Earlier this month, I posted about how Bantam Tools is coming out with a new desktop CNC milling machine.
Bantam is now hailing their new product as the best affordable CNC machine (via ads on Google), and I must admit, it does have some appeal.
Advertisement
I’m not a fan of the high price, or that some features require an added paid subscription.
Their marketing hasn’t really done much to make the machine more compelling over the few weeks since the new machine was announced, but maybe the COVID-19 pandemic is limiting things.
I want to see more case studies, more examples of what it can do, and more “showing” than “telling.”
The idea of a “tell your friends, make money” referral program also seems odd for what’s supposed to be a professional tool. But, they’re not very in-your-face about it and so I suppose it’s okay.
Since its announcement, I have not taken any closer look at the new Bantam Tools desktop CNC milling machine, but I have researched some of their competition and also much higher-priced solutions. I have also thought about the motivation and direction of the company.
I have been thinking about the pricing quite a bit.
Advertisement
When buying a professional machining center, some manufacturers will nickle and dime you until the final price is so much higher than the base. This is true for a lot of commercial products.
I recently ordered an ergonomics computer chair, and the price shot up with every option. The same happens when you go car shopping.
I don’t like the idea of subscription model software, at least when it comes to something like tool-related hardware support. If you need to unlock features on professional test equipment, you pay a one-time fee.
Commercial and productivity software, and also some software that intertwines with hardware such as test equipment, sometime do require a subscription model rather than a one-time fee. Some companies offer you the option of paying a subscription or a lump sum for x-amount of free updates and included support.
Time will tell whether the new Bantam machine’s premium features will be worth the $199-per-year subscription fee. For commercial users, perhaps. But for individuals, inventors, or small businesses?
What about the $4000 sticker price and $3600 introductory price?
Bantam Tools’ PCB milling machine, their smaller and earlier electronics PCB-focused machine, is currently priced at $2499 for the basic model. The same machine with advanced accessory bundle is priced at $3299. These machines are currently out of stock, and their pages seem to have been buried a little on Bantam Tools’ website, perhaps temporarily or tied to being out of stock.
Years ago, when the Other Machine Co first released the Othermill, before Bre Pettis bought the company and changed the name, their cute little machine was priced at just $1500.
After talking to the brand representative at Maker Faire, I scribbled some notes onto the info card they were giving out. The machine was to be priced at $1500, feature replaceable parts, and would launch in January 2014. It would have an ER 11 collet and a vacuum adapter was said to be coming.
Fast forward to 2017, when Bre Pettis of Makerbot fame – or infamy depending on who you’re talking to – acquired the Other Machine Co, a press release at the time priced their Othermill Pro milling machine at $3100.
The price of the pro-version PCB milling machine had greatly increased from when it launched. Another article about the acquisition priced the basic machine at $2199.
While I was very strongly interested in the machine at first, I was never convinced it was a right fit for me, and once the PCB prototyping emphasis emerged, that was it for me. I followed some of the PCB milling machine’s progress over time, but lost personal interest – it was too high priced and I wasn’t convinced it could machine any metal parts outside of teeny tiny trinkets.
I also watched Makerbot 3D printing innovations over the years. Here is some of our past Makerbot coverage:
- Jan 2012: Supersized MakerBot Replicator 3D Printer with 2-Color Option
- Sept 2012: New Makerbot Replicator 2 with Higher Resolution and Larger Print Volume
- Jan 2014: New MakerBot Replicator 3D Printers for 2014
- Jul 2014: New MakerBot and Home Depot 3D Printing Retail Partnership
Makerbot was acquired by Stratasys in 2013. Fast forward to today, they have a couple of seemingly new machines aimed at educational and engineering customers. I say seemingly new because I stopped paying attention to the brand. The pricing of Makerbot 3D printers have greatly increased compared to those that made the brand popular with makers and hobbyists back in the day.
Bre Pettis left Makerbot prior to acquiring Other Machine Co.
How is Pettis steering Bantam Tools?, I wondered.
Yes, the price of Makerbot 3D printers greatly increased under Pettis’s leadership. But the pricing on this new Bantam desktop CNC milling machine doesn’t seem to be his influence.
If you want more machine, the price goes up. That’s true with 3D printers, CNC milling machines, and all manners of non-automated tools and equipment.
The $3600 promo price and $4000 full retail price on the Bantam Tools desktop milling machine does not seem out of line with how the PCB mill is priced, and the former Othermill increased in price from when it launched and before Pettis acquired the company.
