the way to go.
fred
Anyone who remembers Porter Cable as the premier brand of corded tools (Routers, Sanders, Planers etc.) for woodworkers – can get angry at what Black & Decker did to the brand. But hey – it was theirs to do and they wanted to keep Dewalt strong as the premier tool and not cannibalize sales.
AM
I’m guessing you probably have in your test collection a set of Dewalt and Porter Cable 20v batteries and drills. How about we get a full teardown AVE style to see where there really is a difference. I’m guessing their are lower grade parts in the Porter Cable, but I would bet there is a lot the same under the cover.
Just like this guy proved he could share black and decker battery with a PC.
Stuart
That’s Porter Cable’s cheap holiday special drill.
Either way, just because the battery fits with modification, doesn’t necessarily mean that the tech is all the same.
Put me in a race car. I’ll fit in the front seat, and will get the car around the track, but I’m definitely not going to be the one to win the race.
I’ll try to do some teardowns when I have a chance. I also have the equipment necessary for battery and tool power characterization, but it’s very time consuming.
AM
I agree, but adding a bigger gas tank (dewalt) to PC would be prime. I’ve got some old 18v PC with batteries that are about to be shot.
When I replace them I’d like to be able to get a Dewalt kit for drill and impact, my most used tools, but for one off tools the PC quality would be sufficient for more than one job.
I can never see a world where the Dewalt battery wouldn’t be better for a lower grade tool.
Stuart
Yes, but for every 1 user that upgrades to a higher tier of battery pack, there might be 9 users that downgrade to whatever’s cheapest.
Richard Guzinya
And that should be their choice.
Stuart
I disagree.
Who’s going to have to pay when a user returns tools because their higher-end tools don’t perform well with their entry-level battery packs? Tool brands and retailers, who will pass the cost onto everyone else.
J., Homeowner
You certainly raise a good point, Stuart.
Just imagine…cordless power tool reviews could become overwhelming if batteries were cross-compatible. For a comprehensive review of a tool a reviewer would not only need to test the tool itself, but also its function with multiple manufacturers’ batteries.
JoeM
I’d LIKE to say I empathize with people wanting this cross-compatibility thing, but I just can’t. I may not have grizzled hands, or 40 years of experience working with tools for a living that was a constant up-hill battle, but I have lived my life around tools and customers in the Tech industry. It has lessons of its own that are far more relevant here.
The key lesson here? The biggest possible thing you can learn that will silence all other doubt? This simple phrase: The fewer the variables, the fewer points of failure.
“Why Can’t We____?” Stupidity, that’s why. Life has taught me that, when the chips are down, your life on the line, and everything depends on things going smoothly? ALWAYS bet on Stupid. Stupid happens. Not always you, but SOMETIMES you. And if it can happen to YOU sometimes, then it’s possible in OTHERS as well. That possibility that Stupid happens will statistically coincide with times when a steady hand is required, and mistakes CAN’T be made. Why? I’m not a statistician, but something to do with the act of many non-stupid issues leading up to that moment adds up to a statistical fluke where you’ve just flipped the coin one too many times to not get Stupid in that moment.
Now, that’s just in your OWN life. Now look at a Tool company, ANY Tool Company. They make a LIVING on making the objects we use in those hairy-white-knuckle moments where Stupid happens so often. They are THE people who we need to do everything right in order for us to be able to do everything right with our Tools. Enter Stupid. You forgot to charge it. You charge it every day, and today, you just didn’t, because you Stupidly assumed you already had. Now… Imagine you’re the Tech Support person who has to take your frustrated call? Go down the list of questions you have to be asked by said Tech Support person in order to figure out if this is an actual failure of THEIR product, or just Stupid happening and no one’s fault at all. You’re not Stupid, THEY’RE not Stupid, Stupid just IS in this case.
How many points of failure if you’re using THEIR Tool, with THEIR Battery? Three. You, Tool, and Battery. NOW… You’re using an OEM Battery…. How many points of failure? FIVE, MINIMUM. You, Tool, Battery, Charger, Other Company. Worst Case Scenario: You, Tool, Battery, Charger, Other Company, Protection Circuit, House Wiring (Due to Compatibility Issue), Socket Damage (Due to Fit or Wear), Power Consumption Imbalance (OEM Battery using different Ah rating than listed/Ideal Conditions not met), and, of course, OEM Battery AGE. How many of these, both Minimum and Worst Case can the Tool Company help you with? THREE. The difference is they have to turn a 5 minute check of the battery charge into a MINIMUM 20 minute exchange about explaining why they can’t, and shouldn’t be expected to, help you with the other 2-7 points of failure that are outside their scope of support. Because Stupid happened, as it does happen statistically, that Tech Support person has to also be able to talk YOU down off your high horse, potentially in Anger, over that moment when Stupid happened beyond anyone’s control. Something that, if we’re only talking 3 points of failure, can take 5 minutes, and on to the next customer in the cue. If we’re talking 5-10 points of failure, can take 20 minutes, a potential talk with a supervisor, and a LOT of money down the drain for everyone involved, keeping more people in the cue longer, which irritates them and makes the process even longer.
