I shopped at Chads Toolbox for what I believe is the first time in a whopping 14 years.
I had mixed experiences in the past, and their lower prices finally enticed me to give them another shot.
This time around, I ordered 2 tools – the Knipex plastic wire duct cutter shown above, and a Wera screwdriver that isn’t shown here.
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The Wera screwdriver was wrapped in brown paper and taped, and the Knipex tool was in its box.
I’m pretty annoyed that the ~$150 Knipex tool was bent out of shaped due to poor packaging.
The thin box is meant for warehouse stacking, shelf placement, or shipping within a larger box.
Chads Tool box wrapped it with thin plastic and sent it off via USPS.
I bent the fence back into shape with pliers. It’s not at all square, but I don’t think it’s worth the hassle of a return and rebuy.
Frankly, I’m really annoyed. While the Wera screwdriver was wrapped with a little more attention, everything was packaging inside a thin plastic bag.
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I ordered from Chads Toolbox instead of Amazon because I wanted to avoid haphazard shipping.
Both Amazon and KC Tool – my go-to for Knipex ever since Amazon shipped me used and damage pliers as new – have it for more. I could have gotten it for less from overseas Amazon storefronts, but I didn’t want to risk having to deal with tariffs and customers now that de minimis exclusions have been removed.
I might need to bend the fence back into shape a little bit more.
I know it’s not a big deal, but I don’t think this reintroduction went very well.
Where do you get your Knipex tools from?
Clay
Woot has them sometimes (which is basically Amazon) and I have bought from them.
Locally, i have bought Knipex from Menards.
CA
Harry Epstein has always packaged their stuff with care and their shipping charges are fair.
CA
Of course I do understand they don’t offer as wide of range of Knipex products that KC Tool does.
Stuart
Harry Epstein Co are good people.
mark w
Always a great experience with HJE and they do NOT skimp on the packaging. I found their” 14″ WW2 era ADCO mechanical fingers” recently and should arrive soon. The reviews say it grips so well you can use it to *start* hex fasteners.
They have some of the most interesting tools Ive found.
Will
Since they carry Top brand adjustable wrenches, I thought it would be cool to bring in a Lobster hybrid adjustable wrench I bought from ebay to show them. They gathered round behind the desk and passed it around and seemed impressed by it. Told me they’d talk to their supplier in Japan and see what options they might have to ship some in. Even if nothing comes from it, it’s still pretty cool that they will honestly consider it.
Will Klusener
I feel lucky that I can just drive downtown and peruse their store. It’s like I’m in the scene in the original Willie Wonka movie where they open the tiny door and step into the candy forest.
ITCD
HJE sent me something in a repurposed Wright box. I dig it, reuse a perfectly good box which is more environmentally friendly and I really like Wright tools. Win/win.
Gestione Sportiva
I’ve purchased almost 90 % of all my Knipex from Chads Tool Box. I keep going back to them due to their lower than average prices and so long as I purchase over $100 at a time, no shipping cost and always no tax. At times they have been lower than amazon.de
Their packaging has always been as you described. They don’t really take much effort in packaging and majority of the time it’s just wrapped in brown paper, taped and just dropped in a bubble packaged USPS envelope. Thankfully I haven’t had to get anything delicate so they’ve arrived undamaged.
Stuart
This wasn’t even a bubble mailer!
TomD
Something changed in the last five years – USPS would have rejected “crap in a bag” but I think pressure from Amazon and friends mean they now accept it.
Bubble mailers and boxes are “somewhat” expensive at scale so bargain places are obviously skimping.
https://www.uline.com/BL_2417/Uline-Economy-White-Poly-Bubble-Mailers
Maybe fifty cents or so per mailing, adds up.
Though that damage would probably have happened through a bubble mailers; looks like something heavy was on top of it in the wrong place.
I’d return and get a replacement – the ONLY way they’ll ever change is if shipping damage replacements are eating into their profits.
Bonnie
The timeline connects with Louis DeJoy taking over USPS and doing a bunch of “modernization”.
Gestione Sportiva
Now that’s tacky and lazy!!
KMR
The problem with free shipping from smaller and even some large companies is that it entices them to cut corners to try and preserve as much profit margin as possible. This often results in inadequate and poor packaging, and very often inventory/stock boxes end up serving double duty as inappropriate shipping boxes.