After my post about the newly launching Bantam Tools desktop CNC milling machine, I received an email from what I could only describe as a competitor.
I won’t copy the entire email here, but here’s the start of it:
I came across a guide you did for the Bantam Desktop machines and we would like to see what kind of commission deal we can work out for a similar review.
Their machines are:
built like a true floor model CNC with cast tables, bases and columns, along with durable steel enclosures.
Their goal:
We’re looking to grow our hobbyist and manufacturing market on top of our already growing educational market.
I took a look at their $5500+ “turn key” CNC milling machine. They’re coming out with some accessories, and tout that the machines are manufactured in the USA.
But, despite a dramatic absence of clear imagery, I spotted some strong resemblances to imported milling machine components. I did some background research, and according to the internet community, this company converts a variant of off-the-shelf machines and builds enclosures for them. There is definitely a benefit to this approach.
I also rewatched Bantam Tools’ videos and introductory marketing materials.
Obviously they want to sell machines and make money, but the question is this – what are they going for? What is their goal?
Does Bre Pettis want to put a CNC machine in every home? Well, he can’t. Below a certain price level, you lose on power, accuracy, working volume, finish quality, and so forth. Is $4000 (after the introductory price) the best they can do? Doubtful.
Carbide 3D’s Nomad machine is less expensive. Inventables’ Carvey doesn’t seem to be sold online anymore (or at least I couldn’t find any current price or purchase links), but if I recall correctly it was priced in line with the $2500 Nomad.
There are other desktop machines on the market, with most being router-type setups equipped with woodworking router motors or spindles.
As I mentioned in the other post, I am especially interested in the desktop CNC market and have been watching developments for quite some time. Recent workshop cleanup activities turned up printouts for DIY CNC plans from 2009, when I thought there was a possibility I could build a small machine for myself, but ultimate the component costs pushed my plans back. It would be a decade before I could have a taste of hobbyist-grade CNC benchtop cutting.
The Bantam Tools desktop CNC machine is a potentially large market, but very few options are presently available. For serious machining, you need a very large machine capable of handling steel. A benchtop machine isn’t going to do that, or at least not one that weighs as little as the new Bantam machine.
Bantam says their new machine weighs 70 pounds, and it “doesn’t require an engine hoist to install.”
I’d like to buy a benchtop milling machine, and possibly a lathe. In addition to better machines costing more, they often require an investment and a large footprint, and that’s before any CNC conversion considerations. Personal CNC milling machines are even more expensive.
Benchtop CNC routers can be upgraded and tuned to handle aluminum, but there are a lot of limitations.
Meanwhile, the new Bantam desktop milling machine is said to specialize in cutting aluminum, and to me that does make it appealing. It’s not a “sure, you could cut aluminum (but not at the quality you might be looking for)” type of claim, but “we designed this for aluminum.”
Does it introduce a new standard for desktop CNC machines? In theory, I think it might provide a strong balance between size and capability, but that remains to be seen. They also look to offer to hold users’ hands a bit, which will be necessary for getting non-machinists to use it.
I bought a 3D printer a few years ago and sent it right back because the darned thing couldn’t even do the test print. Designers and other users won’t be drawn to this machine if it requires them to become an expert in its use before it can produce good results.
The main selling point so far is for engineers and designers to “prototype your product in-house” and to make it easier to iterate.
I think it might miss the mark on the type of machine I have been looking for over the years – a benchtop tool that can make functional parts out of aluminum and of sufficient size. For that I might need to budget the space and setup for a benchtop machine, no reasonably-priced small CNC seems to have come close. The benchtop manual mill one I have had my eye on costs much less than the new Bantam Tools desktop CNC, and that’s including a 3-axis DRO option and ballscrew conversion kit for potential CNC adaptation. But, it weighs 370 lbs and while it can work with 120V 20A circuits, variable speed motor drivers sometimes (often?) don’t work well with GFCIs. Such a machine might be an eventuality, but for larger parts.
For smaller parts and components, Bantam Tools’ new machine looks like it could be a dream for inventors, designers, or small companies.
Thinking of toolmakers specifically, smaller outfits usually send out for their machining needs. Larger companies might have in-house fabrication, but are designers and engineers able to disrupt production workflow to test different design ideas? Larger brands have equipment dedicated to prototyping needs, and skilled workers to operate them.