All of this because of convenience. It’s expensive to us, the users, but it’s even more expensive to the manufacturers who have to deal with perfectly innocent instances of Stupid happening. So, yes… Manufacturers have set some pretty heavy controls in place to limit the number of failure points. It’s expensive to maintain tools, but that’s just the responsibility of the owner of those tools. You spent good money on obtaining it, you had better treat it with respect, and care, and yes LOYALTY enough to reduce YOUR points of failure. Because Stupid HAPPENS. Sure, you may have a DeWalt one thing, and a Milwaukee another thing, and so on, and so on, and so on, but if you’re going to be so brand-disloyal, you take the risk of Stupid happening on yourself. The points of failure there are something you HAVE to take responsibility for, because you DO have a lot of money invested in those tools. If one single brand doesn’t have ALL the tools you need for the job, then you STILL have to take responsibility for the ones you bring with you. Because Stupid Happens, and the more Variables you put into that Statistical pot, the more likely you’re going to pull out something Stupid.
It’s something we are ALL Responsible for. As Tool Users, AND as Consumers. The Fewer the Variables, The Fewer the Points of Failure. COULD Tool Brands have In-Family Battery Compatibility? Yes. Would you WANT a DeWALT Customer Service Rep dealing with both the Contractor/Tradesman Market AS WELL as the Consumer/Homeowner Market where there is MORE chance of something Stupid going on? NO. You’d never get through to them, they’d always be dealing with something stupid, and by the time they got to you, you’d BOTH be having the worst days of your lives. No. The Fewer the Variables, the Fewer the Points of Failure. You WANT Proprietary Tools with Proprietary Batteries. It limits the Variables for EVERYONE involved.
mike aka Fazzman
Nice write up,and i totally agree.
As someone who is invested in the Porter cable 20v line Honestly I could care less if a Dewalt pack would fit or not,I understand what goes into making both tools and the reasons why.
With them having the same parent company you’d think them making a better PC line would be fairly simple.
The drill and impact are pretty good in my opinion. only thing the impact needs really is a multi speed gearbox. As a DIY guy these are great tools for the money.
Im really loving the form factor of all these Gen 2 tools coming out. Im leaning towards Dewalt for a hammer drill. PC didnt have a 20v hammer drill in their line when i got mine.
Adam
*I couldn’t care*, that is unless you do want to care just above the least, but have the possibility of caring less later on.
Bill K
I summize that cordless tool manufactures for the most part use the “Polaroid camera” business model with much healthier profit margins on the batteries than the original tools. Once they have captured a customer, and if that customer wants to keep the tool, then that customer has few options but to buy their propriety replacement batteries. I’ve thrown away many a rechargeable device, that mechanically in good shape when it cost little more to buy an all new device instead of buying replacement batteries.
RX9
I’ve thought a fair bit about this, and I believe that when the next generation of battery technology emerges, there is a good chance that a standardized battery format will emerge. Here are my reasons for this belief:
1. Decreasing battery margins.
Because battery cost is a relevant selling point, competition between major players has been steadily decreasing the average consumer unit cost of power tool batteries. While the nominal prices of batteries have remained high, manufacturers have actually been lowering them by offering numerous package/bonus buy deals where batteries are substantially lowered in cost or even outright given away. The net result of this is most clearly reflected on the secondary market (ebay/craigslist), where per unit battery prices have been declining. Moreover, a number of Chinese firms have introduced low cost copycat batteries for major systems (Makita, Dewalt, Milwaukee), putting even more downward pressure on battery revenue. As these trends carry on, there is an increasing incentive for power tool manufacturers to find a way to divest their increasingly unprofitable battery lines.
2. Reallocation of development capital.
Divesting themselves of battery development and manufacturing would allow power tool companies to reallocate their investments and focus on their core business and competencies.
3. Sales benefits for niche market players.
Much as has been the case with every product format battle in history (computer storage, video/audio playback etc.), there has been a consistent winnowing of the field towards a few big players with most of the market share. The popularity and range depth of Milwaukee/Makita/Dewalt is making many people reticent to invest in smaller lines like that of Ridgid/Metabo/Hitachi/Panasonic. To wit, Ridgid had to offer their latest line, the brushless Gen5x, at effectively 50-60% of the cost of comparable Milwaukee/Dewalt tools in order to compete. In order to survive in a market where the share of cordless models is continually going up, smaller manufacturers may have to band together around a common battery format.
4. Battery design requirements are already far more standardized than you expect.
a. Technology and construction – Beginning with the advent of sub-c cell construction in the late 80’s and continuing on to the 18650 lithium cell format used today, power tool batteries have been largely standardized on the inside. In fact, component suppliers like Samsung provide essentially identical 18650 cells to several different power tool makers.
b. Power delivery – Nearly all the cordless tool makers on the market have settled on two major voltage points for their product lines – 12V and 18V. What’s more the power delivery specifications on these cells, within a given voltage, do not vary significantly.
c. Form Factor – Just about every li-ion 18v line on the market now uses the “sliding brick” form factor (save for Ryobi). As you know, this format uses five 18650 cells laid side by side to form a compact cell, and two layers of five (10 total) to form a full-size battery. Many of the 12V lines, including Bosch, Milwaukee, and Makita, use an identical format of three 18650 cells bundled vertically for their compact cells.