Proper shipping boxes cost significantly more than mailer bags, and the price of cardboard boxes has increased considerably in recent years.
Labor time costs money. The more complex the packaging method, the more time it takes, the more labor expense is put into each shipment. Not to mention training the employees on how to prepare items, which is often not done and I often believe the employees just don’t care because it is such a low wage job. You can’t tell me the packer for Target doesn’t know that putting two jars of Rao’s pasta sauce in a box with just airbags as fill will result in a mess. I’ve had this happen multiple times.
With regard to product packaging that is meant just for inventory/stock use, well, I’ve got a story to tell you there. Two years ago a local tire shop damaged the wheel of my wife’s new $100k Italian SUV. They agree to pay for a new wheel, but US dealers want $4400 for a new wheel (very high end wheel, forged by Fuchs in Germany). So I found that the OE wheel was 1/3 of the price in Europe. Ordered one… it arrives in a large heat sealed black bag over the very thin inventory/stock box the wheel was already in. Of course the wheel’s paint didn’t survive the transatlantic trip intact, and I paid a reasonable amount for shipping! So it isn’t just US companies that do half-assed packing. Another annoyance is that the majority of European cardboard is almost all 100% recycled previously, little virgin coarse paper pulp, so European cardboard is very soft and weak.
Our free shipping threshold is $400 on the ecommerce site for my business. This insures that the order already had adequate margin that we can accept the expense of providing free shipping, while insuring we do a quality job packaging the customer’s order. I have trained my shipping staff well, they’re paid well above minimum wage, and I stress to them that I would rather they spend a few extra minutes to pack an item properly than have an upset customer call and need us to send out the same shipment a second time to rectify damage.
fred
I had mixed experiences with Chads too. My past issues were more about delays in shipping (hard to tell what was in stock versus what was on long-lead-time back order). Perhaps their website is now more informative.
As for others – I’ve been pleased with handling/shipping from Acme, HJ Epstein and KCTool. Amazon has been hit and miss – but returns (usually at a nearby Whole Foods) are easy. I recently ordered a 3-meter Makita track saw rail (194367-7) from Amazon as a gift. At nearly 10 feet long I had more than a little trepidation about its free shipping. While several reviews on Amazon complained about it arriving bent and unusable – the price $234.99 (after a promotion coupon) with free shipping was compelling. Acme sells it for $324.99 but adds $399 for handling. Anyway, the recipient received it inside Makita’s plywood and Masonite crate in perfect condition. He called to say that a big Ryder truck had pulled in his driveway on a Saturday to make the delivery. My take on this is that our package delivery system can be hit or miss – even with competent packaging. Some customer pictures on Amazon show what looks like the same wood crate that my nephew described – broken open with the guide rail bent so far as to be worthless.
Stuart
That was a concern here too. The screwdriver was in stock and the specialty tool didn’t have any info. But luckily it arrived relatively quickly without my having to nag them for an ETA.
I ordered new model NWS pliers for one of my earlier orders and received the older version.
Those and some other reasons are why it took me so long to give them another try.
Bonnie
Acme has shipped me tools in their retail boxes, but they were the heavier duty display boxes that some tool companies use rather than the thin stocking boxes. So no harm no foul there and I’m happy to have less needless cardboard to dispose of.
Amazon has zero consistency in basically anything they do these days. They’ll use their own in-house delivery, USPS, UPS/FedEx/DHL, and gig drivers in clapped out civics all seemingly at random (it does actually make sense in their backend dispatch system I’m sure, but isn’t evident from a consumer perspective).
I’ll add McFeeley’s to the list of good packaging, always well tessellated and wrapped up inside a solid box. Conversely I’ll put PlumbersStock.com on the list of crappy shippers (13 fittings on my order had either fallen out of the empty box everything was rattling around in or were forgotten at the packing stage).
It’s not practical for a lot of businesses, but when I had a little e-commerce store I made quaility packaging and shipping one of my advertising/selling points, and it seemed to resonate with a niche customer base and got a surprising number of reviews.
Stuart
Shipping power tools in retail packages is an industry trend that nobody is pleased about, but those boxes are typically designed and rated for such purposes.