If this machine is well-designed, easy to use, and capable in its machining, it could very well gain traction. Personally, I’d like to see them offer more options – the personal CNC milling machine space can certainly use more competition and innovation!
Hopefully Bantam also has a roadmap of accessories planned out for the machine, time will tell. As an aside, I wonder if the subscription software model could be made more attractive by giving premium subscribers a discount on future add-ons or accessories, or savings on tooling or sample materials. Just a thought.
John
Stuart, Simple question – What do you want to build that requires a mini mill, metal lathe etc that you’ve drawn on a napkin or fully designed in software? Genuine interest here. That to me seems to be the most important part of the equation. You state you want a mill and lathe. Ok, but what do you want to make? Conversation about this specific branded tool is less relevant the way I see it.
I have a lot of tools, I mean a lot as a one man operation. I buy tools to complete a task or to improve the outcome of that task. In my experience, the tool doesn’t come first, the task of completion or an actual thing to build is the start.
While this Bantam mill is interesting, it only has purpose to a small fraction of a smaller fraction of a percent of humans at best. 3D printers have infinite more use than this does when it comes to general population or makers.
Stuart
I gave you a 1000 word answer, and then I got logged out as I tried to submit.
Here’s the tl;dr summary:
I enjoy using tools for personal projects, and improvising could be fun. But if I need customized parts made to fill a need or want, I want the parts made quickly and easily, and it’s almost never worth working with external machine shops to get there. The main professional need is in mounting brackets and fixtures. Adapting off-the-shelf parts sometimes requires my whole design to be reworked, or if adaptation and modifications aren’t possible, the idea is deemed too time and labor-intensive and shelved temporarily or permanently.
I might be getting a 3D printer this year, but I really just want a machine that’s easy to use and relatively trouble-free outside of regular maintenance. While some of my needs could possibly be satisfied with a 3D printer, most would require the strength of metal.
TonyT
And trying to get the strength of metal with an affordable 3D printer isn’t trivial.
(Of course, you CAN print metal with a 3D printer, but the filament is $465 for 3kg, and the sintering is >$50 per item)
Stuart
This is also one of the reasons I’ve been doing major cleaning and decluttering lately, I need to see how much space I can clear up. It’s about time for me to start making decisions.
There are a lot of tools on my wishlist, and space for maybe one of them.
fred
It used to be a bit less complicated – not so many options.
So I wish you well in your deliberations. Maybe some old conger’s experience might help.
When I started building a shop in the 1960’s – I started with a Radial arm saw (a mistake in retrospect) – lured into ads by Sears that it was an all purpose tool. The Unisaw (never have regretted buying it) came next – because the RAS was incapable of what I wanted it to do. Then a long-bed jointer – followed by a free standing drill press – then a band saw (later replaced by a newer one) – then a big old radial arm drill press (couldn’t pass up a good deal)- then a stationary compressor , a baghouse dust collection system – a shaper (later sold off and replaced by several iterations of router tables) , a benchtop mortiser (now – post domino machine mostly gathers dust rather than making any) a belt/disc sanding station then a wide belt stationary sander – later supplemented by a wide board surface planer, and finally two iterations of miter saws and jobsite table saws. I never got into turning – so no lathe. But the theme in my expansions was based on building a piece of furniture or cabinetry – and finding that I did not have the capability of doing something that I wanted to accomplish conveniently. I tried not to buy a new tool based on the speculation that I might find it to be useful. But many of the other lesser “gee whiz” sort of tools that I bought over the years – based on such speculation – usually proved to be disappointments – much like that first RAS.
Tools are a bit like many other things. They are only as good as the time you invest in learning how to use them and then being able to hone those learned skills into making something useful. Talent also comes into play- and the most capable tools in the world are no substitute for the talent needed to use them effectively. Some of that may be learned – but other parts come harder. I’ve resigned myself that I’ve become skilled enough to produce decent looking and functioning furniture, cabinetry and casework – if I mostly copy the designs and mimic the techniques of others. Producing a lowboy chest of drawers or elegant writing desk from scratch is not in my wheelhouse – but I’ve passably reproduced some that have pleased their recipients – or so I hope.
Now with CNC machining – starting to be possible for the home shop – the next generation of woodworking skills may need to add computer control and CAD. But even with automation – to get any benefit one will need to have the time to invest in its use.
Stuart
As always, thank you for your insights!
The problem is that I still change plans and projects more often than I’d like, based on what I can and cannot do.