What all of this means is that the basic power design requirements for literally hundreds of different tool applications have been solved in the same way by different OEMs using the 18v “sliding brick” and 12V “vertical bundle” formats. Excepting power regulation and protection standards (which are similar anyway), it’s almost as if a universal standard is already here.
5. Decreased development cost for niche market players.
Not having to worry about developing a battery line allows niche players and manufacturers to break into the market much more easily. It also opens the floodgates for non-tool manufacturers to produce equipment that takes advantage of the common format.
6. Direct sales opportunities for battery manufacturers.
Battery manufacturers have a very strong incentive to create a market in which they directly offer their product to an ever increasing cordless equipment market. This incentive comes in the form of both increased margins and increased overall sales (see point #5).
Richard Guzinya
Oh, the batteries inside the pack will be very much the same. Only the outside of the pack that has to fit into the charger and the device will be different. Pull apart some battery packs and see what is inside. that outside design will of course be patented as proprietary so that aftermarket battery pack makers will not eat into sales of the name brand. Anyone familiar with retail marketing can easily see that the tool manufacturers keep their devices as ONLY using their own supplied batteries, for twice the cost, of course.
Stuart
That is incorrect. The battery cells are NOT the same across different brand product lines. The form factor might be the same, but you’re not going to find the same cells in a Black & Decker 20V Max battery pack as in a Milwaukee M18 battery pack, even if they’re the same physical size and shape.
cb
The only lack of battery incompatability is with the Dremels and the Bosch’s 10.8/12v line. If you’re not going to offer the tools I want (Bosch 12v rotary tool) in this country though it is others only because you already have a subsidiary offering a similar tool, then at least make the batteries compatible!
cb
I forgot the “that bothers me” in the first sentence. sorry!
Eric
Only a tool Marxist would want collective batteries or a bureau of power tools to FORCE a private innovator and job creator to make standard batteries through regulatory force of a global UN agenda. After all , it’s not “fair” that some have Festools and others black and decker… So EVERYONE gets a black and decker and a Bus pass if your YUGO is in for repairs…
tim Rowledge
I insist that all battery packs also fit my Black Helicopter and powered tinfoil hat!
Eric
I insist that those suffering from the mental disease of socialism be provided headlamps for tight caves. What is the difference between a democratic socialist and a soviet socialist, Bernie?
Stuart
Please try to stay focused on the tool discussion.
Eric
Ok Stuart. I was I feel making a valid analogy of the pros and cons and reasons for investment/risk/profit/loss/ etc. that I feel DO influence and justify proprietary batteries while we get remain consumers of products competitively manufactured. I did not mean to offend anyone but think about it friends, the diversity of products and choice under unregulated competition vs a monopoly of standardized boring clones which I really feel would result from I terchange battery standards..
Stuart
Possibly, but throw politics into a tool discussion and things will hardly ever end well.
RX9
Look man, I understand very clearly the dangers of Marxism and collectivization. There is no argument that’s a bad thing. Communism killed about 200 million people in the 20th century alone.
That said, a universal battery standard has not a thing to do with Marxism. In fact this argument is about as silly as saying that requiring all American schoolchildren to read and speak English is somehow an act of Marxism.
The fact is that most universal standard formats (whether they be things like the SAE thread pitch, the automotive tire code, USB, Ethernet, disposable battery sizes, car batteries, morse code, and so on) are:
1. Instituted by PRIVATE companies working together
2. In a VOLUNTARY way
3. To achieve greater economic efficiency (a primary goal in a CAPITALIST system) via standardization.
Think about it, standard systems are consistently developed in free market economies. The reason why is that standardization itself comes as a result of market forces.
Believe me, there are all kinds of REAL Marxist shenanigans out there (worth sounding the alarm about and dealing with), but commercial/industrial standardization practices are not Marxism.
fred
Nor is standardization necessarily a restraint of trade. There are lots of other ways for the toolmakers to provide innovation to set themselves and their tool offerings apart – and while it might be a bit Utopian to think it – maybe both the vendors and the consumers might win on this one.
Eric
Ok Rx7 and Fred, I agree to a point. I like standards like English, the. Constitution and the rule of law. I prefer the British units over the metric standard. I like the Ten Commandments and the golden rule. I like firearm ammunition standards so the ammo off the shelf fits my arms and I like the standards you mentioned for my threads and tools. But I am perfectly happy with buying a makita with a makita battery and charger and a Milwaukee with Milwaukee batteries. I just don’t care that I can’t walk into Walmart and get a Chinese lithium ion incendiary device for my drill or hover board just to save a buck. If I am that cheap I will get out my brace and bits or grab my corded tools which always kick ass once my lazy entitled fat American ass gets going…in fact thank God for my old super sawzall when it’s time to work, not play (credits to Metabo for that)
RX9
Chinese lithium ion incendiary device…heh.
Absolutely understand you on that point. No doubt there’s lots of dangerous crud coming out of Mao’s wonderland.
As you (and any AR-platform owner) can see, standardization can indeed be a good thing. I knew you’d come around eventually (You can always reason with patriots. The other folks, not so much.).