Nathan
Being in the shopping industry adjacent I’ll just say that you didn’t pay for shipping so they didn’t care. Free shipping deals and other low price shipping is never marked for careful handling or packaged well. From that I can see
Stuart
A few years ago I read the terms of service at a specific online store. If you opt for free shipping and a package is lost, stolen, or tremendously damaged, they’ll deal with it. If you pay for upgraded shipping, you’re on the hook for dealing with it.
I’ve seen terrible packaging from a lot of companies whether shipping was included or paid for.
Unless you know for certain that Chads Toolbox would have packed my order more carefully if I paid for expedited shipping, you can’t say this is what to expect with the free shipping option.
KMR
We deal with the “responsible party” issue for shipping damage by allowing the customer to purchase optional shipping insurance during our checkout.
$1.33 per $100 of order value, which is reasonably close to the the actual cost of shipping insurance.
In reality, we almost never have to deal with damaged shipments. As I stated in my earlier comment, we have taken a stance not to skimp on quality packaging and shipping standards.
Stuart
I’ve seen some independent shops tack on 3rd party insurance, and I hate it.
Prometheus Lights, for example, charged $12.32 shipping on my $192.75 order and “route protection” was a separate line item at $4.75.
Some stores make it very difficult to remove “route protection” and there are stories about problems if you decline it.
I’d rather stores bake insurance into the shipping fees.
KMR
So your total shipping expense on that Prometheus Light order was still less than 10% of the product value. The base shipping was likely very reasonable, if not provided near actual shipping cost for the business.
Like most consumers, I think you need to re-evaluate your expectations for shipping.
On rebuilt items we sell, customers have 45 days to return their core (the old part we need back). Customers can purchase a shipping label from us, or they can do their own shipping. We even tell them they can go to a discount shipping service reseller, like PirateShip.
You should input the shipping details for that Prometheus order into something like PirateShip and really see what it costs just for the shipping service, outside of packaging, outside of packaging labor.
Stuart
It annoys me when 3rd party “route protection” is practically a compulsory upsell, or when I pay $25 in shipping fees only for a box to be snail-mailed with a $5 price on the USPS box.
It’s been a slow process to move from “woo free shipping on everything!!!” to “okay, that’s reasonable,” over the years. I know how much it costs to ship things, although weirdly I often get better public/retail rates at UPS than my discounted account.
Does free shipping justify skimping on packaging? Reasonable care should be taken to avoid preventable damage, whether shipping is extra or baked into the price.
In this case, with Chad’s, I’m annoyed but trying to be understanding.
I’ve had a lot of issues with shipping damage this past year because too many companies moved to thin plastic-wrapped packaging. Product boxes (snacks, LEGO sets) arrive smashed. Tools arrive dented or scraped up. Items arrived broken. And that’s whether shipping is free/included or paid for separately.
KMR
Route Protection is proprietary 3d party service.
https://route.com/
As you noted, it is designed as basically a forced upsell. This is the business’ choice to use this method, but also likely because it is one of the easier shipping insurance integrations into their ecommerce platform. With most ecommerce sites moving to 3rd party closed systems, businesses have less flexibility in customizing the shopping experience. Use a browser plugin like “wappalyzer” to see how many sites now use Shopify as their platform.
I’ve refused to do this. The shipping insurance example I gave for our ecommerce site, $1.33 per $100 order value is a simple opt-out check box during checkout. This required required a bit of custom written code to accomplish with the ecommerce software use on our own servers.
fred
I guess that we all know (or should know) that there is no real thing as free shipping. Amazon builds the shipping cost into their prices. Their volumes and charges for Prime membership certainly help offset the overall cost that we pay for any single item. I’m sure that they have algorithms that calculate the amount that they need to build into the price of each item they sell for shipping. They don’t charge more to ship to a remote farm in Wyoming than to a home that’s across the street from one of their distribution centers. So, we all have some median or average shipping cost built into our price.
But if you want to buy in bulk, on many items the Amazon “free shipping” model costs you more – as the shipping cost for 1 item is just multiplied across the bulk order. This can be particularly apparent when you buy things like insert bits. We used to buy them in bulk (hundreds of various types at a time). The MRO supplier we used would stuff about as many as would fit into a USPS Priority mail flat rate box – use yards of clear tape to prevent the box from splitting open and just add the USPS price to the invoice. This model worked well for insert bits because of their good packing factor and very low probability for damage in transport.