Improvisations, rather than making exactly what I need, add up over time.
I can certainly come up with excuses to buy tools, and sometimes if I can’t improvise – oh well, I have other things on my to-do list.
My current plan is to clean, work on being much more efficient, and then hopefully my needs will arrange themselves into buckets of “I need that now or as soon as I can get a good deal,” “I’ll need that later,” and “I want that but can’t justify the immediate space for, so it’s best to forget about it.”
Stacey Jones
If you want a 3d printer I can heartily recommend an Ender 3 Pro. I managed to put it together with my son and it rocks. I’ve had it a bit over a year and just got the new one too. Severe wrath of wife. Especially after buying a Shopsmith and Dewalt Radial Arm Saw too. LOL!
fred
When I bought my nasty looking (cosmetically rusty/dirty/oily) – but very solid old Walker Turner radial drill press at auction I told my wife that it was coming. She did not get too wrathful until the truck and the riggers-machinery movers (paid more for their service than for the machine) arrived – and I heard some foul words describing it, its condition and my mental acuity. Once I had it cleaned-up and working – things calmed down. To be fair – I’ve never really used it to its full capabilities.
Peter Fox
For the price they are asking for essentially a toy you are 75% of the way to buying a PCNC 440 from Tormach.
Or of you are mainly constrained by space a SX2 mini mill with a CNC retrofit would likely be a better machine for less money.
If you actually want to make good parts you need a machine that has a bit of mass and rigidity.
A beefed up 3D printer with a spindle doesn’t seem like a good choice unless you only plan to work in soft easy to machine materials like plastics and possibly aluminum. And if you are only interested in using it on plastics a decent 3D printer probably makes more sense.
I don’t see these machines lasting long or producing parts at a reasonable price.
aerodawg
beat me to it while I was typing. I actually see the low weight as a detriment…
Travis S.
The trouble with desktop cnc is twofold ( I have an Emco PC Mill) :
One is that good tooling (carbide endmills, quality drills, collets, workholding) is not significantly cheaper than full sized machines (and that can cost multiples of the purchase cost of the machine).
Two is that getting proficient at CAD and CAM is a pretty steep learning curve, and staying current ( if you dont do it everyday in your day job) can be just as tough.
I love my CNC, and I use it almost every day- but the cost, time commitment, and skill level is much higher than a 3d printer.
I would really encourage anyone interested in a home cnc to check out Titans of CNC on youtube. They have an entire free learning program both CAD and CAM.
aerodawg
machining in general is just expensive. Especially for quality gear that you can actually make good parts in a repeatable manner.
Like you said, I’ve got probably $9k in the 440 between the machine, power draw bar and auto tool changer, and probably at least that much more in accessories.
Shoot, I’m making new fixture pallets for production of one of my items. I’ve got $600 just in materials for just one of the two components.
Stuart
Tormach’s reputation has given me pause, but there’s also the huge footprint and much higher price once you factor in things like a base and enclosure.
I’d like to be able to justify the space for a Precision Matthews PM-728VT, but it’s not exactly the type of tool you can easily move around. Something like that would be great for my bigger needs, either manually or CNC-converted.
The Bantam is too much money to only fulfill half my needs.
There are too few players in the “enclosed CNC that can machine aluminum on your benchtop without giving you a hernia” category.
aerodawg
Well that’s the rub. to really effectively machine metal, you need weight to dampen the vibration from the cutting forces. Weight roughly translates to size. The tougher the material you’re working with the more weight you need in general. As an example, my 440 will chew through aluminum without any problems. The 4140P I make most of my stuff with requires significantly more attention to tuning speeds and feeds to get a good result. There’s a fine line between an effective cut and burning up a $30 end mill prematurely….
Bantam looks to be getting around this somewhat with the 28k spindle. I’d guess they’re running all out constantly, pushing the feed to the limit at a very narrow cut. That strategy presents problems of it’s own in directional changes on the servos/steppers. A very narrow cut also has a much narrow feed range to keep from rubbing and burning up a tool.
aerodawg
Nothing there that my Tormach 440 doesn’t do better for not much more $. Basic 440 package is $5,390 and it’s literally everything you need to make a part except a vice and end mill. Significant upgrade path is also available to enable low rate production like I do. ATC, power draw bar, even a 4th axis available. 10k spindle so less than the Bantam but well within the working range for AL with small mills. Weight would be the only plus I see at 70lbs vs 600lbs but at the same time, weight is advantageous in milling for damping vibrations that screw with your surface finish….