Out of respect for our humble host Stuart, back to the point of this post.
I believe when a tool battery standard comes along, it will be the battery companies themselves vying for your loyalty, kind of like the way it is with car batteries right now. You might be say a Ford man or a Chevy man, but when it comes time to replace the battery in your Mustang or Camaro, you’re looking between Exide, DieHard, Optima etc. The car companies (at least some of them) know how to build a car, but the car battery companies know how to build a car battery.
There will be good companies filling the battery niche, along with a few unsavory ones, but the point is that tool companies can get back to doing what they do best – making tools.
craig
My 2cents…same as standard wall out let why have all different types…standardize works then i will buy all types of cordless tools …ones for at home and professional ones work …no brainer and i can pick up good or fair batteries anywhere …cordless will defiantly be the tool to buy not locked in by a curtain battery
Dan
Not sure why all the hate for Marxists. We just want standard battery packs so we can stop worrying about which brand of tool to buy and get on with NOT MURDERING PEOPLE because Marxism is all about democratization and just because Stalin called himself a communist doesn’t make it so. ._.
But srsly OP of this thread obviously has a chip on his shoulder but otherwise wasn’t that far off. If power tools were designed for the sole purpose of being power tools rather than as a way to make a profit we’d see standardization a lot sooner because there’d be no reason not to make things within a range of power requirements as interchangeable as possible.
Stuart
I have a chip on my shoulder? I’m sorry, I thought I was just being open-minded and insightful.
Here’s the problem: people want a standard battery pack interface, but battery packs themselves are not standardized. You can bet that there will be some users trying to pair heavy duty tools with the smallest and cheapest batteries they can find, and then blaming the tool when it can’t get the job done.
Okay, so maybe battery packs should be standardized too, right? Maybe compact, heavy-duty, and extreme-duty. But than how does a heavy-duty battery from a DIYer brand compare to that of a pro-grade brand? Such a system would also make intra-brand compatibility much more complicated. What if I want to use a compact battery with the same brand’s circular saw, for just a few light cuts? If there are tiered standards that are only one-way compatible (such that you can put heavier duty batteries on lighter tools), that wouldn’t be possible.
Is profit a driving force? Perhaps, but it’s far from the only one.
As mentioned in the post, predictable performance is a huge factor. A standardized battery interface would be impossible without standardized battery packs, and I just don’t see that happening. It would only be possible if all battery packs were capable of powering the highest tool demands, which would leave out DIY and other lower-priced options. Sure, tools could come with minimum requirements, similar to computer games, but do you see that happening? I don’t.
Eric
I apologize to everyone, starting g with Stuart, I should not have been political and I am sorry.
Stuart
Not necessary, but appreciated. =)
I thought your first post was pretty humorous, actually, but even politics added in jest have the potential for lots of trouble.
Tomas
This isn’t exactly an apples for apples comparison, but I do hardware purchasing for IT and over the last three years Lenovo has kept their enterprise laptop batteries, docking stations and power cords the same. The uniformity of being able to hand one single battery out, or set up a loaner office with a universal dock is definitely a consideration I look at when purchasing new equipment. In fact, the last time I considered switching companies was when Lenovo was updating their accessories line. I figured if I had to swap out all the peripherals and plugs anyway it’s a good time to look at the competition. Now that all the accessories are unified it would be hard to swap to a competitor knowing there would be all new accessories that have to be replaced as well.
Carl Sampson
In addition to revenue from being the only seller of that battery type the proprietary power packs will lock-in customers to their platform of tools. If you already had Makita tools and battery packs you would more likely purchase another Makita tool than a competitor with a different power pack system.
This is the same reason that camera manufacturers generally have incompatible lens mounts so you will buy their next new model as other vendor offerings won’t work with the lenses you have right now.
Cr8ondt
Ok I’m going to take apart a 1.5 Ah Porter Cable and Black+Decker…. I’ll post photos in the discussion forum.
Creighton
https://discuss.toolguyd.com/t/this-is-inspired-by-the-toolguyd-battery-article/158/2
Adam
We have batteries of all sizes that are universal. We have car batteries that fit all makes and models. There are plenty of examples. If the manufacturers were pressured to do so they could make their tools work with universal batteries. But until a company tries and is supported by the market then there is no incentive.
Stuart
Yes, and some products are designed to work with those standardized non-rechargeable batteries.
Have you ever tried to find certain standardized batteries? The only brick & mortar store anywhere near me that carried LS-14250 cells was Radio Shack.
Power tool brands design their tools and batteries to work together as part of an ecosystem. None of them will redesign their entire product lines just to offer tools that are compatible with competitors’ batteries. And even if they had the money to throw at something like this, are retailers going to want to stock all those duplicate SKUs?
Mau
I don’t think companies should work for a standard battery format, they could do it for a charger platform, but in my opinion they should keep things as they are. They engineer the tool starting from the battery, ergonomics and power output comes from that piece. As an example, we never asked phone companies to standardise the battery format, we only did it for chargers.