Bonnie
Charging the customer separately in order to back your shipping just feels cheap to me when I encounter it. As a consumer my perspective is the store needs to take responsibility up until the product is in my hands.
Chris
I’ll vouch for Zoro here. Nothing but good service from them. Love the coupons, love the reasonable delivery time. (Usually 2-3 days after ordering)
MM
My oldest Knipex tool is a CoBolt cutter I bought as a walk-customer in a hardware store in Denmark in the 1990’s. I bought it to cut hardened steel pushrods for R/C models. I haven’t touched an R/C model in twenty years but I still use those CoBolts often. They are an original ‘epiphany tool’.
More recently I’ve bought Knipex from HJE, Amazon, KC Tool, McMaster-Carr, and Allied Electronics.
James
I love my CoBolts. I have 1 pair of the smaller size (maybe there’s many sizes??) in my major tool bag and I really don’t use them often but every single time I do it’s such a joy. Sometimes I’ll offer for the customer or another person to try them out and without fail they are just as impressed as I’ve always been.
MM
As I understand it, for the longest time there was only one size, 200mm/8in. However there are now sizes from 160 to 250mm. There are a lot of variations in the jaws too:
The -R “Robust” variation has lower jaw hardness so it can be used for bending and prying.
There is a notched edge version which is supposed to be optimized for cutting round objects because it allows you to get the workpiece closer to the pivots for better mechanical advantage. The notches also act to prevent the workpiece from slipping out of the jaws while you cut.
There is an angle-headed variation that is semi-flush cutting.
There is also an end-cutting version, also semi-flush cutting. Knipex doesn’t call it a CoBolt but it uses the same mechanism. It is part no 61 01 200. Project Farm did a test of various end cutters a few weeks back and this one completely dominated the competition and even cut hex keys and drill bits.
They are amazing. The cut capacity is incredible given the size of the tool, and they are more are precise and lighter than you might think. Calling them “bolt cutters” implies they have rather limited application but they’re really very useful.
Matt_T
Most of my Knipex is from Zoro. Looks like Home Depot also carry some online. They’re a couple options that pack properly and ship quickly IME.
Whilst this is definitely a failure on Chads part Knipex are also partly responsible IMO. Using barely adequate for warehousing packaging on something fragile which is pretty much always shipped to the end user is ridiculous.
Adam
I couldn’t remember if I had CTB still bookmarked, but I knew the name sounded familiar. I guess I never loved the layout, however with pricing lately, I’ll be comparison shopping them.
I do see they have a scratch & dent area of the site. Perhaps the Knipex should have been listed there
Plain+Grainy
Menards has a small selection of Knipex. Mostly pliers, wire rope cutters, ect.
jeffrey robbins
Ahhh, Chad’s Tool Box. I have ordered a bunch from them, and been let down a few times too. The best (or worst) was 3 pairs of twin grips I ordered at the end of October for holiday presents for friends. I watched as the order was processed, and left Alaska. Then it headed to Hawaii. Then off to NJ, and it got within 30 minutes of my house before it went back to Alaska. I reached out to Chad’s and it turns out they used a “dirty” box, and had not removed the last label, and for the first bunch of destinations the package had travelled my address was scanned, and at the last stop, the box got flipped and it went back to Alaska.
Needless to say, I did not have the pliers in time for the holidays.
Chads has an infuriating website, but a deep selection, and has good prices. I do feel punished when choosing free shipping, and sometimes a bit grumpy at the “every time you order from a small business we do a happy dance” when my stuff can’t make it from their warehouse to my porch .
I will still consider them, but I can
Bobby
I usually use KC Tool (because I must collect all their stickers) but on a one time order when KC was out of stock. I got it from Mr. Tools, seemed sketchy but they kept popping up in tool ads. Took a gamble on them and it turned out well, decent shipping, arrived packed in a shipping box and they had a lower price than KC.
Jronman
For the common items Menards is about a good place as any. Not a huge selection but enough for the basics. I tend to get my Knipex from KC Tool because of the larger selection.
ElectroAtletico
My city’s electrical/plumbing/hvac supply stores are the place to go. They don’t stock any damaged or scuffed tools. You always get perfect – and if it aint just go back and they give you a new one no questions asked.