Zach Dunham
Aerodawg, thanks for sharing! Those are awesome machines. One thing to note though for everyone is that the basic 440 package doesn’t include an enclosure, safety interlocks, a probe or software. Adding those four options, which would be more of an apples to apples comparison to the Bantam Tools machine, and the price on the Tormach increases to over $9K. Again, the 440 is an awesome machine and at 600lbs is in another class and the true price point reflects that.
Nathan
I think the price is still a touch high considering any real milling work I would want to custom make I would be shopping out to some internet machine shops. 4K would buy a lot of doodads.
new carrier for the bearing on my prop shaft – OE part near unobtainium – custom milled part from 6000 series AL off my drawings shipped in hand 200.
But I see the appeal. Would I have been able to make the piece on a CNC end mill – yes. what does one of those cost? Alot Do I have the space etc for one – no.
Meanwhile I see the appeal. They might should tout this more toward a wood work idea and plastics too. I mean yes you can 3d print a new gear for a something. Or in less time with better result you could mill and clean a delrin gear off this machine. If I was still in the RC car hobby I might strongly consider one.
you nailed it, it’s not for everyone. I don’t really think 3d printing is for everyone either but it has more uses perhaps. It is neat though.
Stuart
I’m sure it can handle wood and plastic as well. It’s marketed as being designed for cutting aluminum probably because there’s a dearth of aluminum-cutting options of this size.
I’m betting they’re going after the designers that send out for machine work, find out the part isn’t ideal, tweak, and then send out again. You can do that with a 3D printer, but there are lots of reasons why you might want to do that with metal and not plastic.
JoeM
I’m not sure I like where Non-Industrial CNC machines are going right now. I have a friend with a printing business, and he wants to expand into engraving/cutting dog tags. Problem is, he doesn’t want to learn CAD in any way, he just wants it to be as easy as a Cricket Vinyl Cutter, with an App you just import an image into, and it carves it out.
I am not a fan of this. The more we shrink down, and dumb down, the larger scale machines, the more we are likely to run head-on into a point where the confidence of the users exceeds the capcity of the machines. Without the Dumbing Down part, at least we’d require them to take some sort of training so they know, no, you can’t just drop a five pound chunk of brass onto that $200 machine you thought was a great deal. Not all machines are created equal, and if you’re serious about the business end, you’re going to have to be more than an everything-in-your-pocket type of user.
Of course you can set up the same materials, with the same saved template, and just hit “Go” for a few hours… But at some point, some where along the line, there has to be a point at which we put up a barrier and say “From this point forward, there’s no other option but to learn it.”
Not that I think we should completely stop the shrinking down process, and the home-manufacturing trend. I just think we need to increase the spread of education on these systems so that makers, such as myself, have to justify what they’ve got in mind, and make sure they don’t end up in debt over a simple misunderstanding over what, exactly, these machines are meant to do.
TonyT
Some comments:
Yes, MakerBot has pivoted away from the consumer market, into professional and education. For example, the Method X is $6,500 (currently on sale at MatterHackers for only $4550!), but IF you need its features (like excellent dimensional accuracy), it’s competitively priced.
Then again, so have many other survivors, such as Ultimaker (OK, you can still get the similar-to-our-Kickstarter Original+ for $995, but their newest printers, the S3/S5, start at $3850) and Form Labs (which IIRC has dropped support for their KS printer, the Form 1).
I’m also not a fan of subscriptions, but I have to give credit where it’s due: I managed to get my company to snag the 3 years of Fusion 360 for $670 deal, because I need Eagle PCB Premium. That’s an incredible deal. But my preference is for companies that provide options for buy or subscribe.
TonyT
Oh, and a final comment on nickle and dime-ing: it can really p*ss off your customers. There’s a couple PLC brands, such as brand O***, that I will not specify because they charge for every little thing.
Mike Mueller
For $4000 I’d get the Abdi Automation DMC3 Plus. (Standard version less expensive)
Abdiautomation.com
Proper linear rails instead of rails suitable for a 3D printer.
Tormach 1100 owner here myself, I have a love/hate relationship with my 1100, luckily the things I don’t care for I can upgrade or modify to suite.
James
The only problem with that company is they originally started under the sharrif dmc CNC. They didn’t make their Kickstarter but there was talk about a v2, then the guy disappeared and stopped responding.