Lenny
A universal battery will never happen. Tool companies compete fiercely with one another so it’s unrealistic to expect that they would ever work together. When they compete we win because prices stay competitive and they constantly try to one up each other with better products. Also, they want you to buy into their system and stay there. Once you’re invested in one brand it’s more likely you will stay with that brand rather than deal with the hassle of multiple batteries and chargers. If the batteries were interchangeable then there is no incentive to stick with one brand. Marketing 101.
RX9
Don’t say never. There are a ton of universal standards in place in the tool industry already.
-All corded tools in the same country use the same voltage and plug.
-Nearly all non-electric outdoor power equipment uses gas as fuel.
-The screws holding the tools together are in either metric or fractional format
-The power cells comprising the cordless tool batteries are of the same form factor (Sub-C in the NiCd era, and 18650 in the Li-ion era of today)
-Output and performance characteristics across tool classes are fairly standardized.
Nearly all consumables and bits are standardized:
a. All reciprocating saw blades use the same shank (originally developed by Milwaukee)
b. All jigsaw blades come in either T or U shank format.
c. All small rotary hammers use the SDS (Plus) format bit, (originally developed by Bosch), Most larger ones use SDS-Max or Spline
d. Most circular saw blades come in standard sizes, like 6.5″, 7.25″, 10″ and 12″.
e. Angle grinder wheel arbors are standardized at 5/8 and 7/8
f. Nearly all small electronic measuring tools use standard disposable battery sizes AA, AAA, 9v etc.
g. Router bit shank diameters are standardized at 1/4″ and 1/2″.
h. Although there are several oscillating tool bit formats out there, each manufacturer is going out of their way to make adapters for other brand’s bits.
Hang Fire
When talking about Porter Cable’s 18V abandonment, don’t forget Milwaukee and the V18 debacle. It didn’t affect so many because not so many people put out the big money for the new Lithium Ion V18 some years back, but those that did… I know one who bought the BIG set for big bucks… now own DeWalt, and will never look at a red tool again.
I don’t know any Milwaukee abandoned the V18 so quickly, but it coincided with TTi moving Milwaukee production overseas and shutting down all the US manufacturing plants.
Jason
I heard that the V18 product had a lot of durability problems in the batteries and tools itself. I’m sure that the TTI buy out was also a factor in the life of that lineup. Dewalt did the same thing with the 20v max launch they didn’t offer an adapter till 5 years later, and the Dewalt 18v linup was a million times more popular. They few V18 people that wrote off Milwaukee was nothing compared to the people that went to the M18 lineup from Dewalt XRP.
glenn
I can see many reasons why not , but I think 2 of the bigger ones would be profit and accountability, let alone the logistical nightmare of electronic protection systems that modern cordless tools have built in to either the battery or tool. I can’t see too many manufacturers agreeing on who has the best system.
If a manufacturer puts in their resources and financing to produce a tool and battery platform it would be reasonable to expect that they want a return on their investment.
Warranty would become a veritable minefield with manufacturers shifting blame. ie; your battery was not up to our standard or your tool caused the failure etc.
Chris
This is a bit off topic………….. but why is it that my 18v vacuum has less suction with a 4ah battery compared to when used with a 6ah battery. I’ve watched some you-tube videos where they do a comparison between impacts and are using different ah batteries on the tools and claim the different ah doesn’t affect the performance. In my experience the 6ah has much more suction power when used compared to the 4ah with my 18v vacuum.
Jerry
Generally speaking, the batteries with a higher rating also allow for a faster current flow. Chances are the smaller batteries are just maxing out before the vacuum is. My Ryobi 1/2 impact functions fine with a NiCad battery, and better with a lithium. However, full power only is achieved with the high performance lithium+ batteries.
JoeM
Lots of companies do go battery routes that go nowhere. DeWalt, just before they released the 20 Volt Max family, released a Lithium-Ion 18 Volt XRP battery that was 100% compatible with the 18 Volt line. Then the 20 Volt family came in, and the 18 Volt line went back to NiCD batteries. You can still find the XRP Lithium-Ion batteries out there, but they’re very rare creatures in some places.
Don’t hold your breath for inter-company compatibility. As I mentioned earlier, the Fewer the Variables, the Fewer the Points of Failure. For THAT reason, Tool Companies will NOT go Inter-Operable batteries. It introduces Service-Side issues FAR in excess of the unmanageable. Too many Variables, Not worth the Risk.
Anton
I disagree. I think it would be beneficial for everyone for everyone standardize battery configurations. Electronics have done this with aaa, aa, 18650, etc and there are plenty of high discharge applications such as flashlights and cameras. The people that buy them know that they will have to spend more for batteries to match the performance of the product.
Pretty much the only thing that would be nessesary would be a discharge rating for batteries as well as Ah ratings.
The cross compatibility would help everyone:
1 big name brands would see more sales of drill combos. People will be less hesitant to upgrade the tools they use most often.
2 value brands will see more sales of single tools from people that already own a name brand drill combo.
3 new manufacturers will enter the market easier because they wont need battery development.
Big name brands really have no interest in this, but the smaller manufacturers might be able to pull it off perhaps rallying around the ryobi standard since I believe it has all the protections built in the battery already. Once there is momentum, the big ones will switch over as well.
Ill bring up two personal examples of how it would benefit me.