Tools trucks that I see around town are also a good place, albeit a bit pricey, but when you need it you suck it up and get it.
So, the moral of the story for you kids out there: Try the supply store.
Stuart
This is not the type of tool most supply houses would be expected to carry.
I’ve never seen cable ducts sold at supply houses, let alone cable duct cutters.
James
Often they’ll have access to the SKU and can bring anything in from a manufacturer for customers with accounts.
For us, there’s a couple tool stores here in Quebec that, while a retail store by definition, operate exactly like our supply stores in terms of processing custom orders. They don’t operate like a supply store in terms of discount however, so not the places for price shopping. For us, we’re buying tools generally because we need them specifically for an upcoming job so quality and accuracy of delivery trumps price provide they’re in a competitive range.
fred
We had a version from MCC (Japan) – their DCM90:
https://www.amazon.com/MCC-DCM-90-DCM90/dp/B002J4U4GK?th=1
We also had a Panduit DFCT (made by Merry Tools in Japan)
nippers designed to cut wiring duct uprights.
The Merry sells for a lot less than the rebadged Panduit
https://www.nilemerry.com/DK55-Duct-Cutters
Stuart
Thanks! I had the Panduit DCT on my shopping list for the longest time, but found the Knipex, and it was more convincing.
Matt_T
That Panduit DCT appears to be a Merry SX15 at a hefty mark-up!!!! Probably not as nice as the Knipex but a lot cheaper with Merry branding. I’m also wondering if a ~$20 shoe mold/trim cutter would work on wire duct??
https://www.nilemerry.com/merry/duct-mould-cutters
FWIW our better local electrical supply does sell wire duct and could order in the Panduit cutters. Not something you’d ever see though because it’s delivered to industrial accounts not sold across the counter. I doubt the counter guy even knows what it is LOL.
Stuart
Wow, that’s a huge difference. Makes me glad I went with the Knipex.
Knipex sometimes rebrands tools also, and is also an OEM for other brands. It looks like theirs is also available from Rennsteig, but I couldn’t find that version for appreciably less.
fred
Compared to what we paid 15 years ago – today’s asking prices seems to equate to increases way more than the stated inflation rate
chip hershberger
To answer your question for Knipex its 90% Amazon, 9% KC,and a single tool from Chads.
Based off of Garage Journal I purchased 22″ cobras in 2009 for $90 (don’t remember where),today’s price is $126 before tax…which isn’t a huge increase in 17 years.
I guess I’ve been a unicorn and haven’t had any shipping issues, despite buying 80% non-groceries online.
My last big purchase was an 8ft Sola level from Acme that arrived unscathed.
Also a huge shout out to Makita and Milwaukee for their double walled cardboard boxes,they’re much better packaged than appliances.
Rick
– EngineerSupply, who offer free shipping on many Knipex tools.
– KC Tool.
– Lowe’s (just once, when they agreed to a price match because I didn’t want to wait for delivery).
No bad experiences at all.
Woot seem to have good deals on Knipex tools regularly, but I’m wary about their sourcing and return policies.
I’m a bit surprised that Home Depot and Lowe’s are barely mentioned in the comments here.
Daniel
I didn’t count, but I’ve probably have over 100 pairs of Knipex. Love them.
Purchased a ton of from KC-Tool back when ToolGuyd was the promo code. Saving me 10% every time and their free shipping has always been packaged well and arrived quickly.
The Home Depot has had great prices on Knipex. Their shipping is decent. Always came in a corrugated box. Almost always comes in 1 or 2 days.
I think I’ve bought every pair Menards sells. Prices are good when you factor in their on going 11% rebate.
Steve
I had a bad experience with Chad’s years ago, too. Very expensive order that was packed terribly and arrived damaged, as well as one of them being defective or previously returned (don’t remember, it’s been so long). It was several different NWS or similar pliers and cutters.
He then acted very angry when I wanted to return the damaged German tools. After back and forth exchanges, he finally agreed, but acted like he was doing me a huge favor. I never dealt with them, again. I then read lots of other reports of people being treated like jerks from that guy. Never again. I’m quite surprised he’s still in business.
Josh
Avoid Chads! If you are lucky and the tools are ok then fine, if you have an issue customer service is horrible…