Then this one shows up named the same and looks like an upgraded version of the original sharrif dmc1. Just seems kind of sketchy to me
Chris
Ummm I have a shariff dmc1 and he didnt disappear the crowdfund went private and he did deliver. I have seen the DMC3 and crowdfund hasnt been reached and they are in tampa florida and shariff is in canada. I was wondering myself if they are connected. I have communicated with shariff about 3 weeks ago. DMC stands for Desktop Mill Cnc . If you have proof the companies are the same would be interesting to see. I can see the similarities and I hope he creates a bunch of different desktop machining solutions.
O'Bunny
I have a personal hate on for vendors that use subscriptions for functions. I “own” a few items that I can no longer use, because they require a connection to a service that no longer exists, or because the item is no longer supported (in favor of a newer, more expensive item).
Frustrating as heck. So I support open-source and non-subscription stuff.
Stacey Jones
Exactly why I would never buy any vendor lock-in or subscription scam oriented product. IT Software & Hardware companies are rife with these shenanigans. I kinda liked the Apple watch until I discovered I also had to have a Apple phone. That company will eventually go down the tubes now that Jobs is gone. Such a shame, I started my career programming the original Macs, they were innovative back then. Today they’re more like a jewelry store. Ah well, please excuse the ranting detour off topic!
Kent
>> Time will tell whether the new Bantam machine’s premium features will be worth the $199-per-year subscription fee. For commercial users, perhaps. But for individuals, inventors, or small businesses?
I can’t imagine a scenario where this is used for a small business.
It’s simply not a serious machine.
The “anonymous competition” who almost has to be Tormach isn’t a great machine, but would be far superior to this on in every way except space.
The spindle speeds on this unit are so freaking high that you’ll never be able to machine anything seriously. No steel. Ever. Even aluminum will be a challenge at those speeds.
The Other Mill is a cool little machine, at a low price that honestly reflects its performance envelope. This is absurd pricing for a super limited machine.
Stuart
I wish it were Tormach.
Given what I read every time I research trends, current models, or new innovations, I don’t think I would buy a Tormach, But as a reviewer, I’d be open to the opportunity.
What rubbed me the wrong way is that the company that contacted me touted USA manufacturing, but I don’t see how that would be possible. Their enclosures looked well-made and nicely done, but my initially research made it clear there was a big hole where detailed product information and imagery should be, and left me extremely critical and without a clear-enough understanding.
With Bantam, I’ve been following their products for 6 years. That and my own personal needs being somewhat intersecting with this type of product fueled m interest. The other company that contacted me didn’t seem to have enough information for a strong assessment, and I didn’t see strong enough personal or reader interest for me to justify interviews or other time-intensive fact-gathering. I couldn’t find any user or owner feedback in any online forums or boards that I checked.
Tormach, well they’re very polarizing.
Bantam says they designed the new machining to take advantage of high speed machining techniques, and to be frank I don’t have enough experience to contradict their on-paper claims.
Kent
Thanks for the reply.
I have makerspace management experience, and am very familiar with the Tormach. It’s a mixed bag for sure.
I was friends of the OtherLab folks, and was familiar with the machine before it was on the market. I’m not in their demographic, as I have space for big tools, and I was able to buy a Bridgeport knockoff used, for less than an OtherMill. I also have the ability to unload 1,200 pound machines at my place. My situation is far from typical.
As for “high speed machining” Bantam is not using the word like other companies are. I’m not going to write a thesis here, but spindle speed is what causes heat. High spindle speed combined with shallow cuts makes even more heat. 10k spindle speeds just aren’t appropriate for aluminum without tiny endmills, massive rigid machines and flood coolant. Three things the Bantam doesn’t have.
If you had a drill press that ran at 10-20k rpm, would you use it to drill a hole in aluminum?
Zach Dunham
Hey Kent –
Sounds like you’re familiar with speeds and feeds stuff so I assume you’re familiar with this graph, but for other readers there is a really interesting phenomenon when machining aluminum where the cutting temperature actually drop off significantly if you move faster. One company that pushes this to an extreme is Datron. While we’re just a fraction of the weight and performance compared to those $100K+ machines, the strategy and underlying science is the same.
https://www.kellertechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/image.png
Bob
Like many others I’ve come to the conclusion that, although appealing due to their small footprint, mini mills and mini lathes and table top CNC’s lack mass and rigidity to machine larger parts in steel. I’m still still learning but am currently leaning towards a Bridgeport knee mill converted to CNC. I like the appeal of having a manual machine for “simple parts” and the ability to program complex parts and set it and forget it depending on my needs. My interests in cnc are mostly steel fabrication/repair for trucks, heavy equipment, cars, bikes etc.