1 I’m getting rid of my only dewalt drill right now and a very nice 6 piece Bosch set at home and standardizing on Ryobi since i already have 6 batteries and they run my gardening tools except for mower as well. I would love to keep them but the bosch batteries are dead and I refuse to keep a single dewalt even though is my only drill with a perfectly straight chuck currently.
2 I’ve been putting off buying 12v sets for my company to use for assembly and to keep permanently in the vehicles because I cant commit to a single brand yet. With standardized ones, I probably would have bought at least 2 sets already. Actually I did buy a Nextec right angle on clearance but am regretting it now since it looks like they’re killing it off.
Stuart
I know it’s not quite what you mean when you talked about battery pack development, but I believe that the major battery manufacturers offer battery pack services to companies who don’t have the resources to do this themselves.
I am sure that, if the order is high enough, they’ll build battery packs to your exact specifications.
http://www.samsungsdi.com/lithium-ion-battery/power-devices/power-tool.html
Get fully supported by exclusive power tool pack development team. Samsung SDI has a team committed to developing packs for power tools, and responds to customer demands in a professional and timely manner.
And there are always partnership opportunities, such as what Chicago Pneumatic seems to have done with TTi, seeing is how they use a similar battery pack interface as Ridgid: – https://toolguyd.com/chicago-pneumatic-cordless-power-tools/ . The CP pack is said to offer features and specs not found in Ridgid 18V battery packs.
RX9
You know Stewart, it looks like there has been a sort of quasi-standardization happening anyway, in the the form of both A. smaller toolmakers adopting/licensing popular battery formats, and B. different brands (sometimes even ones not under the same corporate umbrella) sharing the same physical format.
Examples include:
Dewalt 20V format-
Used by MAC, Facom
Dewalt 12V format-
Used by MAC, Facom, Bostitch (carton staplers)
Ridgid 18V format-
Used by AEG, Chicago Pneumatic
Black and Decker 20V format-
Used by Chapin (sprayers), Porter Cable 20V line (with minor modification)
Ryobi 20V format-
Used by Surebonder (glue guns)
Milwaukee 12V format-
Used by Rennsteig (crimping tools)
Jerry
Just a final thought from me here. Looking at the new ToolGuyd post, I see that PC now has cordless trim nailers/staplers but no framing nailer. DeWalt has cordless framing nailers, but no trim nailers. If there were battery cross comparability, one could have it all, so to speak, within one family of tools. Even if the framing nailers took a DeWalt battery for best performance, how hard would it be to put a sticker on it saying that using a PC or B&D battery will reduce performance? Ryokbi ha tools that work, but h derperform using their older or lower capacity batteries, and have the tool packaging and online description to read that the tool will only perform at its best using the Lithium+ batteries (my 1/2 impact said 35% higher performance right on the box). I suppose some people don’t mind multiple battery platforms, but I am going away from it wherever I can.
Tojen1981
Speaking of tool batteries, any word on the holdup of the Milwaukee 6/9 ah batteries? Was supposed to be released in January and still no sign of them anywhere online.
Oliver (six-point socket)
Predictable performance is surely an important and understandable factor, but yet I fail to understand why there hasn’t been a standardization of power tool batteries long ago. It would have made life so much easier. Then again, in my opinion it’s too late now anyway – most people are heavily invested in one to three types of batteries/volt classes and won’t replace those in one big step.
Where I see a chance, but maybe it’s too late, too is wireless charging. If the manufacturers could unite on a standard for the actual chargers and their charging rates/technique one could have 1 charger for all volt classes and batteries or at least one charger per volt class for all batteries. Manufacturers could still develop their own “super batteries” only the charging technique would have to be the same as all the others…
Dave Pickell
I think rechargeable is going to be the wave of the near future and – just as flashlight batteries found their way to a standard, so must high output rechargeable batteries. Not just for chopsaws, but for TVs, toasters, lamps, kettles.
There need to be voices raised in the user community to praise and reward manufacturers who embrace an open standard of voltage, footprint, and connection, and sequester manufacturers who insist, over time, on the pervasive proprietary model.
Moonman
Stuart has a very valid point in commercial sense. Standardized system will make buying cost for consumers lower that, in turn, lead into increased sales for makers.
But, there is another important reason we must standardize for the good of human race including cordless power tool users and its makers. Batteries have a relatively short life expectancy, and the majority ends up in landfills. While we have yet to invent a comprehensive way to recycle them, the impact may be detrimental to the environment which can affect the well-being of our generation and generations after.
Makers have argued the standardization would take tolls on the peak performance of their cordless tools. But, we have seen that before when the regulation put a stop on the leaded gas sales. Auto makers cried out the performance of engines would suffer and cause all kinds of problem for the car. Look what has happened. Reliability and performance have gotten better ever, and we get to breath better.
dude man
Article make illogical arguments. Many tools, toys, etc run off standardized AA, AAA, CR, etc batteries without issue. From an engineering standpoint tool batteries could easily be standardized. The article argues tool companies don’t do this because of “optimal” performance issues. Like car parts, don’t use oem if you want the for sure thing and don’t like to do research, etc. Voltage is Voltage, and there’s not much after that. Along with standardizing the battery format, they could easily standardize the protection circuits. I ripped apart an Echo battery charger and put it in an electric bike. Works perfect, and done in my garage in a few hours. Surely the major tool companies are better engineers than me. I stopped buying cordless power tools because I don’t want 50 different brands of chargers sitting around, not to mention the batteries. Basically, they’ve dug themselves a whole that they can’t get out of, screwing the user in the process. What needs to happen, is someone needs to wise up, and come out with a low cost universal adapter kit to bridge between tool and battery and end the insanity.
Stuart
Over the years, I’ve seen a lot of complaints about AA, AAA, and even CR123A battery form factors.
Someone used dirt-cheap AA batteries in their camera, and blamed the camera for draining them super-fast. I sometimes hear complaints about alkaline batteries in higher performance battery packs, which are often optimized or NiMh or lithium batteries.
Sure, there are standard sizes, but also different levels of performance within those sizes. Product manufacturers tell users what they need to use, but not everyone listens.
18V is 18V, but what’s going to happen when a user insists on using a 5-cell Black & Decker battery pack with their heavy duty Milwaukee, Dewalt, or Makita tool that is usually paired with a 10-cell battery?
Even if you have a standardized interface, and standardized electronics, there will be lots of users who either don’t understand battery spec requirements, or they want to use the cheapest battery packs anyways.
It’s be a mess, and a huge increase in returns and mistaken service requests would lead to higher prices for everyone.
Darwin
Ok, tell me why you can buy a AAA, AA, C, D, 6V (made up of the previous combos), 9V, and then a limited variety of automotive batteries that can serve MANY different applications with MANY different performance expectations, but you can’t do the same for tool batteries. To me it is crap. Fine if you have different voltages, but that is even debatable with the way dc tools can handle voltage. It is time we can buy our tools from any manufacturer and we shouldn’t need to buy brand-specific batteries. In my case, I have 12 and 18 volt Ridgid and 12 and 18 volt Milwaukee. Too many batteries, but each has specific tools. Add to that, I have 18 volt (Canadian Tire) Yardworks and 40V Greenworks (Canadian Tire). Such a waste.
Bill
Me thinks you is a bit too quick to defend the status quo. Remember when cell phones had 20 different AC adapter connectors? It took a law change to fix that nonsense. And just because your Apple products don’t allow access to batteries doesn’t mean other manufacturers don’t. Wake up and look around. Sure, manufacturers will milk this as long as they can, but the fact is batteries are expensive to dispose of and if this cost is eventually passed on to manufacturers and consumers, the economics (and law) might change things.
Stuart
And now, cell phones have difficult to replace proprietary built-in batteries.
Like it or not, things are the way they are for a reason.
freeze
Someone needs to remind tool manufacturers that its clamps that you can never have to many of, not battery chargers. 🙂
I would applaud tool manufacturers to test the idea of battery standardization. Maybe start small by rolling out a limited line of tools under one battery voltage(say 12v) under a new CO model (crossOver model. similar to a consumer or pro model lines) line. This way no matter what company made the tool, as long as the tool was from the manufacturers CO model line you could be sure that any battery from the CO model line would plug and play. Then if this becomes popular you could increase the number of dif tools and battery voltages that are part of the CO model line. Who knows, maybe as a result of companies reallocating the time and resources used for battery development we would end up with a better tool?
Of course I can’t say if indeed battery standardization is the best solution or not, but I’m damn sure the last thing I need is another battery charger.
Joe Duarte
Chiming in five years later after Googling this very question… I don’t understand your argument Stuart. What is different about cordless tools that would justify this chaotic and expensive non-standardization of batteries? I can’t think of another example of products where batteries are not standardized, except for products where the batteries are non-removable, which wouldn’t apply here.
You said:
“Again, it’s about predictable performance. The technology and cells that go into a Black & Decker battery pack are going to be much different than those that go into a Dewalt battery pack.”
But that argument would need to be filled in with details. What about standardization would make batteries less predictable? And how do the technology and cells differ across tool brands, and why would those differences matter? These companies aren’t battery companies. They don’t invent new chemistries. Even if they did have their own technology, they could just offer it in the marketplace like anything else. If DeWalt had batteries that lasted 20% longer, either per charge or number of lifetime cycles, well they could offer those to customers at whatever price made sense, and people could make the usual decisions about price and value.
Standardization would be easy, and would likely focus on parameters like voltage and current, like battery standards generally do. They’d also have to work out the physical interfaces, which would be trickier, but that shouldn’t constrain the physical designs and form factors of the tools. Reason: Tool batteries are usually externally mounted appendages, not internal, so they’d work fine with a lot of different shapes of tools, leaving tool design open for innovation. If it’s just a puck that extends the hand grip, it should be fine, and shapes could even vary around a common interface at the contacts.
Batteries would vary on capacity (per use longevity) and lifetime longevity (number of cycles to some benchmark reduced capacity, like 70%). They already vary on capacity, e.g. you can get a DeWalt 20-volt DCB205 spec at 5.0 Ah, or 6.0 Ah, or 4.0 Ah, etc. They could also vary on chemistry, charging speed, temp ratings, and assorted other factors. All the tool would care about was the voltage/current and physical contact interface.