I could see these smaller machines working for someone who just wants to make widgets out of softer materials like wood or plastic.
Bob
Like many others I’ve come to the conclusion that, although appealing due to their small footprint, mini mills and mini lathes and table top CNC’s lack mass and rigidity to machine larger parts in steel. I’m still still learning but am currently leaning towards a Bridgeport knee mill converted to CNC. I like the appeal of having a manual machine for “simple parts” and the ability to program complex parts for a set it and forget it experience depending on my needs. Also old bridgport parts are readily available and cheap. My interes in cnc is mostly steel fabrication/repair for trucks, heavy equipment, cars, bikes etc.
I could however see these smaller machines working for someone who just wants to make widgets out of softer materials like wood or plastic.
Zach Dunham
Hi Stuart! Zach here from Bantam Tools. Thanks for the second write up on the machine! We can’t wait to get it into people’s hands in just a few weeks. Since we launched, we’ve released almost a dozen videos on our social media channels which as you say, do the job of showing rather than telling. I thought readers would appreciate these and they’d also help clear up some of the confusion.
This video is a recent speeds and feeds test using single flute tooling from Datron. This tooling is designed to run at high RPMs and high feed rates. You’ll notice the material removal rate of .63,” and while this isn’t a large number compared to industrial machines, it is about 60 times faster than our PCB milling machine. To compare material removal rate on other machines you’ll need to know the feed rate, step over and step down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp2kU2ktWE
There’s a lot of confusion about our optional software subscription. It’s important to note that this is in fact optional. For just under $17/month the subscription unlocks additional features like advanced material probing that some, but not all, users will find useful and cost effective. However, the machine and free software are fully functional and include features like basic material probing and SVG support, which aren’t found on other machines in this class. This knotting tool was made exclusively with the basic free software package.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m957BzuMTXo&t=6s
We’d love to do a demo for you if you have more questions! Cheers.
Ray
Zach, I purchased my Bantam CNC machine July 31st 2020 and still haven’t received it.
Here it is November almost 4 months later
I have been getting updates on shipping and that’s good and all, but I have finished my design and want to get started making parts.
I’m totally new at this so I purchased the Fusion 360 software subscription due to watching your videos and seeing that it is what you recommended. I have put the time in to learn the software and find it very easy to use. It is just a year subscription so I want to be able to apply this software before it runs out. Will we be getting our machines before my subscription runs out?
I got scammed by a company in N. J. for $13,800 and I’m a bit hesitant right now wondering if I’m in the same boat with you.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not comparing him to you, but the constant months of waiting starts taking its toll on you if you know what I mean. I kept getting empty promises from him about wait times , eight weeks here and eight weeks there, and how his plate was full. I hope you understand my concern.
Stuart
I’ll forward your email along, in case they’re no long monitoring comments here.
Bantam Tools
Hey Ray!
Totally understand your concerns. The manufacturing and shipping delays are no fun for anyone. We apologize and thank you again for your patience. We have been committed to sending updates to all of our customers every two weeks to keep folks in the loop as well as offering 100% refunds to anyone who wants to cancel their order because of the delay. If you haven’t already done so, please shoot us an email at [email protected].
As far as the software subscription goes, don’t worry, your annual purchase won’t kick in until you actually receive the machine. And in the meantime, we’ve added a **ton** of new features.
We deeply apologize again about the delay. Please drop us a line so we can keep in touch and answer any specific questions you might have.
Ray
Well it is reassuring to know that you’re offering refunds.
Thanks!
Simon
It looks like the price has gone to the moon at 6.5k! Dead in the water at that price.
Ray
I got mine not too long after I posted. I use it almost every day for my small business.
I wished it had servos for one. It does everything that I need it to do as well, but I have to dramatically reduce the step down and step over to get it to run effectively without bogging down. All and all, I am happy with the purchase. I don’t like the subscription that I have to pay, but it is what it is. Any issues that I have had with the machine, Bantam has reached out to me on how to fix it. I was milling freehand with a router and noticed that it cut through the aluminum like butter without small stepdowns and it definitely showed me that the spindle on the machine should be beefed up… Anyway, I’m glad I got mine when they were cheaper. LoL.