In your write-up you also seemed to assume that we have to get our batteries from the tool maker. Some of your argument assumed that they had to make the batteries in order for them to perform properly or something. I don’t know if things were different in 2016, but that’s not the case anymore. There are many, many third-party battery suppliers on places like Amazon that make exact spec batteries for DeWalt, B&D, etc. The ones I’ve seen have lots of excellent reviews. Prices are typically about half what the OEMs charge. (Random example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLPXN9N) This was inevitable so long as the OEMs didn’t kneecap their tools by using some sort of electronic chip that locks people into their overpriced batteries, like the computer printer makers tried to do with ink (or Keurig with their coffee pods). Batteries aren’t special, and the tool makers aren’t battery companies – the OEM and third-party batteries might actually be from the same factory, or even the same exact product save for the coloring/branding.
The third parties have saved a lot of people a lot of money, but the situation would be even better if the industry converged on a set of battery standards – less fragmentation, better economies of scale for everyone.
Stuart
You say:
You are assuming that they are “exact spec.” They are not. Last time I asked a brand about this, they talked about differences in safety designs. Knock-off batteries spoof the connection but don’t necessarily built to the same specs or quality.
Are those knockoff batteries UL-rated or safety tested by any 3rd party company?
Digital cameras have their own battery sizes. Canon, Sony, and Panasonic all have their ow proprietary battery formats. Some 3rd party brands design knock-off batteries, and some 3rd party brands make devices to use the same battery form factor.
These days there’s a lot more to the tool-battery handshake than there used to be.
Different tool brands’ battery and tool systems handle safety sensors and communications in a different manner, and there is no easy way to implement perfect cross-brand compatibility.
Why haven’t the knock-off brands come out with a universal power system yet?
Cordless power tool makers design their tools around their batteries, and some occasionally launch new batteries to support new tools.
Maybe there will eventually be a brand that creates a 3rd party battery system with “DIY,” “Pro,” and “Max” performance specs, along with adapters for all the brands’ tools. The knockoff brands can do this, but they haven’t yet.
You’re not going to see a universal power system from tool brands, and knockoff 3rd party “replacement” battery makers either aren’t the least bit interested or haven’t conquered the tech challenges yet.
Erick
“Why haven’t the knock-off brands come out with a universal power system yet?”
They don’t control the physical connections. They do make adapters though.
Stuart
There is no shortage of “replacement battery” brands on Amazon, ebay, and elsewhere.
A universal battery might involve a 3rd party brand offering 2-piece battery + interchangeable adapter system, something they too are capable but unwilling to do.
Erick
You don’t need a universal battery if you have adapters, something they do make.
Kyle Johnson
I kind of disagree.
Think about technology companies. Google built Android operating system, since it was way better than any other phone maker’s proprietary software. companies adopted it in their best interest Google did it soo much better, it was in the interest of LG/Samsung/HTC..etc to adopt it, since it actually separated these phone makers phones from all the other crap proprietary software on the market at that time..
Example – Lets say Tesla/Panasonic chose to do this. they could focus on a exceptionally great batter pack, and mechanism for tools.. then say “here you go” to the tool companies, “use this and adopt this standard”.. if its 100 times better than the existing proprietary systems, then those who adopt it, will win. Tesla/Panasonic wins, tool company wins, consumer wins. All other tool companies then adopt
Eljay
I agree and think not only does the idea work it could help improve both technologies for example if the name brand companies focused only on improving their power tools leaving a standard battery port while another company focused on making and improving battery packs that fit into said port that seems like a win-win-win to me power tool company saves money from improving batteries and whether a new business provides the battery packs or an existing battery maker expands to include power tools both would have more time and money to be innovative and the consumer while initially might seem to lose having to buy a battery pack and the power tool will realize that when they need a different or upgraded power tool they already have the battery packs and charger’s they need and vice versa if they buy an upgraded longer lasting battery pack they can use it in the tools they already own
Dmitry
The thing is, all packs consist of 3 or more standard 18650 cells that can be purchased anywhere and maintained with standard li-ion packs charger with a balance port. Nowadays, they all are about the same and standard inside. I do understand all your arguments, but
“what reasons do brands have to standardize their battery packs?”
Exactly! What was the reason for gadgets to get USB Mini, Micro, and not Type-C? Why Europe enforces all Phone manufactures to have Type-C support? Because we, customers, need this. And government have to do the same regarding power tools! Just enforce common connectors and size for 3S (11V), 4S (15V) and 5S (18V). This will solve everything, including marketing of the voltage. One brand prints 10V on 3S while another prints 12V on same 3S! They are same inside and in DIY RC world it is common to use “storage” median voltage based on 3.7v per cell. With careful engineering it is possible to came up with extendable standard that specifies how to extend connector for a larger number of cells. Yes, battery market will change a lot, but same happened with phone chargers long time ago, nobody uses original phone charger… Same happened to car chargers, it is a separate market of car chargers nowadays, that goes well beyond to what Tesla offers. We just need a law enforcement for this.
Stuart
18650 cells can have very different charge capacity and performance characteristics.
Battery packs can have very different cooling characteristics and many brands employ different safety sensors and thresholds.
This is not the same as RC battery packs, which are barely more than Li-ion cells packaged together.